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Russian Raises Money to Prove Moon Landings


Waspie_Dwarf

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Russian Space Enthusiast Raises 1 Million Rubles to Prove U.S. Moon Landing

When Vitaly Yegorov watched in awe as NASA’s Curiosity rover landed on Mars three years ago, he never could have imagined his fascination with space would one day lead to the genesis of his own satellite — and a 1 million ruble campaign to dispel a popular Russian conspiracy theory that the U.S. moon landings were faked.

Yegorov, 33, a Moscow-based PR specialist, proposed building a satellite to go into lunar orbit and take high-resolution photographs of the moon’s surface to document evidence of the landing of the Apollo 11 spacecraft, as well as the Luna and Lunokhod Soviet-era space missions.

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It's already been proven. This is just a waste of funny money.

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It's already been proven. This is just a waste of funny money.

I know that, you know that but a lot of people still don't accept it as fact.

If this mission gets off the ground it will remove one more argument that the truth deniers use, namely that the only organisation that has photographed NASA Apollo hardware on the Moon is NASA.

As far as I am concerned any additional evidence which shows just how monumentally moronic the hoax theory is can only be a good thing.

And as for being a waste of money, given that this is crowd sourced and so financed on a purely voluntary basis, why is that any of your concern?

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I know that, you know that but a lot of people still don't accept it as fact.

If this mission gets off the ground it will remove one more argument that the truth deniers use, namely that the only organisation that has photographed NASA Apollo hardware on the Moon is NASA.

I thought some other country did so as well...have to look that up.

As far as I am concerned any additional evidence which shows just how monumentally moronic the hoax theory is can only be a good thing.

Well, yeah, in this case, more is good.

And as for being a waste of money, given that this is crowd sourced and so financed on a purely voluntary basis, why is that any of your concern?

You were doing well until that last part. It's as much of a concern to me as you would think it would be to anyone else that reads it. If you don't want it to be anyone's concern, why post it? Why is it your concern that I am concerned about it?

As far as I'm concerned, raising that much money to prove something that's beyond doubt anyway is a waste of money. The ignorants that believe it is a hoax will still believe it no matter what, and they should just be ignored if they don't want to face the facts. There is enough evidence already to prove the Moon landings. Raise the money instead for something else more important.

Edited by Thorvir Hrothgaard
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I know that, you know that but a lot of people still don't accept it as fact.

If this mission gets off the ground it will remove one more argument that the truth deniers use, namely that the only organisation that has photographed NASA Apollo hardware on the Moon is NASA.

As far as I am concerned any additional evidence which shows just how monumentally moronic the hoax theory is can only be a good thing.

And as for being a waste of money, given that this is crowd sourced and so financed on a purely voluntary basis, why is that any of your concern?

The issue is, there is nothing that is conspiracy proof. If this mission happens, and it shows evidence of the U.S. landing, then there will be those that will come up with "facts" that prove that the verification mission was a hoax. Although it sometimes does irk me, I ignore people with their conspiracy theories. I am so much happier ignoring them then trying to convince them.

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Just happy to be doing something ?

`

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My only concern with this is that it seems to suggest there may be some credibility to the Apollo denial, when in fact the only folks who deny it are those who know little or nothing about space sciences and photography, have no research skills, and distrust the gubmint...

To fake the missions to the point where they would withstand scrutiny (in 1969, let alone NOW) would have been many times more difficult than to just go. They WENT. There is not a single piece of evidence of fakery - nothing the deniers brings up shows anything but their ignorance.

And as a good example of the sort of (in this case, deliberate) ignorance, I quote from the article:

Earlier this year Investigative Committee spokesman Vladimir Markin claimed an international investigation should be launched into the details of the Apollo mission.

..a Russian politician, trying to deflect attention from a number of issues.. not a good start..

In a column he wrote for pro-Kremlin {ahem..!} newspaper Izvestia in June, he explained that an investigation could help solve the mystery of the disappearance of film footage from the original moon landing in 1969,

There is no mystery about any missing film!!! He might be confusing this with some telemetry tapes that were overwritten, but those tapes had all of the data extracted from them - NO data was lost! In hindsight, we could have got a slightly better rendition of some of the imagery contained in the tapes using new technology, but that wasn't known at the time the tapes were re-used. There is no mystery or conspiracy there.

or it could explain where the nearly 400 kilograms of lunar rock reportedly obtained during several such missions between 1969 and 1972 have been spirited away to.

The lunar rock collection is well audited and it is dead easy to contact the curator and view the list of where they are, and where they have gone. Each year, 3-400 samples of the ~382 kilograms of rock and regolith (lunar dirt) the Apollo astronauts brought back are sent out, to pretty much any credible person or agency that asks and has a good reason - some of them even go to schools for students to look at and touch.. Sure, some of the rocks and specimens were bought or given out as gifts or donations to museums etc, and may have then been lost by/stolen from them, but AGAIN, there is no conspiracy here.

That guy is just a flat out liar....

Edited by ChrLzs
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I know that, you know that but a lot of people still don't accept it as fact.

If this mission gets off the ground it will remove one more argument that the truth deniers use, namely that the only organisation that has photographed NASA Apollo hardware on the Moon is NASA.

As far as I am concerned any additional evidence which shows just how monumentally moronic the hoax theory is can only be a good thing.

And as for being a waste of money, given that this is crowd sourced and so financed on a purely voluntary basis, why is that any of your concern?

The deniers will simply say that he was paid off; by NASA, the US gubmint, by pro-western sympathizers within Russia... pick your poison.

I applaud the effort. I'm just afraid that it won't change a single deniers belief.

Edited by Likely Guy
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I thought some other country did so as well...have to look that up.

Yes, there have been (and will be many more) other verifications, but there is a bit of a problem - to get an image that would, say, show the shape of the LM clearly, you need either a hugely powerful (and steady) telescope, or to be very low in lunar orbit, or some combination of those... To put it into context, even the Hubble Space Telescope using its absolute highest magnification, would still need to be more than TEN times more powerful..

To date, the only spacecraft to have got close enough with sufficient magnification lenses, is NASA's own LRO. While it continues its mission to map the Moon in high resolution, it has taken lots of images showing the landing sites with sufficient clarity to easily show the obvious shape of the LM descent stage, and even almost-but-not-quite let us see if the flags are still hanging or if they have disintegrated (they weren't really built to last!). Here's a link..

Other spacecraft such as India's Chandrayaan and Japan's Kaguya / Selene, have captured images that show 'tracks' and small smudges that correspond exactly to the landing sites - BEFORE NASA got back there with the LRO. The images match perfectly to the amazing newer LRO images (check out the video there..), which is a pretty good verification.. The Selene ones also included a superb 3D verification of Apollo landscape images. These would simply not have been possible unless they got there (although I'm sure conspiracy theorists will squirm and twist their way to new silliness to try to explain it..).

You sometimes can't reason people out of a belief if they never used reason to get into that belief..

Edited by ChrLzs
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For these people you'd have to prove the earth is round.

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A lot of people are saying its a waste of money and it is already proven, but I say its a great idea.

Firstly, as a Russian scheme it leads an independent proof of it away from NASA's controlling filter of the media.

But secondly, how many independently owned and controlled satellites are circling the moon or planets that again, are not controlled by NASA? This guy has an opportunity (and I suspect will soon find the funds) to send a satellite that can take high resolution images of not only the landing site, but all other areas of interest to conspiracy theorists and UFO watchers. There are reports of Pyramids, unusual lights and patterns on the moon and so on..... All that we have to wait for NASA to discover the truth over and then wonder whether we are being given a heavily edited version of findings. Independent research like this could put to bed a whole host of conspiracy theories and could give the common man a chance to play Indiana Jones and dig away at all these great moon mysteries without a government involvement!

Do I believe the moon landings are real, yes! But would it be fascinating for someone other than NASA to photograph and prove it, and all other strange anomalies on the moon.... hell yes!

At the end of the day 20-odd years ago we used to get our news from a news channel that would report events from witness accounts and rarely get to see things happen. Roll on 20 years to viewer footage capturing events live as they happen and giving us whole new, lifelike perspectives on things we get independent views and judgement that can be seen with our own eyes. Compare the "stories" of the Titanic disaster which was never recorded to "9/11" which was recorded from multiple angles and multiple images and videos by everyday amateurs and you can see the affect of independent recorded viewpoints compared to one single source commenting. And this is the same here. With independent satellites doing their own missions and own footage we are seeing multiple views and footage that can be properly judged rather than one single source who controls all information.

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Exopaul, I havta ask....

Q.1 Do you agree that there is nothing stopping ANY other country or ANY public or private organisation from sending up high resolution imaging spacecraft? It seems clear from your post that you do, but I'd just like you to clarify...

Q.2 Did you check the links I gave above, where other countries have ALREADY verified, even if at only a modest level, the NASA imagery?

Q.3 Are you aware that a virtually all of the data/images sent back by spacecraft (be they NASA, ESA, whatever) are NOT encrypted and can be intercepted by anyone/any country with a big enough antenna? (And obviously if the data is coming back from a lunar orbiter, it is not exactly difficult to work out which direction to point that antenna....)

Q.4 Are you aware that NASA farms out much of its data capture, collection and initial analysis to universities and other pure research organisations?

Given all that, how on earth or in space could NASA control the media? I mean, NASA *knows* that others can check on them, and it makes ZERO sense that they would try to cheat as they will, inevitably, be found out... Indeed, they would have been busted and exposed ALREADY, over and over again. Sure, NASA scientists (just as scientists from ESA and JAXA etc) get first bite at the data and interpretation so there may be brief embargoes on some data, but they simply could not possibly suppress discoveries as you seem to be implying.

Edited by ChrLzs
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I think its a waste of money too because no amount of proof is going to get a hard core denier to change their minds. They'll just say NASA paid them off or some such BS. But if they have fun doing this more power to them.

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I think its a waste of money too because no amount of proof is going to get a hard core denier to change their minds.

I think we all agree that no amount of further evidence is going to change the mind of Hardcoredeniers like turbo******* or the latest crop over at Apollohoax (who are virtually indistinguishable from rather disgustingly dishonest trolls anyway).

However, as i'm not exactly familiar with the situation in Russia, perhaps there are still some casual, honest doubters over there, that could be convinced by russian pictures?

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I think a lot of people are going to wonder where their hard earned rubles are a few years from now when Vitaly is no where to be found. :whistle:

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This may be a dumb question, but don't we have powerful enough telescopes that can get clear shots of any of the landing areas>

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Perhaps the people who are crowd funding the mission are hoping it will prove Apollo didn't go to the Moon! If so, they are wasting their money. It makes much more sense to waste money on beer.

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This can be used to debunk a few conspircy theories. Like the Flat Earthers can see that the Earth IS round...We can see if there REALLY are alien bases on the dark side of the Moon...We can see if the ISS really IS in space...yea, I know...people actually dont believe the Earth is round or the ISS is real.

Edited by djfxw
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Didn't the Chinese already scan the Luna surface a few years ago? Obviously nothing was out of place or they would have said something.

Edited by Finity
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This may be a dumb question, but don't we have powerful enough telescopes that can get clear shots of any of the landing areas>

Hmm. Well, it would have been better if you read my post here, where I said and now repeat:

...to get an image that would, say, show the shape of the LM clearly, you need either a hugely powerful (and steady) telescope, or to be very low in lunar orbit, or some combination of those... To put it into context, even the Hubble Space Telescope using its absolute highest magnification, would still need to be more than TEN times more powerful..

To date, the only spacecraft to have got close enough with sufficient magnification lenses, is NASA's own LRO. While it continues its mission to map the Moon in high resolution, it has taken lots of images showing the landing sites with sufficient clarity to easily show the obvious shape of the LM descent stage, and even almost-but-not-quite let us see if the flags are still hanging or if they have disintegrated (they weren't really built to last!). Here's a link..

Other spacecraft such as India's Chandrayaan and Japan's Kaguya / Selene, have captured images that show 'tracks' and small smudges that correspond exactly to the landing sites - BEFORE NASA got back there with the LRO. The images match perfectly to the amazing newer LRO images (check out the video there..), which is a pretty good verification.. The Selene ones also included a superb 3D verification of Apollo landscape images. These would simply not have been possible unless they got there (although I'm sure conspiracy theorists will squirm and twist their way to new silliness to try to explain it..).

You sometimes can't reason people out of a belief if they never used reason to get into that belief..

There is one telescope on Earth (the VLT) that is supposedly theoretically *just* capable of resolving Apollo hardware, but *only* if the Sun is at the correct angle and throwing a long shadow! It is complicated by the fact that this telescope is not an *optical* scope, so you would be looking at an image created from non-optical wavelengths and just seeing a small fuzzed smudge... Plus, it is not designed for lunar use, so as far as I am aware they haven't tried to do it.

The *only* sensible way to image the Apollo historical sites is to have a spacecraft in close lunar orbit, which is where the LRO fits the bill.

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Hey, he's a Russian that doesn't believe the conspiracy theories nor his own country's propaganda.

Thumbs up to you my ruskie brother.

:tu:

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I think a lot of people are going to wonder where their hard earned rubles are a few years from now when Vitaly is no where to be found. :whistle:

I'm worried that this will be the case.

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This may be a dumb question, but don't we have powerful enough telescopes that can get clear shots of any of the landing areas>

The primary property of advanced telescopes is the ability to collect very low amounts of photons and not the ability

to zoom in. :yes:

Edited by toast
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The primary property of advanced telescopes is the ability to collect very low amounts of photons and not the ability

to zoom in. :yes:

In other words, flag is too damn small and on a brightly lit surface?

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well considering all the facts about the moon landing, it seems this guy is wasting his money. Pretty much everything that they say about how the moon landings are fake has been disproven.

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