Guns Save Lives (Part 2)

[F3SS]

It has been brought to my attention that the original thread has grown too large and that a new one should be started for technical purposes.

For the original premise and intent please see the op of the original thread at http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=244653&hl=

And to keep the flow I have decided to insert the last couple of posts from the original below. Thank you. Post on!

[F3SS]

Mexico's Gun Supply and the 90 Percent Myth

This means that the 87 percent figure relates to the number of weapons submitted by the Mexican government to the ATF that could be successfully traced and not from the total number of weapons seized by Mexican authorities or even from the total number of weapons submitted to the ATF for tracing. In fact, the 3,480 guns positively traced to the United States equals less than 12 percent of the total arms seized in Mexico in 2008 and less than 48 percent of all those submitted by the Mexican government to the ATF for tracing. This means that almost 90 percent of the guns seized in Mexico in 2008 were not traced back to the United States.

In recent years the cartels, especially their enforcer groups such as Los Zetas, Gente Nueva and La Linea, have been increasingly using military weaponry instead of sporting arms. A close examination of the arms seized from the enforcer groups and their training camps clearly demonstrates this trend toward military ordnance, including many weapons not readily available in the United States. Some of these seizures have included M60 machine guns and hundreds of 40 mm grenades obtained from the military arsenals of countries like Guatemala.

The Myth of 90 Percent: Only a Small Fraction of Guns in Mexico Come From U.S.

So, if not from the U.S., where do they come from? There are a variety of sources:

-- The Black Market. Mexico is a virtual arms bazaar, with fragmentation grenades from South Korea, AK-47s from China, and shoulder-fired rocket launchers from Spain, Israel and former Soviet bloc manufacturers.

-- Russian crime organizations. Interpol says Russian Mafia groups such as Poldolskaya and Moscow-based Solntsevskaya are actively trafficking drugs and arms in Mexico.

- South America. During the late 1990s, the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC) established a clandestine arms smuggling and drug trafficking partnership with the Tijuana cartel, according to the Federal Research Division report from the Library of Congress.

-- Asia. According to a 2006 Amnesty International Report, China has provided arms to countries in Asia, Africa and Latin America. Chinese assault weapons and Korean explosives have been recovered in Mexico.

-- The Mexican Army. More than 150,000 soldiers deserted in the last six years, according to Mexican Congressman Robert Badillo. Many took their weapons with them, including the standard issue M-16 assault rifle made in Belgium.

-- Guatemala. U.S. intelligence agencies say traffickers move immigrants, stolen cars, guns and drugs, including most of America's cocaine, along the porous Mexican-Guatemalan border. On March 27, La Hora, a Guatemalan newspaper, reported that police seized 500 grenades and a load of AK-47s on the border. Police say the cache was transported by a Mexican drug cartel operating out of Ixcan, a border town.

we can play this game all day long. guns from the usa are flowing into mexico and they are coming from legal sources in the USA. http://www.eldailypost.com/news/2015/07/legal-u-s-gun-runners-are-arming-mexicos-cartels/

http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/26/us/mexico-crime-guns/

and pro gun activists can distort stats but it does not change what is happening.

[+ouija ouija]

or .................. you could have just let it go

[F3SS]

Would've, could've, didn't.

[DieChecker]

Thanks F3SS! Keep the links to articles where people defend themselves coming!

:gun:

[+OverSword]

or .................. you could have just let it go

It was Saru not Fess that archived the thread.

[+ouija ouija]

Ignore me. I was just talking amongst myselves.

[Thorvir]

Ignore me. I was just talking amongst myselves.

Really? What did they all have to say to all of you?

[Yamato]

On a Scale of 1 to 10,

where a 1 is "I'm so scared. Ban all guns immediately!"

and a 10 is:

http://esq.h-cdn.co/...x-jones-gun.jpg

I'm a solid 7

A gun never took or saved a life. People did. And in the case of accidents it's the same thing. The gun didn't have an accident. A person did.

[+ouija ouija]

Really? What did they all have to say to all of you?

Well I don't think that's any of your business, is it?

[spartan max2]

The other one almost made it too 200 pages

[Shayde]

Again, forgive the next bit as it comes from a non American type individual...

If the idea of open carry is to act as a deterent to prevent a shooting taking place, and there's a push to get colleges to allow this, might there not be a way to allow a deterent that would fit this without the spread of a lot of guns? To wit:

If the Second Amendment is clear that carrying a weapon is only to be allowed if the armed person is part of a militia, then allow the following. A set of students who have been vetted and cleared by the police and psychologists are to go armed. This group will form a college militia unit, who's job it is to openly carry weapons, and who will react if a shooting occurs. Say one or two per class. But in order to make things less clear to any threat that may enter a place of learning, allow the remaining student body to openly carry replica firearms as well. That way the "bad guy with a gun" won't know which armed student is a real militia member. Yes, there is a big problem with that, as no doubt some prat would try and carry a real gun anyway, and if a shooting occurs and some prat is waving around a dummy firearm he/ she is liable to get shot by the responding safe shooters. But this would somewhat fit that mindset of those who seem to want the entire population tooled up.

[spartan max2]

Again, forgive the next bit as it comes from a non American type individual...

If the idea of open carry is to act as a deterent to prevent a shooting taking place, and there's a push to get colleges to allow this, might there not be a way to allow a deterent that would fit this without the spread of a lot of guns? To wit:

If the Second Amendment is clear that carrying a weapon is only to be allowed if the armed person is part of a militia, then allow the following. A set of students who have been vetted and cleared by the police and psychologists are to go armed. This group will form a college militia unit, who's job it is to openly carry weapons, and who will react if a shooting occurs. Say one or two per class. But in order to make things less clear to any threat that may enter a place of learning, allow the remaining student body to openly carry replica firearms as well. That way the "bad guy with a gun" won't know which armed student is a real militia member. Yes, there is a big problem with that, as no doubt some prat would try and carry a real gun anyway, and if a shooting occurs and some prat is waving around a dummy firearm he/ she is liable to get shot by the responding safe shooters. But this would somewhat fit that mindset of those who seem to want the entire population tooled up.

The response is going to be different depending on who you ask but for me concealed carry being a detriment isn't the main purpose. I see it as everyone should have the right and ability to maintain their own safety. No matter how much security forces you create they will not be everywhere. I feel that you and me and an individual should not be restricted from making ourselves safe.

I am not totally against the idea of making people licensed to own firearms, my only concern is that people would use the licensed to just keep making it more and more restrictive tell no one can own one, like a slippery slope. You may not want a total ban but there are people and politicians who do

[Thorvir]

Well I don't think that's any of your business, is it?

Well, congrats on missing your chance for some levity, which is needed in a thread like this from time to time.

[Sweetpumper]

If the idea of open carry is to act as a deterent to prevent a shooting taking place, and there's a push to get colleges to allow this

California will be the next victim of a campus shooting.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/10/11/gov-jerry-brown-signs-bill-banning-concealed-guns-from-california-schools/

[Gunn]

Again, forgive the next bit as it comes from a non American type individual...

If the idea of open carry is to act as a deterent to prevent a shooting taking place, and there's a push to get colleges to allow this, might there not be a way to allow a deterent that would fit this without the spread of a lot of guns? To wit:

If the Second Amendment is clear that carrying a weapon is only to be allowed if the armed person is part of a militia, then allow the following. A set of students who have been vetted and cleared by the police and psychologists are to go armed. This group will form a college militia unit, who's job it is to openly carry weapons, and who will react if a shooting occurs. Say one or two per class. But in order to make things less clear to any threat that may enter a place of learning, allow the remaining student body to openly carry replica firearms as well. That way the "bad guy with a gun" won't know which armed student is a real militia member. Yes, there is a big problem with that, as no doubt some prat would try and carry a real gun anyway, and if a shooting occurs and some prat is waving around a dummy firearm he/ she is liable to get shot by the responding safe shooters. But this would somewhat fit that mindset of those who seem to want the entire population tooled up.

Meh. No need for all of that. Armed officers doing security patrols on campus would suffice. The mental unstable don't walk into police stations and start shooting because they'd likely get hit first, so they pick locations with unarmed people so they can take down with them as many as they can.

[Yamato]

Again, it's not the aircraft carriers, tanks, bombers, missiles, guns and bullets. It's the government. What to call a liberal who's so prejudiced that they appeal to said government to control our guns?

How asleep does a statist have to be not to see how irresponsible the government is with guns across our own borders? Oh but those are the magic lines! Over here, and over there! When the gun detractors stop living in a bubble reality and stop demonstrating a blind faith in government that would make Jesus blush, then I'll take them seriously and consider their arguments that will hopefully by then be free of the hypocrisy.

[Sweetpumper]

A Pennsylvania man used his concealed firearm to stop an attempted kidnapping near the northeastern town of Plymouth last monday.

An unidentified man who is now in police custody assaulted a local woman Katherine DeLuca outside a Quick & EZ Stop in Plymouth, Pennsylvania and tried to steal her car. However, when she refused to give up her car the man then ran into the road and tried to steal another woman’s car. That car had two children in the back seat and the woman driving immediately began yelling for help as she was thrown to the ground.

“She was yelling, ‘My kids are in the car, my kids are in the car,’” DeLuca told the Times Leader.

It was at that point a local man named Rob Ragukus drew his concealed handgun and interviened. “I have a license to carry this gun, don’t move,” he reportedly said. Ragukus was able to hold the man at gun point until police arrived. No gunshots or serious injuries were reported from the incident.

http://www.infowars.com/concealed-carrier-stops-kidnapping-attempt/

[+OverSword]

Does fear or facts drive gun control laws?

http://youtu.be/4o6yhv6-3LQ

[Michelle]

I know people are eager to write off most of these reports because of the source. Come on, Infowars and The Blaze? There was a time, years ago, when I would have said the same. If you will notice, they do have a link to the original, local news where the event occured. If not, a short search is all that is needed.

[Sweetpumper]

Not to mention, lefty sites ignore them like the plague.

[Gunn]

He/She is right! You can really screw someone over with those.

[Sweetpumper]

The flat-head hollow points work the best.

[.ZZ.]

Not to mention, lefty sites ignore them like the plague.

Dumb people indeed...

[F3SS]

I often empty my pockets and find the same kinds of bullets. They show up in my laundry a lot too.

That Phillips head is a #3. It looks like your common #2 assault driver tip to the untrained eye but it serves a specialty purpose and has no business on the streets where your kids live.