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Researchers discovered alien megastructure?

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monai094

'I looked over the 'Oblate Star' paper yesterday. The most serious problem with it appears to be this: It requires that, in one case, a planet orbiting 'Tabby's Star' blot out 20 percent of its light. It's been found that the largest planets obscure only about one percent of the their star's brightness.

We have sound physical and observational reasons for believing that planets much larger than this will not be found. The mass of such a body would cause it to be denser, but not larger, due to the pull of gravity.

How much dust should be released when comets are destroyed? We have a good idea of this, from our studies of comet composition. Our basic understanding of how star systems form seems to indicate that dust should figure in the composition of comets, wherever they're found.

We also understand how to detect dust, due to its absorption and scattering of light, favoring the infra-red. The observation of dust in distant star system has been possible for a number of years.

Agree with all.but what i need to do that ???

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bison

Welcome to the forum, monai094. What is needed to detect dust in another solar system, especially one as distant as 'Tabby's Star' is a quite large telescope. The infrared range is generally favored for this sort of work, as the dust appears relatively bright with respect to the star.

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DONTEATUS

My money is its just Space Stuff ! Were all Made of it ! :tu:

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bison

So are planets, asteroids, and such, that could be reworked into a Dyson swarm, given a sufficiently advanced technology! :yes:

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DONTEATUS

Gotta Love that "given" PART. :tu:

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bison

Well, they might have been given it by others, or have given it to themselves by their own efforts.

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Ryinrea

A brown dwarf enters my head, but that of course would have an infrared signature, which is probably why no one has mentioned it.

Whatever it is, it is a rare phenomenon, so it may involve some new type of object.

Yeah that entered my head as well to explain the anolmly but I read about the infrared not reading it so that dropped it out of my list of things this thing could be. I am trying my best to rule out the possibility of it being a Dyson sphere for the most part or a structure of some short. Edited by Ryinrea
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bison

Quite right! It must be possible, under some conceivable circumstances, for the 'megastructures' scenario for Tabby's Star to be shown to be incorrect, if it is to be a valid scientific possibility.

The likeliest way for this to happen is for a spectral study of the star to reveal the presence of fine debris, rather than large solid objects, while the star is undergoing dimming. This is exactly what a number of observers are poised to do right now, given the opportunity to observe another substantial dimming of this star.

I tend to suspect that the destruction of comets, sufficient to dim the star KIC 8462852 by up to 22 percent with their debris, should leave a cloud of dust that could be observed at all times, not just when a major dimming event occurred.

Edited by bison

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bison

When they speak about other searches of this star, at the end of the scientific paper, they are probably referring to the expected work of other observers, at other radio telescopes, rather than any plans to do more monitoring at the Allen Telescope Array. They planned to end their observations at the end of October, which is about what they did.

I have looked at the chart of daily star targets of the ATA for some time. There have been no further observations of KIC 846 2852, since Oct. 30th.

A number of recent news media articles noted the SETI Institute's inability to detect an ETI signal from this star. On this basis, they claimed that the megastructure or Dyson swarm explanation for the dimming of the star had be ruled out.

That seems premature. From the beginning, it was admitted that the substantial distance of the star, and the ATA's technical limitations made their attempt a very long shot. Other searches, with much larger radio telescopes, contemplated for early in 2016 stand a much better chance of success.

All of this assumes that an advanced civilization would continue to find some uses for high power radio waves. While this is possible, we have no way of knowing, at this time, if this is the case.

The dimming of 'Tabby's star' is a persisting mystery. Even the most plausible natural explanations are less that wholly satisfactory. It seems wise to keep open an intriguing possibility: That a civilization nearly 1500 light years away has made immense structures in orbit of its star.

Edited by bison

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Sir Wearer of Hats

If light travels faster than sound, could it be that over the distances were tslking about, the signals from their civilisation haven't reached us yet but the light from their civilisation has?

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Harte

All of this assumes that an advanced civilization would continue to find some uses for high power radio waves.

You mean it assumes they used radio 1500 years ago.

Harte

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Noteverythingisaconspiracy

If light travels faster than sound, could it be that over the distances were tslking about, the signals from their civilisation haven't reached us yet but the light from their civilisation has?

Are they trying to shout to us ? :rolleyes:

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Merc14

If light travels faster than sound, could it be that over the distances were tslking about, the signals from their civilisation haven't reached us yet but the light from their civilisation has?

This would probably be a better question over in Waspie's forum but I don't think that NASA is looking for communication but more for an electromagnetic signature of what a Dyson Sphere/Construct would be generating

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antonT

Considering that what we are seeing happened 1.500 light years ago which would be soon after the birth of Christ and considering that 99% of species become extinct sooner or later, I doubt if any advanced civilisation would be in existence now. Considering that humans progressed from primate to astronaught in a blinking of an eye in astronomical terms, Surely any advanced civilisation would have made themselves more obvious by now?

Edited by antonT

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Frank Merton

Seti hasn't detected any unusual signals with their Allen Telescope Array so far. http://earthsky.org/...7c331-394012957

It is so far away that for Seti to detect a signal it would take a huge broadcast aimed directly at us. We aren't going to detect local signal that way.

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Frank Merton

If light travels faster than sound, could it be that over the distances were tslking about, the signals from their civilisation haven't reached us yet but the light from their civilisation has?

Um some confusion here. There will be no sound from anything in space -- it travels by air and there ain't no air out there. Any signal sent to us would be by radio or microwave, and they travel at the same speed as visible light (they are all just different wavelengths of electromagnetic radiation).

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Frank Merton

Considering that what we are seeing happened 1.500 light years ago which would be soon after the birth of Christ and considering that 99% of species become extinct sooner or later, I doubt if any advanced civilisation would be in existence now. Considering that humans progressed from primate to astronaught in a blinking of an eye in astronomical terms, Surely any advanced civilisation would have made themselves more obvious by now?

On the earth typical species live several billion years, so we would expect them to still be around. You seem to assume they might travel faster than light, but if they are really advanced then they would be still now, but it would take ages and ages for them to get here.

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antonT

On the earth typical species live several billion years, so we would expect them to still be around. You seem to assume they might travel faster than light, but if they are really advanced then they would be still now, but it would take ages and ages for them to get here.

OK say that they were really advanced 1500 light years ago, they should be massively advanced by now when one takes into consideration the speed of human scientific progress just these last 200 years on Earth. Does not the fact that we havent heard or seen anything of them in the last 1500 years suggest that us humans will still be similarly relatively unadvanced in terms of intergalactic communication at a similar length of time in the future?

I would be very disappointed if we couldn't send messages etc superluminally to other galaxies by some quantum means perhaps in 1500 years time.

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Merc14

OK say that they were really advanced 1500 light years ago, they should be massively advanced by now when one takes into consideration the speed of human scientific progress just these last 200 years on Earth. Does not the fact that we havent heard or seen anything of them in the last 1500 years suggest that us humans will still be similarly relatively unadvanced in terms of intergalactic communication at a similar length of time in the future?

I would be very disappointed if we couldn't send messages etc superluminally to other galaxies by some quantum means perhaps in 1500 years time.

What makes you think we would know if they were sending such signals?

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antonT

What makes you think we would know if they were sending such signals?

Well, us humans got radio very quickly so an advanced civilization such as theirs would have gotten such a basic system early in their development. If they are sending out signals via quantum means now, it seems very unlikely that they did not try radio first of all. They would perhaps broadcast using many methods.

So, as we are now getting light from this planet why are we not getting radio signals as well??

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toast

So, as we are now getting light from this planet why are we not getting radio signals as well??

a.) What planet?

b.) What light?

c.) Radio signals require a sender. If there is no sender, there are no radio signals.

Edited by toast
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Merc14

Well, us humans got radio very quickly so an advanced civilization such as theirs would have gotten such a basic system early in their development. If they are sending out signals via quantum means now, it seems very unlikely that they did not try radio first of all. They would perhaps broadcast using many methods.

So, as we are now getting light from this planet why are we not getting radio signals as well??

Wouldn't their age of radio have ended millions of years ago, just as ours is now fading away, so that any radio signals would've passed our planet approximately when the dinosaurs were roaming its surface? Also, what they would see of our planet right now is roughly our 6th century so not a whole lot of technology going on, hence, why send any kind of signal? If they are communicating using something like quantum mechanics then we wouldn't have any way of knowing they were saying anything.

@toast: I think this is a "If there were a civilization a that location, then..." type of conversation.

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Jacques Terreur

would they necessarily have to send a targeted signal towards us? Or would a technically advanced civilization not spread radio signals kind of randomly into space?

if there were such signals, they must have sent them out really a long time ago, though... this link puts stuff in perspective:

http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-lakdawalla/2012/3390.html

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Galactic Goatman

Maybe it's a damaged Sphere, accounting for the various readings? Perhaps it is cracked and in the process of being repaired.

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