Skeptic offers $1M in paranormal challenge

[aquatus1]

This bet has nothing to do with confirming or denying paranormal "science". The challenge is quite clear. Any individual who claims to be able to perform a superhuman or paranatural phenomenon is welcome to attempt to do so in front of people whose job it is to look at the phenomenon for deception or delusion. The rules are agreed on before hand, and if the participant does not believe he is capable of performing under the conditions required, the challenge does not go through. This does not mean the person has no powers, however it does mean that a group of people with training in research and methodology do not believe the phenomenon can occur without eliminating some suspected variables. In other word, the cause of the phenomenon could have been other than the person's alleged powers.

[Josiah]

This bet has nothing to do with confirming or denying paranormal "science".  The challenge is quite clear.  Any individual who claims to be able to perform a superhuman or paranatural phenomenon is welcome to attempt to do so in front of people whose job it is to look at the phenomenon for deception or delusion.  The rules are agreed on before hand, and if the participant does not believe he is capable of performing under the conditions required, the challenge does not go through.  This does not mean the person has no powers, however it does mean that a group of people with training in research and methodology do not believe the phenomenon can occur without eliminating some suspected variables.  In other word, the cause of the phenomenon could have been other than the person's alleged powers.

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Like I said ... it has already been proven, not once but many times.

From sub - atomic particulate matter, i.e: "String - Theory", to a Russian telekinetic moving a box of matches, under a glass dome in the 1960's with only his mind, to "Ingo Swann" using remote - viewing to describe a scene in detail, several hundred miles away, to "Daniel Douglas Holme", around the turn of the century, playing an accordion inside a wire cage from across the room with his back turned toward it and dozens of witnesses to account for it and document it, to "Edgar Cayce" correctly diagnosing lietrally thousands of people with chronic -illness over a number of years, back in the 1940's, to a young Russian girl from the Former Soviet Union, recently featured at UNEX, who has a similar capability to the late "EdgarCayce", and also correctly diagnosis illness and internal - organs, with defects (via paranormal means ... tested under laboratory conditions), ), to the late "Robert A. Monroe" (Journeys Out Of The Body) projecting his consciousness under a laboratory setting, to accurately describe what was hapenning in an adjoing room and what apparel the people were wearing in said room.

It's been done.

It's been tested.

The only difference is, there was no million bucks up for grabs, then.

If "String - Theory", can prove at least eleven, different, parallel - dimensions or universes, which compliment our own physical Earth reality and be documented by some of the most brilliant, scientific minds of this era, don't tell me that: "This bet has nothing to do with confirming or denying paranormal "science".

This is truly the nature of the beast.

A paranormal occurance could literally be witnessed a thousand different skeptics, at the saame time and they would produce a thousand diferent reasons as to why it never happened.

Forget the million ... ain't gonna' happen.

[aquatus1]

There was also no methodology in the testing procedures either. With no way to determine that several possible factors were not present, there is no way to eliminate those natural factors from being responsible for the phenomena. And if you think Randi's money is the first reward to be offered for this type of thing, you are quite mistaken. Before Randi, even before Houdini, there were plenty of offers for those who could prove that they possessed strange and mystical abilities. The difference is that it is harder to fool the modern scientist than it was to fool the ancient farmer/kings.

The difference between string theory and what is now called paranatural "science" is that string theory is the product of mathematical deduction; in other words, it exists because it is a necessity in order to explain phenomena that we can actually confirm. There is nothing wrong with logical deduction (wether it is correct or not remains to be seen). I have yet to see or read about a single paranormal claim, including the ones that you have mentioned, in the twenty plus years that I have been involved in the paranormal, that faithfully followed the proper precepts of scientific research, or that went beyond logical deduction into speculation.

[Josiah]

"There was also no methodology in the testing procedures either"... (See below)

"I have yet to see or read about a single paranormal claim, including the ones that you have mentioned, in the twenty plus years that I have been involved in the paranormal, that faithfully followed the proper precepts of scientific research, or that went beyond "logical deduction into speculation".

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I think you got the above "logical deduction into speculation", a little backwards.

As to the faithful following of scientific research principles, the Ruskies have been at the business of paranormal research, a whole lot longer than we have, from at least the 60's onward and that is just paranormal research. What they did with Nikola Tesla's theories is another matter altogether and could easily be considered beyond "paranormal". (See Tom Bearden website: www.cheniere.org)

So if the FSU (Former Soviet Union) was willing to test out their own subjects' capabilities, under laboratory conditions and document the evidence with footage, then I am willing to accept it. There is only so much margin for error involved when you are talking about a glass dome, on a wooden table with a box of matches being moved around beneath dome. No magnetism (except may electromagnetic power of thought) could have been used here. No puff of wind under glass dome to move matches. And if you tried to rock the table, the dome would have slid off and smashed to the floor. Even if the dome was glued to the wooden table, have you ever tried to lift a heavy wooden table with your knees and move a small box of matches around ?

Right.

As to the paranormal practicioners of old, it would be nearly impossible to fake the paranormal - experiment documented at the turn of the century, which I described in my last post, regarding Daniel Douglas Holme.

You are entitled to your opinions.

I am entitled to mine.

Thanks for the dialogue we have shared.

Good Luck.

[aquatus1]

In Kinesiology class, I watched another film made by the Russians. It featured a very fit Russian jumping from the ground to a 2 foot box, back to the ground, to a three foot box, back to the ground, to a four foot box, back to the ground, to a five foot box, and back to the ground. This was shown to us as an example of plyometrics. The film itself, however, was a fake. It was one of the many dozen produced by Russia in an effort to market themselves as being superior in fitness, technology, and standard of living, as compared to their hated enemy, democratic America.

It is extremely possible to fake the paranormal, wether in the old days, or in our modern ones. Were these examples faked? In my opinion, yes, in yours, no. I have held the tests of old to the same standards as those today, and found them lacking. If they worked in the past, there is no reason why they sould not work today. If they didn't work in the past, then they most certainly would not work today either.

[Josiah]

In Kinesiology class, I watched another film made by the Russians.  It featured a very fit Russian jumping from the ground to a 2 foot box, back to the ground, to a three foot box, back to the ground, to a four foot box, back to the ground, to a five foot box, and back to the ground.  This was shown to us as an example of plyometrics.  The film itself, however, was a fake.  It was one of the many dozen produced by Russia in an effort to market themselves as being superior in fitness, technology, and standard of living, as compared to their hated enemy, democratic America.

It is extremely possible to fake the paranormal, wether in the old days, or in our modern ones.  Were these examples faked?  In my opinion, yes, in yours, no.  I have held the tests of old to the same standards as those today, and found them lacking.  If they worked in the past, there is no reason why they sould not work today.  If they didn't work in the past, then they most certainly would not work today either.

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As a parting thought, might I suggest someone trying to immerse oneself into that which plagues the mind most with doubt. Doing this might open the mind to hitherto unknown and currently unheard of possibilities, within the realm of the paranormal, supernatural and electromagnetic ~ (Tesla) phenomena.

If experiencing firsthand is truly believing, then an open mind is the key to truth.

You're an interesting person and again, I enjoyed the discourse.

The Future will be the judge of our opinions.

Take care.

[Xenojjin]

For a second there I thought this would be a new , non-assinine in concepts of personality skeptic . .... why post old news ? O.o

[malakiem]

I'm sorry but that man is a fool, a complete fraud. Absolutely no one just comes up and says "gee, i'll hand over 1 million dollars if you show me your talents". I'm sorry, if my grandfather who was rich, and yes in fact he was a b****** and wouldn't hand out any money, this guy wouldn't either. All of them are the same...

[Dowdy]

I'm sorry but that man is a fool, a complete fraud. Absolutely no one just comes up and says "gee, i'll hand over 1 million dollars if you show me your talents". I'm sorry, if my grandfather who was rich, and yes in fact he was a b****** and wouldn't hand out any money, this guy wouldn't either. All of them are the same...

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Well, my uncle is rich and he spends his money freely on relativies and friends. He is not "a b****** and wouldn't hand out any money" and they are not 'all the same'

[aquatus1]

The money is in the form of negotible bonds held in a special investment account, available for public confirmation. Randi is not one of the judges, rather he arranges the meeting between the claimant and a panel of scientists and magicians best suited to the claim, all of them on a publicly available list, complete with credentials.

There is quite a bit more to it than some old man saying "gee, i'll hand over 1 million dollars if you show me your talents". And I would question who was the fool if that is what you label a man who has a million dollars available to set aside for such a challenge.

[nate0192]

Most people claiming to have powers will not want to be tested because: they will be in front of a large crowd of people judging them which will make them nervous and this alone will probably make their abilities fail.

the part of the brain used in ESP, the angular gyrus, is suppressed by the kind of anxiety that being under pressure creates.

if the million dollars is still available when i get older, i'm going to try to prove it to him.

Edited December 27, 2004 by nate0192

[aquatus1]

the part of the brain used in ESP, the angular gyrus, is suppressed by the kind of anxiety that being under pressure creates.

The angular gyrus is also where the brain processes the information on balance and touch. Through the stimulation of this center, scientists can quite accurately replicate the effects of many paranormal phenomena related to to this. There is no indication, however, that these are anything other than signals being misinterpreted by the mind, as opposed to an actual, external, phenomena, nor is there any reason to believe that area of the mind is any more supressed than any other area of the mind by stress. If anything, the mind becomes more active during stressful periods.

[nate0192]

the left angular gyrus is stimulated by mental stress, which is why you're more likely to develop a psychic ability if you are under alot of stress. the angular gyri are suppressed by other kinds of stress, such as anxiety.

the angular gyri are part of the inferior parietal lobe.

http://publications.uu.se/theses/abstract....n=91-554-4220-X

http://publications.uu.se/theses/abstract....n=91-554-4220-X (the abstract that starts at page 27)

if you electrically stimulate other parts of the brain, you'll have hallucinations that aren't "actual, external phenomena", so electrical stimulation of the angular gyri would be a hallucination, if psychic abilities are real.

[aquatus1]

How are you differentiating stress? Anxiety, to the best of my knowledge, is still considered mental stress. What other kind is there?

Also, I do not understand your final statement. If electrical stimulation produces false psychic illusions in other parts of the brain, how does it follow that producing the same sort of illusions in the angular gyri would be evidence of psychic abilties? If one stimulates a part of the mind that produces the illusion of an apparition, it does not, in any way, provide evidence for the existence of apparatitions.

[nate0192]

by mental stress i mean the kind of stress you have when you are late for work or when you have alot of work you have to do in a certain amount of time. being nervous about something like having to play a musical instrument in front of alot of people is what i mean by anxiety.

i meant that when you stimulate the primary sensory cortices of the other senses, you have hallucinations of things that aren't there. if the angular gyri are the "primary sensory cortices" of ESP, then stimulating them is causing hallucinations of paranormal experiences, such as OBEs, and just because those aren't real doesn't mean that all paranormal experiences aren't real.

Edited December 27, 2004 by nate0192

[scipherel]

Does anyone of you works on television ?

If you're doing documentary on paranormal.

My asking price is A$350,000.

I could demonstrate that there is a form of unknown energy from my hand.

I could affect my subject on it.

Also give me a down payment of A$4,000 from taking days off without pay

on my job. And that payment was not refundable.

[Stellar]

scipherel: Even if you dont manage to prove it?

Contact Insight: He's offering a cash prize.

[scipherel]

scipherel: Even if you dont manage to prove it?

It is guaranteed Stellar !

How would you believe one million dollar when they get nothing in return ?

On television, the price they paid to you is nothing. They could get it back.

The problem here is finding the right person.

Contact Insight: He's offering a cash prize.

My week pay is 1,000 dollars. I wont bother.

Edited December 27, 2004 by scipherel

[Stellar]

Scipherel: I dont care if its guarenteed. Here, would you be willing to make it more interesting? Maybe you'll get someones attention... If you manage to prove it, the person payes you 350k USD. If you go there, and you dont prove it... you pay them, well, how much do ya got?

[scipherel]

Scipherel: I dont care if its guarenteed. Here, would you be willing to make it more interesting? Maybe you'll get someones attention... If you manage to prove it, the person payes you 350k USD. If you go there, and you dont prove it... you pay them, well, how much do ya got?

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You're joking !

I asked that price because i want to buy a decent house for my family.

I can't go there to do it ! It's like gambling.

There's no guarantee you could get any money if you could prove it.

I am attracting attention now ! but here in Australia. Not anywhere.

[Dowdy]

scipherel,

Why don't you prove it to insight. Not for the money but just to prove you have powers. It'll give you more credibility if you prove it to a small test first before you go out and get your big prize

[scipherel]

scipherel,

            Why don't you prove it to insight. Not for the money but just to prove you have powers. It'll give you more credibility if you prove it to a small test first before you go out and get your big prize

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What's the point ?

I'm holding an Ace. It's my rules.

It'll give you more credibility

I used to do it a lot of times...but...they are scared of me.

So i stopped doing it.

Edited December 27, 2004 by scipherel

[Stellar]

Hey, I can get you contact info to the guy offering 1 mil. Will you talk to him about proving your "powers"?

[scipherel]

Hey, I can get you contact info to the guy offering 1 mil. Will you talk to him about proving your "powers"?

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Thanks Stellar but i am not interested on that person.

I am really looking for the right person here in Australia.

My rules is:

My identity should be hidden.

No pay if i can not prove it.

[Stellar]

Why? Gee... you'd think someone with the actual abilities would jump at the chance to make 1 mil...