The plan for the end of Europe

[+OverSword]

Nonsense.

You say nonsense but you fit his profile of the PC person that takes great offense at any anti-refugee language. His article describes you to a tee.

[141]

Sorry Ya Amar I have to disagreed with this. There is a reality television program called bad neighbours or something like that at the moment which investigates feuds between neighbours! I have seen splits in families including my own which endure to the end of life. If a small sized country like Britain is split into five pieces then how is Europe not split? Politically they would have us believe that we are all good buddies. Then why is there so much argument in the European Common Market? Evolution from ape to humans has taken five to eight million years (estimated). And yet you say we have evolved since... when the foundation of nation states? That would be at best ten thousand years or so. Gobekli Tepe is perhaps 12,000 yrs old. However apart from perhaps using the place biannually or annually it's a place for festive gathering or similar since these people are thought to have been nomadic. The trend today politically is to have minority governments, where as, if we were united we would all vote for one party wouldn't we? The world is full of people who come from tribes.

well i dont believe we come from Apes , but that is my believe . i understand what you say but we are human beings with sense of right and wrong we have a conscious mind . i am not for segregation specially not in a time of crisis . What i mean with being more evolved i mean we are modern ppl and there shouldn't be segregation between races ...

[Helen of Annoy]

You say nonsense but you fit his profile of the PC person that takes great offense at any anti-refugee language. His article describes you to a tee.

Well, would you say I'm PC? Of course you wouldn't.

And I too think the article is nonsense.

It's nonsense because EU idea may be used and misused by many, but it didn't appear and it wasn't accepted because some shady clique would like to de-Europeanise Europe (I'm not saying such structures don't exist). It was accepted because it's good and logical idea. Why wouldn't we cooperate?

I see obvious conspiracy in the current deconstruction of the EU. Though it's possible the bureaucrats are simply that clumsy, I'd say there's more to this series of blows, designed to wake up the old and create new animosities and thus deconstruct Europe.

EU by itself can't erase national identites and even if that was the goal, such process would take centuries, the same as it takes for the usual, natural shifts in national identities (edit: national identites that used to be tribal identities before the invention of the nation).

The fear of migrants is irrational because no matter how pureblooded someone thinks they are, they're probably not. The only true purebloods are so inbred you can tell they had no influx populations by their hereditary diseases. No, thanks. I prefer healthy mongrels.

Edited October 26, 2015 by Helen of Annoy

[stevewinn]

The European Union will destroy itself, rest assured. Its inevitable, and when it does the Liberal left will do what they always do, shift the blame to someone else. its a trait.

[+OverSword]

Helen, the difference is I haven't seen you categorize people that are against bringing in a flood of refugees where I have seen others categorize those who disagree with them precisely as described in the OP. And no, you are just about the last person I would call PC.

[stevewinn]

Helen, the difference is I haven't seen you categorize people that are against bringing in a flood of refugees where I have seen others categorize those who disagree with them precisely as described in the OP. And no, you are just about the last person I would call PC.

Exactly right Helen Is not PC, if you follow her posts you'll see the mask slip on many occasion.

[+OverSword]

I think Helen is consistent and I don't see a mask. She has personal reasons to sympathize with the refugees not PC reasons.

[stevewinn]

I think Helen is consistent and I don't see a mask. She has personal reasons to sympathize with the refugees not PC reasons.

im not talking about migrants, If you've followed her posting long enough, you'd have understood where im coming from.

[imrunningthismonkeyfarm]

Hold on a minute!!

Neighbors don't get on with neighbors.. Families don't always get on.. Friends fall out all the time.. The truth is some people, me being one.. & I'm not alone, say they liked life how it was before mass immigration. In the UK there's a huge strain on the infrastructure including housing, hospitals, schools & everything, & I mean everything. Even the fish are being eaten on the banks of lakes, the wildlife are being hunted everyday, including birds.. Damn, there's even groups of immigrants scouring the forests taking fungi & anything else that's unpoliced. People from outside the UK have different morals, different upbringings.. Our way of life is changing but for the worse. None of them are bringing anything good just their problems and in some cases diseases. Not one of them are poor or in danger. And if they are in danger there's plenty of other countries to settle in on their way here. They are all smiling as they arrive. They just know Britain is a soft touch.. Everyday we are losing our identity.

And to the idiots that say we need them to pay for our pensions & such whose going to pay for theirs?

And yes there are good & bad in all walks of life, all colours & all religions but the UK is full.

And anyone that thinks one day when we are all the same colour or same religion are bonkers. Even religions and races separate over time.

[Helen of Annoy]

Helen, the difference is I haven't seen you categorize people that are against bringing in a flood of refugees where I have seen others categorize those who disagree with them precisely as described in the OP. And no, you are just about the last person I would call PC.

Idiots categorize. Because it’s too complicated for them to handle more than us-them, left-right... They need extremely simple structure. It’s near impossible to explain to them that making just enough left turns (3, to be precise) makes you go right ultimately, not to mention ups and downs and so on.

Pro and against Europe has nothing to do with Europe anymore, it fell to the cheap, politics of the moment level. Little men who have no vision or patience or courage for the future, they want their low hanging fruit today.

EU today is not working precisely because of that mentality.

But it will work someday. I would love to see it work in my lifetime, but I am aware that might not be the case. It will work, because it’s the natural evolution of our society. It can’t be stopped, only obstructed, for a while.

[141]

Hold on a minute!!

Neighbors don't get on with neighbors.. Families don't always get on.. Friends fall out all the time.. The truth is some people, me being one.. & I'm not alone, say they liked life how it was before mass immigration. In the UK there's a huge strain on the infrastructure including housing, hospitals, schools & everything, & I mean everything. Even the fish are being eaten on the banks of lakes, the wildlife are being hunted everyday, including birds.. Damn, there's even groups of immigrants scouring the forests taking fungi & anything else that's unpoliced. People from outside the UK have different morals, different upbringings.. Our way of life is changing but for the worse. None of them are bringing anything good just their problems and in some cases diseases. Not one of them are poor or in danger. And if they are in danger there's plenty of other countries to settle in on their way here. They are all smiling as they arrive. They just know Britain is a soft touch.. Everyday we are losing our identity.

And to the idiots that say we need them to pay for our pensions & such whose going to pay for theirs?

And yes there are good & bad in all walks of life, all colours & all religions but the UK is full.

And anyone that thinks one day when we are all the same colour or same religion are bonkers. Even religions and races separate over time.

i do understand your anger and you are right enough is enough .... but when is ''enough is enough '' in the Middle East ? Western Countries come and take Oil and Minerals from ME Countries try to bring '' DEMOCRACY '' to other Countries changing their identities and not only that but take lives of innocent people . Libya set their Oil on fire so the west wont be able to rob them , Tunisia has large Oil fields and Briton and USA come and take it , while the people have nothing . When was it enough for all of us ? Why the west needs to interfere in the Middle East ? its not their Country, its not their people ... we dont have the choice to say enough is enough ... yet , all western countries do business with the Middle East ... again , there seems to be something wrong with the big picture here . Obama bows to Saudi Kings and Brits are selling them weapons ... ??? Now these people get pushed around and have to wait for the highest bidder to say i take them ? everybody points the finger at those people no one gets at their governments but as usual the weak and poor have to suffer ...

[+OverSword]

Perfectly stated.

[stevewinn]

Hold on a minute!!

Neighbors don't get on with neighbors.. Families don't always get on.. Friends fall out all the time.. The truth is some people, me being one.. & I'm not alone, say they liked life how it was before mass immigration. In the UK there's a huge strain on the infrastructure including housing, hospitals, schools & everything, & I mean everything. Even the fish are being eaten on the banks of lakes, the wildlife are being hunted everyday, including birds.. Damn, there's even groups of immigrants scouring the forests taking fungi & anything else that's unpoliced. People from outside the UK have different morals, different upbringings.. Our way of life is changing but for the worse. None of them are bringing anything good just their problems and in some cases diseases. Not one of them are poor or in danger. And if they are in danger there's plenty of other countries to settle in on their way here. They are all smiling as they arrive. They just know Britain is a soft touch.. Everyday we are losing our identity.

And to the idiots that say we need them to pay for our pensions & such whose going to pay for theirs?

And yes there are good & bad in all walks of life, all colours & all religions but the UK is full.

And anyone that thinks one day when we are all the same colour or same religion are bonkers. Even religions and races separate over time.

It also needs highlighting. the UK immigration figure in the year ending (YE) March 2015. was 636,000 people. -

The net migration figure was a statistically significant increase from 236,000 in YE March 2014 and is the highest net migration on record.

The increase in non-EU net migration to 196,000 (up 39,000) was also statistically significant and is a result of an increase in immigration.

• 53,000 Romanian and Bulgarian (EU2) citizens immigrated to the UK in YE March 2015, a statistically significant increase and almost double the 28,000 in the previous 12 months.
  
• 
  
• 290,000 people immigrated for work in YE March 2015, a statistically significant increase of 65,000 from 225,000 in YE March 2014 continuing the upward trend.
  
• There were statistically significant increases of immigration for work for both EU citizens (from 134,000 to 162,000 in YE March 2015) and non-EU citizens (from 48,000 to 64,000). The increase for British citizens was not statistically significant. Of the 53,000 EU2 citizens immigrating to the UK, 42,000 were coming for work, a statistically significant increase of 20,000.
  
• 
  
• 61% of EU citizens immigrating for work had a definite job to go to, whereas 39% were intending to look for a job rather than taking up an offer of employment.
  
• Latest employment statistics show estimated employment of EU nationals (excluding British) living in the UK was 250,000 higher in April to June 2015 compared with the same quarter last year and non-EU nationals in employment increased by 7,000. Over the same period, British nationals in employment also increased (by 84,000), therefore three-quarters of the growth in employment over the last year was accounted for by foreign nationals. (These growth figures represent the net change in the number of people in employment, not the proportion of new jobs that have been filled by non-UK workers.)
  
• 
  
• In YE June 2015, work-related visas granted (main applicants) rose by 8,862 (or 8%) to 121,964, including a 5,177 (11%) increase for skilled work (Tier 2) visas.
  
• Long-term immigration for study increased from 176,000 to 188,000 in YE March 2015 (not statistically significant). Over the same period, visa applications to study at a UK university (main applicants) rose to 166,481.
  
• 
  
• There were 25,771 asylum applications (main applicants) in YE June 2015, an increase of 10% compared with the previous 12 months (23,515). The number of applications remains low relative to the peak number of applications in 2002 (84,132).
  
• 
  
• The largest number of applications for asylum came from nationals of Eritrea (3,568), followed by Pakistan (2,302) and Syria (2,204). A total of 11,600 people were granted asylum or an alternative form of protection.
  

whichever way we spin it we have gone from 49,000 immigrants in 1998 to 636,000 new faces in 2015. 58,000 in that figure where returning British.

To put that figure of 636,000 into some sort of perspective, That's the equivalent of the 4th largest city in the UK arriving in one year. and we wonder why services, local services and infrastructure is struggling. no country the size of the UK can absorb such numbers in such a small space of time and continually year after year.

[Socio]

i do understand your anger and you are right enough is enough .... but when is ''enough is enough '' in the Middle East ? Western Countries come and take Oil and Minerals from ME Countries try to bring '' DEMOCRACY '' to other Countries changing their identities and not only that but take lives of innocent people . Libya set their Oil on fire so the west wont be able to rob them , Tunisia has large Oil fields and Briton and USA come and take it , while the people have nothing . When was it enough for all of us ? Why the west needs to interfere in the Middle East ? its not their Country, its not their people ... we dont have the choice to say enough is enough ... yet , all western countries do business with the Middle East ... again , there seems to be something wrong with the big picture here . Obama bows to Saudi Kings and Brits are selling them weapons ... ??? Now these people get pushed around and have to wait for the highest bidder to say i take them ? everybody points the finger at those people no one gets at their governments but as usual the weak and poor have to suffer ...

Actually the US gets most of its oil from the US, what it imports in large part comes from Canada and Latin America very little from the Middle East, even then most of that is from Saudi Arabia so the whole notion the US is waging war for oil is a farce it does not need it.

http://www.npr.org/2012/04/11/150444802/where-does-america-get-oil-you-may-be-surprised

[Michelle]

Thank you, Socio. I doesn't matter how many times the facts are repeated some people will still hold on to what they want to believe.

Edited October 26, 2015 by Michelle

[imrunningthismonkeyfarm]

i do understand your anger and you are right enough is enough .... but when is ''enough is enough '' in the Middle East ? Western Countries come and take Oil and Minerals from ME Countries try to bring '' DEMOCRACY '' to other Countries changing their identities and not only that but take lives of innocent people . Libya set their Oil on fire so the west wont be able to rob them , Tunisia has large Oil fields and Briton and USA come and take it , while the people have nothing . When was it enough for all of us ? Why the west needs to interfere in the Middle East ? its not their Country, its not their people ... we dont have the choice to say enough is enough ... yet , all western countries do business with the Middle East ... again , there seems to be something wrong with the big picture here . Obama bows to Saudi Kings and Brits are selling them weapons ... ??? Now these people get pushed around and have to wait for the highest bidder to say i take them ? everybody points the finger at those people no one gets at their governments but as usual the weak and poor have to suffer ...

Sorry mate it wasn't anger it was frustration. I totally agree with everything you said but please understand this clearly.. The government invaded the middle east. They done it illegally and they didn't do it in my name. I haven't voted for labour or conservative ever. People like me are forced to vote for right wing parties like bnp & edl because they are the only parties that will bring back hanging for nonses & rapists. So I understand your anger & you have every right to be angry.. I would.

This government makes me and so many others very angry & bitter but it goes to show how many people are easily brainwashed in the UK as everyone votes the wrongens in.

And I don't blame foreigners for wanting to come here.. It's either because we're so soft or because they want to destroy us, but, they'll only hurt civilians as the government are protected.

You see!

[imrunningthismonkeyfarm]

And yes Stevewinn.. It's all gone to Pollocks!

[141]

Actually the US gets most of its oil from the US, what it imports in large part comes from Canada and Latin America very little from the Middle East, even then most of that is from Saudi Arabia so the whole notion the US is waging war for oil is a farce it does not need it.

http://www.npr.org/2...ay-be-surprised

well your link is very outdated from 2012 try this one

http://www.eia.gov/p...s/companylevel/

i hope you see a pattern here

Edited October 26, 2015 by YA AMAR

[Michelle]

I guess you missed this at the end of your link.

"Note: The data in the tables above exclude oil imports into the U.S. territories."

Nowhere does it say the US gets the majority of it's oil from a country it has had conflict with.

http://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.cfm?id=20692

Edited October 26, 2015 by Michelle

[Helen of Annoy]

Will you kindly get your US oil out of the thread about European Union?

[Michelle]

Will you kindly get your US oil out of the thread about European Union?

It never fails to come back around to the US.

[Deleted]

Segregation has been a part of human nature since mans existence, just as it is for most animal species on the planet, and it is why socialism, communism, or any other governmental structure that requires a collective to exist is doomed to fail.

Man is not a bee or an ant, man is an individual whom instinctively will seek like kind for the most basic law of nature, which is survival of the fittest not the whole.

This is why the EU is starting to fall apart, nationalism is on the rise, protecting individual borders has become paramount for most countries, it has less to do with racism, islamophobia or lack of sympathy toward immigrants, and more to do with natural instinct kicking in.

do you know human history (over 100000 years or do you mean western history, roman-christian history? I don`t believe you know every written history and I don`t think you know oral history or archaeological history. Also I don't think you can grasp the concept of free will and social science. ) It looks like you think human beings are machines which only react to experience and in your case you probably grew up in a competitive environment and with a lot of mean people so you think it is human nature, that`s not human nature it is psychology and social science, and people can chose as to how they want to live.

Nope not natural instinct it is the lifestyle of the current "civilization"

Edited October 26, 2015 by hellwyr

[141]

Sorry mate it wasn't anger it was frustration. I totally agree with everything you said but please understand this clearly.. The government invaded the middle east. They done it illegally and they didn't do it in my name. I haven't voted for labour or conservative ever. People like me are forced to vote for right wing parties like bnp & edl because they are the only parties that will bring back hanging for nonses & rapists. So I understand your anger & you have every right to be angry.. I would.

This government makes me and so many others very angry & bitter but it goes to show how many people are easily brainwashed in the UK as everyone votes the wrongens in.

And I don't blame foreigners for wanting to come here.. It's either because we're so soft or because they want to destroy us, but, they'll only hurt civilians as the government are protected.

You see!

i know this whole situation is very exhausting for all people ... many things dont make sense and i cant wrap my brain around it why so many have been literally invited knowing that it will cause chaos among population of europe . We all wonder here too , there could have been an easier way to deal with this with less casualties but governments and world leaders took it in their own hands and created a huge mess . they cant undo it and i think the worst is yet to come . i dont think these people come to destroy but many will look for a better life , they wont be able to achieve that . i have known some young people that risked their lives to go to lampedusa they ended up selling drugs and went into prostitution and some have died and others came back to tell the tale that not all is golden abroad . We dont have freedom like the west yet we try to measure up but it will never be accepted so you see they smell the scent of freedom but they will only run into their demise . Now look , governments push them back and forth like cattle and they dont care anymore where they die . You see , what i see here in the news is totally different from the Western news . People will try to push forward but many are aware of death and that is what hurts . they have nothing to look forward too . There is nothing that they can do right now but go from point A to B to ....etc etc ... i think at some point they may start to riot if they have strength left but it would be out of desperation . imagine just imagine what goes on in their heads ? they fled a war zone and come to see that they are not welcome they will not understand because the governments greatly invited them ..there will be anger and confusion for them too . they dont know the west to them it will be like being thrown into the water without being able to swim and it will be survival of the fittest . this is a big mess and those who caused it need to solve it somehow .we wish for peace lets hope this all ends well for whatever well means ... at last there is always hope

Edited October 26, 2015 by YA AMAR

[imrunningthismonkeyfarm]

YA AMAR.. Lets hope so mate but we know it won't.. It can't :-(

Were all being bent over. It's a shame coz I know there are good people from all these countries as there are bad people who were born in the UK but I fear there are a lot of terrorists mingling in with them. And anyway, wether good or bad theres priorities that need to be addressed here before we can support immigrants.

Sorry but I don't like the situation. I hate politics & regret joining the discussion.

See you in Acrymon it!!

:-P

[+OverSword]

Actually the US gets most of its oil from the US, what it imports in large part comes from Canada and Latin America very little from the Middle East, even then most of that is from Saudi Arabia so the whole notion the US is waging war for oil is a farce it does not need it.

http://www.npr.org/2...ay-be-surprised

Actually much of that ME oil is sold to other countries by American companies. We have our dirty fingers in many devious pies, we do.