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Benfornow

Ghost video merits?

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Benfornow

I'm new to the field of paranormal and ghosts. As one who has never had a paranormal experience, I never done any kind of research into the matter, so my knowledge is lacking. I do find it interesting. I'm of the thought that anything that is shown on Ghost Hunters or Ghost Adventures ect is staged to drive ratings and increase profit. I hold no credibility for any produced shows.

However, if ghosts are real then I think the best evidence would come from someone not trying to make a buck. For the skeptics on this subject, would there be any kind of video evidence alone, that would change your mind? For the believers, what are some of the best video examples of ghosts on unexplained-mysteries.com?

I want to get the opinions from both sides of the aisle and then I want try to get some footage to prove to myself the existence. Suppose on the small chance that I would get something on video that appears questionable. Is is ok to enhance the video?

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Shiloh17

I've had a few personal encounters, so call me a believer. However, there is no video that I would trust. No matter how fantastic or unbelieveable it may appear it would never be "proof" to me. Cork me ghost in a bottle, then we have proof.

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ChrLzs

Frankly, I don't get the question. Today, it is far easier than it ever was to fake a video - depending on the content, even an amateur can put together something 'ethereal'.

If *any* video comes with no supporting provenance, it is virtually worthless. I'm curious why you would think that a 'real' paranormal video should be judged without any other consideration?

Surely if a 'genuine' person takes such a video then there will be a whole story to go with it and also that person should be openly contributing to the debate - not only answering questions but also doing follow up videos using the same equipment, returning to the scene, etc, etc. If they are not... you're almost certainly being scammed - either that or the video author doesn't think it's worth putting in any time, in which case why should we?

Edited by ChrLzs
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acute

These days, every video and every still image can be faked. There are even 'Ghost apps' that will insert a spectral photo-bomber into your pics. You can 100% trust NOTHING you see on the internet. This is a game-changer for everyone interested in this area of the paranormal.

Obviously, in shows like GhostHunters, Most Haunted, etc, some things are faked if there is no 'real' paranormal activity to report. People earn a living from these shows.

However, 'making a buck' is not the only incentive. There are fakes all over youtube, made by people who simply delight in hoaxing, or want to increase the number of views on their videos.

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The Necromancer

I'm new to the field of paranormal and ghosts. As one who has never had a paranormal experience, I never done any kind of research into the matter, so my knowledge is lacking. I do find it interesting. I'm of the thought that anything that is shown on Ghost Hunters or Ghost Adventures ect is staged to drive ratings and increase profit. I hold no credibility for any produced shows.

However, if ghosts are real then I think the best evidence would come from someone not trying to make a buck. For the skeptics on this subject, would there be any kind of video evidence alone, that would change your mind? For the believers, what are some of the best video examples of ghosts on unexplained-mysteries.com?

I want to get the opinions from both sides of the aisle and then I want try to get some footage to prove to myself the existence. Suppose on the small chance that I would get something on video that appears questionable. Is is ok to enhance the video?

I don't like these commercially produced shows either and I went 'underground' a while ago.

Having said that, it's a personal thing and what one person may find helpful or useful, another person may not. I was hesitant about posting a link here, because the first thing people will do is try to discredit both it and myself when I am only trying to help you out, but I'm prepared to take my chances here....yet again...

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgN8fj2Tizb7n7OKyjN9SZw

These guys are pretty low-budget and aren't in it for money.

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toast

These guys are pretty low-budget and aren't in it for money.

Thats a starry-eyed statement and you are a dreamer. For what other reasons exactly than for commercial reasons do

you think they have a web shop, offering technical equipment for "ghost hunting" and books about this woo-woo, produce

lots of semi-professional vids and have a donation button on their HP?

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The Necromancer

See, there we go...I told you so!

You guys are so bloody predictable, it's not funny.

Seeing as how the OP asked for any resources, let them review it and see if they find it helpful or not eh?

Edited by The Necromancer

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MrBene

I started buying paranormal magazines when I was like 12 or 13. I'm 32 now and I haven't seen anything convincing on this matter but I'm open to watch new material. I agree on members saying that nowadays is harder and anyone can fake evidence on the internet, I'm aware of that, but still I spend some time watching footage and hearing audios.

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aquatus1

However, if ghosts are real then I think the best evidence would come from someone not trying to make a buck. For the skeptics on this subject, would there be any kind of video evidence alone, that would change your mind? For the believers, what are some of the best video examples of ghosts on unexplained-mysteries.com?

The main problem, and the most common one, is the idea that "seeing is believing" is strong evidence. Visual evidence is evidence, of course, but it isn't strong evidence. It is weak evidence, because it is basically subjective. A video of an event doesn't really offer more data than personal testimony. It offers more accurate data than testimony of the same event, but when all is said and done, it is still only a very limited perspective of what is happening.

Video evidence is fine if you are documenting behavior, or keeping records, of known events. It's fine for simple things like that. But it isn't anywhere near credible or strong enough to serve as the foundation for the existence of an entirely new phenomenon. Whether you are making money of it doesn't really matter all that much; there is nothing wrong with making money off your work. It isn't that people make money that shoots their credibility in the foot. It is the claims they make that do that.

So, to summarize, even if we assume ghosts are real, even if we assume you got Hollywood level quality clips of ghosts floating around, even if you are totally, 100%, absolutely honest and sincere about your claims...a video will never be a suitable medium to "prove" the existence of ghosts. It simply doesn't contain enough explanatory power, and it doesn't have the credibility, that is needed.

What people, on a personal level, will accept, is up to them, but that doesn't have anything to do with scientific credibility.

Edited by aquatus1

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Benfornow

I've had a few personal encounters, so call me a believer. However, there is no video that I would trust. No matter how fantastic or unbelieveable it may appear it would never be "proof" to me. Cork me ghost in a bottle, then we have proof.

I too, think I would have a difficult time trusting a video unless I personally shot it.

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Benfornow

I'm curious why you would think that a 'real' paranormal video should be judged without any other consideration?

Where did I mention that?

Surely if a 'genuine' person takes such a video then there will be a whole story to go with it and also that person should be openly contributing to the debate

If a video can be faked why not the story?

Edited by Benfornow

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Benfornow

These days, every video and every still image can be faked. There are even 'Ghost apps' that will insert a spectral photo-bomber into your pics. You can 100% trust NOTHING you see on the internet. People earn a living from these shows.

I agree with all of this and that is why is so difficult to find any footage I can trust.

However, 'making a buck' is not the only incentive. There are fakes all over youtube, made by people who simply delight in hoaxing, or want to increase the number of views on their videos.

If they are posting video for views then it is basically in line with making a buck-more views equals more profit. Yet there are probably some videos with low views, not generating profit that could have something interesting.

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Benfornow

I was hesitant about posting a link here, because the first thing people will do is try to discredit both it and myself when I am only trying to help you out,

https://www.youtube....izb7n7OKyjN9SZw

These guys are pretty low-budget and aren't in it for money.

Thanks for the link. I'll view it soon. I hope more UM member's have the courage, even if they are skeptics to post links to videos of the paranormal type that they find intriguing.

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Paranormalcy

I applaud Benfornow's questions and agree with most, and more specifically with Aquatus' statements.

For me personally, I will "believe" the same way I "believe" in physics or math or chemistry - when there is a scientific principal and either a large pool or rational authorities that have verified it and stand behind it, or it is so widely accepted and has been somehow confirmed that it is in a standard and non-controversial textbook that nobody is opposing, In other words, I'll fully "believe" in the idea of ghosts like I'd believe in god - when I am empirically convinced by falsifiable EVIDENCE and it can be demonstrated reliably and is accepted by people who live in the realm of research and testing and objective verification or denial of claims and hypotheses.

I think there may be "ghost phenomenon" that may be still not fully understood or dismissed, but that doesn't make it spirits of the dead, anymore than "UFO" means "spaceship" or even "UFO" or "spaceship" is directly related to aliens, or anything else. There is way too much assumption and a baseless reliance on anecdotal lore, like when people assert this or that about the spirit world or the astral plane or Ouija board demons, or religion. I say "says WHO?"

I'm not dismissing people that think there are ghosts, or who have had ghost experiences or seen them, and I'm not calling them crazy or frauds, necessarily (though no doubt some are) - I'm saying that MY personal criteria for accepting things, and unsupported claims don't cut it - even if it's an authentic, personally delivered firsthand account from family (which I have heard a good handful of, complete with visual phantom moving across the room toward them).

That said, I enjoy most of the ghost shows from time to time, really enjoyed the first few seasons of Mountain Monsters, because it was fantastically entertaining, am a big fan of poltergeist phenomena, or Recurrent Spontaneous PsychoKinesis (RSPK) and the concept of thoughtforms or tulpas. I also am intrigued by alien abductions and a long-time fan of the interesting hobby of Ouija boards.

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ChrLzs

Where did I mention that?

Here's what you said. I've highlighted the important bit - if it's not what you meant,. why did you say it?

would there be any kind of video evidence alone, that would change your mind?
If a video can be faked why not the story?

To do a good fake video is one thing to get right. To come up with a logical and full story that goes with it, is harder again. If you *are* faking it, then it's hard enough to get all that together - then to withstand some reasonable scrutiny (eg requests to video the same scene in daylight, for example) gets much harder. Unless you are reporting a true experience...

That's why I keep going on like a broken record. It's not just the video. It's not just the story. It's how the whole thing hangs together and whether the person presenting it is fair dinkum..

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Benfornow

Here's what you said. I've highlighted the important bit - if it's not what you meant,. why did you say it?

Unfortunately, you cut off the beginning of my quote which contained an important part-addressing the question to skeptics. I'm not a skeptic or a believer. I guess you could say I'm neutral. Of course there should be judged considerations, I already mentioned produced videos which I think have no credibility.

To do a good fake video is one thing to get right. To come up with a logical and full story that goes with it, is harder again.

What is so difficult about coming up with a logical and full story? Again, most people can come up with an elaborate story. Now for me, since I'm neutral I don't think a story is all that important. Suppose a house has tenants for 30 years, then if those walls could talk there would be countless stories and history etched into the structure.

If you *are* faking it, then it's hard enough to get all that together - then to withstand some reasonable scrutiny (eg requests to video the same scene in daylight, for example) gets much harder.

When you mention filming the same scene in daylight is that to get a clear view for something that might be mistaken at night for being paranormal or if something filmed at night that appears paranormal do you expect to reappear again during the day? I consider ghosts to be merely remnant energy which should be common. Yet I think getting that energy on video to be extremely difficult, requiring the right conditions.
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Paranormalcy

The idea of "stories etched into the structure" has various interpretations but Sir Arthur Conan Doyle referred to it as "the Etheric Steppe", and of course in general terms it's called a "residual haunting".

This is not an attack or a gotcha, but this:

I consider ghosts to be merely remnant energy which should be common. Yet I think getting that energy on video to be extremely difficult, requiring the right conditions.

... seems to conflict with your statement you're not a believer or skeptic. I can kinda understand how you might say "IF there is X, it could work like Y" but that is heavily leaning on a REALLY open-minded listener, and honestly, I think you may not realize yourself. Anyone that's interested in the paranormal is effectively "a believer" in some way, unless their sole purpose is to debunk anything.

I'm a skeptic but I would like to think, or hope, that somehow, there might be something to all the anecdotes, but the most I've "studied" on this stuff, since I was a kid, til now in my early forties, it's seeming less and less likely, and I don't have any personal convictions on how any paranormal thing works, other than a vague willingness to entertain some of the most common ideas, in essence, if not specifics.

At one time I had a theory of "mass psychic resonance" which was at work in how ghosts appear to some people but not to others, based on the beliefs of the people potentially perceiving the phenomenon - you can still find my original post in Google just by typing "mass psychic resonance".

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1963

These days, every video and every still image can be faked. There are even 'Ghost apps' that will insert a spectral photo-bomber into your pics. You can 100% trust NOTHING you see on the internet. This is a game-changer for everyone interested in this area of the paranormal.

Obviously, in shows like GhostHunters, Most Haunted, etc, some things are faked if there is no 'real' paranormal activity to report. People earn a living from these shows.

However, 'making a buck' is not the only incentive. There are fakes all over youtube, made by people who simply delight in hoaxing, or want to increase the number of views on their videos.

yes,...but twas always thus! ....Cinematic and photographic evidence cannot imo be put forward as being absolute "proof", no matter how old the film.

http://www.wimp.com/earliesteffects/

http://users.telenet...nts/ghosts.html

Th.W.Ghost-06.jpg

Cheers.

Edited by 1963
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freetoroam

Some people are striving for the ghost stories to be true, they will even allow themselves to be convinced by youtube videos.

If a REAL ghost did appear, then the media would be all over it, they would follow it up, research the history, find out about the story behind the building, people, deaths etc etc etc and James Randi would come out of retirement and jump on it like a fly to s***.

So far we have the odd newspaper articles showing alleged ghosts in failing pubs , but no follow up.

Too much emphasis today is placed on the video and who can fake the best ghost, they have actually forgotten about researching the place over time to come up with concurrent evidence as to opposed to a one off.

So far there are no videos IMO which deserve any merit as being conclusive proof, imaginative - yes, some do go out of their way to create hoaxes and I can imagine its more entertaining for them to "create" a scene, like being film producers, directors and loving the fact that some people will think its real.

This is relatively new, being a producer and director of a film, without having to compete or compared to Spielberg, Fisher, Craven and the master of directing himself, Hitchcock.

These wannabe ghost film producers are having a ball, some are pretty good at it, some will never even get past the visitors toilets at Hollywood.

Edited by freetoroam

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Benfornow

The idea of "stories etched into the structure" has various interpretations but Sir Arthur Conan Doyle referred to it as "the Etheric Steppe", and of course in general terms it's called a "residual haunting".

This is not an attack or a gotcha, but this:

... seems to conflict with your statement you're not a believer or skeptic. I can kinda understand how you might say "IF there is X, it could work like Y" but that is heavily leaning on a REALLY open-minded listener, and honestly, I think you may not realize yourself.s

I look at it as from a technology standpoint. Suppose you were able to show someone a dvd 50 years ago. They would have no means or understanding on how to get any information out of it. Yet we both agree that even an empty dvd has data on it. I think that same could be said for ghosts or the paranormal.There could be, data imprinted into structures that at present time we do not have the technology to extract. Yet under the right circumstances the data maybe released spontaneously and that could explain some paranormal events.
Anyone that's interested in the paranormal is effectively "a believer" in some way, unless their sole purpose is to debunk anything.
Why? I'm interested in Greeks myths, and fables yet I don't believe in them.

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Thorvir

See, there we go...I told you so!

You guys are so bloody predictable, it's not funny.

Seeing as how the OP asked for any resources, let them review it and see if they find it helpful or not eh?

Translation: "My argument was stomped flat, as usual, so I have nothing else to offer."

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Paranormalcy

snapback.pngParanormalcy, on 08 November 2015 - 11:43 PM, said:

Anyone that's interested in the paranormal is effectively "a believer" in some way, unless their sole purpose is to debunk anything.

Why? I'm interested in Greeks myths, and fables yet I don't believe in them.

While I personally agree these are more or less the same, the prevailing wisdom is that "the paranormal" that is going on today, is an as-yet fully unplumbed mystery and active field of ongoing phenomena and puzzles, very little of which has to do with religion proper.

Mythology is generally agreed upon morality tales and abstractions by primitive peoples that created gods to explain weather, luck, behaviors and other phenomenon we now understand. People that study mythology do it as a reference to understanding earlier thought and cultures and their ideas of mortality and divinity and not because anyone believe Zeus or Demeter really caused problems for people. The paranormal is a modern pool of experiences and not agreed-upon nor necessarily groundless body of events and claims and people that investigate it believe in some fashion, of its veracity, enough to put effort into studying it, because they want it explained and want answers about IT - not solely to find out about the primitives that believed in the obviously fictional guide to life it presents (because it presents none).

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Galactic Goatman

Yes, sadly ghost photos/videos have been faked since the beginning of the camera. First it was double exposures and now its "ghost apps". 99.9% of alleged ghost photos are fake, however, all we need is that .1% to prove they exist. After all, many so called "hard" science ideas are nothing more that that, ideas. If ghostology could get just one photo that is with out a doubt real, than it already has more proof than many mainstream science ideas.

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Thorvir

...however, all we need is that .1% to prove they exist.

I can agree with that. All it will take is actual proof. So far, none exists.

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Galactic Goatman

The greatest modern treasure isn't gold or jewels, but a undeniably real ghost photograph.

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