Britain WILL bomb Syria

[acidhead]

To be fair, acidhead...when no one comes to the rescue of the people calling for help, wherever, whoever does not respond also becomes the bad guy.

Who exactly is being wronged is very subjective, as we see in these discussion here every day.

Okay Michelle... to be fair.... provide some examples of citizens back home being attacked by immigrants for the failure of their GOV's military to provide support in their home nations?

[Bavarian Raven]

It's cool - we're enjoying having our boys safe at home. You go ahead and play conqueror in the desert. Our immigration policies will keep us safer than your bombs will.

Not really - its a cowardly act to retreat from the fight IMHO as a Canadian (a thought many canadians share).

[Leonardo]

Not really - its a cowardly act to retreat from the fight IMHO as a Canadian (a thought many canadians share).

Personally, I respect Canada's resolve. Joining with the US, UK and "allies" is joining in an illegal military action supporting an insurgency against the recognised govt of a foreign state. Canada could go to the Syrians and Russians, and ask to join their party - but how do you think the US, UK and the other "Western powers" would respond to that?

Canada can't afford to get it's "friends" offside with it, and it doesn't want to get involved in illegally supporting a coup. Backing out and choosing no action is probably the only path Canada can take.

The only proper resolution would be if "the West" as a group were to approach Syria and Russia and co-ordinate with the Syrian govt in taking military action, but we know that won't happen because "the West" wants to oust Assad.

[Space Commander Travis]

With all due respect, with these particular members, it DOES require explaining. You have to acquire the correct mindset when discussing anything with them. Start from the premise that every major problem worldwide is the fault of Western countries and said problems can only be corrected by those Western countries fixing what they broke. It's a peculiar form of patriotism I think. It will pass though - as soon as blood begins to regularly flow in British and US streets and cities. This type will get very quiet, I'd imagine.

Well... there was no such thing as Daesh/ISIL/ISIS until after the "liberation" of Iraq. There was in fact no association of terrorism or radical Islamic extremism with Iraq at all while the Tyrant Saddam was in charge. It would surely require a really stubborn closing of one's mind to refuse to consider that there just might be a correlation here. If you ever did reply to any of the things I ask you, I might ask you if you explain how this had nothing to do with the actions of "Western Countries"?

And i don't understand what you mean by "said problems can only be corrected by those Western countries fixing what they broke". You now seem to be arguing against intervention. Are you saying that Western countries shouldn't in fact get involved in fighting radical extremism?

Edited December 5, 2015 by Norbert the Powerful

[Space Commander Travis]

I don't think it needs to be explained how defeating ISIS will make the world a safer place. And I'm glad that Britain is now at the forefront of fighting ISIS rather than just relying on other countries to keep British citizens safe.

What i was talking about specifically with this was the Dear Leader's assertion that bombing oil production plants in Syria will prevent radicalised extremists coming to Britain to carry out terror attacks, not just a vague sentiment that destroying ISIS/ISISl/Daesh will make the world a better place.

[Space Commander Travis]

Technically speaking, Syria is no longer a country. No control of borders, no operating infrastructure on a national basis, no central control over territory. Assad gave up the right to any moral high ground when he started shooting civilians in the earliest days of protests. Sad thing is that he's still the BEST of a bunch of bad options....

Well, fortunately we saved Libya from that, didn't we. The "West" really prevented that country descending into a failed state by ousting the tyrant there.

oh no, am I blaming the "West" again?

Edited December 5, 2015 by Norbert the Powerful

[Space Commander Travis]

Personally, I respect Canada's resolve. Joining with the US, UK and "allies" is joining in an illegal military action supporting an insurgency against the recognised govt of a foreign state. Canada could go to the Syrians and Russians, and ask to join their party - but how do you think the US, UK and the other "Western powers" would respond to that?

Canada can't afford to get it's "friends" offside with it, and it doesn't want to get involved in illegally supporting a coup. Backing out and choosing no action is probably the only path Canada can take.

The only proper resolution would be if "the West" as a group were to approach Syria and Russia and co-ordinate with the Syrian govt in taking military action, but we know that won't happen because "the West" wants to oust Assad.

Well, M. Hollande seems to have done just that, for which you have to give him credit. He was in a position where he had to be seen to "do something", even if it could only be as much a token gesture as Mr. C's Doing Something (although the Charles de Gaulle is capable of carrying more than four planes), but he seems to have been sensible enough to co-ordinate with the Tyrant Putin, or at least agree not to try to get in each other's way. Edited December 5, 2015 by Norbert the Powerful

[Guest Br Cornelius]

When the USA and UK re-find their moral compass, it might just be possible for sensible policies to emerge.

Until that time its all about greed and looking after Israel's interests.

Br Cornelius

[Mr.United_Nations]

I think we should carry on talking about the Islamic state and not Israel

[Space Commander Travis]

Everything comes down to Israel.

[Guest Br Cornelius]

Israel (and the greater Israel project) cannot be ignored when discussing anything to do with its neighbours.

Br Cornelius

[stevewinn]

We all went to bed on September 10th and little did we know what would follow the following day, how a small group of less than 20 individuals have caused what can only be described as utter carnage, misery and suffering around the world. For me 9/11 sparked the modern day equivalent, a chain reaction - similar to when Garvrilo Princip and the hand full of would-be assassins. Assassinated Archduke Franz Ferdinand.

President Bush 2002 Axis of Evil speech. -

since 2002 we've been going through that list one by one.

Iraq 2003 -

Libya 2011

Syria 2013 -

Cuba 2014 (diplomatic relations)

Iran

North Korea

There must be a end game, that's been agreed at one of those clandestine meetings.

Edited December 5, 2015 by stevewinn

[Guest Br Cornelius]

We all went to bed on September 10th and little did we know what would follow the following day, how a small group of less than 20 individuals have caused what can only be described as utter carnage, misery and suffering around the world. For me 9/11 sparked the modern day equivalent, a chain reaction - similar to when Garvrilo Princip and the hand full of would-be assassins. Assassinated Archduke Franz Ferdinand.

President Bush 2002 Axis of Evil speech. -

since 2002 we've been going through that list one by one.

Iraq 2003 -

Libya 2011

Syria 2013 -

Cuba 2014 (diplomatic relations)

Iran

North Korea

There must be a end game, that's been agreed at one of those clandestine meetings.

It took a special kind of stupidity to let that happen and Bush and his cronies had that in spades.

However when you consider that what happened subsequently to 911 followed a detailed NeoCon road map - you have to ask if it was really stupidity at all.

911 was the trigger that allowed the plan to be implemented.

Br Cornelius

Edited December 5, 2015 by Br Cornelius

[Space Commander Travis]

Oh dear, it's worse than I thought. http://www.aol.co.uk/news/2015/12/05/raf-jets-launch-second-oilfield-attack-as-defence-secretary-visits-cyprus-base/

"RAF fighter jets targeted another Syrian oilfield during the second combat sortie from the British base in Cyprus last night, Defence Secretary Michael Fallon has confirmed." "Last night saw the full force of the RAF", he said." Four planes? That's the full force?

And will you lsiten to the delusion of the twerp? Mr Fallon said: "They (the military) have the support of Parliament, Parliament represents the public. You have support across the political spectrum from all sides and a clear decisive majority. Parliament represents the public? He can't be that naive, he must be lying deliberately.

[Space Commander Travis]

"He made no assurances about the length of the campaign, telling them only it was "not going to be short or simple"."

Unlike most of the politicians running the "campaign".

[stevewinn]

Oh dear, it's worse than I thought. http://www.aol.co.uk...ts-cyprus-base/

"RAF fighter jets targeted another Syrian oilfield during the second combat sortie from the British base in Cyprus last night, Defence Secretary Michael Fallon has confirmed." "Last night saw the full force of the RAF", he said." Four planes? That's the full force?

And will you lsiten to the delusion of the twerp? Mr Fallon said: "They (the military) have the support of Parliament, Parliament represents the public. You have support across the political spectrum from all sides and a clear decisive majority. Parliament represents the public? He can't be that naive, he must be lying deliberately.

I've just watched Defence Secretary on the News, when he mentioned "full force" of the RAF, he was referring to using all the RAF's different strike capabilities, IE: Tornado, Typhoon and UAV Reaper. - electronic warfare Sentinel R1 & Rivet Joint surveillance aircraft, plus a Voyager tanker. its interesting to note the Sentinel, Rivet joint and tanker are based at al-Udeid air base in Qatar. you'd think they'd be flying out of Cyprus or Iraq. just shows how unstable Iraq still is.

[acidhead]

General Wesley Clark:

Because I had been through the Pentagon right after 9/11. About ten days after 9/11, I went through the Pentagon and I saw Secretary Rumsfeld and Deputy Secretary Wolfowitz. I went downstairs just to say hello to some of the people on the Joint Staff who used to work for me, and one of the generals called me in. He said, "Sir, you've got to come in and talk to me a second." I said, "Well, you're too busy." He said, "No, no." He says, "We've made the decision we're going to war with Iraq." This was on or about the 20th of September. I said, "We're going to war with Iraq? Why?" He said, "I don't know." He said, "I guess they don't know what else to do." So I said, "Well, did they find some information connecting Saddam to al-Qaeda?" He said, "No, no." He says, "There's nothing new that way. They just made the decision to go to war with Iraq." He said, "I guess it's like we don't know what to do about terrorists, but we've got a good military and we can take down governments." And he said, "I guess if the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem has to look like a nail."

So I came back to see him a few weeks later, and by that time we were bombing in Afghanistan. I said, "Are we still going to war with Iraq?" And he said, "Oh, it's worse than that." He reached over on his desk. He picked up a piece of paper. And he said, "I just got this down from upstairs" -- meaning the Secretary of Defense's office -- "today." And he said, "This is a memo that describes how we're going to take out seven countries in five years, starting with Iraq, and then Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and, finishing off, Iran." I said, "Is it classified?" He said, "Yes, sir." I said, "Well, don't show it to me." And I saw him a year or so ago, and I said, "You remember that?" He said, "Sir, I didn't show you that memo! I didn't show it to you!"

[acidhead]

I've just watched Defence Secretary on the News, when he mentioned "full force" of the RAF, he was referring to using all the RAF's different strike capabilities, IE: Tornado, Typhoon and UAV Reaper. - electronic warfare Sentinel R1 & Rivet Joint surveillance aircraft, plus a Voyager tanker. its interesting to note the Sentinel, Rivet joint and tanker are based at al-Udeid air base in Qatar. you'd think they'd be flying out of Cyprus or Iraq. just shows how unstable Iraq still is.

What is 'full force'?

In 1945 german cities were bombed with full force. Thousands were killed. In just one weekend the city, I believe, Dresden was reduced to ashes. From sources I've read the bombers came back in waves. Just when the people would come out from thrir bomb shelters to collect the dead the bombers would return. It happened over and over for four continuous days. The heat was so intense from the bombing that people were found melted into the streets. It was a complete brutal massacre.

[Bavarian Raven]

[

So I came back to see him a few weeks later, and by that time we were bombing in Afghanistan. I said, "Are we still going to war with Iraq?" And he said, "Oh, it's worse than that." He reached over on his desk. He picked up a piece of paper. And he said, "I just got this down from upstairs" -- meaning the Secretary of Defense's office -- "today." And he said, "This is a memo that describes how we're going to take out seven countries in five years, starting with Iraq, and then Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and, finishing off, Iran." I said, "Is it classified?" He said, "Yes, sir." I said, "Well, don't show it to me." And I saw him a year or so ago, and I said, "You remember that?" He said, "Sir, I didn't show you that memo! I didn't show it to you!"

And that is what exactly should be unleashed upon ISIS.

Such utter destruction, carnage, death that they should be too afraid to ever hit us again. Make them want nothing more then to cower in fear in their rubbly bit of the world.

Edited December 5, 2015 by Bavarian Raven

[acidhead]

Israel (and the greater Israel project) cannot be ignored when discussing anything to do with its neighbours.

Br Cornelius

Israel hasn't lifted one finger, to our knowledge, to 'help' it's so-called allies since the western world has been forced to accept the so-called War on Terror. Zero. Not one soldier. Not even a cook or a god damned labourer to clean the toilets. Nothing.

Yet, the circumstances have never been more clear. Their problem has become our problem.

It wasn't like this before 911. Especially here in Canada. We kept our noses out of other nations business militarily and in return you heard of no ill regard to immigrant or refugee assimilations. Nothing. We led by example.

All this has changed. And it's becoming worse everyday the more our government interferes militarily in the Middle East.

I sometimes wonder when Israel is going to join the so-called Coalition of the Killing. When will they make their grand entrance? What spurs their great leaders to bomb another country besides bombing the people inside of their own country.<---I CAN'T BELIEVE THAT'S THE UNDENIABLE TRUTH When will their focus and attention turn to helping their allies who have sacrificed their sons for the same of their nations short existence. What event will it take to spur their leaders into forcing their people into accepting bombing another nation? What will it take?

Edited December 5, 2015 by acidhead

[Guest Br Cornelius]

No need for the Israelis to get their hands dirty.

Br Cornelius

[Space Commander Travis]

This in the News today:

PM's UK ISIL Terror Plot Claim Under Fire

None of the seven terror plots foiled in the UK over the past year was directed from Syria, senior MPs have been told by security and intelligence sources.

Despite David Cameron’s claim that the plots were ‘linked to’ or ‘inspired by’ ISIL, MPs have ascertained there is no evidence that any of them were actually coordinated by the Islamists’ command and control centre in Raqqa.

The admission is a serious challenge to the case for RAF bombing in Syria as it counters the hints from some Tory – and Labour - MPs that ISIL in Syria had to be targeted with airstrikes because it poses a ‘direct’ threat to the UK.

Of course, no one believes that Winston Cameron's "blitz" on Syria (have they actually dropped any more bombs, or has it faded into the realms of fiction just like all the other "Western" campaigns against ISIS/L?) was anything other than a token gesture to be Seen to be Doing Something, do they.

[kartikg]

Israel hasn't lifted one finger, to our knowledge, to 'help' it's so-called allies since the western world has been forced to accept the so-called War on Terror. Zero. Not one soldier. Not even a cook or a god damned labourer to clean the toilets. Nothing.

Yet, the circumstances have never been more clear. Their problem has become our problem.

It wasn't like this before 911. Especially here in Canada. We kept our noses out of other nations business militarily and in return you heard of no ill regard to immigrant or refugee assimilations. Nothing. We led by example.

All this has changed. And it's becoming worse everyday the more our government interferes militarily in the Middle East.

I sometimes wonder when Israel is going to join the so-called Coalition of the Killing. When will they make their grand entrance? What spurs their great leaders to bomb another country besides bombing the people inside of their own country.<---I CAN'T BELIEVE THAT'S THE UNDENIABLE TRUTH When will their focus and attention turn to helping their allies who have sacrificed their sons for the same of their nations short existence. What event will it take to spur their leaders into forcing their people into accepting bombing another nation? What will it take?

There are two possibilities but for same reasons one being Israel doesn't want to join or it's deliberately kept out. All Muslims countries consider it's a sin ( for the lack of better word) to join any alliance with israel , heck they don't even play soccer with them and Israel plays under European leagues. So the moment Israel enters coalition all Muslim nations are going to become hostile openly or covertly or the domestic pressure will make their government fall.

[Space Commander Travis]

So is Winston Cameron still blitzing the fuzzy-wuzzies? The Media have gone rather quiet with their jingoistic trumpeting. Perhaps Winnie has decided that, having made a token gesture by dropping four bombs with Incredible precision because he decided that it would improve his poll ratings to be seen to be Doing Something, he doesn't need to carry on doing it, and is just pretending that he is.

Edited December 11, 2015 by Norbert the Powerful