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THE REAL REASON FOR WAR


odinsupreme

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I believe that the war was wrong politically but was right socially and morally

i was watching this show a few days ago. It was telling that the documents that Colin Powell show to the UN to convince the other countries to go to war was just a cheap ripoff of internet material. United States intelligence came up with 'new' information but they gave the info to Tony Blair and made him try to convince the world - they thought more people will listen to him than George Bush and they said they wanted Saddam dead well before the first Gulf war but lacked evidence to go after him.

I believe about 70% of what they said on the show for two reasons:

1. They haven't found any WMD

2. N. Korea is a much more greater threat than iraq

Don't get me wrong, Saddam should of been removed for what he has done to his people but like i said I believe that the war was wrong politically but was right socially and morally

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Just as I tell the UTEP University Democrats, who protested after the conflict was over, (but they support our troops! rolleyes.gif ) "What, you want us to give Iraq back to Saddam?" The simple fact of the matter is it needed to be done.

North Korea is a lot of hot air and bluster. When I was there, I didn't see but one North Korean Soldier on their side of the DMZ. They are starving! All they want is some leverage, so they can get back on their feet. They know damn well that if they tried anything, they'd have the United States and ROK army shoved so far up their (excuse the cursing) ass they'd taste the grease on our tank treads.

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I think he's still very much alive, but even if they kill him there will not be peace in the middle-east.

Some interesting points in relation to the USA's involvement in World politics.

However, regardless of the political circus that exists in this world, my full support goes out to all the troops, wherever they may be, serving their countries with a conviction that they can make a difference to people's quality of life.

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sageghost,

I'm in full support of what you posted, but the link you provided was from Michael Moore, who is one of the most hated men in America. Michael Moore and 'Bowling for Columbine' represent his biased, left wing, anti-American view on American politics and is not considered fair and balanced. Even members of his own political party detest him, and he has more than once disgraced himself due to his views and his innacuracies

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However, regardless of the political circus that exists in this world, my full support goes out to all the troops, wherever they may be, serving their countries with a conviction that they can make a difference to people's quality of life.

Sage Ghost... I agree

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I'm about to get my ass chewed, I know, but here goes. I never really supported the war, as I felt the reasons we were going were not the reasons we gave. I do, however, hope Saddam, Uday, and Qusay have a nice trip to hell, and enjoy the weather. these were very, very bad people. The President did, ah, lie, about Iraq attempting to obtain uranium from Africa, I think he knowingly used bad information, and I can't say I'm happy about that. But, I am proud to live in a country where I can do a jig in the street and yell "@$#! Bush" as loud as I want and no one will kill my family. I also use the word we, because whether I agree with our policy or not, I'm still an American and if things go bad I'm probably gonna be over there defending my right to hate the president.

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The President did, ah, lie, about Iraq attempting to obtain uranium from Africa, I think he knowingly used bad information, and I can't say I'm happy about that. 

snuffypuffer,

This is not correct information. Bush did not lie about what he put in his speech. The controversy involving Iraq's attempt at obtaining uranium from Africa was not about Bush lying, but about the information being supplied by British intelligence and not confirmed by the CIA. Since the British government still stands by that statement, the only thing Bush was being bashed for was not having that confirmed by the CIA. However, his truthfulness was not in question

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Ok, here goes. So far, I don't see any comments on this thread that

refer to terrorism. Yes, that WORD that is now part of our everyday lives.

WMD... Insane Dictator and his two Insane sons... Lies, lies, lies from Iraq for how many years?

Syria, Iran, Iraq, Pakistan, Afghanastan, Saudia Arabia... just to name a few, are interconnected with borders unprotected, agendas that are not "Ozzie and Harriet"... all contribute to the desire to eliminate Western cultures, in one form or the other.

The money flows, the 'bad guys' plot and decent men and women are being ambushed.

How many years has Saddam had to hide, cheat and wiggle his way out of his responsibilities to comply with UN Resolutions? How many months have the various Military Forces "occupied" Iraq?

The difference in Cultures will never, EVER mix. Understanding each other, is impossible!

Remember that several floors of both WTC buildings were reduced to INCHES in height. Remember what happened..........

snuffypuffer? I'm probably right behind you in having my butt chewed as well.

However, someone has to have THE GUTS to confront this "heck" that has landed in the USA lap. I just hope other countries open their eyes and begin to assist the USA in eliminating the enemy. It will not happen in my lifetime, that's for dang certain. crying.gif

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nancy,

So you would like the western countries to kill all arab's as soon as possible? Good luck...

Whatever everyone is saying now, the reason Bush gave for a war was bull****! They NEVER found weaopons that would jusitfy the actions they have taken. The whole country is a mes and probably, after a year or so the western forces are gon and an even more unstable en extreem government will rise to power in Iraq.

And for Europe supporting them.. well, a lot of countries didn't have a choice, did they? If they weren't helping the big almighty "God is with us and only us" USA, they wouldn't get any help in the future, no funds, nothing. Good politics USA.. It's normal to discuss things and find a good way out of it, at least with your friends you do, but when threat with such things, you are weak.

The war had it's reasons, and it wasn't only oil. Terrorists were a big point, but why not be honest? Just say why you are going into war, not make a nice story up around it..

Odin

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Michael Moore, who is one of the most hated men in America. Michael Moore and 'Bowling for Columbine' represent his biased, left wing, anti-American view on American politics and is not considered fair and balanced.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one mate...when I saw Bowling for Columbine I didn't get that impression. Although he obviously has his own opinions about these issues (as does everyone else), I thought the way he conducted his interviews was fair and he gave ample opportunity for those people to tell their story. There seemed to be quite a few questions that these people couldn't readily answer....

I didn't think he was un-American, just questioning the constitutional right to 'bear arms', which would be his right under the 1st amendment.

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WHOA. stop right there, Sageghost. Michael Moore is not even close to a fair and balanced point of view. he is a total extremist. in fact, i know he staged several incidents in that documentary. its widely reported that the whole getting the gun from the bank thing was staged:

Then there are what we might call artistic lies. "Bowling for Columbine" opens in a branch of the North Country Bank, with Mr. Moore supposedly receiving a free gun in exchange for opening an account. At the end of the scene, he asks a bank employee, "Do you think it's a little dangerous handing out guns in a bank?" before he runs out with the gun in his hand to the beat of a punk rock tune. It is a dazzling opening, full of energy and Strangelovian absurdity. The only problem: It was staged. Commentators have been on Mr. Moore's case about this, some even campaigning to revoke his Oscar, awarded for a genre supposed to be nonfiction. Anthony Zoubeck, a self-described "former Moore fan" who writes for the Illinois State University paper, the Daily Vidette, contacted Helen Steinman, the customer-service representative seen greeting Mr. Moore in the bank. "You can't just come in here and get a gun," Ms. Steinman explained. Mr. Moore "was only supposed to be coming in and pretending to open up a CD. What the girl who opened up the account really told him was that there would be a background check and that he wouldn't get the gun for six weeks."

im not saying i disagree with his views on some things, but i definitely disagree with people who distort the truth to make a point.

here is an interesting link on Michael Moore:

http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110003807

and just a note.... right to bear arms is the second amendment. not that you would have any reason to know that but its just some US civics for ya wink2.gif

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Moore is a zealot, pure and simple.

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and just a note.... right to bear arms is the second amendment.  not that you would have any reason to know that but its just some US civics for ya wink2.gif

I referred to the 1st amendment in relation to his right of free speech about the 2nd amendment, which is the right to bear arms...

Point taken, however, that he used some artistic licence there - I realise there was a six week wait for the gun - but I think the point he was trying to make was the crass incentive used by the bank to get people to open up an account with them. To me that method of promotion is irresponsible. Give them a piggy-bank or something relevant to the nature of the business, you know what I mean?

He may be an extremist to some poeple - but what is it that he is standing for? Gun control isn't it? Surely this would be a step in the right direction? The 2nd amendment was probably very relevant back in 1791 but how relevant is that amendment today? Look at the size of the US armed forces - anyone stupid enough to invade your country (and that is extremely unlikely in my opinion) would be defeated swiftly - therefore is there a need for such widespread gun ownership amongst US citizens? No amount of 'arms' in possession by citizens could have averted the tragedy of those terrorist attacks, for example.

I'm not saying abolish gun ownership altogether. There are perfectly legitimate reasons for gun ownership and I support that wholeheartedly.

Here in Australia I could obtain a licence if I wanted to - but the policies in place ensure I can only own a non-self-loading long-gun (a rifle). Military style automatic weapons are not available, and if I wanted to own a pistol I would need to be in a licenced club.

I'm not saying our policies are perfect (because they aren't). However, Australian national statistics do show the percentage of homicides committed with a firearm in this country has continued along a declining trend since 1969.

In 2001 there were 340 homicides recorded by police in Australia, but I cannot yet quantify the number of homicides committed with a firearm. (source: Aust. Institute of Criminology). As a percentage of the population counted in the 2001 census (18,972,350) this amounts to 0.001% of the population.

One of the issues raised in that documentary seemed to concern the availability of small, automatic, easily concealed weapons, with no practical use (eg hunting) other than to kill people.

I realise this is a very sensitive issue and the views I have stated are merely my opinions - I am in another country after all - but from where I am standing the issue of gun control in the US is something that needs further exploration.

thumbsup.gif

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Okay, Homer, I'll give you that one. But in a speech when one is attempting to justify a war, you'd think they'd want to check their information a little better. At the least it's a very sloppy job. And I'm still waiting for these weapons of mass destruction. Some residue in a rusty barrel doesn't count. And Michael Moore, I saw his Oscar speech, he struck me as a self righteous *******. Not following his drummer.

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nancy,

So you would like the western countries to kill all arab's as soon as possible? Good luck...

Whatever everyone is saying now, the reason Bush gave for a war was bull****!

The war had it's reasons, and it wasn't only oil. Terrorists were a big point, but why not be honest? Just say why you are going into war, not make a nice story up around it..

Odin

blink.gif As I suspected, my butt has now been ROYALLY "chewed." As well, I've been insulted, which is a first for me here at "UM." I must admit, all here are welcome to express their personal opinions. Accusations, however, I do not accept.

I said ZIP about "western countries to kill all Arab's as soon as possible." I did say it is important to "eliminate our enemy" ...... that ENEMY being Terrorists, PERIOD.

I never said a damn thing about supporting or NOT supporting Bush's philosophy OR the reasons the USA WENT to War with Iraq. Odin, it is not up to this ole broad to establish Foreign Policy.... thank God, huh?

I have comments to add, but at the risk of returning insults, I choose not to do so.

Except for an occasional Editorial, I'm outta here. Chicken? Nope.. a Lady? Yes.

Nancy disgust.gif

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Sageghost, while i understand your perspective completely, you would have to live in the US to understand this issue. gun control is a noble thing, but if the government came driving through Alabama collecting guns you would see a civil war the likes never seen on this Earth. people here would never give up their weapons because they believe the government is more of a threat to them than their weapons are. most people would rather die than give up their gun. its that simple.

now, maybe there will come a day when automatic (most already banned) or semi automatic guns are outlawed but i doubt that too. people worry too much about the government and they want these high powered weapons to ensure the government doesn't try anything funny.

i don't agree with these philosophies, im just letting you know they exist. i don't own a gun of any kind.

oh and about the bank giving away a rifle... lots of people collect guns and trade them where i live. if a bank offered a rifle they would get a lot more customers than if they offered a piggy bank. its just the culture.

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Nancy,

It's wasn't meant as an insult..  dontgetit.gif

Odin

Odin...... This THREAD was begun by you back in March 2003.

You may not have intended to insult me, but if you read your response to me... closely then you will realize it is fraught with insults and lack of respect.

The subject of September 11th and Terrorism is a touchy one, for certain.

THAT said, I do not intend to carry this any further. I've thought this through

and........ to my amazement, several Members sent me Personal Messages, asking

that I reconsider my decision to cease this Forum.

Once I read those messages, each...... more than once ... and wiped my eyes as a result of REAL Respect from those Members, I will take their advice.

In order to attempt to retain my sanity, I will however avoid any Threads where you participate. End of speech.

To those who cared enough to contact me? THANK YOU.... You made this old broad

very proud to "Know" you.......... xoxoxoxo wub.gif

Respectfully,

N.

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Well, you don't need to avoid any threads I write in. I will probably won't be writing anything here when a forum member acts that stupid when someone gives his/her opinion and you start to complain about it. Really very, VERY pathetic..

And above all, when the other members (as you say) support her in her action of "woooooh, me is mad, me is leaving, but not for real".

Odin

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Odin, let's not draw this out any further.

I realise you did not intend to offend anyone with what you said, but nevertheless someone did take offense, and it would be best to drop the subject before this gets any more out of hand.

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