Religion, does it divide us.

[MysticStrummer]

Humans love to divide themselves up. Religion is just one of many methods used.

We're all in this together, people, and no one gets out of here alive… except me of course. *flies out the window to fight crime*

[Davros of Skaro]

Even if you consider the idea of it. How can such beliefs divide so deeply. Not only do we deal with racial issues, we also toss in a dose of religious hatred. All because of uneducated beliefs. Those people at their time did not know better. Hell they thought that if someone had been struck by lightning that Zeus was p***ed off at that person. Now we know better. How is it that we can't get past this mountain? I know some of us have. I just find that praying to god and desiring god's love/approval to be like that of an insecure child. "Daddy please love me. I've been good."

It all began with an idea, then turned into something else. The original thought might have been a good one. One that came from trying to figure things out. Then as time passed and it was spread, with people adding to and taking from it. The idea just went wrong. It's like a game of telephone. By the time you get to the last person, the whole things screwed up.

How would you feel if you won a multimillion dollar lottery?

[BlackBearWolf]

The Bible says God has a plan for everyone. That means its Gods plan to send certain people to hell. He chooses this before you are even born because he is all powerful. He creates people knowing they will end up in hell for eternity. These people have no choice but to go to hell because of pre ordaned destiny. There is no free will when it comes to god.

Unless things dont go according to his plan or he is surprised by our decisions. Then he is less powerful.

[eight bits]

Howdy, GmG

Your question is harder than it sounds. I didn't vote.

If you look at the American civil rights movement of two generations ago, mid-century, you find:

- religious leaders in the forefront of needed change,

- despite others who were members of pretty much the same religion advocating literal disunity ("segregation") as a good thing in itself for society,

- the overall goal of the movement was "integration," unity,

- but the actual situation along the way was disunity and struggle, sometimes violent (on both sides, although the religious change agents were committed to nonviolent means of persuasion, and suffered as victims of violence)

Just that one concrete example has religion on both sides, and both disunity (as it played out) and unity (the goal of reform) occurring. And how much of a factor had religion been in making the underlying problem, or in influencing people to join the movement in huge numbers? The resort to violence to resist change was secular decision making, but the religious leaders were familiar with Ghandi's experience that violence was a predictable response to their actions.

And you want to know what the net global contribution of religion is, unity or dis-? Beats me. Good topic, though.

[Frank Merton]

If two people have differing beliefs, whether religious or anything else, it cannot help but divide them, at least to some degree or another.

This is another reason why it is best to avoid believing things and to only have opinions, subject to possible change if good evidence appears.

[+Link of Hyrule]

There are many things that divide us. To use a pretty generic example, I support New South Wales in the State of Origin Rugby League, Psyche101 supports Queensland. That clearly divides us. Yet when I was on my way home from Queensland a couple of days ago, he and I decided to meet for a coffee, and I have to say he's a great guy, friendly and easy to talk to. And this doesn't even go into our vastly different religious and political outlooks on life.

So yes, religion does divide. That's what it's designed to do - define who you are and who is not of the same type as you. That is the very definition of "divide", is it not? But is that a negative? Yes, it can be, groups like ISIS prove that, people who hate others just because they don't believe the same. But most people in the modern world don't take it in this negative way and instead, just like myself and Psyche101 meeting up as friends, look beyond such things and realise that we're just human beings living together on the planet.

[Frank Merton]

Religion should unite, not divide, even if the details of dogma differ. That at least is my view of religion's purpose, and if it doesn't do this it is not good religion.

[+Link of Hyrule]

Religion should unite, not divide, even if the details of dogma differ. That at least is my view of religion's purpose, and if it doesn't do this it is not good religion.

I think that is a very good point. It depends on how one uses the terms "divide" and "unite". As said, anything that defines the parameters of who a person is or what they believe automatically "divides" them into groups. New South Wales Supporters wear blue, Queensland supporters wear maroon. That's a clear division, right there. In another sense, religion isn't supposed to "divide" us in the sense of offering superiority to one group over another. To use an analogy that I'm sure has been well worn over time, religion should be a bridge, not a wall. A bridge opens avenues to interact, a wall closes people off from each other, potentially bringing out the negativity of division that I mentioned (ISIS being one prominent example in the modern world).

[BlackBearWolf]

The Bible specifically states the world will be divided in End times. Christians will be made to denounce thier faith or suffer decapitation. In order for Jesus to return this division needs to happen. Its a wierd catch 22 because alot of Christians yearn for these tribulations so they can see Jesus sooner. If the world becomes peaceful then there is no chance for end times because there will be no battle at Armageddon.

These religious folks Christians and Muslims alike believe its their spiritual duty to be on the right side for the final war.

And the fact we are talking about religions usefulness only fuels thier fire because they believe a secular world is the anti christ.

Because religion is outliving its usfuleness it is in its death throes. People will die for these beliefs because to them it means 70 virgins or streets of gold.

Its all part of a death cult that has been a scurge the last 3000 years.

But large parts of society don't believe in invisible sky people and hopefully have the sense to not pass down these archaic traditions of religion to thier children.

[Rlyeh]

I write this many times on this site, that religion is man made, and to Xeno's thought, perhaps Devil-made. When you study the Bible, God reveals that religion is a man made thing and isn't something God wants for us. God wants a relationship with us, not for us to be labored with traditions, ceremony, etc. If you need references to support this, just Google "What does God say about religion"; you'll find some good info (with Biblical references).

Interesting then that this religious character does the opposite.

[+Sherapy]

Religion should unite, not divide, even if the details of dogma differ. That at least is my view of religion's purpose, and if it doesn't do this it is not good religion.

Incredibly well said!

[BlackBearWolf]

Religion should unite, not divide, even if the details of dogma differ. That at least is my view of religion's purpose, and if it doesn't do this it is not good religion.

what more does a religion need to say than:

Be good To Yourself And Everyone else!

Anything else is just drivle and is causing fighting because of interpretation.

If it gets more complicated than that its not a good religion.

Can you name a perfect or just plain good religion?

[Stubbly_Dooright]

Even if you consider the idea of it. How can such beliefs divide so deeply. Not only do we deal with racial issues, we also toss in a dose of religious hatred. All because of uneducated beliefs. Those people at their time did not know better. Hell they thought that if someone had been struck by lightning that Zeus was p***ed off at that person. Now we know better. How is it that we can't get past this mountain? I know some of us have. I just find that praying to god and desiring god's love/approval to be like that of an insecure child. "Daddy please love me. I've been good."

It all began with an idea, then turned into something else. The original thought might have been a good one. One that came from trying to figure things out. Then as time passed and it was spread, with people adding to and taking from it. The idea just went wrong. It's like a game of telephone. By the time you get to the last person, the whole things screwed up.

The whole 'grapevine' thing, tends to get crisscrossed all the time. I feel the same way you do about the praying thing, but that is what they feel they need to do, they should do it. If they try to get me to do it with them, then I will ridicule them for it, especially if they ridicule me for turning them down. But, I do have my thing, and I have more respect for those who say they'll pray and then nod their heads in appreciation when I say I will think of them or have them in my thoughts, or the usual that is part of my belief.

I guess so, just like I follow the law to stay out of jail.

But, well......... this is how I see it anyways, there is a difference here. The rules of the law, is the provable, and hopefully taught to all. Those other 'rules' that not all are taught, or believed, because they cannot be proven, are just that. And the difference, is how one looks at each, and usually objectively to the second part cannot be true.

I guess after thinking about it religion does divides people, like how different races divides people, or their view on sexual preference, or their political affiliation, or their favorite sports team, or something as simple as wanting to own a firearm for whatever reason, or even their favorite color, kind of all boils down to human nature and the need to overlook that some people might have different thoughts but we feel the need to convince them that their thought or beliefs are wrong and yours or mine are the only correct one's.

I'm not sure I'm reading you right here, are you saying that is something to be taken seriously?

The Bible says God has a plan for everyone. That means its Gods plan to send certain people to hell. He chooses this before you are even born because he is all powerful. He creates people knowing they will end up in hell for eternity. These people have no choice but to go to hell because of pre ordaned destiny. There is no free will when it comes to god.

Unless things dont go according to his plan or he is surprised by our decisions. Then he is less powerful.

This is why I'm apathetic to varying sorts of those who spout stuff, thinking it's going to make an impact. In fact, I'm surprised, a lot of people are not apathetic in the first place. It's like, why bother? *shrugs*

There are many things that divide us. To use a pretty generic example, I support New South Wales in the State of Origin Rugby League, Psyche101 supports Queensland. That clearly divides us. Yet when I was on my way home from Queensland a couple of days ago, he and I decided to meet for a coffee, and I have to say he's a great guy, friendly and easy to talk to. And this doesn't even go into our vastly different religious and political outlooks on life.

Uh yes, and if there is an American look at that, it's little ole me, coming from a Mets family, marrying my hubby, who comes from a Red Sox family! But we luv each other nevertheless.

So yes, religion does divide. That's what it's designed to do - define who you are and who is not of the same type as you. That is the very definition of "divide", is it not? But is that a negative? Yes, it can be, groups like ISIS prove that, people who hate others just because they don't believe the same. But most people in the modern world don't take it in this negative way and instead, just like myself and Psyche101 meeting up as friends, look beyond such things and realise that we're just human beings living together on the planet.

Bingo. I think also, the division, and I'm talking not just religion, but with everything, is probably something we can also learn from each other, and probably it's a small division within a big inclusion of it all.

If everyone was the same, we stagnate, I think.

[Podo]

Religion TRIES to unite us into groups of people who believe in the same imaginary friend. However, the different imaginary friends hate each other, and their followers spend their lives killing and being unpleasant to those who believe in a different imaginary friend.

[BlackBearWolf]

Everyone is the same. We want to eat, sleep,poop, have sex, and have fun. The only thing that divides us is religion and politics.

Religious folks and politicians really believe they got answers and have figured it all out. Thats a huge red flag for me.

[GoldenWolf]

A hypothesis:

The Abrahamic god pitted his religions against one another purposefully, Like c*** fighting or dog fighting.

[XenoFish]

It's more like they fight of who has the right ideology.

[psyche101]

I guess after thinking about it religion does divides people, like how different races divides people, or their view on sexual preference, or their political affiliation, or their favorite sports team, or something as simple as wanting to own a firearm for whatever reason, or even their favorite color, kind of all boils down to human nature and the need to overlook that some people might have different thoughts but we feel the need to convince them that their thought or beliefs are wrong and yours or mine are the only correct one's.

You speak as if relgion is a viable option next to to the observations and gathered data science is built upon. It is not, is an alternative choice to the hard work of learning about our Universe. Religion is the easy option of being given a certain story to believe in as opposed to the hard work of learning.

Just like fairies, one can choose to believe they exist, people with a wider perspective realise this is not the case, yet some people insist that is the case anyway. Two little girls even fooled Sir Arthur Conan Doyle and had him believing fairies were real. People insist relgion is a possible, and even amazingly some consider likely option as to how the Universe and we were brought into existence. Observation and evidence tell us otherwise.

You can choose to believe in relgion, but when you state that something from the bible is true, people will correct you. That is correction of bad data, that is not an "option" either. It is the supported answer - peer review. That does not mean people are forcing you, or in any way pushing you to conform. You can bleat bible verses all day long for the rest of your life, nobody cares, all that matters is that the erroneous data that you produce is corrected. Religion not only got everything creationwise wrong, it continues to force incorrect claims down people's throats from birth. That has to stop, and accountability has to come forward to fix the mess we have made of this world.

[psyche101]

There are many things that divide us. To use a pretty generic example, I support New South Wales in the State of Origin Rugby League, Psyche101 supports Queensland. That clearly divides us. Yet when I was on my way home from Queensland a couple of days ago, he and I decided to meet for a coffee, and I have to say he's a great guy, friendly and easy to talk to. And this doesn't even go into our vastly different religious and political outlooks on life.

So yes, religion does divide. That's what it's designed to do - define who you are and who is not of the same type as you. That is the very definition of "divide", is it not? But is that a negative? Yes, it can be, groups like ISIS prove that, people who hate others just because they don't believe the same. But most people in the modern world don't take it in this negative way and instead, just like myself and Psyche101 meeting up as friends, look beyond such things and realise that we're just human beings living together on the planet.

Gidday Mate

Was my pleasure to meet you in person, thanks for your time stopping by and all, it was a genuine pleasure to meet Annie too. Thanks for the kind works, I assure you that is very much mutual.

I am not sure those divisions really divide us, we like competition but, that brings us together too as we all gather in one place, and can congratulate NSW when they lose.

But I was really thinking of a few years back when I was at State of Origin in Brisbane and had a great night, went to the XXXX brewery first up for dinner and a few, some player got up for speeches, then onto the game and I was in a Sea of Maroon. Right behind the goalposts where Queensland were scoring for the first half with a good mate I worked with. Good game it was, but at one point early on, we fumbled and knocked on, the sea of Maroon was silent, you could hear a pin drop, the in a loud booming voice my mate yells out

GO THE BLUES!!!!!!!

The entire sea of Maroon turned and gave him a death stare, he shrugged and said "Well it's only a game fellas!" and the only people who did not turn back to the game burst into laughter, the mood was good and he was a bit of a star, every time he cheered them on, about 30 blokes would go SHUT UP, and then crack up laughing. And he did too.

Same with my mate who passed away earlier this year, he was a Holden man through and Through, so I was a Ford man, now that he is gone, I couldn't care less.

I find we are often drawn to these things and take opposite side to rin each other and be good mates. I do not think that division so much divides us, as makes us happy to challenge each other. I am not sure of that is unity or division to be honest.

I hope one day we can all just see ourselves as human beings living on the same planet.

Cheers

[+Link of Hyrule]

All good points, Psyche. It could be said then that sport (as an example) "unites through division". But sometimes sport is much more sinister. Let's be stereotypical and take certain fans among the Canterbury Bulldogs (for those not Australian, it's a Rugby League team with a fan-base with a small but vocal and violent minority of supporters - though if I met a Canterbury supporter I would naturally tell him he's a thug, because he wears Canterbury colours). More generally, some games of football/soccer have had games played in empty stadiums because of crowd violence. And though it's fair to say that often these have a racial undertone (clubs with significant ties to certain ethnic immigrants - though they no longer play in the top division in Australia, Sydney Olympic and Marconi Stallions often had violence due to the direct hatred between Serbians and Croatians), the point is that these specific football games become a crucible in which these racial wars continue.

I don't think religion inherently "divides" in the negative sense, though it certainly does provide a sense of belonging and tribal affiliation (much in the same way as a sports team might, though it's not exactly expressed in the same way). But I do agree that when taken to unreasonable extremes, it can.

P.S - I'm not sure I would have the courage to go to Suncorp Stadium wearing a Blues jersey. Wearing a Blues jersey through a Brisbane pub one day a couple of years back when the game was played in Sydney was bad enough.

I hope one day we can all just see ourselves as human beings living on the same planet.

Testify, brother Edited December 21, 2015 by Paranoid Android

[Stubbly_Dooright]

You speak as if relgion is a viable option next to to the observations and gathered data science is built upon. It is not, is an alternative choice to the hard work of learning about our Universe. Religion is the easy option of being given a certain story to believe in as opposed to the hard work of learning.

Just like fairies, one can choose to believe they exist, people with a wider perspective realise this is not the case, yet some people insist that is the case anyway. Two little girls even fooled Sir Arthur Conan Doyle and had him believing fairies were real. People insist relgion is a possible, and even amazingly some consider likely option as to how the Universe and we were brought into existence. Observation and evidence tell us otherwise.

You can choose to believe in relgion, but when you state that something from the bible is true, people will correct you. That is correction of bad data, that is not an "option" either. It is the supported answer - peer review. That does not mean people are forcing you, or in any way pushing you to conform. You can bleat bible verses all day long for the rest of your life, nobody cares, all that matters is that the erroneous data that you produce is corrected. Religion not only got everything creationwise wrong, it continues to force incorrect claims down people's throats from birth. That has to stop, and accountability has to come forward to fix the mess we have made of this world.

Just to start off, I agree with you and the comparison of truth and what a belief could come off as. And I think, I usually debate this too, and say, you cannot say something, that is coming from a source that is weak or unreliable, or really has not evidence to show, is truth and there is no proof of it.

I still get a bit at the phrase, or lines, or something that is saying about people 'choosing' to believe in something. I see it as believing comes from it's own personal evidence. I don't think people can choose to believe, because they want to. In fact, I think those who want to believe, because they are lazy, or scared, or what, are not going to believe in something after a certain time. If they have their own personal facts of something, ( and it correlates to real facts ) despite it being scary or unsettling, will prevail in their outlook. Then I think they deal with it later on in their lives. For me, there are certain aspects of something, that there might not be objective evidence for so all can believe, but it shows enough that I believe that it could happen. I might not be happy with it, but I cannot choose to one hundred percent ignore it, it would be something I have to deal with. I would feel, if I choose to not believe, I would be hurting myself.

Yes, going back to that ole line of thinking I have, that if people go against what they actual feel, and what they force themselves to feel, will hurt them in the end. They are going against themselves, I have found from my own experiences and have that opinion because of it.

But, If I sum up your point here in your post, again I do agree with the meaty parts of it. If someone believes in something, they believe out of personal proof, and they are best to live their own path without interference. If they force that on someone else, and they don't have the evidence or their personal experience, or have the objective evidence against it, then yes, ( and I would see this happening time after time. ) it should be pointed out.

[Stubbly_Dooright]

Gidday Mate

Was my pleasure to meet you in person, thanks for your time stopping by and all, it was a genuine pleasure to meet Annie too. Thanks for the kind works, I assure you that is very much mutual.

I am not sure those divisions really divide us, we like competition but, that brings us together too as we all gather in one place, and can congratulate NSW when they lose.

But I was really thinking of a few years back when I was at State of Origin in Brisbane and had a great night, went to the XXXX brewery first up for dinner and a few, some player got up for speeches, then onto the game and I was in a Sea of Maroon. Right behind the goalposts where Queensland were scoring for the first half with a good mate I worked with. Good game it was, but at one point early on, we fumbled and knocked on, the sea of Maroon was silent, you could hear a pin drop, the in a loud booming voice my mate yells out

GO THE BLUES!!!!!!!

The entire sea of Maroon turned and gave him a death stare, he shrugged and said "Well it's only a game fellas!" and the only people who did not turn back to the game burst into laughter, the mood was good and he was a bit of a star, every time he cheered them on, about 30 blokes would go SHUT UP, and then crack up laughing. And he did too.

Same with my mate who passed away earlier this year, he was a Holden man through and Through, so I was a Ford man, now that he is gone, I couldn't care less.

I find we are often drawn to these things and take opposite side to rin each other and be good mates. I do not think that division so much divides us, as makes us happy to challenge each other. I am not sure of that is unity or division to be honest.

I hope one day we can all just see ourselves as human beings living on the same planet.

Cheers

I have found this post to be very refreshing and beautiful. I wish we all could see things this way, and hopefully learn from each other. I feel, that sports, (even though I personally am not a sports person ) inspires teamwork, partnerships, and such, that I would think everyone would learn from that. Not always happening, but I think examples, such as your work mate, should inspire others.

[Clarakore]

Religion is a recent social construct with a priesthood dependent on codification reaching back only 5000 years or so....

As is we are one and the illusion of I am me and here and you are you and there, the illusion of individuality, of borders, walls, distance and time, does not allow for religion to divide or unite the numeral one.

And as is united or divided is illusion of dualism.

Conversely my religion is highly personal and is designed to unite me with the brotherhood of humanity and sisterhood of all living things. The goddess of thee sea is our mama so of course she sees her children, including those who have made it onto dry land, as hers without division, one family.

Although the brilliant VS Ramachandran explains it as simply our skin filtering out each others thoughts and actions, which without we would not know if it was us or others eating for example, and where our thoughts are ours or others.

[Clarakore]

Belief is dainty but should still be decoupled from dualism regarding right and wrong.

Rumi tells us of a field where right and wrong don't exist and that we should meet there to discuss.

[Clarakore]

I vote off-poll with the missing obligatory third option of "neither" or if allowed I would have selected "both" to get the balance right...

Edited December 21, 2015 by Jessica Christ