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Roman Sword discovered off Oak Island


bubblykiss

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So-called historic investigator J. Hutton Pulitzer and his group of academics from the AAPS (Ancient Artifact Preservation Society)are morons evidently. The Romans were terrible at seafaring (read Cornelius Tacitus, among others) If there is merit to the story, it would be the seafaring nation of Carthage, who would have many Roman swords having skirmished with the Romans over a long period. These idiots couldn't think their way out of a mental paper bag. As for the claim, it is dubious at best and can only be verified if the shipwreck was to be located.

Excellent point about the Carthaginians. The people that were the Phoenicians where we get our alphabet. Even they couldn't get to the Americas without some miracle in my estimation.

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Let me set the history straight. The Romans were at the time unexcelled in shipping and imported vast amounts of things from all over the Mediterranean. Also, their navies easily defeated Carthage.

The notion of Carthaginian sea superiority was true only during the First Carthaginian War. After that the Romans contracted with Corinth to build them a fleet and they defeated the Carthaginian fleets hand down, to the extent Hannibal had to conduct a land war.

Still, this was limited almost entirely to the Mediterranean. The only way an artifact could be found as reported would have been via trade, goods passing from hand to hand, but what the route might have been beggars the imagination.

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Let me set the history straight. The Romans were at the time unexcelled in shipping and imported vast amounts of things from all over the Mediterranean. Also, their navies easily defeated Carthage.

The notion of Carthaginian sea superiority was true only during the First Carthaginian War. After that the Romans contracted with Corinth to build them a fleet and they defeated the Carthaginian fleets hand down, to the extent Hannibal had to conduct a land war.

You are confusing naval/military power with oceanic exploration/navigation. These are two entirely seperate things. The Carthaginian empire was a maritime empire, the Roman empire was not. Carthaginian sailors probably sailed to Britain 500 years before the Romans, and certainly not over land through Europe to the English channel guided by Germanic barbarian informants as the Romans were.

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You are confusing naval/military power with oceanic exploration/navigation. These are two entirely seperate things. The Carthaginian empire was a maritime empire, the Roman empire was not. Carthaginian sailors probably sailed to Britain 500 years before the Romans, and certainly not over land through Europe to the English channel guided by Germanic barbarian informants as the Romans were.

No I'm not. That's an absurd response. The two go together automatically. No one was venturing out into the Atlantic.
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No I'm not. That's an absurd response. The two go together automatically. No one was venturing out into the Atlantic.

Thats a very close minded statement. Quite possibly many people went out into the atlantic. We just don't have any evidence of one returning, otherwise i'm sure it would have made it into written history

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Thats a very close minded statement. Quite possibly many people went out into the atlantic. We just don't have any evidence of one returning, otherwise i'm sure it would have made it into written history

Your response was a pointless effort to show off or something, to create controversy where there was none. Now this. Some people really get me.
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No I'm not. That's an absurd response. The two go together automatically. No one was venturing out into the Atlantic.

Of course they ventured out into the Atlantic. What kind of education did you have? Did you not read? Seriously, read. Here's some stuffs:

Here's a simple one from the Carthaginians themselves. Cornell University kindly breaks the voyage down step-by-step to keep it simple and easy to understand:

https://archive.org/...441847_djvu.txt

Here's another easy one to follow:

World Exploration in Ancient Times By Encyclopaedia Britannica, Inc.

https://books.google... africa&f=false

Here:

http://classics.mit....us/history.html

Here:

https://en.wikipedia...-colonial_times

Here: (page 229-232 to be precise)

https://books.google...torians&f=false

Here:

http://penelope.uchi...trabo/home.html

Aside from Hanno the Explorer, if you are interested look up Himilco the Carthaginian sailing around western Europe, have at it.

Pytheas the Greek also explored Britain, Thule and also sailed to Shetland.(As Cornelius Tacitus notes "Where the sea congealed" - fascinating quote) Pytheas apparently found Britain based on the British tin trade with Phoenicia going back to 1200 BC.

There is also an Assyrian account of Sargon acquiring tin possibly from Britain in 2700 BC, but there it's based on one shard of evidence from one clay tablet so it is not accepted as a possibility by most scholars.

Edited by Jungleboogie
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I would expect more roman artifacts found and displayed in museums in america, if romans actually had trans-oceanic contact to america in the roman era for trade or what not.

If the sword is genuine then you should consider that anyone could have brought the sword to Oak Island through the last 600 years. I need more artifacts to put a theory together.

collections_precolumbian1965_196sm.jpg

About the tv show... hehe, the last episode they went on a wild goose chase about its a mayan treasure all of a sudden, and its on the other end of the island owned by an old grumpy dude. Its all feeling more and more like a tv serie called Lost.

4b6dc918a791bc6724f1e516eaa0ce8f.jpg

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A Viking took it off a Roman, then lost it.

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Of course they ventured out into the Atlantic. What kind of education did you have? Did you not read? Seriously, read. Here's some stuffs:

Here's a simple one from the Carthaginians themselves. Cornell University kindly breaks the voyage down step-by-step to keep it simple and easy to understand:

https://archive.org/...441847_djvu.txt

Here's another easy one to follow:

World Exploration in Ancient Times By Encyclopaedia Britannica, Inc.

https://books.google... africa&f=false

Here:

http://classics.mit....us/history.html

Here:

https://en.wikipedia...-colonial_times

Here: (page 229-232 to be precise)

https://books.google...torians&f=false

Here:

http://penelope.uchi...trabo/home.html

Aside from Hanno the Explorer, if you are interested look up Himilco the Carthaginian sailing around western Europe, have at it.

Pytheas the Greek also explored Britain, Thule and also sailed to Shetland.(As Cornelius Tacitus notes "Where the sea congealed" - fascinating quote) Pytheas apparently found Britain based on the British tin trade with Phoenicia going back to 1200 BC.

There is also an Assyrian account of Sargon acquiring tin possibly from Britain in 2700 BC, but there it's based on one shard of evidence from one clay tablet so it is not accepted as a possibility by most scholars.

Hugging the coast on every voyage.

Don't know about you, but I got what he said about "out into the Atlantic," and it's not following the coast.

Try following the coast to Oak Island.

Harte

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Hugging the coast on every voyage.

Don't know about you, but I got what he said about "out into the Atlantic," and it's not following the coast.

Try following the coast to Oak Island.

Harte

The guy is just trying to show how much smarter he is than anyone else, but he doesn't succeed.

The main point I wanted to make is that Rome came to far exceed anything the Carthaginians did when it came to ocean going technology. To be sure they started out behind and were at first a land power, but Roman adapted the ships to land types of fighting and seriously defeated the Carthaginians at sea.

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Ok first of all, they are currently filming the season 3 of Curse of Oak Island.

Pullizter is the guy they met during season 2 who looks like a complete "comic book archeologist".

He's also secretly behind the show.

In the picture someone posted with the sword, you can see one of the brother who are putting their money into this (they bought parts of the island). Dont remember if it's Martin or Ricky Lagina.

We will probably be able to see all of this during season 3.

It's still a good show, but ill only believe it if they actually find the shipwreck.

last season, they even invited a guy who was certain the ark of the covenant was there...

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*** Hutton has no part of the TV show, no input, absolutely nothing. Also, the Boston newspaper is a small British local newspaper, not from the Boston we know ***

Old Gutton is getting skewered right now, from several different directions. He's trying to put out fires on his Oak Island Facebook page, he's kicking people off left and right that disagree with him, he's sending out lawsuit notices to website bloggers, blaming issues on journalists. The list is HUGE.

If anyone still wants to believe the complete, utter insane horse**** coming from that article, I will leave you with this. Open the first link then the subsequent links and scroll through them.

The world changing revelation :

http://www.bostonsta...ricas-1-7118097

The showing of the original boss back in 2009, found in Britain, now at the British Royal Museum :

http://wyrearchaeolo...s-part-two.html

The sword "found off of Nova Scotia" which seems to have a direct twin from a collection in Germany, and no salt water corrosion after 1500+ years :

http://romanofficer....sGladiusTwo.htm

http://www.designtos...rom=Search&cx=0

http://www.amazon.co...gladiator sword

The petroglyphs, even though they are tempting, just show a Mi'kmaw hunting party. There are a few more around showing similar, the natives used spears quite often for hunting and fishing.

The bushes? They aren't local only to that small section of Nova Scotia. They are found along the Eastern Seaboard, right into Nebraska.

https://en.wikipedia...rberis_vulgaris

The Media grabbed onto this and ran without fact checking, which is becoming more common.

Consistent reports of plagiarism (which has been verified, one of his books took directly from a Wikipedia page which no credit was given), his constant threats of libel against people I know personally and other web denizens willing to speak out, and now this, the blatant obvious 100% irrefutable proof that he just does not give a crap as long as he's getting publicity.

More to read here :

http://www.andywhite...pology.com/blog

http://www.jasoncola...ral-decades-ago

Edited by Bluenose Bulwark
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Meh, I've got a 400 year old Chinese coin in my possession, if I threw it out in my yard and someone finds it 100 years from now, does that mean that the Chinese were here 500 years ago?

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The guy is just trying to show how much smarter he is than anyone else, but he doesn't succeed.

The main point I wanted to make is that Rome came to far exceed anything the Carthaginians did when it came to ocean going technology. To be sure they started out behind and were at first a land power, but Roman adapted the ships to land types of fighting and seriously defeated the Carthaginians at sea.

You seem to make a lot of empirical statements without a shred of evidence.

You are again mixing up military power versus exploration/cartography.

If you have your knickers in a knot about not being as smart as me, well then, try posting evidence to support your claims I would be the first to congratulate you.

A hundred years after the fall of Carthage, the Roman 'navy' was fumbling about the British coast like keystone cops, at the mercy of Atlantic tides causing innumerable losses because the Romans were not familiar with the Atlantic whatsoever. And this was only making the English Channel crossing. The Romans still did not have the ability to navigate around Europe, 100 years after the fall of Carthage, and 400 years after Pytheas. So much for your Roman navigational/cartographical superiority theory.

The Romans also relied on the maps of others. Look at any list of famous ancient cartographers. You will see a pattern. No Romans. p*** poor at navigation and mapmaking. Did you not read the Cornell University transcript of Hanno's journey? He reckoned the latidude of Carthage and Cerne extremely accurately. The Romans did not have the knowledge to do that.

Don't take my word for it. Read Tacitus yourself. If you haven't read Tacitus, Pliny, Livy, Seutonius, Aurelius, Augustus or any of the other Roman authors it begs the question, "Where exactly did you get your information?"

Did you watch a couple History Channel specials?

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Hugging the coast on every voyage.

Don't know about you, but I got what he said about "out into the Atlantic," and it's not following the coast.

Try following the coast to Oak Island.

Harte

Please rent a sailboat and 'hug the coast' to Shetland. Get back to me when you get there, thanks :yes:

Ah, but I'm sure you will say you meant 'hugging the coast means sailing 200 kilometers offshore' :whistle:

In point of fact, I stated that I am skeptical of the claim that the Carthaginians or Romans visited Oak Island. I merely stated the Carthaginians would be far more likely to do it than the Romans, based on the evidence I have provided. Heck, even the Greeks would have had a better shot than the Romans.

Edited by Jungleboogie
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Please rent a sailboat and 'hug the coast' to Shetland. Get back to me when you get there, thanks :yes:

Ah, but I'm sure you will say you meant 'hugging the coast means sailing 200 kilometers offshore' :whistle:

In point of fact, I stated that I am skeptical of the claim that the Carthaginians or Romans visited Oak Island. I merely stated the Carthaginians would be far more likely to do it than the Romans, based on the evidence I have provided. Heck, even the Greeks would have had a better shot than the Romans.

Looking at Goggle maps, it looks like the Shetlands have islands leading to them which are never more then 30 miles apart. Well within visual range since Fair Island (which is roughly in the 60 mile straight between Scotland's northern islands and the Shetlands) is roughly 700 meters high at the highest point.

So no actual need to sail out of sight of land.....

I think what you are saying is true... but only if Oak Island were to be located off Europe, not North America.

Edited by DieChecker
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Aye, coast-hugging means staying within sight of land, not just 200 yards offshore ......

You can easily coast-hug from Rome to Lerwick

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Sounds most unlikely, the only people who did arrive and where capable to reach America were the Vikings. The Romans were not known for going on wild sea voyages. But even if they got thrown off by a violent storm or got lost on some odd reconnaissance trip - I want to see scientific prove of them, and of whatever is left of that alleged Roman Voyage.

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Meh, I've got a 400 year old Chinese coin in my possession, if I threw it out in my yard and someone finds it 100 years from now, does that mean that the Chinese were here 500 years ago?

If there's a History Channel at that time...yes.

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Meh, I've got a 400 year old Chinese coin in my possession, if I threw it out in my yard and someone finds it 100 years from now, does that mean that the Chinese were here 500 years ago?

We actually have an old Chinese coin in the family, age unknown, that my parents turned up in the garden. They used to be used as decorations on vintage sewing baskets.

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The Arch Fantasies podcast recently had a very good episode on the importance of establishing context on artefacts.

Worth a listen, one of the interesting things mentioned was how much of a problem Native artefact collectors are. Very few label where they find their stuff, and in the one hand you have sites that are unknown due to removal of these artefacts, and on the other hand you have collections with artifacts that have stuff that shouldn't be found in that area. It may have been found there, or they could have traded or bought it for their collection.

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