David Silverman: Fighting God

[+DieChecker]

Harmless Militant Atheists....

Edited December 19, 2015 by DieChecker

[Rlyeh]

I don't really understand his obsession with the label 'atheist'. He claims 27% of America is in fact atheist but if people don't define themselves as such, there's actually a fair chance that they are not, and in the sense that he personally sees it. An agnostic considers the answer to be unknown or unknowable so neither believe nor disbelieve in God. A secular (humanistic) Jew may still believe in a higher power or be agnostic, without observing the religious customs.

Many atheists are also agnostic. They aren't mutually exclusive.

[XenoFish]

Boy, He's gonna have a rude awakening when he finds himself dead.....

I love how absolutely certain of someone's fate some people are. When they have no real clue themselves.

[ShadowSot]

I love how absolutely certain of someone's fate some people are. When they have no real clue themselves.

Its passive aggressive. I cant prove I'm right now, but (insert deity and afterlife her) will show them when they reach it.

[Davros of Skaro]

Harmless Militant Atheists....

We will show you a real resurrection when we use our Atheist science and say "Sic em Boys!".

LMAO!

[GlitterRose]

Looks like the publisher was right. The title is provocative and works to get a discussion going. Win for Silverman.

[ShadowSot]

By polling by definition more peoe fit the definition of atheist than self report. At the same time you can't force the label on them.

Part of the reason I don't get involved much with Atheism is one, I am much more into skepticism. To many atheists tend to just be skeptical about one thing. And not very well either.

[GlitterRose]

I disagree with him about agnosticism. I actually manage to be agnostic about many things.

[Davros of Skaro]

By polling by definition more peoe fit the definition of atheist than self report. At the same time you can't force the label on them.

Part of the reason I don't get involved much with Atheism is one, I am much more into skepticism. To many atheists tend to just be skeptical about one thing. And not very well either.

For a very long time I just considered myself nonReligious. I did not think of a label.

The Atheists that hang out in the comment section of certain Youtube channels (Amazing Atheist/Darkmatter 2525) are the worse. People think I'm bad.

[Davros of Skaro]

I disagree with him about agnosticism. I actually manage to be agnostic about many things.

Like Unicorns?

[GlitterRose]

Like Unicorns?

Things we don't actually know about like ghosts, aliens, shadow people, etc.

I would be fine with it if unicorns actually existed somewhere in the universe.

[+and-then]

I know the only reason I would let an innocent be harmed if I could prevent it. That would be that I did not exist.

I can do every bad thing I want then have a deathbed conversion. That's some twisted stuff I tell you what. I rather use my head than tossing it away.

The mercy shown to the TRULY repentant is far from being twisted. I can assure you that there's no faking such a thing. And if he prevented every bad act by his creation then the whole purpose of giving them free will would be lost. Just as we continually hear that "all Muslims don't act or believe that way", it is certain that all humans do not act or behave like ISIS, for example. Those that do have made a choice and unless they have a moment before death where they ask for forgiveness and truly are sorry for what they did then they will be judged for their acts. I think the biggest single reason that most who are anti God - not just unbelievers - is that they want to be the ONLY god of their lives. In your words - to use their OWN head and not be told. The second reason is they need to have to have someone to blame for what they see as injustice in the world. The sad thing is that most of that injustice comes from people "using their own head". Some very great philosophers and scientists have been men of faith and have seen no conflict between the two. While I am definitely no "great" anything, I also see no conflict at all in believing in a Creator and believing in understanding the mechanism of the creation (science).

[Davros of Skaro]

Things we don't actually know about like ghosts, aliens, shadow people, etc.

I would be fine with it if unicorns actually existed somewhere in the universe.

I think shadow people are the new 60.

[GlitterRose]

The mercy shown to the TRULY repentant is far from being twisted. I can assure you that there's no faking such a thing. And if he prevented every bad act by his creation then the whole purpose of giving them free will would be lost. Just as we continually hear that "all Muslims don't act or believe that way", it is certain that all humans do not act or behave like ISIS, for example. Those that do have made a choice and unless they have a moment before death where they ask for forgiveness and truly are sorry for what they did then they will be judged for their acts. I think the biggest single reason that most who are anti God - not just unbelievers - is that they want to be the ONLY god of their lives. In your words - to use their OWN head and not be told. The second reason is they need to have to have someone to blame for what they see as injustice in the world. The sad thing is that most of that injustice comes from people "using their own head". Some very great philosophers and scientists have been men of faith and have seen no conflict between the two. While I am definitely no "great" anything, I also see no conflict at all in believing in a Creator and believing in understanding the mechanism of the creation (science).

Having religion or not having it...neither of these seem to prevent people from committing atrocities. Believing blindly, though, and not allowing for any questioning...that doesn't usually end well.

[Border Collie]

The idea of allowing other people their own views on the matter doesn't seem to have caught on.

[ShadowSot]

I certainly agree that theism does not bar anyone from science or philosophy, though in either I have noticed a good deal of wriggling to have their religion fit.

Of course, at the same time the more educated in philosophy or science, the less likely someone is to be religious.

Frankly heaven is often described as being where there is no sin and no evil, where either there is no free will or there is no desire for those actions. Either that was possible from the get go, or this god is incapable of it.

And there are some rather disturbing implications of several of the beliefs that imply mind wipes or mental manipulation.

[XenoFish]

Let's take this from the religious individuals perspective. Science is the art of understanding the works of god. Now with that statement in mind, if you think about evolution and life itself. To me that seems even more amazing. Of course this kinda voids the idea of a personal god. To be honest I have no idea how anything got started. Hell our universe could be the end results of a black hole. I just don't know. *I'm rambling again *

[Davros of Skaro]

The mercy shown to the TRULY repentant is far from being twisted. I can assure you that there's no faking such a thing. And if he prevented every bad act by his creation then the whole purpose of giving them free will would be lost. Just as we continually hear that "all Muslims don't act or believe that way", it is certain that all humans do not act or behave like ISIS, for example. Those that do have made a choice and unless they have a moment before death where they ask for forgiveness and truly are sorry for what they did then they will be judged for their acts. I think the biggest single reason that most who are anti God - not just unbelievers - is that they want to be the ONLY god of their lives. In your words - to use their OWN head and not be told. The second reason is they need to have to have someone to blame for what they see as injustice in the world. The sad thing is that most of that injustice comes from people "using their own head". Some very great philosophers and scientists have been men of faith and have seen no conflict between the two. While I am definitely no "great" anything, I also see no conflict at all in believing in a Creator and believing in understanding the mechanism of the creation (science).

I can never be repentant to thought Police that I do not even believe in. Sure you'll have those with a guilty conscience with the stacked on fear of death repenting. You will see it as proof, and the miracle of God, meanwhile it's pure Human psyches.

If your God was real it would know that I know the mechanisms behind delusion. It would know that by giving up free will, having faith, get all emotional through humility, and believing would make me accept ANYTHING ridiculous as reality.

It does not matter what degrees one has or does not, we are all fallable to delusion. It's our crazy Monkey Brains for crying out loud.

I'm not antiGod, or in rebellion against God. I do not believe in God. What I'm against is fantasy believed as reality. I'm not my own God, I'm just me, just as you are you.

I'm open to there being a God. The thing is it would be a wise God. Not the blatantly obvious manmade God you worship and expect to be Cloud surfing back here any second now.

Tick! Tock! Tick! Tock!

There's serious problems in the World. You Theists are out of the problem solving thinking because crazy Monkey Brains long ago made up all the answers for you.

Grow up, realize you got yourself out of bad habits, and get educated.

[ShadowSot]

Let's take this from the religious individuals perspective. Science is the art of understanding the works of god. Now with that statement in mind, if you think about evolution and life itself. To me that seems even more amazing. Of course this kinda voids the idea of a personal god. To be honest I have no idea how anything got started. Hell our universe could be the end results of a black hole. I just don't know. *I'm rambling again *

Taken that view, it is to me hard to square a process like evolution with a personal and caring deity.

Evolution requires mutation and death, that the unfit for survival don't reproduce enough for their genes to spread.

Part of the reason you have things like "age of reason" is due to the high amount of infant death in the past. Multiple wives due to the high chance of death in childbirth.

We don't know how the universe began, though there are starting to be some good ideas in physics at the moment.

God is about as likely as universe creating pixies, so why not.

[XenoFish]

Like I mention it void the idea of a personal god. Not only that it's just an idea. One of many. I don't support it fully because no one know how it all got started. So it remain just an idea.

[ShadowSot]

Like I mention it void the idea of a personal god. Not only that it's just an idea. One of many. I don't support it fully because no one know how it all got started. So it remain just an idea.

Sorry, I was agreeing with you.

[FLOMBIE]

Harmless Militant Atheists....

One question: Do you think that atheism was the driving force in these people's life, and that atheism made these people commit their atrocities?

[Grandpa Greenman]

Harmless Militant Atheists....

All Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels did was write books on philosophy and really never actually did anyone any harm. Lenin, Stalin, and Zedong really used a bastardized versions of their philosophy for their own agenda power. It really falls under the logical fallacy of Guilt by Association. If you read his works you find there are many good things he wrote that are used in many societies today, including the US and the UK.

[+Link of Hyrule]

Lenin, Stalin, and Zedong really used a bastardized versions of their philosophy for their own agenda power.It really falls under the logical fallacy of Guilt by Association.

Couldn't that also be said of any atrocities committed by religious people? That they are/were using bastardised versions of their philosophy for their own agenda? And if we're talking "guilt by association" as a fallacy then I certainly wish some folk would get off my back for what people have done in the name of Christianity over the last 1500 years (not saying you are doing this, but it's a common argument against religious folk, as if I am somehow personally responsible for persecuting women during the Salem witch trials, for example).

[eight bits]

PA

If it helps, I don't hold you personally responsible for the deaths of innocents during the Salem witch trials.

It is nevertheless reasonable to observe that a belief-enforcing religion much like yours played a significant role in bringing about that fatal fiasco. However, other fiascoes have played out from secular motives. Arthur Miller's stage play The Crucible, set in Salem, bluntly insists that the term "witch hunt" is justly applied to the hounding of law-abiding people for their fanciful "Communist sympathies" in the playwright's own time.

What does that "however" buy you? Creedal-religions' mandatory and divinely enforced "suspension of disbelief" is not the only way that people in large groups are susceptible to be misled and to behave badly. Granted.

The part I don't get is how that becomes an argument for not calling religion to account when religion has fostered superstition, hatred, intolerance and injustice. In Goya's haunting phrase, the sleep of reason produces monsters.

Storing oily rags in the basement is a fire hazard, and it's surely not the only avoidable household fire hazard. That those rags are a hazard is an argument for getting rid of them. That oily rags aren't the only fire hazard is irrelevant to the merits of tossing those rags out.