Germany shocked by Cologne New Year gang

[stevewinn]

ST. So far it is said that the attackers spoke a pretty good German which indicates they are longer in Germany then a few months. Unlike English, it takes much more time to learn to speak German. Also, by now it is also known that the gathering was started on facebook and that there were young man from North Africa, Kurds, Montenegrians and Albanians. Trust me, in many cases it is not easy to distinguish all of them.

From YA-Amar's link from the Press The Spiegel, one of the morons said to a victim " I am a refugee from Syria, Merkel invited us. You can not do anything about it". Seems rather strange that a refugee from Syria or any real refugee would say that and in plain German.

More likely that this was a regular young man gathering who wanted to have a good NYE, and some idiots used this occasion to molest girls and pickpocket bystanders. This not only happened in Koln but also in Hamburg, Frankfurt, Bielefeld. Hard to believe it was the recent refugees from Syria.

So are you saying this crime has been committed by Germans then? If that's correct why are we in day seven of the investigation and no-one has been arrested? its simple, the authorities cannot identify those involved, Why? The speed of this investigation is very telling indeed - in comparison, a Terrorist attack can happen and within hours the terrorists involved are named, nationality, and pictures hit our TV Screens and yet what took place seven days ago, perpetrated by native Germans if you are correct and we have nothing. Something is not adding up, and i think we can all tell what's going on.

[aztek]

BERLIN: German public broadcaster ZDF has apologised for delays in reporting on a wave of sexual assaults blamed on men of Arab appearance amid accusations Wednesday of media self-censorship of the inflammatory issue.

The rash of attacks and thefts in a New Year’s Eve crowd in the western city of Cologne was only widely covered by national media early this week, after police had initially reported no major incidents.

“Despite the world’s most expensive public broadcaster, countless social media reactions and online newsrooms … it took four long days before national media comprehensively reported on the incidents,” said a commentary on the Meedia service.

“The initial slowness is now being used in some circles to back their claims about the ‘lying press’.”

http://tribune.com.pk/story/1022911/german-broadcaster-sorry-for-slow-reporting-on-mob-assaults/

[FLOMBIE]

So are you saying this crime has been committed by Germans then? If that's correct why are we in day seven of the investigation and no-one has been arrested? its simple, the authorities cannot identify those involved, Why? The speed of this investigation is very telling indeed - in comparison, a Terrorist attack can happen and within hours the terrorists involved are named, nationality, and pictures hit our TV Screens and yet what took place seven days ago, perpetrated by native Germans if you are correct and we have nothing. Something is not adding up, and i think we can all tell what's going on.

Read again what odas said. He said no such thing,

Not every brown, Arab, North African or similar person in Germany is a refugee.

[141]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35248931

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35244865

[stevewinn]

Read again what odas said. He said no such thing,

Not every brown, Arab, North African or similar person in Germany is a refugee.

I have asked Odas to clarify his position - is he stating or implying these attacks were carried out by Germans. - maybe you should actually read what i wrote after all you have quoted me.

[FLOMBIE]

I have asked Odas to clarify his position - is he stating or implying these attacks were carried out by Germans. - maybe you should actually read what i wrote after all you have quoted me.

No, he is not. You misread it. I quote: So far it is said that the attackers spoke a pretty good German which indicates they are longer in Germany then a few months.

He does not state they are German, he states they are longer in Germany than a few months.

[odas]

So are you saying this crime has been committed by Germans then? If that's correct why are we in day seven of the investigation and no-one has been arrested? its simple, the authorities cannot identify those involved, Why? The speed of this investigation is very telling indeed - in comparison, a Terrorist attack can happen and within hours the terrorists involved are named, nationality, and pictures hit our TV Screens and yet what took place seven days ago, perpetrated by native Germans if you are correct and we have nothing. Something is not adding up, and i think we can all tell what's going on.

Are you mishuge? I said that the attackers could be young men who are longer in Deutschland and not recent refugees. That is my opinion based on the reports that they spoke quite good German.

I grew up in Germany. I spend over 20 years there. I was five when I arrived. It took me years to learn German and more years to speak like a German without any accent. Have in mind that I was a kid back then and it was easier then if you are already in your teens to learn all that. I came to Canada at an older age but I learned English very quickly and I have almost no accent when I speak other then people say they sense some German.

That said, of course there is a possibility that some of them are recent refugees caught up in all the new and strange for them. And this is not an excuse. Whoever did tis should be prosecuted and punished.

Edit: Just to clarify my post, It is much more difficult to learn and speak German then English. English can be very well spoken in a matter of a few years while it take forever to learn to speak fluent German.

Edited January 7, 2016 by odas

[stevewinn]

Are you mishuge? I said that the attackers could be young men who are longer in Deutschland and not recent refugees. That is my opinion based on the reports that they spoke quite good German.

I grew up in Germany. I spend over 20 years there. I was five when I arrived. It took me years to learn German and more years to speak like a German without any accent. Have in mind that I was a kid back then and it was easier then if you are already in your teens to learn all that. I came to Canada at an older age but I learned English very quickly and I have almost no accent when I speak other then people say they sense some German.

That said, of course there is a possibility that some of them are recent refugees caught up in all the new and strange for them. And this is not an excuse. Whoever did tis should be prosecuted and punished.

Edit: Just to clarify my post, It is much more difficult to learn and speak German then English. English can be very well spoken in a matter of a few years while it take forever to learn to speak fluent German.

Im still none the wiser, So a report as stated they spoke German, Let me ask it another way so what Nationality do you think these criminals are then?and can you share the link to the report.

Edited January 7, 2016 by stevewinn

[toast]

So are you saying this crime has been committed by Germans then? If that's correct why are we in day seven of the investigation and

no-one has been arrested? its simple, the authorities cannot identify those involved, Why?

Untill today 16 suspects have been determined from pics and vids from private phones but not identified yet, Cologne police does

not provide any further informations.

The speed of this investigation is very telling indeed - in comparison, a Terrorist attack can happen and within hours the terrorists

involved are named, nationality, and pictures hit our TV Screens and yet what took place seven days ago, perpetrated by native

Germans if you are correct and we have nothing. Something is not adding up, and i think we can all tell what's going on.

I think there are at least 3 issues here. 1.) the surveillance cams in front of the train station and the Cologne Dome did not delivered

clear images due to the high number of ppl there and due to the fireworks. 2.) it was the first time such event happened and so the

police was overstrained with that situation and/or did not realized the threats volume. 3.) As the expected number of attackers is

around 60-80 and just 16 have been determined now, I think the police did not published images of these persons yet for the reason

to not allert the others and to make them leave the state/country.

And for 2.), the police chief of Cologne is under heavy flag and I dont think that he will keep his job there very long.

[odas]

Im still none the wiser, So a report as stated they spoke German, Let me ask it another way so what Nationality do you think these criminals are then?and can you share the link to the report.

Oh Boy. What's wrong Steve, buddy? Didn't get your coffee today? Tired? Sleep apnea? I hear you, been there.

The report says north African or middle eastern young men who apparently had a very good knowledge of the German language. No let me try to make it a bit more clear for you:

Recent refugee/immigrant - no good sprechen Sie German.

Refugees/immigrants longer then 2 years in Germany - German good, but less Knoblauch please.

Any clearer or do you want me to draw it stickman style?

[Professor Buzzkill]

Oh Boy. What's wrong Steve, buddy? Didn't get your coffee today? Tired? Sleep apnea? I hear you, been there.

The report says north African or middle eastern young men who apparently had a very good knowledge of the German language. No let me try to make it a bit more clear for you:

Recent refugee/immigrant - no good sprechen Sie German.

Refugees/immigrants longer then 2 years in Germany - German good, but less Knoblauch please.

Any clearer or do you want me to draw it stickman style?

So refugees from the middle east don't speak good German. The attackers did speak good German (according to you).

What is it about Germany that turns good little refugees into a pack of woman raping animals?

Although it seems that the Scandinavians have the same issue, they just keep it out of the media. It's racist to speak the truth these days.

[bmk1245]

The same sort of attack by asylum seekers was planned in Helsinki as well (link in Suomi). google translates rather poorly, nevertheless...

[stevewinn]

Untill today 16 suspects have been determined from pics and vids from private phones but not identified yet, Cologne police does

not provide any further informations.

I think there are at least 3 issues here. 1.) the surveillance cams in front of the train station and the Cologne Dome did not delivered

clear images due to the high number of ppl there and due to the fireworks. 2.) it was the first time such event happened and so the

police was overstrained with that situation and/or did not realized the threats volume. 3.) As the expected number of attackers is

around 60-80 and just 16 have been determined now, I think the police did not published images of these persons yet for the reason

to not allert the others and to make them leave the state/country.

And for 2.), the police chief of Cologne is under heavy flag and I dont think that he will keep his job there very long.

Thanks for that, i pretty much thought this was the state of play, But thought more details would have emerged by now. its good to know im upto date.

Oh Boy. What's wrong Steve, buddy? Didn't get your coffee today? Tired? Sleep apnea? I hear you, been there.

The report says north African or middle eastern young men who apparently had a very good knowledge of the German language. No let me try to make it a bit more clear for you:

Recent refugee/immigrant - no good sprechen Sie German.

Refugees/immigrants longer then 2 years in Germany - German good, but less Knoblauch please.

Any clearer or do you want me to draw it stickman style?

Thanks for your efforts, I thought you had seen evidence in the report you alluded to earlier, which might have shed light on the Nationalities for those involved, especially when you made reference to North African or Middle Eastern. (IE longer than two years in /Germany) I apologise in thinking you knew something when in fact you didn't, im going to have to stop giving people credit. and remember most don't have a clue, as it leads to these misunderstandings.

[questionmark]

So refugees from the middle east don't speak good German. The attackers did speak good German (according to you).

What is it about Germany that turns good little refugees into a pack of woman raping animals?

Although it seems that the Scandinavians have the same issue, they just keep it out of the media. It's racist to speak the truth these days.

Enough German to make themselves understood as the victims have said (In fact there was even one who said in perfect German to a cop " you can't do anything to me, I am Syrian, Merkel invited me" as you can read in the excerpts of the police reports I posted). I also lived in Germany a long time but I only need to open my mouth to be identified as foreign, and that despite that despite the fact that German was one of the languages (of 7) we spoke at home.

[Professor Buzzkill]

Enough German to make themselves understood as the victims have said (In fact there was even one who said in perfect German to a cop " you can't do anything to me, I am Syrian, Merkel invited me" as you can read in the excerpts of the police reports I posted). I also lived in Germany a long time but I only need to open my mouth to be identified as foreign, and that despite that despite the fact that German was one of the languages (of 7) we spoke at home.

My point still stands. Why are there immigrants who have spent a long time in Germany (despite Merkel inviting them fairly recently) who think this behaviour is ok? What are Germans teaching their new arrivals if this behavior only shows up after years in the country?

I would suggest, as with other nations where rape stats have gone through the roof recently, that the vast majority of these sexual attackers are very recent refugees. Maybe aided by others who have been in Germany for longer?

[likwidlite]

Are there any reports of the assailants being Oriental Asian/Aborigine/White European/Black Carribean/South American or are all the reports stating Arab/North African?

[questionmark]

My point still stands. Why are there immigrants who have spent a long time in Germany (despite Merkel inviting them fairly recently) who think this behaviour is ok? What are Germans teaching their new arrivals if this behavior only shows up after years in the country?

I would suggest, as with other nations where rape stats have gone through the roof recently, that the vast majority of these sexual attackers are very recent refugees. Maybe aided by others who have been in Germany for longer?

The new arrivals, that are being the contentious issue her, have not come over the years, they have come within the last 12 months, and most of them in the last 6. Nobody is pointing their fingers at immigrants but at refugees. Which is not quite the same.

[odas]

Thanks for that, i pretty much thought this was the state of play, But thought more details would have emerged by now. its good to know im upto date.

Thanks for your efforts, I thought you had seen evidence in the report you alluded to earlier, which might have shed light on the Nationalities for those involved, especially when you made reference to North African or Middle Eastern. (IE longer than two years in /Germany) I apologise in thinking you knew something when in fact you didn't, im going to have to stop giving people credit. and remember most don't have a clue, as it leads to these misunderstandings.

No problem Steve. Just as I thought you are a reasonable individual. I guess I will stop also defending you from many who called you names, you know what I am talking about. It would not be the first time a made a mistake by thinking that some people are not as they seem.

[odas]

My point still stands. Why are there immigrants who have spent a long time in Germany (despite Merkel inviting them fairly recently) who think this behaviour is ok? What are Germans teaching their new arrivals if this behavior only shows up after years in the country?

I would suggest, as with other nations where rape stats have gone through the roof recently, that the vast majority of these sexual attackers are very recent refugees. Maybe aided by others who have been in Germany for longer?

Listen. Incidents like this happen in Germany since I can think. What is similar is the grabbing and sexual assault of young women. What is different is the nationalities thru the years. In the seventies Italians, Spanish, Yugos and Turks were notorious for that. This is different since it was done in a large scale. Why did this happen? No clue but as far as the reports say alcohol was also a factor since many of the men looked either drunk or on drugs. In my experience, refugees who are longer in Germany are more likely to approach women in this despicable manner then recent refugees. Many jumped right away to conclusion that this was done by the Syrian refugees in mass but it seems more likely it was done by refugees who are in Germany much longer and yes, maybe some recent refugees did take part.

[questionmark]

Listen. Incidents like this happen in Germany since I can think. What is similar is the grabbing and sexual assault of young women. What is different is the nationalities thru the years. In the seventies Italians, Spanish, Yugos and Turks were notorious for that. This is different since it was done in a large scale. Why did this happen? No clue but as far as the reports say alcohol was also a factor since many of the men looked either drunk or on drugs. In my experience, refugees who are longer in Germany are more likely to approach women in this despicable manner then recent refugees. Many jumped right away to conclusion that this was done by the Syrian refugees in mass but it seems more likely it was done by refugees who are in Germany much longer and yes, maybe some recent refugees did take part.

Well, I still think that both a post you made above and the Cologne State Attorney have it right, this was not "spontaneous" but organized, the same pattern happened all over Germany (albeit in smaller scale). In the infamous St. Pauli district (Hamburg) even pimps were defending woman from that dregs of the earth.

And that fits the pattern of some South Eastern European gangs that travel to Germany to commit crimes during mass celebrations and disappear as soon as they are over (a problem Germans been having even with closed borders). I doubt very much that any of the purported "Arabs" not arrested yet are still in Germany.

[odas]

Are there any reports of the assailants being Oriental Asian/Aborigine/White European/Black Carribean/South American or are all the reports stating Arab/North African?

Actually some reports say that there were a variety of foreigners, north African, Arab, Iraqi, Syrian, but also WHITE Europeans from the Balkans. Who all among them was involved directly in the attacks is yet to be released.

[odas]

Well, I still think that both a post you made above and the Cologne State Attorney have it right, this was not "spontaneous" but organized, the same pattern happened all over Germany (albeit in smaller scale). In the infamous St. Pauli district (Hamburg) even pimps were defending woman from that dregs of the earth.

And that fits the pattern of some South Eastern European gangs that travel to Germany to commit crimes during mass celebrations and disappear as soon as they are over (a problem Germans been having even with closed borders). I doubt very much that any of the purported "Arabs" not arrested yet are still in Germany.

Yes, the similarity to what happened in Germany and what was a usual sting operation in the Balkans by organized thieves was too obvious for me. Criminals do no have a nationality or religion. Maybe it was a mix of experienced thieves from the Balkans and north African/middle eastern "apprentices"?

[questionmark]

Yes, the similarity to what happened in Germany and what was a usual sting operation in the Balkans by organized thieves was too obvious for me. Criminals do no have a nationality or religion. Maybe it was a mix of experienced thieves from the Balkans and north African/middle eastern "apprentices"?

I would not be surprised, but it surely changed the pattern a little because mostly those who appeared in public until now used to be minors (as in Germany nobody under 14 can be arrested, only taken in custody -- and that not for every misdemeanor).

[likwidlite]

Now at no point have I said that the crimes had been committed by Refugees (although I have been accused of it). And the truth is I'm not pointing the finger at them now. However, as some on this discussion routinely denied refugee involvement I would like to hear their thoughts on this quote.

“We have knowledge that refugees were among” the group of hundreds of men suspected of encircling, sexually assaulting and robbing dozens of women outside Cologne’s main train station a week ago, DPolG police union chief Ernst Walter told public broadcaster ARD on Friday.

http://www.theaustra...7803705972364d4

Again, I am not personally saying it was refugees, just quoting an outside source which I felt should be brought to the discussion.

My second point is, why do certain members feel it is acceptable to chastise and insult other members of the discussion for mentioning that the perpetrators may be of a certain Ethnicity/Background then freely discuss between themselves how it was in "FACT" (unsourced) people of another Ethnicity. Which I must add they have already made bigoted comments about. The hypocrisy is outstanding.

Edited January 8, 2016 by likwidlite

[bmk1245]

Ministry spokesman Tobias Plate told a news conference federal police had identified 31 people suspected of playing a role in the violence, 18 of whom were in the process of seeking asylum in Germany.

Plate said the vast majority of the 32 criminal acts documented by federal police on the night were tied to theft and bodily injury.

Three were related to sexual assaults, although police had no names tied to these acts.

He said of the 31 people questioned, nine had been Algerian, eight Moroccan, five Iranian, and four Syrian.

Two German citizens, an Iraqi, a Serb and a US citizen were also among those seen to have committed crimes during the night.

Read more