141 Posted January 20, 2016 #1 Share Posted January 20, 2016 For the worldwide Anglican Communion, the world’s largest Protestant denomination, sexuality has become a line in the sand. The Episcopal Church, Anglicanism’s American branch, was suspended on Thursday for three years for its willingness to consecrate same-sex marriages. But the punishment is not expected to dissuade Episcopalian leaders. As Jim Naughton, a communications consultant for the Episcopal Church said, “We can accept these actions with grace and humility but the Episcopal Church is not going back. We can’t repent what is not sin.” But the denomination’s decision should not be interpreted as a theologically orthodox parent lovingly disciplining its rebellious child. Beneath the Anglican Communion’s actions against the Episcopal Church lies selective outrage, with the Episcopal Church being punished for its attempt to interpret doctrine, while unambiguous sins of other leaders have gone unaddressed. The Episcopal Church has been embroiled in controversy over LGBT issues since at least the mid-1970s, when it declared that gay men and lesbians “have a full and equal claim with all other persons upon the love, acceptance, and pastoral concern and care of the Church.” It later moved to accept the ordination of LGBT clergy, even consecrating Gene Robinson as its first openly gay bishop in 2003. http://www.msn.com/en-ae/news/world/the-selective-outrage-of-the-anglican-church/ar-BBopJTT 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Commander Travis Posted January 20, 2016 #2 Share Posted January 20, 2016 It is funny how a couple of lines in one or two books of the ancient Jewish law is so relevant to today's world that Churches get so tremendously worked up about it, isn't it. What about all those other laws that even the most conservative Christian churches recognize are no longer relevant? What happened to Jesus' claim that he "fulfilled" the law, meaning (and I'm sure there are those that would argue) that he effectively drew a line under the old laws, and in the new Kingdom that he promised they didn't sill have to be followed to the letter? Why, for that matter, if it's such a tremendously important issue, did Jesus not say anything at all about it? But then, so many "Christian" churches take hardly any notice at all of anything that Jesus said or taught, do they. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stubbly_Dooright Posted January 20, 2016 #3 Share Posted January 20, 2016 (edited) For the worldwide Anglican Communion, the world’s largest Protestant denomination, sexuality has become a line in the sand. The Episcopal Church, Anglicanism’s American branch, was suspended on Thursday for three years for its willingness to consecrate same-sex marriages. But the punishment is not expected to dissuade Episcopalian leaders. As Jim Naughton, a communications consultant for the Episcopal Church said, “We can accept these actions with grace and humility but the Episcopal Church is not going back. We can’t repent what is not sin.” But the denomination’s decision should not be interpreted as a theologically orthodox parent lovingly disciplining its rebellious child. Beneath the Anglican Communion’s actions against the Episcopal Church lies selective outrage, with the Episcopal Church being punished for its attempt to interpret doctrine, while unambiguous sins of other leaders have gone unaddressed. The Episcopal Church has been embroiled in controversy over LGBT issues since at least the mid-1970s, when it declared that gay men and lesbians “have a full and equal claim with all other persons upon the love, acceptance, and pastoral concern and care of the Church.” It later moved to accept the ordination of LGBT clergy, even consecrating Gene Robinson as its first openly gay bishop in 2003. http://www.msn.com/e...urch/ar-BBopJTT Have I made my utmost warm and exuberant welcome to ya here at the boards, Ya Amar? I'm sorry, I am a bit late on it. Greetings and salutations!!!! I find you another breath of fresh here!!!And thanks for this thread. Now, on to it. I love the line about them not apologizing about something that they see as actions toward those and their actions as not sins. And I find Otto Von Picklehaube ( what a name! ) post interesting on that too. ((Otto? Your pic? Franz Joseph the first? )) (((Welcome to you too.))) I hope the message will be felt, and that those who punish those who are actually loving their neighbor, will see the ... *ahem*.... the error of their ways........................ I think. Edited January 20, 2016 by Stubbly_Dooright 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Sherapy Posted January 20, 2016 #4 Share Posted January 20, 2016 (edited) For the worldwide Anglican Communion, the world’s largest Protestant denomination, sexuality has become a line in the sand. The Episcopal Church, Anglicanism’s American branch, was suspended on Thursday for three years for its willingness to consecrate same-sex marriages. But the punishment is not expected to dissuade Episcopalian leaders. As Jim Naughton, a communications consultant for the Episcopal Church said, “We can accept these actions with grace and humility but the Episcopal Church is not going back. We can’t repent what is not sin.” But the denomination’s decision should not be interpreted as a theologically orthodox parent lovingly disciplining its rebellious child. Beneath the Anglican Communion’s actions against the Episcopal Church lies selective outrage, with the Episcopal Church being punished for its attempt to interpret doctrine, while unambiguous sins of other leaders have gone unaddressed. The Episcopal Church has been embroiled in controversy over LGBT issues since at least the mid-1970s, when it declared that gay men and lesbians “have a full and equal claim with all other persons upon the love, acceptance, and pastoral concern and care of the Church.” It later moved to accept the ordination of LGBT clergy, even consecrating Gene Robinson as its first openly gay bishop in 2003. http://www.msn.com/en-ae/news/world/the-selective-outrage-of-the-anglican-church/ar-BBopJTT Second to last paragraph of the article begins with- "Christians of mutual goodwill can and should have full-throated debates over whether same-sex unions constitute a violation of Christian doctrine and practice." If they were having full throttled debates over pedophilia and how that constitutes a violation of human rights and that they should have a no tolerance policy on that, great, now that is something to discuss, but consenting same sex couples wanting to get married, I'd say frick off and call it a day. They should take a stand on this! Edited January 20, 2016 by Sherapy 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stubbly_Dooright Posted January 21, 2016 #5 Share Posted January 21, 2016 "Frick off and call it a day!" I love that!!! And I agree whole heartily! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted January 22, 2016 #6 Share Posted January 22, 2016 The reformed churches of the reformation movement broke from Catholicism over issues of belief This seems like a similar schism. A church only has authority over those who are willing to accept its authority. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowhive Posted January 23, 2016 #7 Share Posted January 23, 2016 (edited) I think this has shown how out of step the anglican leadership is. To side with the homophobic side of it's church rather than punishing them is, quite frankly, frightening. I heard about this a few days ago and my first thought was how awful it was and how bad it shows the church to be. It just goes to show what I and many others think, that christianity has no concern for LGBT in the slightest. Ugh, religion. On the very same day the Archbishop said this: Justin Welby has apologised for the "hurt and pain" caused by the Anglican Church to the LGBT community. The Archbishop of Canterbury made the comments as he defended the decision to restrict a liberal US branch of the church for allowing same-sex marriage. He said it was ''a constant source of deep sadness that people are persecuted for their sexuality''. Thos words are utterly hollow and meaningless, since his actions certainly don't back them up. Edited January 23, 2016 by shadowhive 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted January 23, 2016 #8 Share Posted January 23, 2016 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robinrenee Posted January 24, 2016 #9 Share Posted January 24, 2016 I still just don't understand WHY any one group of people would expect a religion to change their doctrine to suit the preferences of individuals. If I disagreed with a church doctrine, I would just stay away from that church... and I do.... I disagree with a lot of church doctrine... so .... I don't go to church. Huh? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Sherapy Posted January 24, 2016 #10 Share Posted January 24, 2016 I still just don't understand WHY any one group of people would expect a religion to change their doctrine to suit the preferences of individuals. If I disagreed with a church doctrine, I would just stay away from that church... and I do.... I disagree with a lot of church doctrine... so .... I don't go to church. Huh? My favorite quote from To Kill A Mockingbird comes from from Miss Maudie, who tells Jem (about his Dad, Atticus Finch) "There are some men in this world who were born to do our unpleasant jobs for us. Your father's one of them." (Lee, Chapter 22) http://www.hachettebookgroup.com/titles/harper-lee/to-kill-a-mockingbird/9780446310789/ What you suggest is a way to certainly a way to deal with things, and I don't begrudge your choice, then there are the rare types that will fight for changes whether it is in doctrine, in the culture, or in humanity. Martin Luther and his "95 thesis," Gandhi, ( Be the change you wish to see) Simon Wiesenthal, (Museum of Tolerance) you get he picture. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowhive Posted January 24, 2016 #11 Share Posted January 24, 2016 I still just don't understand WHY any one group of people would expect a religion to change their doctrine to suit the preferences of individuals. If I disagreed with a church doctrine, I would just stay away from that church... and I do.... I disagree with a lot of church doctrine... so .... I don't go to church. Huh? Well it's not as simple as that. Look at the African parts of the anglican church, they're backing laws that call for LGBT to be imprisoned, even killed. Even in western countries whenever LGBT rights get debated the church wades in as well. So church doctrine doesn't effect those that are within the church, but those outside of it. Most LGBT are not part of those churches and yet they have been effected by the teachings of them. So staying away from the churches doesn't free LGBT from the profound negative effects of the doctrine. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robinrenee Posted January 25, 2016 #12 Share Posted January 25, 2016 My favorite quote from To Kill A Mockingbird comes from from Miss Maudie, who tells Jem (about his Dad, Atticus Finch) "There are some men in this world who were born to do our unpleasant jobs for us. Your father's one of them." (Lee, Chapter 22) http://www.hachetteb.../9780446310789/ What you suggest is a way to certainly a way to deal with things, and I don't begrudge your choice, then there are the rare types that will fight for changes whether it is in doctrine, in the culture, or in humanity. Martin Luther and his "95 thesis," Gandhi, ( Be the change you wish to see) Simon Wiesenthal, (Museum of Tolerance) you get he picture. .... Yes, you have a point. I told you I'm a "live and let live" person.... a "go with the flow" ..... a good little Socialist.... hehe 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Sherapy Posted January 25, 2016 #13 Share Posted January 25, 2016 (edited) .... Yes, you have a point. I told you I'm a "live and let live" person.... a "go with the flow" ..... a good little Socialist.... hehe Exactly, you go your way, leave people to theirs, and we need people as you too. Edited January 25, 2016 by Sherapy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LV-426 Posted January 25, 2016 #14 Share Posted January 25, 2016 "Christians of mutual goodwill can and should have full-throated debates over whether same-sex..." Am I the only one childish enough to see a double entendre in there? Probably... At least it wasn't a mass debate *coughs* I'm sorry... I have a strange British sense of humour *hangs head in shame and edges towards the exit* 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stubbly_Dooright Posted January 25, 2016 #15 Share Posted January 25, 2016 "Christians of mutual goodwill can and should have full-throated debates over whether same-sex..." Am I the only one childish enough to see a double entendre in there? Probably... At least it wasn't a mass debate *coughs* I'm sorry... I have a strange British sense of humour *hangs head in shame and edges towards the exit* Wait?! What?! ............................... *light bulb* Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! Get back here you lovely naughty Brit you!!! I think we need more of that! :D ................................... well, that's what I think! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHaYap Posted January 25, 2016 #16 Share Posted January 25, 2016 "Christians of mutual goodwill can and should have full-throated debates over whether same-sex..." Am I the only one childish enough to see a double entendre in there? Probably... At least it wasn't a mass debate *coughs* I'm sorry... I have a strange British sense of humour *hangs head in shame and edges towards the exit* git back in 'ere you .... ~ 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stubbly_Dooright Posted January 25, 2016 #17 Share Posted January 25, 2016 Can't go wrong, when you turn to Benny Hill!!! :D 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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