+Liquid Gardens Posted February 4, 2016 #26 Share Posted February 4, 2016 You can only use evidences to support a claim of knowledge, not of belief, which stands alone, outside of factual ignorance or knowledge. I'm not sure what purpose it serves to apply this definition of belief, it doesn't seem correct, belief doesn't stand alone in the way you are implying. I believe the Super Bowl will be played this Sunday, and the amount of evidence to support that claim is large. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted February 4, 2016 #27 Share Posted February 4, 2016 No. Our lives are meaningless. This is the reality of the situation, as dictated by the current body of evidence (or lack thereof) that is currently available to us. It's not an object of comfort any more than saying "the sky is blue" is an object of comfort. Inconvenient truths always trump beautiful lies. You poor thing .The meaning and purpose of your life is two fold. First, what you determine it to be. But secondly self aware consciousness is an evolved property with incredible potential Our purpose as such entities is to develop that potential as much as we can, because we can. Curiosity conceptual awarenesses awareness of consequence, the abilty to extrapolate and construct our own futures, symbolic thinking ,and other human functions, ALL mean that humans HAVE an inherent point, even when we don't consciously recognise it. But your life will be ten times happier and more exciting if you construct a point to it and then use your life working for that goal. You can deny it all you like but as a human being you have an innate structural purpose in the universe. The universe determined it for you as it evolved you into what you are today. Whether you also chose a personal purpose or point is up to you. Your perception of reality is thus false, and predicated on an inadequate understanding of the nature of the universe and the abilities of humanity. Our purpose,, because we can, is to create, to increase potential, and reshape the universe into something better than nature has done. We begin on ourselves and then begin to shape our local environment and our local future into something better. Eventually we might reshape the galaxy into something better. Personally i am just working on creating a better world. and saving the lives of those ( Human and animal) whom i can and improving the lives of as many others as i can. Why don't you give this a go as well? . Only your mental construct of reality is preventing you from doing so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted February 4, 2016 #28 Share Posted February 4, 2016 (edited) I'm not sure what purpose it serves to apply this definition of belief, it doesn't seem correct, belief doesn't stand alone in the way you are implying. I believe the Super Bowl will be played this Sunday, and the amount of evidence to support that claim is large. You HAVE FAITH the superbowl wil be played because it usually is. You don't have knowledge that it will be There are two sorts of belief which are quite different eg i might believe in a god with no evidences OR i might chose to invest a belief that my wife is faithful despite some" evidences" to the contrary. Thus some creationists invest belief via faith, in creationism despite acknowledging the evidences for evolution. But once you KNOW something exists you cannot logically believe(or disbelieve ) that it exists. For example do you BELIEVE you ate what you did for tea last night or do you KNOW it?. Do you believe the sun can burn your skin, or do you KNOW it. Do you believe you van float in sea water or do you KNOW it ONly things as yet unknowable are susceptible to the construction of beliefs about them, and so, because you can not KNOW the super bowl will happen next week you have a belief using past experience and faith that it will do. Once it happened you cannot ,onger believ it happened or it did not happen because past experience becomes personal knowledge. . Thus we can chose to believe that gravity is a universal constant or, equally legitimately, chose to believe that it is not. We can believe that light is the fastest possible speed in the universe or we can chose not to believe this, because we don't know enough about the universe as yet. BAsically belief is constructed outside of knowledge, and for reasons and purposes not connected to knowledge Belief cannot (logically and rationally) exist once we accumulate enough data through experience to KNOW anything. You don't have enough data to KNOW the superbowl will be on next week so you are free to believe it will (or indeed to believe it will not) and indeed a terrorist attack MIGHT prevent its occurrence. Edited February 4, 2016 by Mr Walker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted February 4, 2016 #29 Share Posted February 4, 2016 No. Our lives are meaningless. This is the reality of the situation, as dictated by the current body of evidence (or lack thereof) that is currently available to us. It's not an object of comfort any more than saying "the sky is blue" is an object of comfort. Inconvenient truths always trump beautiful lies. To lie to oneself is a great crime. Life only has meaning based on the one you give it. Having faith and belief based on facts is wisdom. Having faith based on nothing more that an imaginary being and an endorphin rush. Doesn't make sense. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Sherapy Posted February 4, 2016 #30 Share Posted February 4, 2016 (edited) I'm not sure what purpose it serves to apply this definition of belief, it doesn't seem correct, belief doesn't stand alone in the way you are implying. I believe the Super Bowl will be played this Sunday, and the amount of evidence to support that claim is large. LG, you are wise to doubt this. In argumentation, Facts are the only thing that hold any weight, and beleifs are unustified by nature (unless they become justified beliefs, ( your super bowl example) in which case, they are then facts, and of course it goes without saying anecdotal evidence is too small to hold any weight. This is what is taught is Critical Thinking and Analysis, and Philosophy. Edited February 4, 2016 by Sherapy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pallidin Posted February 4, 2016 #31 Share Posted February 4, 2016 (edited) Thing is, we actually know "squat" about "reality" Sure, we know more than we did 1000, 100 or even 20 years ago... that's how fast science, technology and theoretical physics is advancing. But "reality", in its wholeness of understanding, remains to this day a complete friggin mystery. Edited February 4, 2016 by pallidin 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xYlvax Posted February 4, 2016 #32 Share Posted February 4, 2016 In the simplest way, God is everything.. everything that you see, feel, and sense in every way that is different from this earth. God, what people like to call it and fight over, is the overall 'sense' and deep rooted feeling in yourself of knowing and being okay with everything. It's hard to explain. It's that euphoria, that sense that 'someone else' is watching over you. God is in everything, we are god. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted February 4, 2016 #33 Share Posted February 4, 2016 So God is basically the force? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badeskov Posted February 4, 2016 #34 Share Posted February 4, 2016 I will break one of my fundamental rules, which is not to discuss online religion or politics. But I need to point out something. Two things wrong here. A theory can be formulated before there is evidence for it via an hypothesis. This is simply untrue and one of your usual fallacies. You simply have no clue of what you speak. One cannot progress from a hypothesis to a theory without evidence, it is that simple. Anybody with even the most mediocre knowledge of science would know this, but you have shown yourself rather ignorant of science from what I have read here. So, please, stop making a fool of yourself. Second of course there is a LOT of evidence for the existence of god(s) There is not. There is absolutely none. I have no idea where you got that absolutely ludicrous idea from. I cant comprehend how anyone studying the history of earth, or sociology, or anthropology or psychology can fail to see the evidences for the existence of at least several types of gods, including psychological archetypes and culturally constructed ones . Because you do not know what you are looking at or how to analyze it - that much is evident. There is OF course a theory held by many that gods exist.And another tha tno such gods exist. There is no such theory. So far both have resisted providing conclusive results, by/from what has admittedly been fairly sporadic, and half hearted, scientific investigation and testing. There has been no scientific testing as there is nothing to test. By all means of respect, your ignorance is surpassed by your arrogance only it seems. And before you reply with a Walker wall of text, it will be replied to with a very short post as you obviously have nothing to reply with. Cheers, Badeskov 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy Perry Posted February 4, 2016 Author #35 Share Posted February 4, 2016 (edited) Thanks Podo, XenoFish, Mr Walker, Doug1o29, pallidin, StarMountainKid, Liquid Gardens, Sherapy, and WolvenHeart7 and Badeskov thank each you personally Love Roy Edited February 4, 2016 by Roy Perry 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Sherapy Posted February 4, 2016 #36 Share Posted February 4, 2016 I will break one of my fundamental rules, which is not to discuss online religion or politics. But I need to point out something. This is simply untrue and one of your usual fallacies. You simply have no clue of what you speak. One cannot progress from a hypothesis to a theory without evidence, it is that simple. Anybody with even the most mediocre knowledge of science would know this, but you have shown yourself rather ignorant of science from what I have read here. So, please, stop making a fool of yourself. There is not. There is absolutely none. I have no idea where you got that absolutely ludicrous idea from. Because you do not know what you are looking at or how to analyze it - that much is evident. There is no such theory. There has been no scientific testing as there is nothing to test. By all means of respect, your ignorance is surpassed by your arrogance only it seems. And before you reply with a Walker wall of text, it will be replied to with a very short post as you obviously have nothing to reply with. Cheers, Badeskov Unfortunately, it will fall upon deaf ears, none the less it is a great post very informative and articulate. Thank you for taking the time to post. You have a way of posting that is clear, succinct, and coherent. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pallidin Posted February 4, 2016 #37 Share Posted February 4, 2016 So God is basically the force? Good question. To be sure, "something" is going-on in reality that we simply don't understand. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badeskov Posted February 4, 2016 #38 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Unfortunately, it will fall upon deaf ears, From what I have read here hitherto, I am sure it will. none the less it is a great post very informative and articulate. Thank you, it is very much appreciated. Thank you for taking the time to post. Of course. You have a way of posting that is clear, succinct, and coherent. Aww, now you are really making me blush :blush: Cheers, Badeskov 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Sherapy Posted February 4, 2016 #39 Share Posted February 4, 2016 From what I have read here hitherto, I am sure it will. Thank you, it is very much appreciated. Of course. Aww, now you are really making me blush :blush: Cheers, Badeskov I see you are in California; so am I . 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badeskov Posted February 4, 2016 #40 Share Posted February 4, 2016 I see you are in California; so am I . Yup, just north of LA. Well, right now I am in NYC for business. Cheers, Badeskov 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowSot Posted February 4, 2016 #41 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Mr. Walker is a lot of words with little substance and lots of ego. Isn't there an adage about that? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Sherapy Posted February 4, 2016 #42 Share Posted February 4, 2016 (edited) Yup, just north of LA. Well, right now I am in NYC for business. Cheers, Badeskov Do you know of San Pedro/ Rancho Palos Verdes area? That's where I am (by the beach). Edited February 4, 2016 by Sherapy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badeskov Posted February 4, 2016 #43 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Do you know of San Pedro/ Rancho Palos Verdes area? That's where I am (by the beach). Yup, I know the area. I am in Santa Barbara. Cheers, Badeskov 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Sherapy Posted February 4, 2016 #44 Share Posted February 4, 2016 (edited) Yup, I know the area. I am in Santa Barbara. Cheers, Badeskov I was close to you when I was in Cambria a few months ago; Santa Barbara is beautiful, are you close to the beach? Anyways nice to see a poster from my state! Edited February 4, 2016 by Sherapy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badeskov Posted February 4, 2016 #45 Share Posted February 4, 2016 I was close to you when I was in Cambria a few months ago; Santa Barbara is beautiful, are you close to the beach? I am indeed close to the beach :-) Cheers, Badeskov 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nuclear Wessel Posted February 4, 2016 #46 Share Posted February 4, 2016 I always do enjoy reading your posts, badeskov. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badeskov Posted February 4, 2016 #47 Share Posted February 4, 2016 I always do enjoy reading your posts, badeskov. Thanks NW, I appreciate your kind words. And likewise. Cheers, Badeskov 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Sherapy Posted February 4, 2016 #48 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Mr. Walker is a lot of words with little substance and lots of ego. Isn't there an adage about that? Interestingly, I'm leaving for Florida next Weds. St. Pete's., to see my Dad and my 97 year old granny! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Sherapy Posted February 4, 2016 #49 Share Posted February 4, 2016 I always do enjoy reading your posts, badeskov. I agree, he has a clear, concise, and succinct voice. Hope to see him around here more. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Sherapy Posted February 4, 2016 #50 Share Posted February 4, 2016 I am indeed close to the beach :-) Cheers, Badeskov It's a lovely town! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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