A literal answer from GOD

[Davros of Skaro]

To that I say: Thank you, Jesus! That would be one heck of a ritual to perform. Aren't we lucky we don't have to do these things?!

Thank science.

Here's info about Jesus's dad Yahweh (The Old Testament dude) if interested?

"Yahweh is the national god of the ancient kingdoms of Israel (Samaria) and Judah.[2] His origins are mysterious, although they reach back to the early Iron Age and even the Late Bronze:[3] his name may have begun as an epithet of El, head of the Bronze Age Canaanite pantheon,[4] but the earliest plausible mentions are in Egyptian texts that place him among the nomads of the southern Transjordan.[5]"

In the oldest biblical literature, Yahweh is a typical ancient Near Eastern "divine warrior" who leads the heavenly army against Israel's enemies;[6] he later became the main god of the Kingdom of Israel (Samaria) and of Judah,[7] and over time the royal court and temple promoted Yahweh as the god of the entire cosmos, possessing all the positive qualities previously attributed to the other gods and goddesses.[8][9] By the end of the Babylonian exile (6th century BCE), the very existence of foreign gods was denied, and Yahweh was proclaimed as the creator of the cosmos and the true god of all the world.[9]"

"El, not Yahweh, was the original "God of Israel"—the word "Israel" is based on the name El rather than Yahweh.[25] He was the chief of the Canaanite gods, described as "the kind, the compassionate," "the creator of creatures".[26] He lived in a tent on a mountain from whose base originated all the fresh waters of the world, from where he presided over the Assembly of the Gods with the goddess Asherah as his consort.[26][27] The pair made up the top tier of the Canaanite pantheon;[26]"

"The centre of Yahweh's worship lay in three great annual festivals coinciding with major events in rural life: Passover with the birthing of lambs, Shavuot with the cereal harvest, and Sukkot with the fruit harvest.[39] These probably pre-dated the arrival of the Yahweh religion,[39] but they became linked to events in the national mythos of Israel: Passover with the exodus from Egypt, Shavuot with the law-giving at Sinai, and Sukkot with the wilderness wanderings.[36] The festivals thus celebrated Yahweh's salvation of Israel and Israel's status as his holy people, although the earlier agricultural meaning was not entirely lost.[40]"

"(A number of scholars have also drawn the conclusion that infant sacrifice, whether to the underworld deity Molech or to Yahweh himself, was a part of Israelite/Judahite religion until the reforms of King Josiah in the late 7th century BCE).[42] Sacrifice was presumably complemented by the singing or recital of psalms, but again the details are scant.[43] Prayer played little role in official worship.[44]"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahweh

Edited February 3, 2016 by davros of skaro

[Podo]

I'm not even sure why I'm entertaining some of these comments. I suppose it's because they seem to be coming from intelligent people that may just be lacking basic manners or social etiquette. This ain't my first rodeo folks. Maybe your mental construct of a stereotypical Christian is one where they live under a rock?

This is a discussion forum. If you don't want to discuss the things you say, you shouldn't be here. We don't understand you so we're asking questions to try to understand you, but you're whining when we do so. Seems like you'd have a better time on a blog where you can turn off comments than participating on a discussion forum.

[+Sherapy]

Let me start by saying this forum is by no means "a glimpse into my life". Please don't make assumptions based solely on my commentary here. I am not here to be counseled. I am a VERY independent woman, have a great job, I have a beautiful 22 year old daughter, and I'm a grandma to a precious baby Violet. I don't walk around toting a Bible or spouting off Bible verses to rid people of sin. Additionally, I don't care to explain any of my past or future relationships. The communication here seems to always take a very odd twist and THAT troubles me about you guys. A tiny bit of scripture taken from The Bible, meant for the good of man and do you see what can happen when you start picking it apart?

Yes, you provide info we make inferences, of course we can be in error, so we ask questions for clarity.

You do not have to divulge your personal life, no one is asking that of you.

Yes, we do see how a tiny bit of scripture that you say is meant for the good of man has been shown to not be so good too.

I think many good points have been introduced and are worth considering in any relationship.

It's called critical analysis, not taking things at face value, this section is specifically for this.

If you are looking to have things taken at face value it won't happen in here.

Spirituality and beliefs may be better suited for you, it's more like minds sharing their beleifs.

The social etiquette in this section is you are going to be challenged, you are gonna be asked for your reasons, your evidence, a counter, an argument. And, it is gonna be scrutinized.

It it is not for everyone. You always have a choice, you do not have to stay.

Welcome to Skepticism "versus" Spiritualtiy.

Edited February 3, 2016 by Sherapy

[Podo]

Yes, you provide info we make inferences, of course we can be in error, so we ask questions for clarity.

You do not have to divulge your personal life, no one is asking that of you.

Yes, we do see how a tiny bit of scripture that you say is meant for the good of man has been shown to not be so good too.

I think many good points have been introduced and are worth considering in any relationship.

It's called critical analysis, not taking things at face value, this section is specifically for this.

If you are looking to have things taken at face value it won't happen in here.

Spirituality and beliefs may be better suited for you, it's more like minds haring their beleifs.

The social etiquette in this section is you are going to be challenged, you are gonna be asked for your reasons, your evidence.

It it is not for everyone.

[barbco196]

This is a discussion forum. If you don't want to discuss the things you say, you shouldn't be here. We don't understand you so we're asking questions to try to understand you, but you're whining when we do so. Seems like you'd have a better time on a blog where you can turn off comments than participating on a discussion forum.

No, it's really not a discussion when the participants pick something apart to the point where the original content is no longer recognizable, THAT is a problem. One that needs to be addressed. You ask a question, when you get an answer, you move on.

[Podo]

No, it's really not a discussion when the participants pick something apart to the point where the original content is no longer recognizable, THAT is a problem. One that needs to be addressed. You ask a question, when you get an answer, you move on.

If the answer does not make sense, you ask another question. Many of your answers have created further questions for many of us, so we have asked further questions. If you're not prepared to have the things you say get torn apart, you should not be here. This is what we do, on every forum on this whole website. As Sherapy has said, you're not going to have what you say be taken at face value. We're here to discuss and ask questions and learn. You aren't interested in answering questions, so you should either become interested in answering questions, or go somewhere else.

[barbco196]

If I thought for a moment I was being asked a question for clarity, I wouldn't hesitate. You can see in my posts, I have no problem doing just that. Unfortunately, that just isn't the motivating factor behind the questions.

[barbco196]

If the answer does not make sense, you ask another question. Many of your answers have created further questions for many of us, so we have asked further questions. If you're not prepared to have the things you say get torn apart, you should not be here. This is what we do, on every forum on this whole website. As Sherapy has said, you're not going to have what you say be taken at face value. We're here to discuss and ask questions and learn. You aren't interested in answering questions, so you should either become interested in answering questions, or go somewhere else.

Let me ask you then: What are you trying to learn by asking me about scripture or my faith?

[XenoFish]

Maybe your mental construct of a stereotypical Christian is one where they live under a rock?

I suppose it a similar concept in which Christians view pagans and those who practice the occult arts. When the indoctrination make then think that anyone who's not one of them is a devil worshipping deviant.

No, it's really not a discussion when the participants pick something apart to the point where the original content is no longer recognizable, THAT is a problem. One that needs to be addressed. You ask a question, when you get an answer, you move on.

One question lead to another and another and another. This is how a discussion works. You told us "Your Faith is Fact". Your faith is an opinion not a fact, there is no evidence to prove that your faith is true outside of your own little sphere of influence. Just as my faith is only fact based upon my subjective experience of it. And when you work magick you experience a lot of weird coincidences in life. Does this make the Elder Gods actually beings? No. They are mental constructs. Ones that are just a means of conveying a message to my subconscious. Just a God or Jesus does the same thing.

If your faith helps you make it through the day. That's all well and good. I would think as a consciously thinking individual you'd be able to pick the right fruits from the tree of knowledge. The bible is not a good book, it's full of war, hate, genocide, incest, and so much more. I read it once and it made me a hell of a lot depressed and give me a self depreciation complex that only metaphysical practices got rid of.

If you need religion to be a good person, were you every really a good person to being with?

[GoldenWolf]

If a bigoted and oppressive piece of scripture can be deconstructed into the negative thing that it is so easily that everyone but you can see it, I think you should think a bit on that piece of scripture. Being subservient to your husband helps one person and one person only: the man.

Unless you wish to have the burden of free thought and decision-making lifted from you, of course. If the woman does not want to use her brain, I guess it could be "for the good", I suppose

https://www.youtube....h?v=mbSF0CkAJkg

Edited February 3, 2016 by Mystic Crusader

[XenoFish]

Let me ask you then: What are you trying to learn by asking me about scripture or my faith?

Insight would be a good word to choose. Podo is probably like me. Wanting to understand why people believe in the things you do. At least this is my guest. Not that I'm psychic are anything.

[Podo]

If I thought for a moment I was being asked a question for clarity, I wouldn't hesitate. You can see in my posts, I have no problem doing just that. Unfortunately, that just isn't the motivating factor behind the questions.

This graphic was in relation to the way Sherapy delivered her questions to you, and my being impressed at their forthright and direct nature. It was not directed at you at all, other than by being in relation to a question that was directed at you.

Let me ask you then: What are you trying to learn by asking me about scripture or my faith?

As I have asked several times, I want to understand what you think you get out of obedience. I've also asked questions in regards to the limits of your professed wish for obedience, and how you plan on telling what is and is not abusive in the context of your christian mythological paradigm. I won't restate everything, you can read my previous responses perfectly fine. I don't understand why anyone would wish to willingly become subservient to someone else, unless, as I mentioned previously, they actively do not want to have any responsibility or active thoughts in their lives. My intent, since you are asking me to spell it out for you, is to understand why you have what is to me such a warped and negative belief.

[+Sherapy]

No, it's really not a discussion when the participants pick something apart to the point where the original content is no longer recognizable, THAT is a problem. One that needs to be addressed. You ask a question, when you get an answer, you move on.

We are looking to challenge ourselves to really understand why we think then things we do, why we value the things we do, we want to hear from as many viewpoints as possible, where you see this as uncomfortable, we see it as interesting and I personally have come away richer for the contributions.

It's argumentation, it's debate, it's meant to push you, get you out of your comfort zone, challenge yourself, know why you think the things you do, many of us seek to have merit/integrity in the views we advocate, we call each other out on our BS, and it's fun, and we learn so much from each other. I do, I am honored to be in the company of these posters, even the ones I dislike and dislike me. My haters have been my greatest teachers!

It is unnerving at first; I have been you, we all have, I still get challenged, but I want to be challenged, I want to assume positions I have put a lot of thought into and this section helps me see my biases, refine my thinking, marshall out my thoughts, and show me my errors in my thinking, it keeps me honest with myself and inspires me to change my mind when appropriate, to have the courage to change, to see in a broader way to be humble, to be patient, to keep my education current . I am a mom just like you, I want my kids to see an example of a person who puts for the effort to think things through, who says I don't know when I don't know and who says these are my thoughts, or that is a great question, or this is what works for me, but you should question and think for yourself first and foremost.

Edited February 3, 2016 by Sherapy

[Podo]

Insight would be a good word to choose. Podo is probably like me. Wanting to understand why people believe in the things you do. At least this is my guest. Not that I'm psychic are anything.

Oh you. You just get me, y'know?

[XenoFish]

Oh you. You just get me, y'know?

I am your spirit animal after all.

[+Sherapy]

Let me ask you then: What are you trying to learn by asking me about scripture or my faith?

For me, I want to know are you credible, integrity matters to me, do you hold up to scrutiny, do you see other points of view, do you say you are wrong when you are, what reasons do you put forth. Are you inclusive or divisive. I don't care if you are religious, I want to hear about it, most of my friends are religious I just care that you are fair, and understand that your path is just one path and not the only one and I seek to understand you, because in understanding you-- I hopefully can find a way 0, contribute in a way to build a bridge instead of a wall, and this isn't always the case ( to be honest) but it's my ideal, and I know this sounds cliche. Lol

Yet, this is what works for me and it will be different depending on the poster you ask.

Edited February 3, 2016 by Sherapy

[XenoFish]

For me, I want to know are you credible, integrity matters to me, do you hold up to scrutiny, do you see other points of view, do you say you are wrong when you are, what reasons do you put forth. Are you inclusive or divisive. I don't care if you are religious, I want to hear about it, most of my friends are religious I just care that you are fair, and understand that your path is just one path and not the only one.and I seek to,understand you because in understanding you I hopefully can find a way to build a bridge instead of a wall, and this isn't always the case but it's my ideal, and I know this sounds cliche. Lol

Yet, this is what works for me and it will be different depending on the poster you ask.

Pretty much this.

[Davros of Skaro]

Let me start by saying this forum is by no means "a glimpse into my life". Please don't make assumptions based solely on my commentary here. I am not here to be counseled. I am a VERY independent woman, have a great job, I have a beautiful 22 year old daughter, and I'm a grandma to a precious baby Violet. I don't walk around toting a Bible or spouting off Bible verses to rid people of sin. Additionally, I don't care to explain any of my past or future relationships. The communication here seems to always take a very odd twist and THAT troubles me about you guys. A tiny bit of scripture taken from The Bible, meant for the good of man and do you see what can happen when you start picking it apart?

Oops wrong thread...

Edit: For the curious here's the post.

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=289473&st=120#entry5762795

Edited February 3, 2016 by davros of skaro

[XenoFish]

I'll let y'all get a little bit inside my head.

I follow the psychological model of magick. Which basically state that it's all in my head.

https://www.llewellyn.com/blog/2012/04/how-magick-works/

Read down to the black box psychological explanation.

Magick and Confirmation Bias.

http://kitschchaos.com/blog/occult-magic-belief-and-confirmation-bias/

Just read this single page.

https://books.google.com/books?id=Qpg5CgAAQBAJ&pg=PT81&lpg=PT81&dq=magick+and+confirmation+bias&source=bl&ots=fiKPuYjdv8&sig=-4S4csNEMxqty7uSzoouxwa6p_k&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj5i42rz9zKAhUC4iYKHZpJBUEQ6AEIWjAJ#v=onepage&q=magick%20and%20confirmation%20bias&f=false

[barbco196]

I suppose it a similar concept in which Christians view pagans and those who practice the occult arts. When the indoctrination make then think that anyone who's not one of them is a devil worshipping deviant.

One question lead to another and another and another. This is how a discussion works. You told us "Your Faith is Fact". Your faith is an opinion not a fact, there is no evidence to prove that your faith is true outside of your own little sphere of influence. Just as my faith is only fact based upon my subjective experience of it. And when you work magick you experience a lot of weird coincidences in life. Does this make the Elder Gods actually beings? No. They are mental constructs. Ones that are just a means of conveying a message to my subconscious. Just a God or Jesus does the same thing.

If your faith helps you make it through the day. That's all well and good. I would think as a consciously thinking individual you'd be able to pick the right fruits from the tree of knowledge. The bible is not a good book, it's full of war, hate, genocide, incest, and so much more. I read it once and it made me a hell of a lot depressed and give me a self depreciation complex that only metaphysical practices got rid of.

If you need religion to be a good person, were you every really a good person to being with?

I appreciate the comments. I am sorry you see The Bible that way and it's unfortunate so many others feel the same. The Old Testament is not an easy read but it lays the foundation for The New Testament and why Jesus came. Did you read it through its entirety? The New Testament brings most people peace and a strong message of love. I have also made it very clear that I don't subscribe to any 'religion'. Jesus never called himself or any one of his disciples a Christian. I've also stated that I haven't always believed. Most of my life, I was an UNbeliever. I was also a good person. Getting to know God has only brought a deeper understanding of humanity, a sense of peace, and more compassion into my life. I make no apologies for my faith being FACT. Yes, fact for me.

[XenoFish]

So you have an interpersonal relationship with your concept of god? If so then that's all well and good. All you had to say that it was a FACT for you.

Many of us have be in contact with harsher element of religion. People who take the word of 'god' as a literal truth. Spiritual I could believe anything I wished, because I know that it is not a 'truth'.

I actually do this, it keeps my mind and imagination working. Sometimes I even make threads about them.

Edited February 3, 2016 by XenoFish

[+Sherapy]

I appreciate the comments. I am sorry you see The Bible that way and it's unfortunate so many others feel the same. The Old Testament is not an easy read but it lays the foundation for The New Testament and why Jesus came. Did you read it through its entirety? The New Testament brings most people peace and a strong message of love. I have also made it very clear that I don't subscribe to any 'religion'. Jesus never called himself or any one of his disciples a Christian. I've also stated that I haven't always believed. Most of my life, I was an UNbeliever. I was also a good person. Getting to know God has only brought a deeper understanding of humanity, a sense of peace, and more compassion into my life. I make no apologies for my faith being FACT. Yes, fact for me.

It sounds as if you gave adopted the literalist view for yourself, and who can argue with you think "for you" it brought you more compassion, and a sense of peace.

My best friend in real time picked up the bible in her teens and for the first time ever found a message of love, it gave her a message of love, she was profoundly abused by a drug addict mother, she was literally fending for herself at the age of 6 and her world view was incredibly bitter.

She never says or would say that another person was missing out on anything, she maintains that the path one is on is what they make of it and love can be found in many places, not just the bible.

Just curious have you explored the scholarly and academic view of christianity also?

How has he bible helped you better understand humanity?

Edited February 3, 2016 by Sherapy

[barbco196]

This graphic was in relation to the way Sherapy delivered her questions to you, and my being impressed at their forthright and direct nature. It was not directed at you at all, other than by being in relation to a question that was directed at you.

As I have asked several times, I want to understand what you think you get out of obedience. I've also asked questions in regards to the limits of your professed wish for obedience, and how you plan on telling what is and is not abusive in the context of your christian mythological paradigm. I won't restate everything, you can read my previous responses perfectly fine. I don't understand why anyone would wish to willingly become subservient to someone else, unless, as I mentioned previously, they actively do not want to have any responsibility or active thoughts in their lives. My intent, since you are asking me to spell it out for you, is to understand why you have what is to me such a warped and negative belief.

I answered those questions. Just because you "don't understand" doesn't mean the question wasn't answered. You don't have agree with me, I wouldn't expect someone without faith to 'understand'. It's just a deep sense that no matter what happens, it's going to be okay. It's having a really bad day and at the end of that day I ask God to help bring me peace and understanding and I can close my eyes, knowing it will be okay. He is always there when I need help. Even when I'm alone, I'm not lonely. He has given me the gift to understand the people around me at such a deep level to where I can connect almost instantly with anyone. Can you imagine praying for something and it happens? I can. That's my faith.

[Podo]

I answered those questions. Just because you "don't understand" doesn't mean the question wasn't answered. You don't have agree with me, I wouldn't expect someone without faith to 'understand'. It's just a deep sense that no matter what happens, it's going to be okay. It's having a really bad day and at the end of that day I ask God to help bring me peace and understanding and I can close my eyes, knowing it will be okay. He is always there when I need help. Even when I'm alone, I'm not lonely. He has given me the gift to understand the people around me at such a deep level to where I can connect almost instantly with anyone. Can you imagine praying for something and it happens? I can. That's my faith.

Sure, but it means that I'm going to ask further questions to gain clarification. Just because you answered it doesn't mean the person listening understands, and it certainly doesn't mean that the person listening can't or shouldn't seek clarification for unclear points or answers. This goes both ways, as you can see. Where did you answer what you hope to get out of obedience? Because I don't see a direct answer to that anywhere.

I can imagine praying for something and it happening, sure. I do it every Friday when I play as a Cleric in my gaming group's Pathfinder campaign. Just because I can imagine it does not mean I think it is real, though; I can imagine plenty of things that aren't real. If you think your prayers have an effect on the world, that's all well and good, provided you don't try to push that belief on others, or parade it as being factually true.

[+Sherapy]

I answered those questions. Just because you "don't understand" doesn't mean the question wasn't answered. You don't have agree with me, I wouldn't expect someone without faith to 'understand'. It's just a deep sense that no matter what happens, it's going to be okay. It's having a really bad day and at the end of that day I ask God to help bring me peace and understanding and I can close my eyes, knowing it will be okay. He is always there when I need help. Even when I'm alone, I'm not lonely. He has given me the gift to understand the people around me at such a deep level to where I can connect almost instantly with anyone. Can you imagine praying for something and it happens? I can. That's my faith.

And yet you are having trouble connecting with us, hmmm, interesting.