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Nagel_ovel

A literal answer from GOD

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Mr Walker

While its nice to have a break from being the target of the ridicule, sarcasm, and nasty forms of disbelief, which imply (and sometimes overtly state) that any believer must be intellectually retarded, it is the same old same old, Just a new target. Wanna be an athiest because it makes you feel good or intellectually superior? Fair enough but don't assume everyone else wants to be one, or can be one, or would be happy being one. And don't assume believers are all hateful, misogynistic, stupid, enslaved, brainwashed, racist, sexist, slave keeping bigots, either. :innocent:

My wife is an absolute believer and yet the most liberated woman I know. She does as she chooses to do in everything, although she bases her actions on what she thinks god would like her to do, out of love for god, and is her own woman in everything.

Edited by Mr Walker
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LV-426

Wives are told to "obey their husband" *snip* Sounds reasonable to me. IF I were to ever get married, I'd be okay with it.

Hear that? That's the sound of Emmeline Pankhurst turning in her grave...

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Stubbly_Dooright

Brainwashed? Did you not read the comment I made earlier in this thread? I came to believe in God all by my lonesome. So, unless God is responsible, I'm going to say my mind is free of brainwashing. Regarding 'being a slave to my husband': That's not what The Bible says. Wives are told to "obey their husband" and husbands are told to "honor their wives". Sounds reasonable to me. IF I were to ever get married, I'd be okay with it.

Even if your husband is a cruel abusing man? Would you be ok about it then?

I not only quite aware of husbands who abuse their wives ( I have seen husbands abused by their wives too. It's rare, but it does happen ) I have unfortunately been witnessed to it and cannot do anything about it. Lived next to it, and was not aware until I went into my bedroom to get something, ( military housing most of the time has townhouse, or row housing type houses, ) I heard the definite sounds of a man beating the crap out of his wife, and heard her screaming. :( I don't think she thinks it was a good idea. In fact, she couldn't even speak to any not well known man. I'm not kidding. When the UPS guy would come around to deliver packages, he had to come next door to deliver it to us and he told me, he would see her in the house hiding, and knew he was there knocking on the door. When women knocked, like I would to bring the package over, she would then open the door. I can tell how humiliating it was for her.

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Podo

The sarcasm could be squelched. When I say "I understand what it takes to create life..." I am implying that it is a very complex task. I think you understood that though.

I take a person's words as what they are, considering tone does not factor into text. When someone says "I understand what it takes to create life" then I take it to mean that they "understand what it takes to create life," which is a very lofty claim. If you don't want to be misunderstood, be more specific with what you write.

And the sarcasm could be squelched, but it won't be. It acts up in the presence of arrogance. Funny how that works, really.

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Podo

Brainwashed? Did you not read the comment I made earlier in this thread? I came to believe in God all by my lonesome. So, unless God is responsible, I'm going to say my mind is free of brainwashing. Regarding 'being a slave to my husband': That's not what The Bible says. Wives are told to "obey their husband" and husbands are told to "honor their wives". Sounds reasonable to me. IF I were to ever get married, I'd be okay with it.

You would willingly surrender your freedom to a man, and obey him unquestioningly? That's...well, I hope you don't end up with a violent person, then. Women's rights include the right to choose an abusive relationship, I suppose.

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barbco196
if your husband is a cruel abusing man? Would you be ok about it then?

I not only quite aware of husbands who abuse their wives ( I have seen husbands abused by their wives too. It's rare, but it does happen ) I have unfortunately been witnessed to it and cannot do anything about it. Lived next to it, and was not aware until I went into my bedroom to get something, ( military housing most of the time has townhouse, or row housing type houses, ) I heard the definite sounds of a man beating the crap out of his wife, and heard her screaming. :( I don't think she thinks it was a good idea. In fact, she couldn't even speak to any not well known man. I'm not kidding. When the UPS guy would come around to deliver packages, he had to come next door to deliver it to us and he told me, he would see her in the house hiding, and knew he was there knocking on the door. When women knocked, like I would to bring the package over, she would then open the door. I can tell how humiliating it was for her.

....or even if your husband was Sasquatch and refused to shave his beard? That is as far-fetched for me as what you wrote. I would obey my husband AND he will honor me. Let's not add hypotheticals.

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barbco196

You would willingly surrender your freedom to a man, and obey him unquestioningly? That's...well, I hope you don't end up with a violent person, then. Women's rights include the right to choose an abusive relationship, I suppose.

I wouldn't consider that surrendering my freedom. The man I marry will understand what the scripture means to God.

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Podo

....or even if your husband was Sasquatch and refused to shave his beard? That is as far-fetched for me as what you wrote. I would obey my husband AND he will honor me. Let's not add hypotheticals.

But would you obey him even if he was not honouring you? If he becomes a tyrant, will you still submit, like your deity demands? Or would you stand up for yourself and leave the abusive relationship?

I wouldn't consider that surrendering my freedom. The man I marry will understand what the scripture means to God.

But...but what if he does not? That's a real possibility. If he doesn't treat you with respect, are you still going to obey him? I could never unquestioningly obey a boyfriend/husband; my relationships are equality or nothing.

Edited by Podo
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Stubbly_Dooright

....or even if your husband was Sasquatch and refused to shave his beard? That is as far-fetched for me as what you wrote. I would obey my husband AND he will honor me. Let's not add hypotheticals.

Excuse me?!?!?!? :unsure2:

hypotheticals?!?!

Far-fetched?!

How do you know, he will honor you? How do you know, you will pick the guy, that won't abuse you. Have you considered the situations where men do not show their abusive behavior until later, or give a good impression that they don't and then change just like that: http://speakoutloud.net/intimate-partner-abuse/male-perpetrators-domestic-violence/jekyll-and-hyde

Eva Lundgren, who interviewed 40 Norwegian couples found that the male abusers used “controlled switching” strategies of punishment and comfort. Some men comfort and care for their partner after causing harm. They switch between being the comforting Dr. Jekyll and the punishing Mr. Hyde.

If you find my examples far-fetched, then your world is a little bit sheltered than mine. Have you considered the possibility of being killed by a husband.

http://www.americanbar.org/groups/domestic_violence/resources/statistics.html

Of females killed with a firearm, almost two-thirds were killed by their intimate partners. The number of females shot and killed by their husband or intimate partner was more than three times higher than the total number murdered by male strangers using all weapons combined in single victim/single offender incidents in 2002.

I also waited on a lady, whose husband shot and killed her and then killed himself. I even remember the day, when after helping her out on something associated with what we sell, her husband eventually came in to pick her up, and I can clearly sense the brewing anger in him.

It was a few months later their murder/suicide hit the news.

I had told you, in my recent post, I 'witnessed' domestic abusive acts myself. You don't believe that I did?

I really do not think you can be one hundred percent sure your husband wont be this to you. I think that you are in a very very sheltered world, if you think this. If not, you're in denial. :no:

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barbco196

But would you obey him even if he was not hoNuring you? If he becomes a tyrant, will you still submit, like your deity demands? Or would you stand up for yourself and leave the abusive relationship?

But...but what if he does not? That's a real possibility. If he doesn't treat you with respect, are you still going to obey him? I could never unquestioningly obey a boyfriend/husband; my relationships are equality or nothing.

Good questions. This is the part where I get to share the perks of my faith. I'm in my early 40's and I've never been married. I want to have a husband someday but refuse to settle. If a man comes into my life, enriches my life, and there is mutual love and respect, then I would love to become his wife. My faith reassures me, gives me complete confidence, that God will give me nothing less than a perfect man for me.

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barbco196

Excuse me?!?!?!? :unsure2:

hypotheticals?!?!

Far-fetched?!

How do you know, herelatiinshiou? How do you know, you will pick the guy, that won't abuse you. Have you considered the situations where men do not show their abusive behavior until later, or give a good impression that they don't and then change just like that: http://speakoutloud....jekyll-and-hyde

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If you find my examples far-fetched, then your world is a little bit sheltered than mine. Have you considered the possibility of being killed by a husband.

http://www.americanb...statistics.html

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I also waited on a lady, whose husband shot and killed her and then killed himself. I even remember the day, when after helping her out on something associated with what we sell, her husband eventually came in to pick her up, and I can clearly sense the brewing anger in him.

It was a few months later their murder/suicide hit the news.

I had told you, in my recent post, I 'witnessed' domestic abusive acts myself. You don't believe that I did?

I really do not think you can be one hundred percent sure your husband wont be this to you. I think that you are in a very very sheltered world, if you think this. If not, you're in denial. :no:

Please tell me how this conversation turned into the mess you just wrote? Let me straighten it out because the path you are taking is just silly. I'm not married. I'll never be in an abusive marriage. Do NOT assume I'm in the dark regarding domestic violence. I'm not. I've been more than just a witness. If you have any questions regarding spirituality/skepticism, I'll be happy to address them. If not, take your silly statements elsewhere.

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Podo

Good questions. This is the part where I get to share the perks of my faith. I'm in my early 40's and I've never been married. I want to have a husband someday but refuse to settle. If a man comes into my life, enriches my life, and there is mutual love and respect, then I would love to become his wife. My faith reassures me, gives me complete confidence, that God will give me nothing less than a perfect man for me.

I just don't get where the obedience comes from. What do you get out of that? I'd never want my significant other, male or female, to obey me. I want them to challenge me, to push me, to contribute to my life in a positive way. I want them to have their own ideas and thoughts, and to tell me I'm being an idiot if I'm being an idiot. None of that is possible if one party is obedient to the other.

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Sherapy

I just don't get where the obedience comes from. What do you get out of that? I'd never want my significant other, male or female, to obey me. I want them to challenge me, to push me, to contribute to my life in a positive way. I want them to have their own ideas and thoughts, and to tell me I'm being an idiot if I'm being an idiot. None of that is possible if one party is obedient to the other.

Exactly, and on the flip side if I was seeking a partner, ( married 19 years) I'd want a guy that had his own ideas, thoughts, sense of self, recognized himself as an equal, stood up for the things he wants, was adept at communicating and self aware, etc.

The idea of obey is so outdated, I wasn't aware anyone thought in those terms anymore.

A partnership is about the couple involved, what they do or don't do to nurture the relationship, what they decide is best for their relationship. I am no fan of being mandated to honor generic vows, a one size fits all marriage template with obedience heading the list.

Edited by Sherapy
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Stubbly_Dooright

Please tell me how this conversation turned into the mess you just wrote?

You believed you will obey your husband no matter what. You think it's ok.

I asked you even if he was abusive.

You said, you wont let that happen.

I'm pointing out that you really do not that much control over another person like that. You can easily be taken in by someone, who can show you their true personality later on. The experiences and the links are not a mess, but reality that could happen.

In a way, it seems you are avoiding answering my question to you on obeying a husband who is abusive, by not believing the situations that I know does happen.

Let me straighten it out because the path you are taking is just silly.
You see it as silly. I see as a nasty fact of life.
I'm not married. I'll never be in an abusive marriage.
You don't have to be married to understand such relationships. And how do you know you can predict you will never be in a abusive relationship? I'm sure, if you do know, there are hell a lot of women, ( men too I bet ) who have been in such relationships, would really like to know.
Do NOT assume I'm in the dark regarding domestic violence. I'm not. I've been more than just a witness.
I couldn't tell. You didn't seem to me, to have an understanding of it and it's chances of happening.
If you have any questions regarding spirituality/skepticism, I'll be happy to address them.
Well, I am asking such questions regarding spirituality/skepticism. This is in regard of the spiritual tone of how one should obey their husband. I wondered if how you would do that, if in an abusive relationship. I really thought you would have a reflective thought on that and answer. I didn't realize you would be in denial about such realistic situations and one's religious point of view on it. In fact, it would concern me if you would approve of that too. Did take me by surprise, that you are denying the reality of it.
If not, take your silly statements elsewhere.

They are not silly. They are serious questions and linked situations that realistically could happen. I wonder, if you are that grounded on your religious views, how well would you survive with them under very real situations.

Now, with your latest couple of posts, I am very worried for you.

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Sherapy

Please tell me how this conversation turned into the mess you just wrote? Let me straighten it out because the path you are taking is just silly. I'm not married. I'll never be in an abusive marriage. Do NOT assume I'm in the dark regarding domestic violence. I'm not. I've been more than just a witness. If you have any questions regarding spirituality/skepticism, I'll be happy to address them. If not, take your silly statements elsewhere.

I think Sharon brings in great points, as you are giving the impression you don't think for yourself, not just by Sharon, but many posters are asking you questions because of the things you are posting for example: when you say things like:

"my faith is fact," ( barbco)

" My faith reassures me gives me complete confidence God will bring me nothing less the a perfect man" these two comments imply you don't put much time into thunking things through for yourself, that you rely on outside authorities to do it for you. You may not and of course I can be wrong, but it's your posts that are the cause for concern, IMO.

Then you go on to say you have been more "than a witness to domestic abuse," ( barbco) IMO it implies you have been a victim of it. That is what I'd seek to rule out and ask for the sake of clarity, in all fairness.

"I would obey my husband" ( barbco); I have been married 19 years and I would not nor be expected to submit to the authority of my husband, I am an adult and think and decide things for myself. We would discuss things and come to the best possible strategy for the situation.

"I would never be in an abusive situation "( barbco) indicates to me you may not look at the world realistically, and especially since you make a strong point that to be aware of domestic violence is ridiculous. I must say I raised an eyebrow too, of course we could be wrong.

In ninth grade health class, young teens are now taught how to look for signs of violence in either sex, how to have measures in place to protect oneself from harmful situations. Do you know what they are?

We all know we can be wrong so we are asking you questions, but I have to say I am concerned about you too.

Edited by Sherapy
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Stubbly_Dooright

In ninth grade health class young teens are now taught how to look for signs of violence in either sex, how to have measures in place to protect oneself from harmful situations. Do you know what they are?

Very good questions here. I am glad you brought this up. I do hope that we all have the way to notice such signs. Unfortunately, the signs sometimes doesn't show, ( well, what I have noticed in my travels anyway ) up right away. I like to think there is more things that can be taught.

Still, my question I feel, is a good one to reflect on. Plus, to 'obey', and that expect someone to 'honor' just like that, doesn't sound very equal, very partnership like. In which, that wouldn't make a husband and wife team, it makes for a master and slave situation. There can not be any mutual love from that, I feel. :yes:

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LV-426

My faith reassures me, gives me complete confidence, that God will give me nothing less than a perfect man for me.

God doesn't decide what kind of man you'll get, you do. And to be blunt if you enter into a relationship with such naivety and willingness to be subservient, you'll likely learn that the hard way.

It isn't just atheists who learn about life the hard way. Every day, all around the world, people of faith are both the victims and perpetrators of abuse.

I don't want to knock your faith, if it brings something positive to your life, but you also have to live in reality and accept that nobody is perfect.

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Aftermath

I was listening to music and thinking about God so I posted on my social media " I wonder what God's faith is." And God answered me!!! When I mentally tuned into the music that was playing, the song "I Won't Give Up" by Jason Mraz was playing!! God LITERALLY answered me in song! Please listen to the song before u comment!

On the night of 15-Jan, I prayed:

ME: "God, what do you call me?"

GOD: "My son."

Then, God spoke: "Just come back to me. Stay in the light."

(Galatians 4:6-7)

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barbco196

You believed you will obey your husband no matter what. You think it's ok.

I asked you even if he was abusive.

You said, you wont let that happen.

I'm pointing out that you really do not that much control over another person like that. You can easily be taken in by someone, who can show you their true personality later on. The experiences and the links are not a mess, but reality that could happen.

In a way, it seems you are avoiding answering my question to you on obeying a husband who is abusive, by not believing the situations that I know does happen.

You see it as silly. I see as a nasty fact of life. You don't have to be married to understand such relationships. And how do you know you can predict you will never be in a abusive relationship? I'm sure, if you do know, there are hell a lot of women, ( men too I bet ) who have been in such relationships, would really like to know. I couldn't tell. You didn't seem to me, to have an understanding of it and it's chances of happening. Well, I am asking such questions regarding spirituality/skepticism. This is in regard of the spiritual tone of how one should obey their husband. I wondered if how you would do that, if in an abusive relationship. I really thought you would have a reflective thought on that and answer. I didn't realize you would be in denial about such realistic situations and one's religious point of view on it. In fact, it would concern me if you would approve of that too. Did take me by surprise, that you are denying the reality of it. They are not silly. They are serious questions and linked situations that realistically could happen. I wonder, if you are that grounded on your religious views, how well would you survive with them under very real situations.

Now, with your latest couple of posts, I am very worried for you.

No, I don't think you are worried. I think you are just being argumentative for no reason. I assure you, IF I find myself in a relationship that I feel threatens my safety or well-being (physically, mentally, or spiritually) I would end the relationship.

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Sherapy

....or even if your husband was Sasquatch and refused to shave his beard? That is as far-fetched for me as what you wrote. I would obey my husband AND he will honor me. Let's not add hypotheticals.

Now, your example is far fetched, but to look out for your personal safety yourself and have some awareness of what that means in real time and plan for it as a single woman seems just good common sense. Otherwise, you can demonstrate and advocate gullibility and as LV and Sharon say you can set yourself up to be a sitting duck. There are a lot of people in this world that would exploit your naivety. For whatever, this is worth to you of course. It's not about faith it's about being smart with your faith.

Edited by Sherapy
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Sherapy

No, I don't think you are worried. I think you are just being argumentative for no reason. I assure you, IF I find myself in a relationship that I feel threatens my safety or well-being (physically, mentally, or spiritually) I would end the relationship.

Well how would you know is what I'd ask you?

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barbco196

I think Sharon brings in great points, as you are giving the impression you don't think for yourself, not just by Sharon, but many posters are askiegotistitions because of the things you are posting for example: when you say things like:

"my faith is fact," ( barbco)

" My faith reassures me gives me complete confidence God will bring me nothing less the a perfect man" these two comments imply you don't put much time into thunking things through for yourself, that you rely on outside authorities to do it for you. You may not and of course I can be wrong, but it's your posts that are the cause for concern, IMO.

Then you go on to say you have been more "than a witness to domestic abuse," ( barbco) IMO it implies you have been a victim of it. That is what I'd seek to rule out and ask for the sake of clarity, in all fairness.

"I would obey my husband" ( barbco); I have been married 19 years and I would not nor be expected to submit to the authority of my husband, I am an adult and think and decide things for myself. We would discuss things and come to the best possible strategy for the situation.

"I would never be in an abusive situation "( barbco) indicates to me you may not look at the world realistically, and especially since you make a strong point that to be aware of domestic violence is ridiculous. I must say I raised an eyebrow too, of course we could be wrong.

In ninth grade health class, young teens are now taught how to look for signs of violence in either sex, how to have measures in place to protect oneself from harmful situations. Do you know what they are?

We all know we can be wrong so we are asking you questions, but I have to say I am concerned about you too.

Let me start by saying this forum is by no means "a glimpse into my life". Please don't make assumptions based solely on my commentary here. I am not here to be counseled. I am a VERY independent woman, have a great job, I have a beautiful 22 year old daughter, and I'm a grandma to a precious baby Violet. I don't walk around toting a Bible or spouting off Bible verses to rid people of sin. Additionally, I don't care to explain any of my past or future relationships. The communication here seems to always take a very odd twist and THAT troubles me about you guys. A tiny bit of scripture taken from The Bible, meant for the good of man and do you see what can happen when you start picking it apart?

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Podo

Well how would you know is what I'd ask you?

This is a very good question. It's one thing to say "I'll never let it happen" but it is quite another to know the signs and what to look for, rather than hiding behind the naive belief that your faith will somehow protect you.

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Podo

Let me start by saying this forum is by no means "a glimpse into my life". Please don't make assumptions based solely on my commentary here. I am not here to be counseled. I am a VERY independent woman, have a great job, I have a beautiful 22 year old daughter, and I'm a grandma to a precious baby Violet. I don't walk around toting a Bible or spouting off Bible verses to rid people of sin. Additionally, I don't care to explain any of my past or future relationships. The communication here seems to always take a very odd twist and THAT troubles me about you guys. A tiny bit of scripture taken from The Bible, meant for the good of man and do you see what can happen when you start picking it apart?

If a bigoted and oppressive piece of scripture can be deconstructed into the negative thing that it is so easily that everyone but you can see it, I think you should think a bit on that piece of scripture. Being subservient to your husband helps one person and one person only: the man.

Unless you wish to have the burden of free thought and decision-making lifted from you, of course. If the woman does not want to use her brain, I guess it could be "for the good", I suppose :hmm:

Edited by Podo
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barbco196

If a bigoted and oppressive piece of scripture can be deconstructed into the negative thing that it is so easily that everyone but you can see it, I think you should think a bit on that piece of scripture. Being subservient to your husband helps one person and one person only: the husband.

If a bigoted and oppressive piece of scripture can be deconstructed into the negative thing that it is so easily that everyone but you can see it, I think you should think a bit on that piece of scripture. Being subservient to your husband helps one person and one person only: the husband.

I'm not even sure why I'm entertaining some of these comments. I suppose it's because they seem to be coming from intelligent people that may just be lacking basic manners or social etiquette. This ain't my first rodeo folks. Maybe your mental construct of a stereotypical Christian is one where they live under a rock?

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