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Nagel_ovel

A literal answer from GOD

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Sherapy

Sure, but it means that I'm going to ask further questions to gain clarification. Just because you answered it doesn't mean the person listening understands, and it certainly doesn't mean that the person listening can't or shouldn't seek clarification for unclear points or answers. This goes both ways, as you can see. Where did you answer what you hope to get out of obedience? Because I don't see a direct answer to that anywhere.

I can imagine praying for something and it happening, sure. I do it every Friday when I play as a Cleric in my gaming group's Pathfinder campaign. Just because I can imagine it does not mean I think it is real, though; I can imagine plenty of things that aren't real. If you think your prayers have an effect on the world, that's all well and good, provided you don't try to push that belief on others, or parade it as being factually true.

I'd agree Podo, I have missed a lot of reasons myself. Maybe we just missed it, eh?

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XenoFish

I answered those questions. Just because you "don't understand" doesn't mean the question wasn't answered. You don't have agree with me, I wouldn't expect someone without faith to 'understand'.

So because we don't have the same faith we are somehow ignorant?

It's just a deep sense that no matter what happens, it's going to be okay.

This is called confidence.

It's having a really bad day and at the end of that day I ask God to help bring me peace and understanding and I can close my eyes, knowing it will be okay.

A simple reassurance technique.

He is always there when I need help. Even when I'm alone, I'm not lonely. He has given me the gift to understand the people around me at such a deep level to where I can connect almost instantly with anyone.

Yet you seem to have trouble understanding us.

Can you imagine praying for something and it happens? I can. That's my faith.

It's confirmation bias. You just shift your mental filter to see what you unconsciously want to see. Magick 101.

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GoldenWolf

It sounds as if you gave adopted the literalist view for yourself, and who can argue with you think "for you" it brought you more compassion, and a sense of peace.

My best friend in real time picked up the bible in her teens and for the first time ever found a message of love, it gave her a message of love, she was profoundly abused by a drug addict mother, she was literally fending for herself at the age of 6 and her world view was incredibly bitter.

She never says or would say that another person was missing out on anything, she maintains that the path one is on is what they make of it and love can be found in many places, not just the bible.

Just curious have you explored the scholarly and academic view of christianity also?

How has he bible helped you better understand humanity?

Sad but true :no:

Hebrews 12:29

For our God is a consuming fire.

out_of_frying_pan.gif

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Sherapy

Indeed, I was thinking it's simply inner contentment, I honesty think It comes with age anyways. Lol

And, I too was thinking confirmation bias.

I have been winning the lottery scratchers as of late and it is real easy to think I have a knack for picking winners, but this is only as long as I exclude all the times I don't win.

Which in the big scheme I have lost way more then I have ever won, and hell I have caught myself spinning Walkies thinking wow, I might have something here, then I remind myself it's one of the flaws of the brain to create patterns where there are none. And we can fall prey to it a lot, it takes work to stay on top of it.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

Edited by Sherapy
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XenoFish

Indeed, I was thinking it's simply inner contentment, I honesty think It comes with age anyways. Lol

And, I too was thinking confirmation bias.

I have been winning the lottery scratchers as of late and it is real easy to think I have a knack for picking winners, but this is only as long as I exclude all the times I don't win.

Which in the big scheme I have lost way more then I have ever won, and I hell I have caught myself thinking wow, I might have something here, then I remind myself it's one of the flaws of the brain to create patterns where there are none.

Pretty much how it all works. You're just changing the way you think. Since our subjective reality is largely a matter of perspective, just flip the switches.

alan-moores-quotes-7.jpg

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GoldenWolf

I answered those questions. Just because you "don't understand" doesn't mean the question wasn't answered. You don't have agree with me, I wouldn't expect someone without faith to 'understand'. It's just a deep sense that no matter what happens, it's going to be okay. It's having a really bad day and at the end of that day I ask God to help bring me peace and understanding and I can close my eyes, knowing it will be okay. He is always there when I need help. Even when I'm alone, I'm not lonely. He has given me the gift to understand the people around me at such a deep level to where I can connect almost instantly with anyone. Can you imagine praying for something and it happens? I can. That's my faith.

They prayed, and prayed, and prayed, and prayed, and prayed some more.

holocaust-victims.jpg

output_33TSqW.gif

Edited by Mystic Crusader
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XenoFish

God did not rescue them. People did and yet god was given the credit.

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barbco196

And yet you are having trouble connecting with us, , interesting.

Not surprising to me at all. I am having trouble connecting to you BECAUSE of my understanding. I believe in God. You don't. I'm really OK with that, are you?

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XenoFish

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-human-beast/201207/the-security-blanket-concept-religion

We all have our own security blankets. That come with pro's and con's. Just be sure to remain sane when wrapped in them. Do not forget that you don't always need one either.

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barbco196

They prayed, and prayed, and prayed, and prayed, and prayed some more.

holocaust-victims.jpg

And? That's between those individuals and God. Let them ask God, "why?"

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XenoFish

Not surprising to me at all. I am having trouble connecting to you BECAUSE of my understanding. I believe in God. You don't. I'm really OK with that, are you?

Then you have no ability to understand other because your beliefs cloud your mind? At least that's what I'm sensing. This is a very unfortunate wall.

And? That's between those individuals and God. Let them ask God, "why?"

Wow! And people think I'm cold hearted.

Edited by XenoFish
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GoldenWolf

And? That's between those individuals and God. Let them ask God, "why?"

Riiiiiiggggghhhhhhttttttt!!!

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back to earth

While its nice to have a break from being the target of the ridicule, sarcasm, and nasty forms of disbelief, which imply (and sometimes overtly state) that any believer must be intellectually retarded, it is the same old same old, Just a new target. Wanna be an athiest because it makes you feel good or intellectually superior? Fair enough but don't assume everyone else wants to be one, or can be one, or would be happy being one. And don't assume believers are all hateful, misogynistic, stupid, enslaved, brainwashed, racist, sexist, slave keeping bigots, either. :innocent:

My wife is an absolute believer and yet the most liberated woman I know. She does as she chooses to do in everything, although she bases her actions on what she thinks god would like her to do, out of love for god, and is her own woman in everything.

Its a bit like saying its nice that all your workers in your factory are not complaining to anymore .

Dude ! They all walked out !

rofl !

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back to earth

....or even if your husband was Sasquatch and refused to shave his beard? That is as far-fetched for me as what you wrote. I would obey my husband AND he will honor me. Let's not add hypotheticals.

I obeyed my wife without even considering the reciprocal honour ... she was a stalwart 6'3" German !

yes darling .... whatever you say darling .... :unsure2:

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Mr Walker

Even if your husband is a cruel abusing man? Would you be ok about it then?

I not only quite aware of husbands who abuse their wives ( I have seen husbands abused by their wives too. It's rare, but it does happen ) I have unfortunately been witnessed to it and cannot do anything about it. Lived next to it, and was not aware until I went into my bedroom to get something, ( military housing most of the time has townhouse, or row housing type houses, ) I heard the definite sounds of a man beating the crap out of his wife, and heard her screaming. :( I don't think she thinks it was a good idea. In fact, she couldn't even speak to any not well known man. I'm not kidding. When the UPS guy would come around to deliver packages, he had to come next door to deliver it to us and he told me, he would see her in the house hiding, and knew he was there knocking on the door. When women knocked, like I would to bring the package over, she would then open the door. I can tell how humiliating it was for her.

That is entirely the MANS fault and being the one with power (even in this day and age) his responsibility. The other half of the biblical equation is that a man shall love/cherish honour and respect his wife in al things, ( This is in addition to/ from the general rule about loving others as yourself, and treating them as you would want to be treated)

Whatever the reason the woman should either leave or force the husband to get professional help. Society must structure itself so women have the power and independence to be able to freely make such decisions without fear of physical or financial harm. That includes educating children from birth in the values, ethics, and moralities surrounding this issue. Women need to learn also as children that they are valued for themselves and do not need a husband, or other male, to validate their worth. I have sheltered the victims of such abuse and also negotiated entrance to refuges for them. Apart from child abuse, I think it is the worst, and most widespread, form of human abuse, since slavery was made illegal

Edited by Mr Walker

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Sherapy

Then you have no ability to understand other because your beliefs cloud your mind? At least that's what I'm sensing. This is a very unfortunate wall.

Wow! And people think I'm cold hearted.

Geez, I too was thinking when she said God has given her more compassion, now I wonder what she meant.

I obeyed my wife without even considering the reciprocal honour ... she was a stalwart 6'3" German !

yes darling .... whatever you say darling .... :unsure2:

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

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Sherapy

That is entirely the MANS fault and being the one with power (even in this day and age) his responsibility. The other half of the biblical equation is that a man shall love/cherish honour and respect his wife in al things, ( This is in addition to/ from the general rule about loving others as yourself, and treating them as you would want to be treated)

Whatever the reason the woman should either leave or force the husband to get professional help. Society must structure itself so women have the power and independence to be able to freely make such decisions without fear of physical or financial harm. That includes educating children from birth in the values, ethics, and moralities surrounding this issue. Women need to learn also as children that they are valued for themselves and do not need a husband, or other male, to validate their worth. I have sheltered the victims of such abuse and also negotiated entrance to refuges for them. Apart from child abuse, I think it is the worst, and most widespread, form of human abuse, since slavery was made illegal

Comment Retracted.

Edited by Sherapy
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XenoFish

Geez, I too was thinking when she said God has given her more compassion, now I wonder what she meant.

Seems to be a running theme among those of certain faiths. God is love and don't judge me and it's not my problem. While this isn't a universal truth it seems to be a predominate mindset.

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Mr Walker

I just don't get where the obedience comes from. What do you get out of that? I'd never want my significant other, male or female, to obey me. I want them to challenge me, to push me, to contribute to my life in a positive way. I want them to have their own ideas and thoughts, and to tell me I'm being an idiot if I'm being an idiot. None of that is possible if one party is obedient to the other.

Different people have different needs and requirements for happiness, The bible also says that a couple should not be, "unequally yoked" IE tha t a couple should work out if they re compatible psychologically/emotionally before they marry. But if a woman needs abuse to be happy then i would respectfully tell her she needs some counselling

There ARE people who gain pleasure from pain and I can't impose my values on them .

The obedience clause is a structural mechanism to keep a marriage working long term. If a couple are disagreeing; fighting and have no mechanism to resolve disputes then the marriage will not last. The bible assumes a marriage is for life and thus supplies a mechanism to best ensure this, Today with marriages being much shorter, the mechanisms are only needed for those who WANT a long (Lifetime) marriage

Both my wife and i view our marriage views as moral, ethical, and legal promises, in a binding contractual agreement between us and god and our families. I promised to love, respect, honour and support my wife. She promised to love respect honour and obey me. But being smart (she is a woman, after all) she has an out. Her duty of obedience to god is greater than her duty of obedience to me, so she wouldn't obey me if i told her to do something she saw as wrong or harmful to herself or another. She is in control of all things to do with home and family, while i am responsible for all thing like earning money or interacting with institutions and outside agencies. She is really annoyed that modern institutions like banks centrelink (agency responsible for all govt pensions and unemployment etc) and utility companies insist SHE come in and deal with them or speak with them on the phone because she thinks I should be doing all that, and have the worry responsibility for them, as part of my promise to care and provide for her. .

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Sherapy

Seems to be a running theme among those of certain faiths. God is love and don't judge me and it's not my problem. While this isn't a universal truth it seems to be a predominate mindset.

I guess we will have to clarify what she means by more compassion, now that she walks with God.

Edited by Sherapy
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Mr Walker

God doesn't decide what kind of man you'll get, you do. And to be blunt if you enter into a relationship with such naivety and willingness to be subservient, you'll likely learn that the hard way.

It isn't just atheists who learn about life the hard way. Every day, all around the world, people of faith are both the victims and perpetrators of abuse.

I don't want to knock your faith, if it brings something positive to your life, but you also have to live in reality and accept that nobody is perfect.

No you are wrong. If you understand and follow gods will and guidance, you wont enter an abusive relationship and even if you did you wouldn't stay i one Cultures have changed since the bible was written but the underlying premises have not Our understanding of human needs has changed but those needs have not People forget the marriage vows have two components, and the contract depends on BOTH sides fulfilling their commitments In the modern era how can man who loves his wife abuse her?. But lest be clear. Until the late 1960s, only two countries in the world held the legal opinion that a wife could refuse her husband sex on demand. The law saw marriage as conferring an ongoing obligation for sexual consent which could not be arbitrarily withdrawn. Our modern perspective is a VERY recent one .

Subservience is a point of view. In every relationship one is more powerful than the other. The important thing is to find constructive rules by which to manage that imbalance while allowing the relationship to continue.

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GoldenWolf

Seems to be a running theme among those of certain faiths. God is love and don't judge me and it's not my problem. While this isn't a universal truth it seems to be a predominate mindset.

The guy is not playing with a full deck.

Ephesians 6:16

In addition to all of these, hold up the shield of faith to stop the fiery arrows of the devil.

Daniel 11:37

He will show no regard for the gods of his ancestors or for the one desired by women, nor will he regard any god, but will exalt himself above them all.

Deuteronomy 32:39-42

I kill ... I wound ... I will make mine arrows drunk with blood, and my sword shall devour flesh

2 Corinthians 11:14

And no wonder, since Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.

aiepx7zi4.png

Cupid

God of desire, erotic love, attraction and affection

220px-Bertel_Thorvaldsen_-_Cupid.jpg

Beelzebub_and_them_with_him.jpg

Incubus.jpg

Edited by Mystic Crusader
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Mr Walker

And yet you are having trouble connecting with us, hmmm, interesting.

Or perhaps some are making it very difficult to establish the sort of connection referred to. I also have come to deeply distrust the apparent " oh but this is an honest enquiry, designed to understand your pov better." model of questioning.

In the end it is too often the start of a process of trying to tear down or undermine the other's world view, rather than accept it, because acceptance means your own is wrong. The bible is EITHER a book based on love and liberation, with the intent of improving humanity and individual lives, or one based on hate and subjugation, designed to make people miserable fearful and oppressed. . One view is wrong, the other right .

That is not to say that individuals will not INTERPRET the bible's messages through their own evolved world views about many things, and especially how we perceive the true nature and intent of our fellow human beings.. My experience has always been tha t people love me and try to help and empower me and are basically good honest and caring, , so i read the bible from within that framework A child s brought up oppressed, unloved, put down or fearful of authority might find the bible horrendous but i would argue they miss the intent and purpose of those who WROTE the bible. They did not intended to oppress or subjugate but to educte and thus liberate their fellow human beings They set rules to benefit a society and thus the individuals within that society. Then they increased the power and authority of those rules by asserting they were gods rules. This wasn't to gain power or control but to keep citizens safe and prosperous. . As soon as other primates such as chimps develop human level self awareness, they will generate the same sort of rules, and the same sort of religious authority in order to structure their societies and accommodate their new self awareness. . .

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Mr Walker

alan-moores-quotes-7.jpg

Don't you find this an innately silly or pointless POV? I mean, of course we experience the universe through our senses. That is what we are evolved to do. Even the most primitive living organism senses and reacts to its external surroundings and alters its movement etc in response just as an automatic evolved response. But that evolution of our sensory perception occurs BECAUSE the external reality exists, and shapes our abilty to sense and interact with it. We are in a symbiotic relationship with the universe (or at least our local environment)and thus it IS as we perceive it to be, It cannot be fundamentally different or our senses would also recognise and accommodate any difference.

Our universe is NOT entirely made up of consciousness or else no non conscious things could exist Our consciousness merely lets us respond to other entities, with conscious intent, and to think about our universe with a variety of tools. Consciousness is a minor but significant part of us and how we interact with the universe, but it is NOT what makes the universe as it is.

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Mr Walker

They prayed, and prayed, and prayed, and prayed, and prayed some more.

holocaust-victims.jpg

output_33TSqW.gif

And interestingly, surveys letters and biographies of the survivors show that along with attachment to family, a belief in god was ONE of the factors many of those survivors attributed their long term survival to. They claimed that faith sustained them and enabled their survival.

Apart from physically being killed, which happened to most, most people died when they gave up hope and the will to live.

So even in the holocaust camps faith and belief proved a statistically important survival mechanism.

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