Tatetopa Posted February 7, 2016 #26 Share Posted February 7, 2016 Indeed, I believe I went too far and reacted to some of your statements without understanding what you were saying. I feel bad about that, and I am sorry. I think the topic spurs some interesting discussions about how we do form relationships among other individuals that are beneficial for both sides of the relationship. I did bait you and I apologize. It seems you are strongly in favor of small business and you made that a lot more clear in your last statement. So if we live in small communities, we can develop those relationships with our fellow townspeople. I too know who grows my food, and even the name of some of the beef I have eaten. I get raw milk that the person cannot sell in a store. I do trust those people. When I can't do the work on my house, I hire somebody I know or at least a friend knows. I trade peaches, apricots, and figs to neighbors for apples, pears, and cherries. But Jarocal, not everyone has that opportunity. Some people depend on large agribusiness, which has perverted our relationship with the soil and what it produces. It should scare anybody that believes in karma. Corn based diet, medicated, and living knee deep in feces is not a way to produce quality nourishment. Hence some need for regulation, inspection etc. I would tend to say the rules are not strict enough on large producers. I know in my town there are some accommodations for small business, and there are resources like commercial kitchens that people can rent to produce marketable food products. That does not exist everywhere. There is a warehouse sized building called a maker space space in a large town nearby. It provides 3D printers, laser cutters, machine tools available for people to rent to bring their ideas to reality. We live in a representative democracy, it is not just your voice or mine that is considered. In fact we may not have much weight at all. Armour doesn't want the small producer cutting in on their markets, Monsanto doesn't want farmers saving their own seeds; so they lobby, bribe, or coerce legislators into making laws that become repressive for the small producer. Is that the fault of government, of capitalism, or of ourselves for letting it happen? I distrust large corporations and large government, yet, I would like to make the world better if I could and not withdraw from greater society. I don't mind the freedom and risk of everyday life, but I am hugely p***ed off by what Monsanto and Armor can do to small farmers. I am outraged by what drug companies can do to the general population, and of course I can choose not to medicate, but that is not the optimum answer. I am outraged by what large financial institutions are able to do with my life savings. I don't think we can all live in small communities and I don't believe that many of the products we use can be made by small groups of individuals. So, how do we solve this problem? How do we integrate those worthwhile values into a larger social network? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merc14 Posted February 7, 2016 Author #27 Share Posted February 7, 2016 Paranormalcy, you ar eon my ignore list so I won't be seeing you idiotic posts any longer. Socialism has never worked and never will. Learn what it is before you annpunce its successes. Bernie is an idiot. He has integrity and I believe he is an honest man but he is an idiot of the first order. The sillenials that flock to him are know-nothing morons as well. The mess they are in is because this country has leaned far to left the last twenty years (republicans included. GW was a massive disappointment and a liar). 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merc14 Posted February 7, 2016 Author #28 Share Posted February 7, 2016 (edited) Edited February 7, 2016 by Merc14 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamato Posted February 7, 2016 #29 Share Posted February 7, 2016 How do we integrate those worthwhile values into a larger social network? I'd recommend, and I think you'll agree, doing it community by community and county by county. Why do we need Washington DC and more of its **** rolling downhill like Monsanto? Does Monsanto not act according to federal regulations? It should be made to feel unwelcome where it's not welcome, and the hell with Washington DC. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Wearer of Hats Posted February 7, 2016 #30 Share Posted February 7, 2016 Lets ask the Europeans/Brits/Canadians/Aussies/Kiwis/Japanese who are members on this site what they think of their Socialized Medicine. Lets get an honest answer from " The man on the street." Is it good? Are you happy with it? Is it good? As long as its actually supported by the government rather than treated like a red-haired stepchild (see also: education), yes it works. Its good. I am happy with it, but not with how the government ignores it or uses it to score political points. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merc14 Posted February 7, 2016 Author #31 Share Posted February 7, 2016 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Likely Guy Posted February 7, 2016 #32 Share Posted February 7, 2016 I take it that you have a visceral dislike for the man? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark56 Posted February 7, 2016 #33 Share Posted February 7, 2016 "I take it that you have a visceral dislike for the man?" Likely Guy I was wondering Likely Guy, You being a Canadian. Do you like your Socialized Medicine?. And What do you think of USA's Health Care system. Would you prefer The USA system over the Canadian Health care system? Just Curious. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Likely Guy Posted February 7, 2016 #34 Share Posted February 7, 2016 "I take it that you have a visceral dislike for the man?" Likely Guy I was wondering Likely Guy, You being a Canadian. Do you like your Socialized Medicine?. And What do you think of USA's Health Care system. Would you prefer The USA system over the Canadian Health care system? Just Curious. It's different from province to province. In some you pay no montly fee and in others like mine if you make under $20k a year as a single person you pay nothing. I pay about $45 a month. Wait times for certain procedures like hip replacements can be a b****, but it's in order of those most in need. Rich people have to wait in line (or just book the procedure in the U.S. and pay for it). I like our system and the only comment I can make about the U.S. system is that, to me, it seems too patchwork and no one should become bankrupt over a heart attack. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merc14 Posted February 7, 2016 Author #35 Share Posted February 7, 2016 I take it that you have a visceral dislike for the man? I have a visceral dislike for socialism and the promise of utopia. It is a lie and a cruel lie at that and no, there are no successful socialist countries. Eurosocialism tried to walked a thin line between capitalism and socialism and are now failing en-masse. I remember Bernie cheering with the Sandinistas in Nicaragua. I thought he should've been arrested for treason but the old socialist idiot is still hanging around as no one took his crazy ass seriously back then. I am embarrassed for my country that anyone is taking him seriously. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamato Posted February 7, 2016 #36 Share Posted February 7, 2016 I remember Bernie cheering with the Sandinistas in Nicaragua. I thought he should've been arrested for treason but the old socialist idiot is still hanging around as no one took his crazy ass seriously back then. I am embarrassed for my country that anyone is taking him seriously. LOL how can you even rationalize this stuff when looking at your other positions? So Nicaraguans can't overthrow their own dictator, that's Your President's (our taxpayers') job! Good work, non-socialist! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Likely Guy Posted February 7, 2016 #37 Share Posted February 7, 2016 I have a visceral dislike for socialism and the promise of utopia. It is a lie and a cruel lie at that and no, there are no successful socialist countries. Eurosocialism tried to walked a thin line between capitalism and socialism and are now failing en-masse... Okay, placing your general antipathy with Bernie aside for the moment some of the most socialist countries in the western world, largely Scandanavian and especially Norway are hardly failing en-masse. To suggest as much that "there are no successful socialist countries" is an out and out lie. It depends on what your personal definition of what "socialism" is though, I suppose. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark56 Posted February 7, 2016 #38 Share Posted February 7, 2016 "RICH People have to wait in line (or just book the procedure in the U.S. and pay for it." -Likely Guy Right wing News Outlets in the USA tell us this all the time, but it's interesting that they somehow conveniently leave out the adjective "Rich" for these people. "......and no one should become bankrupt over a heart attack....." Amen. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EEHC Posted February 7, 2016 #39 Share Posted February 7, 2016 (edited) I was wondering Likely Guy, You being a Canadian. Do you like your Socialized Medicine?. And What do you think of USA's Health Care system. Would you prefer The USA system over the Canadian Health care system? Just Curious. As a french Canadian I would personally never trade my healthcare system for the American one. Here it's publicly funded and despite some performance issues the system is working quite well. All you need in the Quebec province is to register, get you health card and you have access to medical services. From Wiki: A Strategic Counsel survey found 91% of Canadians prefer their healthcare system instead of a U.S. style system.[18][19] https://en.wikipedia..._care_in_Canada Edited February 7, 2016 by EEHC 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark56 Posted February 7, 2016 #40 Share Posted February 7, 2016 "A Strategic Counsel survey found 91% of Canadians prefer their healthcare system instead of a U.S. style system.[18][19]" posted by EEHC Fascinating , 91%, Wow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astra. Posted February 7, 2016 #41 Share Posted February 7, 2016 Lets ask the Europeans/Brits/Canadians/Aussies/Kiwis/Japanese who are members on this site what they think of their Socialized Medicine. Lets get an honest answer from " The man on the street." Is it good? Are you happy with it? Hi Mark - in answer to your question - we have a very good health system here in Australia - and yes I'm generally happy with it. We are covered by Private Health insurance and we pay 'top cover' (personal choice) at $300 a month. Anyway - rather than go through all the details Iv'e popped in a link to give you a basic idea. http://www.doctorcon...iashealthsystem 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark56 Posted February 7, 2016 #42 Share Posted February 7, 2016 "We are covered by Private Health insurance and we pay 'top cover' (personal choice) at $300 a month." - Xanadu Do you pay any deductibles when yo have a procedure done? Does that $300 per month cover everything or most? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark56 Posted February 7, 2016 #43 Share Posted February 7, 2016 "The Australian health system is world-class in both its effectiveness and efficiency: Australia consistently ranks in the best performing group of countries for healthy life expectancy and health expenditure per person.’ (World Health Organization 2003)." - Australian Government, Dept of Health Wow,not only can the Aussies out-drink Americans, they're healthier!......Go figure 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astra. Posted February 7, 2016 #44 Share Posted February 7, 2016 "We are covered by Private Health insurance and we pay 'top cover' (personal choice) at $300 a month." - Xanadu Do you pay any deductibles when yo have a procedure done? Does that $300 per month cover everything or most? Yes - the $300 per month covers everything including dental - sometimes tho (depending on what the medical procedure is) we may also have to pay what is called a 'gap' / or deductibles as you call it.It doesn't happen very often though when we have to pay any 'gap' costs. If we do - they are pretty reasonable. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astra. Posted February 7, 2016 #45 Share Posted February 7, 2016 "The Australian health system is world-class in both its effectiveness and efficiency: Australia consistently ranks in the best performing group of countries for healthy life expectancy and health expenditure per person.’ (World Health Organization 2003)." - Australian Government, Dept of Health Wow,not only can the Aussies out-drink Americans, they're healthier!......Go figure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acidhead Posted February 7, 2016 #46 Share Posted February 7, 2016 It's different from province to province. In some you pay no montly fee and in others like mine if you make under $20k a year as a single person you pay nothing. I pay about $45 a month. Wait times for certain procedures like hip replacements can be a b****, but it's in order of those most in need. Rich people have to wait in line (or just book the procedure in the U.S. and pay for it). I like our system and the only comment I can make about the U.S. system is that, to me, it seems too patchwork and no one should become bankrupt over a heart attack. Only the "Rich" hop across the border for surgery huh? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Wearer of Hats Posted February 7, 2016 #47 Share Posted February 7, 2016 "The Australian health system is world-class in both its effectiveness and efficiency: Australia consistently ranks in the best performing group of countries for healthy life expectancy and health expenditure per person.’ (World Health Organization 2003)." - Australian Government, Dept of Health Wow,not only can the Aussies out-drink Americans, they're healthier!......Go figure It has to be, what with the lethal wildlife, weather and food we have to endure. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paranormal Panther Posted February 7, 2016 #48 Share Posted February 7, 2016 He seems like a nice man. I root for him during his debates with Clinton, who's now the leading cause of deafness. I think that he's honest and open, so his cards are on the table for all to see. You couldn't pay me (hee) to vote for him, though. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatetopa Posted February 7, 2016 #49 Share Posted February 7, 2016 "Socialism is failing everywhere". "Capitalism is failing." Can we not move beyond buzzwords and analyze situations to assess what practices work and which ones don't? Check out Norway. They put a substantial portion of their oil revenues in a National Mutual Fund for education and infrastructure. Now Norway owns about 1% of all of the common stock publicly traded in the world. They know where the money is coming from to repair bridges and build new ones. What is the cost and value of American health care compared to other industrialized nations? Want to measure infant mortality or life expectancy? Those might be a good place to start. Want to measure percentage of GDP spent on healthcare? What is the cost of emergency room visits to people with no insurance? What system gives the better overall outcome? Data suggests it is not USA. Will Bernie Sanders, Hillary Clinton, Donald Trump, Ted Cruz, or Jeb Bush improve the quality of my life? I really doubt it. Merc claims Bernie is an idiot. I think he is honest, I think he cares. I don't see that anywhere else. I think Bernie might be the reset button. He might not fix anything, but he may give us some breathing room. Maybe as Yamato suggests, we can fix it county by county. In the hot summers of the 1950's I played a lot of Monopoly Games with my cousins at my grandmother's house. Sometimes they lasted 2 or 3 days. When somebody had most of the properties and all of the money, it was time to quit and start a new game. That is the feeling I have now. Life is not that simple anymore. Whatever we do is going to cost and its going to hurt. If there is pain involved, I would rather the outcome be an improvement rather than the status quo. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatetopa Posted February 7, 2016 #50 Share Posted February 7, 2016 Consider North Korea. It is the capitalist's dream. An entire country run by a CEO and a weak board of directors. The third generation is now directing the family business. No safety regulations, no retirement benefits, no HR Dept. If Kim wants to fire someone, he does it with a cannon. Absolute control with no stockholders to answer to at the end of the quarter. How is that working out? Well if you are KIm with unknown billions of dollars stashed, pretty dang good. If you were the average North Korean maybe not so well. What are the mitigating circumstances that make our capitalist system any safer? 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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