Let's talk about Bernie

[GlitterRose]

28 minutes ago, Merc14 said:

The million dollar question is when will the FBI release their finding?  No one knows.

Well, everybody's just taking their good old friggin' time, aren't they? Like I've always said, if there's actual hard evidence...let's see it. I'm tired of hearing about someone's half brother getting busted for cocaine. I want to see something that can get her off the ticket. We won't know if they actually have it until they're done with the investigation. 

[questionmark]

2 minutes ago, ChaosRose said:

Well, everybody's just taking their good old friggin' time, aren't they? Like I've always said, if there's actual hard evidence...let's see it. I'm tired of hearing about someone's half brother getting busted for cocaine. I want to see something that can get her off the ticket. We won't know if they actually have it until they're done with the investigation. 

And that means we might never 'cause both Trump and Clinton are going to pass one thing for sure: pardon themselves.

[Merc14]

35 minutes ago, ChaosRose said:

Well, everybody's just taking their good old friggin' time, aren't they? Like I've always said, if there's actual hard evidence...let's see it. I'm tired of hearing about someone's half brother getting busted for cocaine. I want to see something that can get her off the ticket. We won't know if they actually have it until they're done with the investigation. 

Well, the FBI is not dealing with any half brothers dope deals, they are dealing with some serious stuff.  I don't know how motivated you are but if you have the time you might look into the Clinton Foundation and the shenanigans that are going in there.  The DoJ just sentenced the Governor of VA to jail time for some very minor stuff, certainly nothing close to the level of what the CF is dealing with and it is looking like she ran that private server just to keep what was going on off official circuits.   I think that once they got into the emails and started connecting these massive Sate Department deals to massive donations to the CF the nature of the investigation changed drastically. 

Believe me, your frustration with how long the investigation has lasted is widespread but it may be the case that every rock they turn over leads to some other criminal act and on and on.  My work computer us not cooperating but if you Google "Russian uranium deal and Clinton foundation" you'll get a real eye opener.

[GlitterRose]

3 minutes ago, Merc14 said:

Well, the FBI is not dealing with any half brothers dope deals, they are dealing with some serious stuff.  I don't know how motivated you are but if you have the time you might look into the Clinton Foundation and the shenanigans that are going in there.  The DoJ just sentenced the Governor of VA to jail time for some very minor stuff, certainly nothing close to the level of what the CF is dealing with and it is looking like she ran that private server just to keep what was going on off official circuits.   I think that once they got into the emails and started connecting these massive Sate Department deals to massive donations to the CF the nature of the investigation changed drastically. 

Believe me, your frustration with how long the investigation has lasted is widespread but it may be the case that every rock they turn over leads to some other criminal act and on and on.  My work computer us not cooperating but if you Google "Russian uranium deal and Clinton foundation" you'll get a real eye opener.

It's not like I haven't been following the scandals, but there does seem to be some wide disagreement on whether or not she could actually be indicted. I'll believe she will get indicted when I see it, but I'm not holding my breath. I don't have a lot of faith here. 

[Merc14]

42 minutes ago, ChaosRose said:

It's not like I haven't been following the scandals, but there does seem to be some wide disagreement on whether or not she could actually be indicted. I'll believe she will get indicted when I see it, but I'm not holding my breath. I don't have a lot of faith here. 

After the IG's findings it would be incredibly odd for the FBI to not find criminal wrong doing but that said, I have little faith the current Attorney General will indict as well but it may not matter and, in fact, could be worse as it would show just how corrupt Washington DC truly is thereby inflaming Bernie supporters even more. 

[Gunn]

2 hours ago, Ellapennella said:

but he can't change the fact that he's a commie who would take from us and give our country away, so would it even matter, I don't think so...

 

Oh yeah, it could matter or make a difference. Since Bernie is on the Democrat side, if he runs as a Independent, it might take away votes from Hillary, much like the opposite of when Ross Perot ran as a conservative Independent and took away votes from Bush Sr., which gave Bill Clinton the Presidency. So if your a Trump supporter, this could be a blessing for all of you Trump supporters out there. So if that happens, the chances of Trump winning the general election are that much better, see?

But then again, Sanders may realize that too and not do it, in order to not increase Trump's chances of winning. I was just mainly pointing out, that he seems to have this amazing tenacity of never giving up to the very end and I was wondering just how far he would go.
 

[questionmark]

1 minute ago, Purifier said:

 

Oh yeah, it could matter or make a difference. Since Bernie is on the Democrat side, if he runs as a Independent, it might take away votes from Hillary, much like the opposite of when Ross Perot ran as a conservative Independent and took away votes from Bush Sr., which gave Bill Clinton the Presidency. So if your a Trump supporter, this could be a blessing for all of you Trump supporters out there. So if that happens, the chances of Trump winning the general election are that much better, see?

But then again, Sanders may realize that too and not do it, in order to not increase Trump's chances of winning. I was just mainly pointing out, that he seems to have this amazing tenacity of never giving up to the very end and I was wondering just how far he would go.
 

To the point where he can actually influence the platform.

[ellapenella]

On 6/7/2016 at 11:45 AM, Purifier said:

 

Oh yeah, it could matter or make a difference. Since Bernie is on the Democrat side, if he runs as a Independent, it might take away votes from Hillary, much like the opposite of when Ross Perot ran as a conservative Independent and took away votes from Bush Sr., which gave Bill Clinton the Presidency. So if your a Trump supporter, this could be a blessing for all of you Trump supporters out there. So if that happens, the chances of Trump winning the general election are that much better, see?

But then again, Sanders may realize that too and not do it, in order to not increase Trump's chances of winning. I was just mainly pointing out, that he seems to have this amazing tenacity of never giving up to the very end and I was wondering just how far he would go.
 

Oh, I see what you were saying..I thought you were concerned about Bernie getting it. Yeah, I agree and I think that he wouldn't really do it because he's too sold out to the party, I don't think he would chance it for the reasons why you don't think he would but he would have to be pretty upset if he did do it to the party, but that's the thing about them, they unlike Trump are all sell outs to something. At least Trump is doing it for all the right reasons...at least i think he's doing it all for the right reasons and that either way we're less screwed with Donald Trump.

[Gunn]

20 minutes ago, questionmark said:

To the point where he can actually influence the platform.

 

Yeah that's what he's trying to do now isn't it?

 

 

13 minutes ago, Ellapennella said:

Oh, I see what you were saying..I thought you were concerned about Bernie getting it. Yeah, I agree and I think that he wouldn't really do it because he's too sold out to the party, I don't think he would chance it for the reasons why you don't think he would but he would have to be pretty upset if he did do it to the party, but that's the thing about them, they unlike Trump are all sell outs to something. At least Trump is doing it for all the right reasons...at least i think he's doing it all for the right reasons and that either way we're less screwed with Donald Trump.

Also, unfortunately (and I forgot about this), the same thing could happen on the conservative side too and I wouldn't put it past the anti-Trump conservatives doing the same thing just to screw Trump from getting the Presidency. Lol. Knowing them, they might put Romney up as the Independent. 

 

Edited June 7, 2016 by Purifier

[questionmark]

Just now, Purifier said:

 

Yeah that's what he's trying to do now isn't it?

 

 

Also, unfortunately (and I forgot about this), the same thing could happen on the conservative side too and I wouldn't put it past the anti-Trump conservatives doing the same thing just to screw Trump from getting the Presidency. Lol. Knowing them, they might put Romney up as the Independent. 

 

To the contrary of you I tend to doubt that the conservatives will do anything to make Trump fail. He will do that himself and they will not be accused of sabotaging him.

What is sad for all Republicans is that Obama was not so popular which means that by the law of the series the next Prezz would have been a Republican. The only two Democrats who were seriously running (because they too knew that) have one thing in common: 2016 is their last chance. And then Trump gets the nomination. That is like winning the Powerball jackpot for them.

[supervike]

6 minutes ago, questionmark said:

To the contrary of you I tend to doubt that the conservatives will do anything to make Trump fail. He will do that himself and they will not be accused of sabotaging him.

What is sad for all Republicans is that Obama was not so popular which means that by the law of the series the next Prezz would have been a Republican. The only two Democrats who were seriously running (because they too knew that) have one thing in common: 2016 is their last chance. And then Trump gets the nomination. That is like winning the Powerball jackpot for them.

No kidding.  Hillary has got to be thanking her lucky stars for this lineup.  One year ago, it seemed certain that the Repubs would regain the white house.  Now their house is a mess, and they don't know what to do.  I feel that they are trying to regroup now, just wainting for the Donald to seriously shoot himself in the foot.  It's been their legacy for some time, to have completely weak and non resonating candidates. 

And to think they are going to put up a candidate that makes Hillary actually look electable is no small feat!

 

 

EDIT...I was going to correct the spelling on WAINTING, but I realized it's a nice cross between wanting and waiting...and both words fit.

Edited June 7, 2016 by supervike

[questionmark]

45 minutes ago, supervike said:

No kidding.  Hillary has got to be thanking her lucky stars for this lineup.  One year ago, it seemed certain that the Repubs would regain the white house.  Now their house is a mess, and they don't know what to do.  I feel that they are trying to regroup now, just wainting for the Donald to seriously shoot himself in the foot.  It's been their legacy for some time, to have completely weak and non resonating candidates. 

And to think they are going to put up a candidate that makes Hillary actually look electable is no small feat!

 

 

EDIT...I was going to correct the spelling on WAINTING, but I realized it's a nice cross between wanting and waiting...and both words fit.

Well, it is worse than that: as soon as it looked like Trump was going to clinch it Obama suddenly got popular again.

[Merc14]

I thought the MSM did dirty deed to Bernie by deciding to go all out on all three networks and CNN/MSNBC last night (Monday) to announce that Hillary had already clinched the nomination when nothing had changed.  A very blatant effort to squelch the Sander's turnout today. 

[White Unicorn]

4 hours ago, Merc14 said:

I understand where you are coming from but am very surprised at how little you know about what is going on right now with Hillary Clinton  She is under criminal investigation by the FBI for mishandling classified information, public corruption and espionage.    That is official and the investigation is being tightly held which means no leaks.  I'll explain it not just for you but for anyone else starting to wonder what is happening with this woman.  :

The FBI criminal investigation started out initially because she had set up a private email server to handle official state department business.   This was "discovered" when the Romanian hacker said he had been inside Clinton's and Sid Blumenthal's email servers and read everything.  Sid is an old Clinton hatchet man who was explicitly forbidden by the White House from participating in State Department business, Hillary hired him anyways. 

Hillary, when questioned said a private email server was perfectly legal, (it isn't/wasn't), other SecStates had done it (they hadn't) and she had permission form State Dept. IT to run the server (she didn't) and no , she was never hacked (she was).   When FOIA and Congressional requests for her emails was made she unilaterally erased the drive that they were on, destroying some 30K emails and then instead of electronically transferring the emails she had them printed out and delivered a few thousand at a time.   This caused an uproar and admonishment by the federal judghe and generated a Sate Dept.  IG inspection which was recently released and was very damning and proof that she was lying http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/25/politics/state-department-report-faults-clinton-over-email-use/index.html   (I'll try and stick to left wing sources). 

While all this was getting some press it was discovered that Hillary's emails which resided on an illegal and unsecured server may contain classified information the FBI got involved and began a criminal investigation.  That investigation is ongoing but will be able to use the State IG report as evidence.  According to sources, the initial investigation secured the erased drive and has recovered many of the 30K deleted emails.  It was also discovered that the classified information was Top Secret Compartmentalized information that neither she, nor Sid, were cleared to see.   Reportedly the initial investigation has blossomed into a public corruption investigation involving Hillary selling influence for donations to the Clinton foundation and also an espionage investigation as she was in control of highly classified info she wasn't cleared to see (how did she get it).

The million dollar question is when will the FBI release their finding?  No one knows.  Director Comey said he will not be hurried and has a large number of  agents involved in the investigation.  It is important to remember that the FBI does NOT prosecute cases, they provide their findings and recommendations to the Attorney General who, as with any prosecutor, ultimately decides whether to prosecute or not.  Most pundits think she will either outright not prosecute or appoint a special prosecutor who will, in effect, do everything the FBI has just spent a year doing.  In other words, kick the can down the road although this is pure speculation.  It has been leaked that Comey will not go quietly if the evidence is solid and damning yet she goes free.

Hope that helps and that is about as straightforward as I can make it.  We all await the FBI's report and to date Hillary has been very nonchalant about the whole thing right up until that State IG report was leaked and negated all her excuses.   Most damning was the fact that she and her staff knew her server was hacked at least twice and they never reported the intrusion to the State Dept IT department so they could investigate what info was exposed and secure the server.  

Said well Merc 14

I have high respect for FBI investigations but what is actually done with their results is problematic. 

Hillary and Bill are political partners and have trendous clout with  DNC and with other political figures in the different branches of government . Hillary said very confidently  a few days ago that she will not be indited. IMOP she looked very much like like she was telling truth instead of  looking a little worried denying things and trying to make it less an issue. 

Unfortunately the FBI results could  be put aside or even if she is indited for any of the many charges, she still could receive a pardon just as Bill did for pergy in the Monica fiasco and impeachment. I think her confidence lies in their influence with high position leaders and their past successes of overcoming serious moral,legal and political issues.

Both Bill and Hillary are smart as foxes in working to their political goals.

 

 

[Merc14]

1 minute ago, White Unicorn said:

Said well Merc 14

I have high respect for FBI investigations but what is actually done with their results is problematic. 

Hillary and Bill are political partners and have trendous clout with  DNC and with other political figures in the different branches of government . Hillary said very confidently  a few days ago that she will not be indited. IMOP she looked very much like like she was telling truth instead of  looking a little worried denying things and trying to make it less an issue. 

Unfortunately the FBI results could  be put aside or even if she is indited for any of the many charges, she still could receive a pardon just as Bill did for pergy in the Monica fiasco and impeachment. I think her confidence lies in their influence with high position leaders and their past successes of overcoming serious moral,legal and political issues.

Both Bill and Hillary are smart as foxes in working to their political goals.

 

 

I don't think anyone has any confidence this Attorney general, who is as corrupt as the last one, will do anything with the FBI report.  Maybe appoint a special prosecutor who will get to work sometime in 2018 but I doubt even that will happen.  The law is whatever Obama wants it to be, just like in any other banana republic, so no, I don't expect any legal justice either. 

That said, there are a LOT of people with clearances that are absolutely furious that she hasn't been arrested yet, much less indicted.  If you understand how this stuff works you'd be banging your head against the wall in amazement that she is getting away with this.  It really is outrageous and that is just the classified portion.  I don't expect the FBI to sit back and take their work being blown off so expect fireworks.   Of course they may find nothing illegal going on, who knows.

[Gunn]

3 hours ago, questionmark said:

To the contrary of you I tend to doubt that the conservatives will do anything to make Trump fail. He will do that himself and they will not be accused of sabotaging him.

What is sad for all Republicans is that Obama was not so popular which means that by the law of the series the next Prezz would have been a Republican. The only two Democrats who were seriously running (because they too knew that) have one thing in common: 2016 is their last chance. And then Trump gets the nomination. That is like winning the Powerball jackpot for them.

I think you underestimate Trump, Q. I know he's getting a lot of negativity publicity right now from those who are against him, especially from the Latinos over his latest comments about the judge, and yeah, he shot himself in the foot so bad on that one, you'd think it would do him in, but that son-of-a-gun has the uncanny ability to pull in more popularity from any kind of negative publicity. Because what he's doing is taking a page from the WWE circus playbook right now and applying it to politics, where even the bad guys gain a lot of popularity in the WWE, because the fans think their guy is always a winner; good or bad, it doesn't matter. Because any kind of publicity is better then no publicity, but then one has to play it just right of course and not push things too far and I don't think Trump has pushed things far enough yet. All the crap he's done so far, is just the beginning.

 

And also, that's the thing about running for the Presidency these days, it's a BS political popularity contest and everybody knows it. It's just like high school teenagers when they run for class president in their high schools. It's a popularity contest. So same crap, but different color.

 

So I'm pretty sure the anti-Trump conservatives (The Bush family, Rubio, Romney and others) realize all this too and just might - just might surprise us with Independent run for the helluva it, just to make sure it keeps Trump out of office. Because he's not a elite republican or democratic establishment type and they don't want to have to deal with Trump, because they believe he's someone they can't work with or get the things they want done for their agendas.
 

[ellapenella]

On 6/7/2016 at 0:08 PM, Purifier said:

 

Yeah that's what he's trying to do now isn't it?

 

 

Also, unfortunately (and I forgot about this), the same thing could happen on the conservative side too and I wouldn't put it past the anti-Trump conservatives doing the same thing just to screw Trump from getting the Presidency. Lol. Knowing them, they might put Romney up as the Independent. 

 

yeah, but we're pretty much onto how Romney is, he let us all down big time. I hear that Rubio is wanting to help Trump  now with getting I guess more votes. Oh and I'm glad that Newt Gingrich showed his true colors the other day when he turned on Trump. I didn't want Newt to be a part of anything because he's too establishment connected or loyal. I also heard that Jeff Sessions may be pick for VP. Trump really admires him,I do too,he's a real good guy.An honest guy.

[Yamato]

8 hours ago, Ellapennella said:

Trump will be our next president,get use to it.

 

you don't know who's the commie between Bernie or Trump? yeah o.k , riiight. You sound desperate and scared.

Ravenhawk? 

Donald Trump's foreign policy is an illegal, stupid and violent threat to the liberty and security of every American.   What can be said for people who put such blind religious faith into crazy criminals?  

[Yamato]

8 hours ago, Ellapennella said:

but he can't change the fact that he's a commie who would take from us and give our country away, so would it even matter, I don't think so...

Does the President write the laws or administer the laws that are already there?  

You failed to take me down the last slippery slope I asked you too but let's try again and see if you can do 1 for 2.   Please take me down this slippery slope on how exactly Sanders would "give our country away".   By what laws would he do this?

[ellapenella]

On 6/7/2016 at 5:38 PM, Yamato said:

Ravenhawk? 

Donald Trump's foreign policy is an illegal, stupid and violent threat to the liberty and security of every American.   What can be said for people who put such blind religious faith into crazy criminals?  

Yeah right, if i was wise as RavenHawk I'd be calling you out on your b.s each&every time.

[ellapenella]

On 6/7/2016 at 5:44 PM, Yamato said:

Does the President write the laws or administer the laws that are already there?  

You failed to take me down the last slippery slope I asked you too but let's try again and see if you can do 1 for 2.   Please take me down this slippery slope on how exactly Sanders would "give our country away".   By what laws would he do this?

like how  Obama continuously bypasses congress and writes executive orders,or like how Hillery breaks laws and all? what is your point? or who's trying to drag who down a slope. I'm sticking with Donald Trump.

[ninjadude]

Mods. Please change the name of this thread to "Merc's random political ramblings". It has nothing to do with Sanders.

[Yamato]

14 minutes ago, Ellapennella said:

Yeah right, if i was wise as RavenHawk I'd be calling you out on your b.s each&every time.

What bs? 

And where's that wise guy at lately?  He's never around when you and I are.   But when he returns he'll lay more false political narrative down about the Founders and the Constitution and International Law and "Socialism", insisting that every poster on UM subscribe to his photocopy of Zionism for America - a nasty gruel of nationalism, authoritarianism, racism, and terrorism.   He avoided the US Foreign Policy thread like the plague so he was wise enough to do that.   You're much wiser than that, Ella don't undersell yourself.

11 minutes ago, Ellapennella said:

like how  Obama continuously bypasses congress and writes executive orders

Just like that, yep!  And just like Bush before him.

Quote

,or like how Hillery breaks laws and all?

What laws?

Quote

what is your point? or who's trying to drag who down a slope. I'm sticking with Donald Trump.

Can you explain what "country no more" means under a President Bernie Sanders, and explain how exactly that's going to happen?  

[ellapenella]

On 6/7/2016 at 7:35 PM, Yamato said:

What bs? 

And where's that wise guy at lately?  He's never around when you and I are.   But when he returns he'll lay more false political narrative down about the Founders and the Constitution and International Law and "Socialism", insisting that every poster on UM subscribe to his photocopy of Zionism for America - a nasty gruel of nationalism, authoritarianism, racism, and terrorism.   He avoided the US Foreign Policy thread like the plague so he was wise enough to do that.   You're much wiser than that, Ella don't undersell yourself.

Just like that, yep!  And just like Bush before him.

What laws?

Can you explain what "country no more" means under a President Bernie Sanders, and explain how exactly that's going to happen?  

Can you explain why when i was for Bernie before I learned about him that you were for the capitalist back then and now you've changed. Is it because of the border issue that  you changed?

[GlitterRose]

What was it that you learned about him that turned you around, Ella?