Notorious Indiana 'hell house' is torn down

[Hudds]

Sorry Hudds but there is no "usual" for a haunting because there are no haunted places. Unexplained does not automatically mean supernatural and the best investigator would dig out the truth rather than perpetuate a myth.

What makes you think that there are no haunted places? have you visited all the claimed hunted places yourself? to find out if there are ghosts there or not?

Edited February 12, 2016 by Hudds

[Hudds]

More like:

There was nothing going in until the lady obsessed with demons moved in, then there was a massive haunting which persisted until she moved out at which time the hauntings stopped until the guy who makes ghost movies moved in.

Some of the things you mentioned in this comment, tells us that the place may have been haunted?.

1. How do you know there was nothing going in on before that lady moved in? previous owners may have kept quiet about such things, in case others may think that they are crazy.

2.Someone obsessed with demons moving into a property, which may well be actually haunted does not make that person a liar/faker.

3. It's obvious the place was haunted, because once she moved out she got away from the demonic activity.

4. Regardless of a persons occupation, if anyone moves into an haunted house he or she will also experience demonic presence/activity similar way the previous owner did.

I am not entirely sure what you were trying to say in your comment.

So,... In your clarified opinion, could the story be true? or faked? and reason?.

Edited February 12, 2016 by Hudds

[Merc14]

What makes you think that there are no haunted places? have you visited all the claimed hunted places yourself? to find out if there are ghosts there or not?

All of the haunted places? Of course not, has anyone on earth, in the entirety of earth's history, visited all of the alleged haunted places? Once again, of course not, so why ask such a ridiculous question? Has man visited a black Hole? Once again of course not but our math predicted them and the research tools we have at our disposal have since verified the math so that we now have reliable and oft-proven theories regarding their nature. no such thing exists for ghosts, however.

The interesting thing about your question, however, is that many investigators, both scholarly and not, have visited many of the haunted places and not one of them has ever come up with a single bit of evidence proving there is an actual haunting going on. We just proved that gravity waves exist, something most thought could never be proved yet we did it so the technology and intellect is there yet no serious scientist gives any credence to ghosts and those that have ended up empty handed.

Some of the things you mentioned in this comment, tells us that the place may have been haunted?.

1. How do you know there was nothing going in on before that lady moved in? previous owners may have kept quiet about such things, in case others may think that they are crazy.

The article links to a researcher who dug into the case and investigated it thoroughly. All his findings are documented and footnoted so I am surprised that you, as an investigator, didn't bother to read his findings. He interviewed the landlord who stated that he never had any problems or mysteries until the Ammons moved in, no police reports, no neighborly concern, nothing. After the Ammons moved out the haunting disappeared and nothing else transpired until teh landlord sold teh proeprty to teh ghosthunter who subsequently leveled the place.

2.Someone obsessed with demons moving into a property, which may well be actually haunted does not make that person a liar/faker.

It doesn't preclude them from being a liar and a faker either now does it? Someone obsessed with the idea of demons would be more prone to blame everyday things on demons than, say, someone like me wouldn't they?

3. It's obvious the place was haunted, because once she moved out she got away from the demonic activity.

Well if you had read the evidence, once she moved out the haunting ended. This would mean that the children were haunted and not the property, correct? So immediately your claim of "the usual" goes into the toilet.

4. Regardless of a persons occupation, if anyone moves into an haunted house he or she will also experience demonic presence/activity similar way the previous owner did.

yet the tenants following Miss Ammons experienced nothing but a constant harassment by reporters and other fools. They categorically stated that they thought she made the whole thing up.

I am not entirely sure what you were trying to say in your comment.

Come on! I was very clear about what I was saying.

So,... In your clarified opinion, could the story be true? or faked? and reason?.

It was an absolute fraud perpetuated by a woman with a proclivity for the supernatural and kids that had been taken away from her before and after the event by child services. She even allowed the medical records to be made public and every single professional psychologist came to the same conclusion, the children were acting deceptively and in accordance with their mother’s beliefs. Joe Nickell's finding are here if you would like to read them http://www.csicop.org/si/show/the_200_demons_house_a_skeptical_demonologists_report/

The report link is buried in the article so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt but you really should read the other side if you call yourself an investigator. Much money is scheduled to be made if you are looking for motivation.

Edited February 13, 2016 by Merc14

[Hudds]

All of the haunted places? Of course not, has anyone on earth, in the entirety of earth's history, visited all of the alleged haunted places? Once again, of course not, so why ask such a ridiculous question? Has man visited a black Hole? Once again of course not but our math predicted them and the research tools we have at our disposal have since verified the math so that we now have reliable and oft-proven theories regarding their nature. no such thing exists for ghosts, however.

I think your comment was leaning towards being ridiculous, because you made claims yet you haven't personally investigated all the haunted places on earth. As you said "Has anyone on earth, in the entirety of earth's history, visited all" then why claim "There are no haunted places".

The interesting thing about your question, however, is that many investigators, both scholarly and not, have visited many of the haunted places and not one of them has ever come up with a single bit of evidence proving there is an actual haunting going on.

I disagree. Countless amounts of unexplainable and possible spirits EVP, and photographs had been captured. There is evidence but insufficient at the moment, but adequate to believe in the possibility of spirits existence, and of cause taking into considerations of actual witnesses.

BTW, I am not a paranormal investigator, and neither did I claim to be one.

All my views, opinions and claims are from my own personal experience, also from years of research, studies and a few from assisted investigations.

I am considering to withdraw from this sort of a debate, as I can only see it going in time consuming circles. Especially, now that I have realised, your looking from a science point of view.

All the best, Merc14

Edited February 13, 2016 by Hudds

[Merc14]

I think your comment was leaning towards being ridiculous, because you made claims yet you haven't personally investigated all the haunted places on earth. As you said "Has anyone on earth, in the entirety of earth's history, visited all" then why claim "There are no haunted places".

The ridiculous part is that you asked "have you visited all the claimed hunted places yourself? to find out if there are ghosts there or not?" (sic) in the first place. As for claims I am not making any, I am merely stating what teh current science says.

I disagree. Countless amounts of unexplainable and possible spirits EVP, and photographs had been captured.

Unexplained does not equal ghosts. "Possible spirits EVP, and photographs" can also just be random noise and pareidolia and I don't have break any of the laws of physics to get that answer.

There is evidence but insufficient at the moment, but adequate to believe in the possibility of spirits existence, and of cause taking into considerations of actual witnesses.

It may be adequate enough for you to believe in it but it is not adequate enough for science to believe in it.

BTW, I am not a paranormal investigator, and neither did I claim to be one.

All my views, opinions and claims are from my own personal experience, also from years of research, studies and a few from assisted investigations.

Well, someone who has done "years of research, studies and a few from assisted investigations" would be considered an investigator in most people's minds, especially when the entire field is based on fantasy but roger that, you aren't an investigator.

I am considering to withdraw from this sort of a debate, as I can only see it going in time consuming circles. Especially, now that I have realised, your looking from a science point of view.

Yes, shining the light of rational thought on fantastical claims usually does take the fun out of the party.

All the best, Merc14

and to you as well Hudds

[Hudds]

The ridiculous part is that you asked "have you visited all the claimed hunted places yourself? to find out if there are ghosts there or not?" (sic) in the first place. As for claims I am not making any, I am merely stating what teh current science says.

You really need to step out of your comfort zone, and go and discover, explore and investigate things for yourself.

Prove your mr science wrong, and say "hey, you missed something out, and I found it mr science!". But, you rather stay seated, because mr science told you there is nothing there, so, there's is nothing!.

Yes, shining the light of rational thought on fantastical claims usually does take the fun out of the party.

No, it's called hang up the phone, when you realised someone is not answering, because they are avoiding you.

All the best, Merc14

Edited February 14, 2016 by Hudds

[Merc14]

You really need to step out of your comfort zone, and go and discover, explore and investigate things for yourself.

I daresay I have lived a pretty colorful life Hudds, seen and done things that most peopel only dream about so my comfort zone is pretty huge. Teh one thing I haven't seen in all my travels is a ghost. Lot's of haunted places but no ghosts in residence at any of them.

Prove your mr science wrong, and say "hey, you missed something out, and I found it mr science!".

That is what science is all aboput! It is a constant challenge of current theory. Many people have spent alifetime trtying to prove ghhosts exist and none have succeeded but that isn't Mr. Science's fault is it?

But, you rather stay seated, because mr science told you there is nothing there, so, there's is nothing!.

Oh come on Hudds, are you really going to use the comfort zone, you're close minded line on me? The "you don't believe in ghosts so you are a small minded automaton" schtick? Is that how it works? Funny thing is the bigfoot believers, the flying saucer believers, the mothman believers, the ancient astronaut believers, the Mars civilization believers and the illuminati believers all say the same thing when their pet fantastical thing is challenged. It seems to be the last gasp for folks who believe strongly in something but have no proof that it actually exists.

Mr. Science didn't tell me anything Hudds, it doesn't work that way. Science doesn't say ghosts do not exist, it says that there is no empirical evidence of a spirit world and no science that would support such a world. I reached my personal beliefs by evaluating all of the evidence I could ever find and coming to the conclusion that there is no such thing as ghosts. I am not being close minded or hiding in a comfort zone when I say that, in fact it is very much the opposite.

Let's look at it this way, wouldn't it be more comforting to have proof that an afterlife exists than not? It isn't the skeptic who is hiding from the truth, Hudds, it is the person who refuses to give up their fantastical thing when there is no evidence it exists.

No, it's called hang up the phone, when you realised someone is not answering, because they are avoiding you.

I guess this is an insult but I have no idea what it is in reference to.

Anyways, have the courage to question your own beliefs Hudd. Maybe that whispering in the static is just static that your brain has arranged into what you think is a word. It is how our brains work, a constant striving to make sense out of the chaos.

[Hudds]

That is what science is all aboput! It is a constant challenge of current theory. Many people have spent alifetime trtying to prove ghhosts exist and none have succeeded but that isn't Mr. Science's fault is it?

Spirits are neither a living organism, or a solid form of matter, therefore it is not possible for scientists

to prove their existence.

BUT, that does not mean they do not exist.

Edited February 15, 2016 by Hudds

[Merc14]

Spirits are neither a living organism, or a solid form of matter, therefore it is not possible for scientists

to prove their existence.

BUT, that does not mean they do not exist.

See, right there is where you go wrong! How can you declare what something is made of when you have no sample of it? When you have never tested it. Also your entire statement is wrong from a scientific perspective. Photons "are neither a living organism, or a solid form of matter" yet we test them all the time. We know they are both a particle and a wave and that they have zero resting mass and travel at the speed of light. Hell, quantum mechanics does nothing but deal with such things and quantum particles are far more strange than any hypothetical spirit since you suggest we can see, hear, and mark spirits with simple household items like a digital voice recorder. Spirits should be far easier to prove than quantum particles yet we know all about the latter and nothing of the former.

[Hudds]

See, right there is where you go wrong! How can you declare what something is made of when you have no sample of it? When you have never tested it. Also your entire statement is wrong from a scientific perspective. Photons "are neither a living organism, or a solid form of matter" yet we test them all the time. We know they are both a particle and a wave and that they have zero resting mass and travel at the speed of light. Hell, quantum mechanics does nothing but deal with such things and quantum particles are far more strange than any hypothetical spirit since you suggest we can see, hear, and mark spirits with simple household items like a digital voice recorder. Spirits should be far easier to prove than quantum particles yet we know all about the latter and nothing of the former.

You can send me a sample of Photons by UPS couriers, to examine.

All the best, Merc14.

Edited February 15, 2016 by Hudds

[Merc14]

You can send me a sample of Photons by UPS couriers,

Actually you are being bombarded with them by your computer monitor. There's that Mr. Science thing getting in the way again. Never let science get in the way of a fantasy world. One last thing, you mentioned EVP a couple posts back but them posted "not possible for scientists to prove their existence." How do you rectify those two diametrically opposed things?

[Hudds]

Actually you are being bombarded with them by your computer monitor. There's that Mr. Science thing getting in the way again. Never let science get in the way of a fantasy world. One last thing, you mentioned EVP a couple posts back but them posted "not possible for scientists to prove their existence." How do you rectify those two diametrically opposed things?

It's not possible for sceptical stubborn scientists to prove their existence, but it's quite possible for a believer.

Edited February 15, 2016 by Hudds

[Merc14]

It's not possible for sceptical stubborn scientists to prove their existence, but it's quite possible for a believer.

Quite right, anything is possible when you remove all standards of proof. Of course, that is why we call it pseudo-science and laugh at the silliness of it all.

[Hudds]

Of course, that is why we call it pseudo-science and laugh at the silliness of it all.

Perhaps not as much as I laughed at your silliness. When you compared a particle which represents either a quantum light, or electromagnetic radiation to highly intelligent spiritual beings, that can read our minds, and know our every intention. In most cases it would be impossible to capture, or be sampled by sceptic scientists.

[Hudds]

Quite right, anything is possible when you remove all standards of proof.

How am I removing all standards of proof, when I told you "There is evidence but insufficient at the moment, but it's adequate to believe the possibility"

Neither would I, and I'm sure many others who are interested in the Paranormal, would entirely disregard the existence of spirits, just because science has not proven their existence, as yet! You are being ridiculous, Merc14

Edited February 15, 2016 by Hudds

[Merc14]

Perhaps not as much as I laughed at your silliness. When you compared a particle which represents either a quantum light, or electromagnetic radiation to highly intelligent spiritual beings, that can read our minds, and know our every intention. In most cases it would be impossible to capture, or be sampled by sceptic scientists.

Well, I didn't compare the two because one is real, the photon, and was is fantasy, the ghost. What I really did was show you that scientists can measure things that "are neither a living organism, or a solid form of matter" thereby proving your assertion wrong. I guess that went right over your head, though. Of course, rather than admit your error you compound it by making even more claims for which you have no proof, namely that spirits can read our minds and are very intelligent. How could you possibly know any of that?

[Hudds]

Of course, rather than admit your error you compound it by making even more claims for which you have no proof, namely that spirits can read our minds and are very intelligent. How could you possibly know any of that?

If you read some of my previous post comments, you may figure out, how I possibly may know any of that, and that's all I am willing to say to the stubborn sceptical likes of you.

I don't see any further point in our debate, although I felt that way days ago. We simply have to agree to disagree.

It is best not to derail someone else thread any further,

All the best, Merc14

Edited February 15, 2016 by Hudds

[Merc14]

If you read some of my previous post comments, you may figure out how I possibly may know any of that, and that's all I am willing to say to the stubborn sceptical likes of you.

I don't have to read them, I already know how you know these things.

[Hudds]

I don't have to read them, I already know how you know these things.

Yes, sure sir, I expected you say that.

Edited February 15, 2016 by Hudds