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Roy Perry

"Priest says Hell is an invention of the

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XenoFish

And just whom do you suppose created and constructed those concepts about the; existence, qualities, and nature of their god, and how they were supposed to relate to it.? God or man?

Before time the first form existed. In this void the first form wandered. Then with a cry light burst forth from within the void, great lights and bodies, the first form became all and nothing at once. From the ashes of the first form we are born, our lonely world drifting through the primordial void till all that is shall return unto the first form once again.

Is this the work of man or god?

Edited by XenoFish
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back to earth

neither it is ' the Dao ' ;)

Ch 42 again ! :tu:

The Tao begot one.

One begot two.

Two begot three.

And three begot the ten thousand things.

The ten thousand things carry yin and embrace yang.

They achieve harmony by combining these forces.

Edited by back to earth
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XenoFish

There will come a day when the streets flow with the blood of the innocent. When great men war against one another over my name. Yet I shall not see their faces because I have caused this strife. By my hand and my will the blood flows, then the great men and their warriors shall cry asking for relief from the fallen one, I shall say, I am your god. And I am pleased.

Is this the work of God or Man?

Edited by XenoFish
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Mr Walker

Now walker is trying to manoeuvre into some type of atheist position .... while in the next forum up he is lauding the truth of the bible .

The answer is the same Walker, no matter how much you rephrase and twist the question ;

" And just whom do you suppose created and constructed those concepts about the; existence, qualities, and nature of their god, and how they were supposed to relate to it.? God or man? "

If you dont believe in the religion you will see the answer is that the information came from man .

If you believe in a religion you will see the answer is that the information came from God

- does this really have to be explained to you .

I do not believe in that religion so I see it came from man.

Now, what is your belief and where do you think the information comes from .....

... step carefully now .... you have entered a corner of your yard covered in dog poop with this one !

I think your mind isn't really up the complexity of questions like this. I have clearly explained it but you just don't get it Your problem, not mine

I have repeatedly said that whether a thing is real or imagined our knowledge and understanding of it comes from US. I go back to my original comment For an entity to be a god to humans it must be comprehensible to and understandable by, a human being. so that they can recognise its existence and attribute it as a god.

if you cant recognise something, or oyu cant understand how it might be a god, then you wont MAKE it a god. ALL human gods real or imagined ONLY can become so when humans name than as gods. A dog only becomes a dog when humans recognise it as such. Of course it can exist without human recognition, but it cant be named as a dog, or seen as having the attributes of a dog until humans do this to it

Both your disbelief and another's belief are HUMAN constructs which exist only in the human mind so all gods and all non gods are human constructs, even those which are physically real and have independent existence, just as a real dog is a human construct made up of abstract ideas, preconceptions and beliefs about what a dog is, its nature, and its purpose. .

Personally i have no beliefs about gods. I know an entity which i chose to call a god because that is what other humans know it by. It is actually an ancient, powerful , alien being. The entity has real physical independent existence like a dog, but how i perceive, see, understand and react to the entity comes from with myself and use of evidence logic extrapolation and analysis, just as how i perceive a dog, does . My god has never bitten me, is protective, caring, loyal, and loving, and so i respond to him in that light. if you get bitten by a god, i guess you will react differently to all gods. .

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Mr Walker

There will come a day when the streets flow with the blood of the innocent. When great men war against one another over my name. Yet I shall not see their faces because I have caused this strife. By my hand and my will the blood flows, then the great men and their warriors shall cry asking for relief from the fallen one, I shall say, I am your god. And I am pleased.

Is this the work of God or Man?

Ultimately it is the responsibility of man(in biblical theology) because man disobeyed god and set in train a series of events which culminate here. God brings about the final battle between good and evil, only so that good will win and no sin death hurt anger or hate will exist . Wthout that final battle; death, sin, hurt,anger, hate, and suffering would continue indefinitely, but god ends it by destroying sin . He brings the circle of war and suffering to a close, and the bible ends with the beginning, and the words, " i am the alpha and the omega",( the beginning and the end. )

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XenoFish

And just whom do you suppose created and constructed those concepts about the; existence, qualities, and nature of their god, and how they were supposed to relate to it.? God or man?

Both my previous comments address the question; God or Man. Especially when it comes to the creation of a mythos based around a 'divine' figure. Both those stories go to illustrate that it's a matter of perspective that dictates a purely fictional work is divinely inspired or not. I just wrote those to illustrate the point. I could convince people that 'God" had told me to write those things. I could also control those same people to obey god's will (I mean my will). Giving them stories about a place of eternal please and one of eternal plane. Playing on their fear of death. This is basically how cults are formed, out of the emotional needs of others.

Like always Walker

9912ppo.gif

I had a feeling your nonsense was at an all time high, so I felt on responding to your lack of common sense. You're back on ignore again. For the sake of my sanity.

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Stubbly_Dooright

Both my previous comments address the question; God or Man. Especially when it comes to the creation of a mythos based around a 'divine' figure. Both those stories go to illustrate that it's a matter of perspective that dictates a purely fictional work is divinely inspired or not. I just wrote those to illustrate the point. I could convince people that 'God" had told me to write those things. I could also control those same people to obey god's will (I mean my will). Giving them stories about a place of eternal please and one of eternal plane. Playing on their fear of death. This is basically how cults are formed, out of the emotional needs of others.

Like always Walker

9912ppo.gif

I had a feeling your nonsense was at an all time high, so I felt on responding to your lack of common sense. You're back on ignore again. For the sake of my sanity.

I wonder if my example may back up your point. I wrote a fanfic a long time ago, back in Jersey in the housing I believed was haunted by a ghost named George. It was the only time I actually got onto my computer to write a fiction story from start to finish and then put it on various pages on the net. I sometimes wonder if 'George' compelled me to do it. ;)

Well, that and an ice maker my mother in law got me as a present, I believe are my 'muses'. :D;)

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back to earth

I think your mind isn't really up the complexity of questions like this. I have clearly explained it but you just don't get it Your problem, not mine

... I know an entity which i chose to call a god because that is what other humans know it by. It is actually an ancient, powerful , alien being. ..... My god has never bitten me, is protective, caring, loyal, and loving, and so i respond to him in that light. if you get bitten by a god, i guess you will react differently to all gods. .

Oh, now Walker declares I might not be up for the complexity of his theology ..... he does not believe in God now , after all his Christian waffle and Bible stuff .

His God is actually some space alien, that he knows the same way he knows a god except the space alien doesnt bite him .

... and I am the one having trouble with my mind, not being able to figure things out .

:-*

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back to earth

Ultimately it is the responsibility of man(in biblical theology) because man disobeyed god and set in train a series of events which culminate here. God brings about the final battle between good and evil, only so that good will win and no sin death hurt anger or hate will exist . Wthout that final battle; death, sin, hurt,anger, hate, and suffering would continue indefinitely, but god ends it by destroying sin . He brings the circle of war and suffering to a close, and the bible ends with the beginning, and the words, " i am the alpha and the omega",( the beginning and the end. )

So God, being some space alien that doesnt bite .... will start a giant battle that only the 'good' ( :) ) will win , because without a giant war going on we will have death, sin, hurt,anger, hate, and suffering , but God /alien / not biting dog will stop all that by causing a great war ....

all neatly summed up 'I am the beginning and the end ' ( which walker kindly translates for us morons ) ....

there ! that all made perfect sense !

:cry:

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Mr Walker

Both my previous comments address the question; God or Man. Especially when it comes to the creation of a mythos based around a 'divine' figure. Both those stories go to illustrate that it's a matter of perspective that dictates a purely fictional work is divinely inspired or not. I just wrote those to illustrate the point. I could convince people that 'God" had told me to write those things. I could also control those same people to obey god's will (I mean my will). Giving them stories about a place of eternal please and one of eternal plane. Playing on their fear of death. This is basically how cults are formed, out of the emotional needs of others.

Like always Walker

9912ppo.gif

I had a feeling your nonsense was at an all time high, so I felt on responding to your lack of common sense. You're back on ignore again. For the sake of my sanity.

While you have far too negative an attitude to religions (they actually form to meet the unmet NEEDS of human beings )and a mistaken idea about how and why they form, (they originate as a child's cognitive processing the unknown agents in their world and then continuing this process into adult thinking) This is followed by a process where LIKE or similar god concepts are accepted by a group of people and a religion begins. (usually as you say, as a small group or cult) you are actually proving my point about how ALL gods are a human construct and how, for an entity to BE a human god, a human has to recognise this entity and name it as a god This is precisely what you are saying (and doing) here.

Edited by Mr Walker

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Mr Walker

Oh, now Walker declares I might not be up for the complexity of his theology ..... he does not believe in God now , after all his Christian waffle and Bible stuff .

His God is actually some space alien, that he knows the same way he knows a god except the space alien doesnt bite him .

... and I am the one having trouble with my mind, not being able to figure things out .

:-*

If you had read and understood ANY of my posts for the last decade you would KNOW that is what i have ALWAYS been saying. Since 2005 in posts on UM I have always said that I call this entity the cosmic or universal consciousness, and do not address it as god because it has never suggested it is a god. I use the term god in posts ONLY because that is what most humans call this entity, one of many forms of god. But no, you read me saying i live life as a biblical christian does, and you think i must have a christian belief system about god . Like i said, i wonder about your abilty to process information accurately.

Did you miss the dozens of posts where i have explained i could just as happily live as a buddhist or jew or muslim or pagan or jainist or gaean or sikh etc., as long as i could maintain my individual relationship with the csomic consciousness For me Christianity is a culturally appropriate and convenient form of connection to "god," and a biblical life style with lots of fruit nuts organic produce and little meat, brings a lot of physical and mental health benefits from the significance of maintaining a healthy mind in a healthy body (doctor read my blood pressure today; 110/72 Not bad for a 64 year old, and largely attributable to my diet and life style, which in turn is based on the biblical life style encouraged by my wife. )

I am sure you actually got my analogy about how we relate to god depending on how we believe god has treated us, just as we do with a dog or a cat, so stop pretending to be dumb

Edited by Mr Walker

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Mr Walker

So God, being some space alien that doesnt bite .... will start a giant battle that only the 'good' ( :) ) will win , because without a giant war going on we will have death, sin, hurt,anger, hate, and suffering , but God /alien / not biting dog will stop all that by causing a great war ....

all neatly summed up 'I am the beginning and the end ' ( which walker kindly translates for us morons ) ....

there ! that all made perfect sense !

:cry:

I said that was biblical theology. i also said i didn't believe biblical theology.

Put your finger on the words, and read S L O W L Y OR stop being deliberately obtuse just to be confronting.

The concept of a literary device such as using the words alpha and omega to tie a story's ending to its own origin and also to a new beginning (literally in this case on the new earth at the end of revelations, where the original garden of eden forms the centrepiece of a new world cleansed of all pain, death, corruption, fear etc.) is not understood by everyone, and not everyone knows what omega means, although most might know alpha., so yes i did explain it. Sorry if that offended you, but you are not the only reader of a post.

In biblical theology the war is already raging on earth and hence our present condition.

In revelations, god ends that war, defeating the fallen angels, and restores humanity to its original condition (again not saying i believe any of this, but it is the mainstay of Christian hope and belief)

Edited by Mr Walker

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Stubbly_Dooright

You know, I grew up not believing there is a devil. Was told this from my mother. Of course, this along with a secular upbringing, it carried over to my path of my belief. This belief of mine, holds that there is no such as a devil, and no such place as hell. I have the feeling, there are punishments and such, but I don't think we should know until it's time. *shrugs*

Maybe, that's why I don't believe in demons........................ and zombies!!! :D :D

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back to earth

You know, I grew up not believing there is a devil. Was told this from my mother. Of course, this along with a secular upbringing, it carried over to my path of my belief. This belief of mine, holds that there is no such as a devil, and no such place as hell. I have the feeling, there are punishments and such, but I don't think we should know until it's time. *shrugs*

Maybe, that's why I don't believe in demons........................ and zombies!!! :D :D

Do you believe in space aliens that are like dogs that dont bite, and are not god or christian but will come down at the end times (already started ) and act just like the Christians say their God will act ? .... ;)

Unfortunately , in regards to 'punishments' , I suspect they are of the worst variety ; having to do it all again - and get it right this time !

:cry: I hate that ! .....

Edited by back to earth
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Noteverythingisaconspiracy

Personally i have no beliefs about gods. I know an entity which i chose to call a god because that is what other humans know it by. It is actually an ancient, powerful , alien being. The entity has real physical independent existence like a dog, but how i perceive, see, understand and react to the entity comes from with myself and use of evidence logic extrapolation and analysis, just as how i perceive a dog, does . My god has never bitten me, is protective, caring, loyal, and loving, and so i respond to him in that light. if you get bitten by a god, i guess you will react differently to all gods. .

You have a god but have no personal beliefs in god ? :whistle:

Cognitive dissonance is a b****, isn't it ? :innocent:

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Mr Walker

You have a god but have no personal beliefs in god ? :whistle:

Cognitive dissonance is a b****, isn't it ? :innocent:

I have a wife and thus have no abilty or need to believe i have a wife. I had parents and had no belief that I had parents, I KNEW i did. Same for god

You cant believe/disbelieve in the existence of entities you KNOW exist. No dissonance at all, just pure logic.

I mean, how should I answer a question like, "Do you believe in the existence of your wife or your father?" Or "Do you believe you have a wife?"

My response is "No I DO NOT believe in their existence I KNOW they exist, from solid evidences for their existence" " No i do not believe I have a wife, I KNOW I do"

Same for god. (again not its actual name but used for convenience of communication)

I am not a belief type person, but i do invest some evidence based beliefs IN my wife and god Eg I believe both love me (from the evidences that they do, and from my "investment of faith" that they do) I believe both care about me from the evidences that they do. I believe neither would hurt or betray me, based on the evidences of nearly fifty years association with both of them, and again from my "investment of faith" in both of them. . and so on.

Edited by Mr Walker

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Rlyeh

I have a wife and thus have no abilty or need to believe i have a wife. I had parents and had no belief that I had parents, I KNEW i did. Same for god

You have no beliefs about your wife?
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Mr Walker

You have no beliefs about your wife?

I went to a lot of trouble to explain this, and the sentences were clear and simple, relating directly to The EXISTENCE of my wife or parents. Do you really find it hard to follow?

I have no belief n the existence of my wife. I know she exists This is the same for god (in my life)

I chose to invest certain beliefs about my wife based on experience and evidence but in the end based on my faith in her nature. eg i believe she is very honest . I believe she is totally loyal to me. i believe she loves me. I have no evidence she is not and i chose to believe she is because i want to believe this, and chose to make an investment of faith in her.

This is the same for god. ALL the evidences in how god relates to me and treats me suggest he loves me, cares for me, and wants me to be happy and well.

I have no evidences to the contrary and plenty that he does.

But as with my wife i cant truly KNOW his mind.

In both cases i can only know what they tell me, or how they act. So i invest the same "belief via faith" in the nature of god that, like my wife, he will always continue to love me, care for me, stay by me, and be a partner in my life.

Perhaps you rsponsded while i was still writing/drafting the post but even the sentence you query is absolutely clear

"I have a wife and thus have no abilty or need to believe i have a wife. I had parents and had no belief that I had parents, I KNEW i did. Same for god "

It relates ONLY to the existence of my wife, my parents, and god, ALL of whom offer to me the same physical evidences for/of their independent physical existence.

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Rlyeh

I went to a lot of trouble to explain this, and the sentences were clear and simple, relating directly to The EXISTENCE of my wife or parents. Do you really find it hard to follow?

When it comes to your statements, nothing is clear. You have a tendency to say something then twist it to imply something else.
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back to earth

Some people know they have a wife and know she loves them. Others have a wife and ..... :unsure2:

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GlitterRose

Sounds about right.

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Stubbly_Dooright

Do you believe in space aliens that are like dogs that dont bite, and are not god or christian but will come down at the end times (already started ) and act just like the Christians say their God will act ? .... ;)

Unfortunately , in regards to 'punishments' , I suspect they are of the worst variety ; having to do it all again - and get it right this time !

:cry: I hate that ! .....

Naw! Well, believing in space aliens. In a sense, for I cannot feel the arrogant thought that we are the only ones in this unlimited universe. As for them coming down, if they hadn't in a full public sense ( not talking about personal accounts here and there ) after all this time, I don't think they will. I really think they have their own 'prime directive'. ;)

I don't think they bite. ( Although the anal probing does get me to wondering. :o:D:devil: )

I like to think they more the Steven Spielberg cute little Ets, or maybe a wondering Time Lord. .......................................... of the 10 or 11, or 5th or 3rd kind. :blush:;)

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Stubbly_Dooright

Some people know they have a wife and know she loves them. Others have a wife and ..... :unsure2:

I know I don't have a wife, ....................

My husband on the other hand.............................

................................ I'll have to see what he says! :D:P

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XenoFish

Walker does believe in tri-breasted space goddesses though. He met one once.

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Mr Walker

Walker does believe in tri-breasted space goddesses though. He met one once.

NO! I CREATED one, in a controlled lucid dream in my early teens. Much earlier I also created 2 metre tall intelligent rabbits, dressed and armed as Roman centurions for my praetorian body guard. This was in the pocket universe i created as a pre schooler for my dreams as a young child, which tended to be inhabited by intelligent animals and other creatures, like dragons orcs hobbits etc. and which existed underground, in a huge cavern entered via a trapdoor in my back yard. .

I have created thousands of individual mythical creatures and recreated many historical and literary beings for my dream scapes I made NO claim that this was a real encounter, or an example of extending my consciousness.

She was a magnificent creature of my own creation, and really really hot. :devil: . .

I have also created for my dream worlds, dragons to fly on and fight with, and a succession of flying carpets, from simple/primitive ones with a seat belt attached to stop me falling off, through to ones using inertial dampening and force fields to stop me falling off them

People will get entirely the wrong idea if you tell them I think I have met a real, 3 breasted space Amazon/alien, and we cant have that. :rofl:

Edited by Mr Walker

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