Netanyahu plans fence around Israel

[RoofGardener]

Well, fair point BRD. After all, being an Australian, you don't NEED fences. You just use Islands to 'manage' your illegal immigrant problem.

The rest of us in the Uncivilized World (e.g. those who don't have barbecues) have to use more mundane techniques.

[Black Red Devil]

I thought your world was Britain, also an island, not Israel? Now, now Roofy, you're starting to let some truths slip through.

{Huh, I noticed I didn't write something right when I got my rights mixed up in my previously righteous post}.

Edited March 2, 2016 by Black Red Devil

[Tatetopa]

How many movies have their been of America being invaded; by Russians, by Chinese, by Aliens? Who are the heroes of those movies? By your definition, if they resist, they are beasts.

[+and-then]

How many movies have their been of America being invaded; by Russians, by Chinese, by Aliens? Who are the heroes of those movies? By your definition, if they resist, they are beasts.

So killing old people, kids, young mothers by stabbing, shooting and running them down with cars - that's all okay, because it's "resistance"?

[RavenHawk]

First of all, good fences make good neighbors. We need to make Mexico a good neighbor, BTW.

Reality check. You live in the middle of two neighbors who's houses are adjacent to yours. The one on the right decides to build a fence on his property separating your land from his. The one on the left builds a fence on your property separating your land from his. The one on the left also extends the fence so it swings around impeding your access to the street and every time you want to go somewhere you have to ask his permission and wait for him to let you through. You've complained to the Police Commissioner about this but he's done absolutely nothing unsurprisingly. In fact it's his Uncle, Uncle Sam. Once you even decided to take matters into your own hands by throwing a few rocks his way in frustration. Unfortunately, the guy got his bulldozer out and took a chunk of your property off you and rebuilt the fence around it. Again Uncle Sam did nothing.

Yes, I can understand why you might go wild.

A very naïve analogy. If we analyze your analogy, we would need to know who the players are. Not sure who the neighbor on the right is but it appears that the neighbor on the left is Israel and *you* are the Palestinians. If this is the case, then the analogy falls apart right from the start. Because now, we know that *you* do not own the property. It was owned by the city for some time but has since abandoned it. Before abandoning it, never established proper deeds to those that were squatting. One reason why the city abandoned it. The Authorities do not recognize these claims and they are under no legal obligation to do so. The squatters go wild and begin throwing rocks and the authorities have no motivation to help settle the matter.

[Black Red Devil]

First of all, good fences make good neighbors. We need to make Mexico a good neighbor, BTW.

A very naïve analogy. If we analyze your analogy, we would need to know who the players are. Not sure who the neighbor on the right is but it appears that the neighbor on the left is Israel and *you* are the Palestinians. If this is the case, then the analogy falls apart right from the start. Because now, we know that *you* do not own the property. It was owned by the city for some time but has since abandoned it. Before abandoning it, never established proper deeds to those that were squatting. One reason why the city abandoned it. The Authorities do not recognize these claims and they are under no legal obligation to do so. The squatters go wild and begin throwing rocks and the authorities have no motivation to help settle the matter.

As always your view point is miscued by your bias beliefs. The "city" is illegally occupying the land. Most governing bodies in the world condemn this occupation and before you go spitting on the UN, it's thanks to the vetoing powers of the UN that has allowed the occupation to last so long and avoided Israel sanctions that would have driven the country into poverty.

[+and-then]

As always your view point is miscued by your bias beliefs. The "city" is illegally occupying the land. Most governing bodies in the world condemn this occupation and before you go spitting on the UN, it's thanks to the vetoing powers of the UN that has allowed the occupation to last so long and avoided Israel sanctions that would have driven the country into poverty.

Those who champ at the bit for that eventuality will get it soon enough, I think. Mind that while you celebrate you might just get bitten in the backside by the inevitable war it will cause. Anyone who thinks that those 6 or 7 million Jews in Israel will be forced to pull stakes and simply give up aren't very logical. They will FIGHT and they will turn the region into a slaughterhouse before they'll be pushed out by Hamas, Hizballah or the PA. Dream on....

[Black Red Devil]

Those who champ at the bit for that eventuality will get it soon enough, I think. Mind that while you celebrate you might just get bitten in the backside by the inevitable war it will cause. Anyone who thinks that those 6 or 7 million Jews in Israel will be forced to pull stakes and simply give up aren't very logical. They will FIGHT and they will turn the region into a slaughterhouse before they'll be pushed out by Hamas, Hizballah or the PA. Dream on....

Really? At the moment the world except the US and it's obedient allies in western Europe and Australia recognise a Palestinian State. So if the US finally gives in and agrees to not veto a request by the UN to sanction Israel for debunking every attempt so far to legitimise a Palestinian land which includes East Jerusalem, West Bank and Gaza (basically the pre 1967 borders which most parties except the Zionists in Israel agree too), Israel in retaliation will turn the Middle East into glass and kill millions. Something like a super dummy spit with radioactive ramifications. Are you aware radiation would also engulf Israel?

LOL What movies have you been watching lately. Nukes are good as a deterrent and for long distance opponents (without an equal stockpile), not when you're surrounded by enemies. Also, irking off you're allies like Netanyahu has been doing for years isn't a good idea when you're caught up in conventional warfare,

[SHaYap]

THE SAMSON OPTION - ISRAEL IS THE GREATEST THREAT TO THE ENTIRE WORLD

Mothman 777

REPOST - JANUARY 18, 2015 (Request)

Remember the ‘Samson Option’?

Israel says they have nuclear missiles aimed at cities all over Europe, which they curiously and insanely regard as ‘hostile’, this being the preferred choice of target of the Israeli Air Force. Israel routinely calls the USA ‘anti-semitic’ too. Does anything strike you a being a little odd about that? Like what the hell are we fighting for Israel for? If you want to do something to protect your security, address the issue of the Samson Option every day to your media and to all others till that threat is properly dealt with. Demand that it be the topmost issue from amongst all others until those Israeli nukes are confiscated. That is the only threat the whole world faces, not Iraq, not Afghanistan, not Libya, not Iran or any other nation, but Israel, the gangster bully boys.

`

• four winds 10 net link
  

~

The Samson Option: Israel's Nuclear Arsenal And American Foreign Policy

by Seymour M. Hersh

Reviewed by Gaddis Smith

This fascinating work of investigative history sifts hard fact from the decade's rumors and half-confirmed reports about Israel's nuclear weapons program. The result is a convincing description of nuclear capacity sought from the very beginning of the new state and achieved while Americans pretended ignorance or provided indirect assistance. Hersh argues that it is virtually certain that Israel received accelerated aid from the United States during the 1973 Yom Kippuf War by "nuclear blackmail," i.e., threatening to use nuclear weapons against the Arab foes

`

• foreign affairs link
  

~

In other words "I get what I want or no one gets anything ..."

Sounds plenty familiar ... now where have we heard it before ?

~

[Tatetopa]

So killing old people, kids, young mothers by stabbing, shooting and running them down with cars - that's all okay, because it's "resistance"?

Nope its not. That is not logical. Calling people beasts however does not lead to a useful ending for anybody.

[Tatetopa]

Maybe we could think of better solutions than blowing everybody up. Of course on the positive side, we wouldn't have to worry about climate change.

[Black Red Devil]

• four winds 10 net link
  

~

• foreign affairs link
  

~

In other words "I get what I want or no one gets anything ..."

Sounds plenty familiar ... now where have we heard it before ?

~

Yeah, yeah but Israel are the good guys, it's Iran's non existent nuclear program we must be wary of.

[RoofGardener]

I thought your world was Britain, also an island, not Israel? Now, now Roofy, you're starting to let some truths slip through.

{Huh, I noticed I didn't write something right when I got my rights mixed up in my previously righteous post}.

Britain WAS an Island, but some fool built a tunnel !

You could argue that Israel IS an island. An island of civilisation in a sea of primitive barbarity.

The Dutch built dykes to hold the sea back; Israel is building fences.

[RoofGardener]

third_eye, there is a teeny tiny problem with the Mothman 777 article.

It is complete and utter fabrication. The quote from Golda Meir was never spoken. The whole thing is made up.

Apart from that, it's great

Incidently, the website you linked to, that published the article ?

It is Fourwinds, part of the Star Light foundation of Dakota (not to be confused with the Starlight Foundation). Part of its creed is that the affairs of mankind are controlled by a fleet of alien spaceships (the "Hosts of Heaven") orbiting the earth.

They'd fit right in here !

Seriously guys, go check out their "mission statement". http://www.fourwinds10.net/siterun_static/general/about_fourwinds.php

And we're posting links to that website to support rational debate ?

Edited March 5, 2016 by RoofGardener

[Leonardo]

It absolutely amazes me that people cannot see the parallels.

The State of Israel has gazed into the abyss for so long it is unsurprising the abyss has gazed back. It's ironic that Nietzsche was German also.

[SHaYap]

third_eye, there is a teeny tiny problem with the Mothman 777 article.

It is complete and utter fabrication. The quote from Golda Meir was never spoken. The whole thing is made up.

Apart from that, it's great

Good , now that we've established that you did read through the article ... let's give this squiggle a little more of a squeeze eh ?

ISRAELI POLITICAL INSANITY. THE SAMSON OPTION: Israeli Letter-poem to Grass: If We Go, Everyone Goes

By Gil Ronen

Global Research, April 22, 2012

israelnationalnews.com 22 April 2012

Editor’s Note

We bring to the attention of our readers the response of Israeli poet Itamar Yaoz-Kost to the message of Nobel Laureate Guenter Grass, who warns the World of the dangers of a US Israeli sponsored war on Iran.

“The Samson option” (“We Go Down, Everyone Goes”) is not an abstract concept in Israeli politics. It has been addressed by military strategists in both Israel and the US.

While Israel’s Interior Ministry has banned Guenther Grass from entering Israel, the “We Go Down, Everything Goes” hate rhetoric against humanity in its entirety, is accepted as a concept by Tel Aviv policy makers.

Israel is a rogue state and a threat to global security.

Is it not time to restore an element of sanity in the so-called “international community"

• global research ca link
  

Incidently, the website you linked to, that published the article ?

It is Fourwinds, part of the Star Light foundation of Dakota (not to be confused with the Starlight Foundation). Part of its creed is that the affairs of mankind are controlled by a fleet of alien spaceships (the "Hosts of Heaven") orbiting the earth.

They'd fit right in here !

Seriously guys, go check out their "mission statement". link

And we're posting links to that website to support rational debate ?

Wonderful ... now that we've further established that rationality should be the measure of the links , here you go :

The Samson Option: Israel's Nuclear Arsenal & American Foreign Policy

by Seymour Hersh

The Samson Option explodes one of the world's most closely guarded secrets—the secret of Israel's atomic arsenal. It relates, for the first time, the political, diplomatic, and military repercussions that have for decades been concealed from the world.

It is also about America's ability not to see what it does not want to see. All American presidents since John F. Kennedy have turned a blind eye toward Israel's growing nuclear capacity while paying lip service to the goal of nuclear nonproliferation.

In The Samson Option, Seymour M. Hersh, the Pulitzer Prize-winner who wrote the first account of the My Lai massacre in South Vietnam, reveals one of the classic clandestine operations of our time: Israel's spectacular underground nuclear facility in the Negev Desert, where its technicians and scientists began manufacturing nuclear warheads in the late 1960s. It describes the bitter infighting within the Israeli government over the bomb and its huge cost. It tells how the money for me nuclear program was raised abroad, and how the early technology was acquired with the aid of France. And it shows how and when Israel threatened to use its nuclear power.

The Samson Option reveals many startling events that played a secret and significant role in the history of our times from the early 1960s through the Gulf War:

• How, in the late 1970s, Israel not only stole reconnaissance intelligence from our most secret of satellites, the KH-11, but used that data to help target the Soviet Union;

• How Jonathan Pollard, the American spy now serving a life sentence in jail, was a key figure in Israel's nuclear program (and how some of Pollard's intelligence was turned over to the Soviet Union at the express direction of Yitzhak Shamir, the Israeli prime minister);

• How Israel created a false control room at the nuclear reactor at Dimona to give U.S. inspectors the false impression that the facility was solely for research;

• How the Eisenhower administration made a concerted last-ditch effort in December 1960 to force Israel to acknowledge its nuclear ambitions—and failed;

• How Israel threatened Henry Kissinger and Richard Nixon with the use of nuclear weapons on the third day of the 1973 Yom Kippur War, successfully blackmailing the White House to airlift much needed supplies;

• How South Africa cooperated with Israel to create a mysterious 1979 "flash" in the South Atlantic, actually a test of an Israeli-South African nuclear artillery shell;

• How Israel used a top London newspaper editor to help catch Mordecai Vanunu, its nuclear traitor;

• How a prominent American Jewish Democratic party fund-raiser also raised money for the Israeli bomb—and was able to intervene repeatedly at the White House; and

• How the American intelligence community was finally able to learn what Israel was doing at Dimona—though it was understood that no one's career would be enhanced by providing such intelligence to the White House.

The Samson Option is ultimately a narrative of how the bomb influenced the diplomatic relations between Israel and America far more than was seen or understood by the press and the public. It shows that, in every sense, Israel was born a nuclear power. Since its founding, some of its leaders, including David Ben-Gurion and Ernst David Bergmann—the little-known scientist who was the father of the Israeli bomb—were determined that no future enemy would be able to carry out another Holocaust. Just as Samson brought down the temple and killed himself along with his enemies, so would Israel destroy those who sought its destruction.

The message of The Samson Option is stark: The next Middle East war might very well be nuclear.

• archive org link
  

~ take your time ... give it the same measure of scrutiny that you gave the other links that you found so disparaging ~

______________________________________________________________________________________________

well looks like it's crickets tonight so I'll head off to the pub ...

in parting here's a bit more to ponder over the weekend ~

The Samson Option: Was nuclear blackmail confirmed by Israeli Prime Minister Golda Meir?

"The Samson Option" sounds like the plot of yet another apocalyptic Hollywood movie: a group of fanatical terrorists have gained control of nuclear weapons and are threatening to destroy the world in a fit of pique. But in this case the nukes are all too real and the terrorists happen to be the wildly irrational leaders of Israel. And the story is unfortunately true: Golda Meir (known as "Mother Israel") once threatened to destroy the world with nuclear weapons during an interview with the BBC. Furthermore, Martin Van Creveld, an Israeli military expert and professor at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem, has been quoted as saying: "Most European capitals are targets for our air force ... We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under." Amos Rubin, an economic adviser to former Prime Minister Yitzhak Shamir, once said: "If left to its own Israel will have no choice but to fall back on a riskier defense which will endanger itself and the world at large ... To enable Israel to abstain from dependence on nuclear arms calls for $2 to $3 billion per year in U.S. aid." In other words, Americans can either pay billions in confidence money every year, or be wiped out. Why? So that Israeli "settlers" can continue to steal the Palestinians' ever-dwindling land in the West Bank, while the mighty IDF protects the robber barons rather than their victims. According to Israel, the laws of the jungle and the Wild, Wild West still apply in the 21st century, because "might makes right."

• the hypertexts link
  

~

The following is an interview between a publisher and Alan Hart which should give you some insights on his outlook…

Alan, hundreds if not thousands of books have been written about what is loosely termed the Arab-Israeli conflict, why do you feel that yours will enable readers – many for the first time – to have real understanding of what it’s all about and how to stop what you’ve called the countdown to Armageddon?

***

Jews can never again trust Gentiles. We take it as a given that Jews will always be hated and that the monster of anti-Semitism will go on the rampage again. The Zionist state will exist to be the refuge of last resort for Jews everywhere and thus an insurance policy to guarantee the survival of the Jewish people. Zionism will do whatever if takes to secure and maintain this guarantee, and if what we do causes our state to be regarded as a pariah by the rest of the world, well, the rest of the world can go to hell!

***

• alan hart net link
  

~

The "Samson Option" is a phrase used to describe Israel’s strategy of massive nuclear retaliation against "enemy" nations should its existence as a Jewish state be jeopardized through military attack. Israeli leaders created the term in the mid-1960s, inspired by the Biblical figure Samson, who destroyed a Philistine temple, killing himself and thousands of Philistine enemies.^[1][2]

Israel refuses to admit officially that it has nuclear weapons - a policy known as "nuclear ambiguity" or "nuclear opacity."^[3] This despite government officials inferring repeatedly - and occasionally admitting - the fact. And despite Israeli nuclear whistleblower Mordechai Vanunu making public smuggled photographs of nuclear weapons and production equipment in the 1980s.^[4] Israel now may have as many as 400 atomic and hydrogen nuclear weapons,^[5][6] as well as the ability to launch them via long range missiles, submarines and aircraft.^[7] It can use them in a second strike even if its military is devastated.

Originally a strategy of last resort retaliation - even if it means Israel’s annihilation - it has developed into being a nuclear bullying strategy to further Israel’s territorial goals through threats and blackmail. Israel has bullied not only Arab and Muslim nations, but the United States and Russia with its Samson Option threats. Mordechai Vanunu has alleged that Israel uses for purposes of blackmail its ability to "bombard any city all over the world, and not only those in Europe but also those in the United States."^[8]

^***

Too few peace or political activists, left or right, are willing to challenge Israel’s Samson Option threats or even to make a nuclear free Middle East a central demand.[73] Until military and political leaders, as well as activists, are willing to change U.S. policy of defacto support for Israel’s Samson Option the whole world remains a potential victim of this horrific strategy.

`

• wiki spooks link
  

~

ISRAEL

Dark Thoughts and Quiet Desperation

Jews well understand the consequences of passively accepting doom.

April 07, 2002|DAVID D. PERLMUTTER | David D. Perlmutter is an associate professor of Mass Communication at Louisiana State University and a senior fellow at the Reilly Center for Media & Public Affairs. He is the author of "Visions of War."

• articles LA Times link
  

`edit : fixed wonky links

Edited March 5, 2016 by third_eye

[Black Red Devil]

Yeah, let's attack the source of the info and divert from discussing the info itself.

Edited March 5, 2016 by Black Red Devil

[+and-then]

Really? At the moment the world except the US and it's obedient allies in western Europe and Australia recognise a Palestinian State. So if the US finally gives in and agrees to not veto a request by the UN to sanction Israel for debunking every attempt so far to legitimise a Palestinian land which includes East Jerusalem, West Bank and Gaza (basically the pre 1967 borders which most parties except the Zionists in Israel agree too), Israel in retaliation will turn the Middle East into glass and kill millions. Something like a super dummy spit with radioactive ramifications. Are you aware radiation would also engulf Israel?

LOL What movies have you been watching lately. Nukes are good as a deterrent and for long distance opponents (without an equal stockpile), not when you're surrounded by enemies. Also, irking off you're allies like Netanyahu has been doing for years isn't a good idea when you're caught up in conventional warfare,

As usual you distort or ignore outright what I ACTUALLY SAID - " Anyone who thinks that those 6 or 7 million Jews in Israel will be forced to pull stakes and simply give up aren't very logical."

No sane government would use nukes as anything but a very last ditch effort to survive - or, that failing, to destroy those who are destroying THEM. No Zionist evil in that stance, it's called MAD. Depending on the prevailing weather conditions Israel might survive relatively intact but that isn't really the issue, is it? The issue would be why that TINY, indeed, miniscule piece of land is so important to the whole world that we all seem willing to risk global annihilation to take it from the only people who ever really lived as a nation there. You can spew all the rhetoric you like but it really does get down to that simple point. The world is OBSESSED with that conflict over those few thousands of square miles of the Levant. We are all going to bleed in one way or another because of that obsession and that includes those safely(?) ensconced in Oz. A major war in that region will crush the economies of the world because of it's follow on effects on oil prices. Use of nukes would change EVERYTHING. Once any nation uses them again it will no longer be unthinkable. THEN we will find ourselves at the edge of the most dangerous abyss man has ever known. And for what? Really? So that Palestinians can live on land their family once owned(maybe) before the changes demanded by the world? I think I could even understand this sentiment if an agreement was struck allowing the Jews to keep at least a part of the land but the Palestinian leaders and people regularly give the lie to that idea. No, nothing less than the total removal of the Jew from the area would bring peace with the Palestinians. Even then, there are some who've said they'd have to search them out to destroy them. This is a supernatural hate and we all are being drawn into it.

[+and-then]

• four winds 10 net link
  

~

• foreign affairs link
  

~

In other words "I get what I want or no one gets anything ..."

Sounds plenty familiar ... now where have we heard it before ?

~

And what are they asking for? To live in peace and security on a tiny piece of land where their ancestors had a state once upon a time. Hey, if the world is so obsessed with righting a single wrong that is FAR less egregious than many horrors on the planet today then so be it. Let them conspire and come. As I said earlier, no one anywhere will live undisturbed once this little soiree begins.

[SHaYap]

And what are they asking for? To live in peace and security on a tiny piece of land where their ancestors had a state once upon a time. Hey, if the world is so obsessed with righting a single wrong that is FAR less egregious than many horrors on the planet today then so be it. Let them conspire and come. As I said earlier, no one anywhere will live undisturbed once this little soiree begins.

Sure ... what we need now is a 'Delilah'

~

[+and-then]

Sure ... what we need now is a 'Delilah'

~

As usual you are too "witty" by half. No offense to you sir but I have to tell you that you RARELY make a comprehensible statement. You really should try to dumb it down for the rest of us peons. 'Til then, good times just ahead for you. Israel is headed for some major troubles (in addition to the daily slaughter ongoing NOW) just ahead. That book of fairy stories says the whole world is going to come against them. Won't that be COOL?!! Alas, a third of them survive...

[SHaYap]

As usual you are too "witty" by half. No offense to you sir but I have to tell you that you RARELY make a comprehensible statement. You really should try to dumb it down for the rest of us peons. 'Til then, good times just ahead for you. Israel is headed for some major troubles (in addition to the daily slaughter ongoing NOW) just ahead. That book of fairy stories says the whole world is going to come against them. Won't that be COOL?!! Alas, a third of them survive...

As usual you forget that a Forum is a multiple way street ... you are responsible for your own traffic ... mundane as it is, as well as the burden of culpability ~ it is not that comprehension is the issue at hand, it is the lack of dictating factors available to yourself that you finds frustrating, I don't do dictating nor dictatorial, much apologies.

Regardless of your shallow, not to mention one sided interpretation of the 'fairy' story, as you so eloquently brought it up here, much to my disdain I must add, you do not nor has ever shown any conciliatory evidences on the veracity, much less validity on what you propose as 'prophetic' other than the reprehensible and utterly disagreeable bias on what you hope to dictate as the will of your preferred deity.

Suddenly you care about the slaughter now ?

How conveniently opprobrious ~

`

[+OverSword]

Reasonable people don't usually occupy land that belongs to others, nor oppresses and restricts them.

You start a war and lose the land that's just how things have always worked on planet earth. Before the USA occupied Mexico City in 1847 at the end of the Mexican/American war how much of the USA was labeled as Mexico? Seattle where I live was in Mexico, should we now give it back? Nope. So quit belly aching on behalf of the Palestinians, Nobody took they're land they, as the aggressors, lost it. Edited March 10, 2016 by OverSword

[RavenHawk]

You start a war and lose the land that's just how things have always worked on planet earth. Before the USA occupied Mexico City in 1847 at the end of the Mexican/American war how much of the USA was labeled as Mexico? Seattle where I live was in Mexico, should we now give it back? Nope. So quit belly aching on behalf of the Palestinians, Nobody took they're land they, as the aggressors, lost it.

Actually, it was never their land. It belonged to the Ottomans and then they gave that up to the British and the British abandoned it. What’s being labeled as Palestinian land is really open land for anyone to come take.

Recently I attended an anthropology talk at UNM on the Red Lady of El Miron from the Magdalenian period some 19,000 years ago and it got me thinking of just this. If we have to give back land to the original Homo inhabitants, then the Magdalenians need to return their land back to the Solutreans, eventually returning the land back to the Oldowan culture some 2.6 million years ago, undoing all of human history. Giving back land is one thing but what do we do with genes?

Caution, sarcasm warning – tongue-in-check...

Edited March 10, 2016 by RavenHawk

[+Hammerclaw]

Reasonable people don't usually occupy land that belongs to others, nor oppresses and restricts them.

You mean like my ancestors did to native North Americans and yours did did to native Australians?