Atheism predates Jesus by at least 500 years

[Still Waters]

To its adherents it is the ultimate modern belief system, the antidote to centuries of ignorance and superstition, while to its detractors it is the product of latter-day decadence and materialism.

But a new Cambridge University study argues that atheism is in fact one of the world's oldest religions - long predating Christianity and Islam.

Far from being the result of scientific breakthroughs or modern mass education, the belief that there were no gods was relatively common in the ancient world, research by Prof Tim Whitmarsh, a leading Cambridge classicist, concludes.

http://www.telegraph...as-atheism.html

[markdohle]

To its adherents it is the ultimate modern belief system, the antidote to centuries of ignorance and superstition, while to its detractors it is the product of latter-day decadence and materialism.

But a new Cambridge University study argues that atheism is in fact one of the world's oldest religions - long predating Christianity and Islam.

Far from being the result of scientific breakthroughs or modern mass education, the belief that there were no gods was relatively common in the ancient world, research by Prof Tim Whitmarsh, a leading Cambridge classicist, concludes.

http://www.telegraph...as-atheism.html

This is already known, so I don't see what he is saying as something new and shocking. Atheism means not accepting any theory of God that is presented by any religion. The reality of ( - ) is still a deep mystery and no name can quantify it. God is just a common used term to describe or try to get a hold on ( - ). Theism is a belief in a religion or philosophy that accepts some idea on God. for me to say this does not preclude revelation from ( - ).

Peace

mark

Edited February 16, 2016 by markdohle

[Sundew]

Anyone who has read the Bible can tell you that. King David lived roughly 1000 BC and wrote in Psalm 14:1 "The fool says in his heart, "There is no God." So atheists existed in his day and no doubt before hand. The study was merely 500 years too late in its dating.

[+OverSword]

Atheism is no doubt as old as theism.

[Wickian]

To its adherents it is the ultimate modern belief system, the antidote to centuries of ignorance and superstition, while to its detractors it is the product of latter-day decadence and materialism.

But a new Cambridge University study argues that atheism is in fact one of the world's oldest religions - long predating Christianity and Islam.

Far from being the result of scientific breakthroughs or modern mass education, the belief that there were no gods was relatively common in the ancient world, research by Prof Tim Whitmarsh, a leading Cambridge classicist, concludes.

http://www.telegraph...as-atheism.html

Atheism is the default state of being. Beliefs are something you're get either by being taught from a young age or as something you inherit from exposure to the environment you grew up in.

No one is born believing in Allah/God/Reptilians.

[psyche101]

To its adherents it is the ultimate modern belief system, the antidote to centuries of ignorance and superstition, while to its detractors it is the product of latter-day decadence and materialism.

But a new Cambridge University study argues that atheism is in fact one of the world's oldest religions - long predating Christianity and Islam.

Far from being the result of scientific breakthroughs or modern mass education, the belief that there were no gods was relatively common in the ancient world, research by Prof Tim Whitmarsh, a leading Cambridge classicist, concludes.

http://www.telegraph...as-atheism.html

Hard to believe this came from an institution like Cambridge.

Atheism is a relgion like abstinence is sex. Poorly worded, inaccurate, does anyone know how to contact that department? I'd love to email them.

And of course it would predate Jesus, Christianity stole a whole bunch of stuff from the Sumerians. Stands to reason, as long as tall tales exist, there will be people to challenge them.

Edited February 16, 2016 by psyche101

[XenoFish]

For as long as there have been gods, there have been those who don't believe in them. I quite fond of polyapatheism, because there are a whole lot of gods I don't care about.

[psyche101]

For as long as there have been gods, there have been those who don't believe in them. I quite fond of polyapatheism, because there are a whole lot of gods I don't care about.

[Stubbly_Dooright]

To its adherents it is the ultimate modern belief system, the antidote to centuries of ignorance and superstition, while to its detractors it is the product of latter-day decadence and materialism.

But a new Cambridge University study argues that atheism is in fact one of the world's oldest religions - long predating Christianity and Islam.

Far from being the result of scientific breakthroughs or modern mass education, the belief that there were no gods was relatively common in the ancient world, research by Prof Tim Whitmarsh, a leading Cambridge classicist, concludes.

http://www.telegraph...as-atheism.html

I would think it would have emerged long before and around the same time as well. Like any time in history, like today, we have a planet where various individuals with different mindsets and experiences would exist. Not all belief systems are going to be existing everywhere, especially so if it's a belief system. Of course, there are going to be Atheists, who have no choice but to not believe when certain situations and experiences counter attack the view points of belief.

Atheism is the default state of being. Beliefs are something you're get either by being taught from a young age or as something you inherit from exposure to the environment you grew up in.

No one is born believing in Allah/God/Reptilians.

I was going to say Gozer?? but then again, if I was going to joke about a reptilian god, I guess I would be wrong in thinking Gozer would be a part of that, even if fictional. http://ghostbusters.wikia.com/wiki/Cult_of_Gozer

Atheism is a relgion like abstinence is sex. Poorly worded, inaccurate, does anyone know how to contact that department? I'd love to email them.

I like that sentence I bolded in red. How aptly stated, I feel.

[Beefers]

Everybody is born an Atheist. Religion is taught.

[psyche101]

Everybody is born an Atheist. Religion is taught.

[EEHC]

Everybody is born an Atheist. Religion is taught.

Religion is indeed a set of doctrines and teachings developped by man but a belief in a Creator can be based purely on reason and the intuition of an inquiring mind. The first people in Ancient times who came up with the idea of God probably did so from intuitive thinking and philosophical musings.

Edited February 18, 2016 by EEHC

[psyche101]

Religion is indeed a set of doctrines and teachings developped by man but a belief in a Creator can be based purely on reason and the intuition of an inquiring mind. The first people in Ancient times who came up with the idea of God probably did so from intuitive thinking and philosophical musings.

Exactly, today we have much better information. 500 years ago, I would have been a theist because it was the best model we had at the time. We do not subscribe to Phlogiston anymore either.

[EEHC]

Exactly, today we have much better information. 500 years ago, I would have been a theist because it was the best model we had at the time. We do not subscribe to Phlogiston anymore either.

The findings of this Cambridge University study suggest that atheism was also common in the ancient world. It's nothing new. Disbelief, or non-belief in some form or another has always existed. It's still around today because it makes sense to some people. I personally think that rational theism or deism is perfectly compatible with modern scientific understanding. Some data may even be suggestive of an Intelligence behind the Universe but that's an opinion, of course.

Edited February 18, 2016 by EEHC

[+Nuclear Wessel]

Atheism is not inherently a religion, though; it is merely a lack of belief in god or gods. A religion is, by definition, merely a belief or set of beliefs concerned with the origin of the universe, generally involving some supernatural agency. Atheism != a belief... it is a lack thereof, therefore cannot be in any way be considered a religion. You could theoretically be a religious atheist as the notion of religion generally involves deities, but not always... but saying that atheism is "one of the world's oldest religions" is nonsense.

Edited February 18, 2016 by Nuclear Wessel

[psyche101]

The findings of this Cambridge University study suggest that atheism was also common in the ancient world. It's nothing new. Disbelief, or non-belief in some form or another has always existed.

??

Nothing new? Of course not, it is our natural state before indoctrination is forced upon one, or one is introduced to the idea. It is anything but a natural state or explanation. The very name "supernatural" Insists on it.

It's still around today because it makes sense to some people.

LOL, relgion did it's damndest to stamp it out but never can as long as a natural world exists!!

Makes sense to some people? It is observation of the Universe in motion around us!! Crikey Moses are you drunk or something? No offence, but these claims are pretty darn silly mate!!

I personally think that rational theism or deism is perfectly compatible with modern scientific understanding.

Your personal views are fine as long as they remain personal, I have seen and personally refuted your publically stated ID Claims, they are demonstrably false and completely contrived. The key word here is "think" that is what you "think" despite the evidence, you cherry pick your way through articles in an attempt to validate your personal claims, but you just fail mate, sorry, but you do.

And looking for scientists that have some level of faith only makes your argument look even worse. An appeal to authority means nothing, and is often the last desperate attempt in debate when it is hopelessly lost.

Some data may even be suggestive of an Intelligence behind the Universe but that's an opinion, of course.

Indeed it is opinion, several times now I have directed you toward Sean Carroll discussing this exact subject with WIlliam Laner Craig, and WLC makes all the same mistakes and misconceptions that you do when you present the same information. In fact, Sean Carroll makes him look rather silly as it becomes clear that WLC has no idea what he is talking about, but cherry picks bits to support his views, which when exposed by Carroll do not support his views at all.

You are making all the same errors WLC does with regards to your evidence of a finely tuned Universe.

[psyche101]

Atheism is not inherently a religion, though; it is merely a lack of belief in god or gods. A religion is, by definition, merely a belief or set of beliefs concerned with the origin of the universe, generally involving some supernatural agency. Atheism != a belief... it is a lack thereof, therefore cannot be in any way be considered a religion. You could theoretically be a religious atheist as the notion of religion generally involves deities, but not always... but saying that atheism is "one of the world's oldest religions" is nonsense.

Demonstrable nonsense, and one giant red flag to boot.

Atheism is a relgion like abstinence is a sex position.

[eight bits]

The thread is a nice illustration of how difficult it is to discuss somebody's idea if the somebody isn't here to discuss it. Still Waters relays John Bingham's report of having read or at least spoken with Tim Whitmarsh.

"Atheism is, of course, a Greek word," he explained.

No it isn't. Atheism is an English word, coined from Greek roots. Whatever Whitmarsh meant, he said something else. There are many words for that, explained isn't one of them.

This st least comes a little closer to the source: the University's press blurb for the new book.

http://www.cam.ac.uk...ans-as-religion

Unfortunately, the blurb opens with the classicist professor opining on neurology via electrical-repair-for-dummies, whether we are "wired" for belief in religion. I personally agree that we are not wired to believe any proposition, but the observation of 2500 year-old disbelievers in mythology adds nothing to the case.

The idea from Whitmarsh which I think is struggling to get out from the sales literature is that despite cultural differences, the progress of knowledge, etc., the basic human congitive architecture has been fairly stable for several millennia. There was adequate knowledge in classical times to observe anomalies in myths, which may not ever have been seriously presented as fact claims anyway. Too bad he's not here to tell me if that's even close.

[Stubbly_Dooright]

Religion is indeed a set of doctrines and teachings developped by man but a belief in a Creator can be based purely on reason and the intuition of an inquiring mind. The first people in Ancient times who came up with the idea of God probably did so from intuitive thinking and philosophical musings.

I'm sorry, but how is it actually coming up the idea of God exactly then? Was God invented to put in the space? I can understand the intuitive thinking, and the philosophical musings, but there are many paths the results from that can go down. I feel my own path is like that, from my secular upbringing to my experiences in life, but I didn't go down the Christian path, I went down mine. And, it was with the secular thinking of seeing reality right in front of me.

Exactly, today we have much better information. 500 years ago, I would have been a theist because it was the best model we had at the time. We do not subscribe to Phlogiston anymore either.

Ok, this makes sense.

I do feel, though putting EEHC's and psyche's posts together, and I feel there might be a way of how it is looked and what does happen really to those who either go down an Atheist's path or a believer's. Like me.

The findings of this Cambridge University study suggest that atheism was also common in the ancient world. It's nothing new. Disbelief, or non-belief in some form or another has always existed. It's still around today because it makes sense to some people. I personally think that rational theism or deism is perfectly compatible with modern scientific understanding. Some data may even be suggestive of an Intelligence behind the Universe but that's an opinion, of course.

Yeah me too.

Atheism is not inherently a religion, though; it is merely a lack of belief in god or gods. A religion is, by definition, merely a belief or set of beliefs concerned with the origin of the universe, generally involving some supernatural agency. Atheism != a belief... it is a lack thereof, therefore cannot be in any way be considered a religion. You could theoretically be a religious atheist as the notion of religion generally involves deities, but not always... but saying that atheism is "one of the world's oldest religions" is nonsense.

Good point. I sometimes wonder at how some in Atheism have some form of 'practicing' or going to a 'place' at a once a week situation, when you are actually just doing things that could be anything.

??

Nothing new? Of course not, it is our natural state before indoctrination is forced upon one, or one is introduced to the idea. It is anything but a natural state or explanation. The very name "supernatural" Insists on it.

LOL, relgion did it's damndest to stamp it out but never can as long as a natural world exists!!

Makes sense to some people? It is observation of the Universe in motion around us!! Crikey Moses are you drunk or something? No offence, but these claims are pretty darn silly mate!!

Your personal views are fine as long as they remain personal, I have seen and personally refuted your publically stated ID Claims, they are demonstrably false and completely contrived. The key word here is "think" that is what you "think" despite the evidence, you cherry pick your way through articles in an attempt to validate your personal claims, but you just fail mate, sorry, but you do.

And looking for scientists that have some level of faith only makes your argument look even worse. An appeal to authority means nothing, and is often the last desperate attempt in debate when it is hopelessly lost.

Indeed it is opinion, several times now I have directed you toward Sean Carroll discussing this exact subject with WIlliam Laner Craig, and WLC makes all the same mistakes and misconceptions that you do when you present the same information. In fact, Sean Carroll makes him look rather silly as it becomes clear that WLC has no idea what he is talking about, but cherry picks bits to support his views, which when exposed by Carroll do not support his views at all.

You are making all the same errors WLC does with regards to your evidence of a finely tuned Universe.

Yeah, when it is in the form of I think, it is their opinion. But I agree with you. The reality of the world, and it's evidences to it, does to me, show how things really are.

The word supernatural, I guess is the word sometimes to describe it. I would say mysterious, but that's me.

I maybe in the same line of what I believe, and sometimes feel a 'mysterious' situation is still there, but I know, evidences of realistic and natural situations are what is a default. I just think, that there is so much more, that is still................ 'out there', that you cannot explain, ...just yet.

But, I would agree with you, psyche.

Demonstrable nonsense, and one giant red flag to boot.

Atheism is a relgion like abstinence is a sex position.

Again, loooooove that phrase!!! :D

[Davros of Skaro]

All of us come from a long line of ACaptain Crunchists.

[Stubbly_Dooright]

All of us come from a long line of ACaptain Crunchists.

Well, good. We don't need no silly rabbits.

[Podo]

Atheism is the default state of being. Beliefs are something you're get either by being taught from a young age or as something you inherit from exposure to the environment you grew up in.

No one is born believing in Allah/God/Reptilians.

That's exactly what a reptilian would say

[Mr Walker]

Atheism is the default state of being. Beliefs are something you're get either by being taught from a young age or as something you inherit from exposure to the environment you grew up in.

No one is born believing in Allah/God/Reptilians.

Actually science says that humans construct the concept of gods as individuals what ever environment they live in, beginning with the identification of agents which cause change. Infants construct the idea of invisible agents which make all the inexplicable changes in their lives happen, and this form of thinking goes on into adulthood, even as we gain more knowledge and learn other forms of thinking

It is the FIRST form of human thought / cognitive processing, and thus, if we have a default setting, it is one of beliefs, which we construct from birth. Culture and parenting can shape the form of belief or even cause it to be abandoned,. but we cannot learn as very young children without constructing belief structures in our brain, because our cognitive process insists on our mind making sense of things, even when it lacks data to do so accurately. . Atheism is NOT simply not knowing /experiencing gods, or else dogs would be called atheists The choice between theism or atheism is a conscious self aware process which only humans can make, and grows with our mental capacity as we connect our mind to the world outside us. If a child is born without belief that does not make it an atheist any more than all non human animals are atheists or a rock is an atheist. As soon as it begins to think and process external information, it constructs concepts of gods ( powerful, invisible, change causing agents, with their own intent and purpose.)

Edited February 18, 2016 by Mr Walker

[Podo]

Actually science says that humans construct the concept of gods as individuals what ever environment they live in, beginning with the identification of agents which cause change. Infants the construct the idea of invisible agents which make all the inexplicable changes in their lives happen, and this form of thinking goes on into adulthood, even as we gain more knowledge and learn other forms of thinking

It is the FIRST form of human thought / cognitive processing, and thus, if we have a default setting, it is one of beliefs which we construct from birth. Culture and parenting can shape the form of belief or even cause it to be abandoned,. but we cannot learn as very young children without constructing belief structures in our brain, because our cognitive process insists on our mind making sense of things, even when it lacks data to do so accurately. . Atheism is NOT simply not knowing /experiencing gods, or else dogs would be called atheists The choice betwen theism or atheism is a conscious self aware process only humans can make, and grows with our mental capacity as we connect our mind to the world outside us. If a child is born without belief tha t does not make it an atheist any more tha all non human animals are atheists As soon as it begins to think and process external information, it constructs concepts of gods ( powerful, invisible, change causing agents, with their own intent and purpose.)

Science says this? Which scientists? Which studies? Where is the source showing that we have a default of "belief"?

[Mr Walker]

Everybody is born an Atheist. Religion is taught.

See my post above The concept of gods is self constructed in all self aware entities (ie humans) with working brains and minds. No one has to teach a child that gods exist, they construct this belief to explain so much that otherwise does not make sense in their very young minds.

The first conscious construction of human thought in this realm is one of belief. It is disbelief which must be taught or learned from others. (or discovered as a adult when other forms of thinking and a greater understanding of the world might let a person question the existence of those gods).