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XenoFish

Choose your poison.

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Stubbly_Dooright

Don't get me wrong I said I don't need a religion that doesn't mean I'm not spiritual . I don't need a religion to tell me how to believe and not believe

I have a feeling, a lot here do understand that. I myself, identify with it. I'm not practicing in any form of religion, but I feel I have my own strong spirituality never the less. :yes:

I guess the BoS is their text; it should contain what they have learnt in it and the rituals they have done ( preliminary intro first and second degree ). Traditionally one was given a copy and copied it put into one's own book, then added to it.

So in a way, it is a 'sacred' book' that is always evolving ... and also in some cases, contains part of the personal record.

But the originals were taken ( based on ) other sources , specifically the degree rituals and the 'Great Rite' ... even the 'Rede' have roots in Thelemic writings and documents. Early on they were re-written and have been adapted ever since. Nowadays a 'Book of Shadows can be anything ..... even a blank book with a fake leather cover one uses more like a diary.

Huh! I didn't know that. I found that informative. :) Interesting too. I tend to see it filed in the Wicca section in the book store. I'm going to check out the many books next time. :yes:

I had several notebooks full of rituals, spells, and experiments I'd had done. Burned a lot of them. I never liked to follow any books or set paths.

I feel this way about my belief. Likend it to New Age, but do not want to follow what the books and various set ways say one should do. I guess that is why I say I'm a Bohemian New Ager. I think my beliefs are all spiritual, relying on the similarities of various New Age beliefs, but unorthodox in it.
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Stubbly_Dooright

Gardnerian Wiccans do rely a lot on the Book of Shadows for some of their practices but it's nothing like the central role of the Bible or Koran in Judeo-Christian religions for exemple. The BOS is really more a collection of spells and texts borrowed from various sources (such as Crowley, Charles Godfrey Leland ect.)

Is this close to what GmG and bte was telling me?
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back to earth

....., and that the site somehow became taboo

Like you have .

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back to earth

Is this close to what GmG and bte was telling me?

They are all correct in a way . You can buy an impressive looking blank Book of Shadow to fill in . Anything in the 'new Age' can be said to be a BoS .

Do I agree with that ?

:no: .... But I am an old fuddy duddy . :whistle:

IMO , a good BoS should contain the basics of the tradition you are in , the basic rites and rituals your coven does. These things have to come from somewhere . And it is no longer an oral tradition. The 'full BoS' (at least in the coven I was in ) was supposedly only held by the Priestess of the coven and only used by her (as it had the 3rd degree ritual in it - the ritual to make one a Priestess or Priest, and there are only 1 of each per coven, so the ritual need not be known by the others.

When the numbers get well beyond 13 , a 2nd degree may want to split off and form a new coven, if allowed, they would then do their 3rd degree / Priestess initiation , copy the ritual and related materials into their BoS and off they go .... with a working 'manual' to start a new coven .

One importat function is preservation in times of 'disaster'. In the past old working documents and records have been found, of defunct groups and resurrected from the materials found.

But nowadays there is a great range in how covens and Wicca works and that is reflected in, and concepts about 'Books of Shadow'.

I agree with EEHC that a BoS is nothing like a Koran or Bible .... I suppose the closest analogy there would be to look at Wiccan roots in Thelema , and the (sort of ) Thelemic 'Bible' ; The Book of the Law. Also a source of a lot of early Wicca :

" But to love me is better than all things: if under the night stars in the desert thou presently burnest mine incense before me, invoking me with a pure heart, and the Serpent flame therein, thou shalt come a little to lie in my bosom. For one kiss wilt thou then be willing to give all; but whoso gives one particle of dust shall lose all in that hour. Ye shall gather goods and store of women and spices; ye shall wear rich jewels; ye shall exceed the nations of the earth in spendour & pride; but always in the love of me, and so shall ye come to my joy. I charge you earnestly to come before me in a single robe, and covered with a rich headdress. I love you! I yearn to you! Pale or purple, veiled or voluptuous, I who am all pleasure and purple, and drunkenness of the innermost sense, desire you. Put on the wings, and arouse the coiled splendour within you: come unto me!

62. At all my meetings with you shall the priestess say -- and her eyes shall burn with desire as she stands bare and rejoicing in my secret temple -- To me! To me! calling forth the flame of the hearts of all in her love-chant.

63. Sing the rapturous love-song unto me! Burn to me perfumes! Wear to me jewels! Drink to me, for I love you! I love you!

64. I am the blue-lidded daughter of Sunset; I am the naked brilliance of the voluptuous night-sky. "

http://www.sacred-texts.com/oto/engccxx.htm

Ahhhhhhh ...... better than some rampaging Jealous saturnian Jehovah !

Edited by back to earth
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XenoFish

I like to think of the BoS as a journal. A good way to keep notes on whatever you've done.

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back to earth

Yes, many do that. For an individual, it makes sense. Sort of like a manual and 'magical diary' combined.

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Grandpa Greenman

I really depends on what kind of Wicca one follows. Gerald Gardner took from many sources when he and his coven first published "Witchcraft Today." Doreen Valiente was the one who is given credit for the Wiccan Rede. There are now a lot of different kind of Wicca. You got Gardnerian Wicca, Alexandrian Wicca, Seax Wicca, Dianic Wicca, Georgian Wicca, Celtic Wicca and so on. They all pretty much are doing their own thing. Most of have some type of BOS.

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back to earth

..... BTE 'Wicca' .....

1-240x180.jpg

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back to earth

'U.S, Military Wicca ' ;

falcon-circle-USAFA.jpg

USAFA_Cadet_Chapel_Falcon_CircleWcaption.jpg

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back to earth

soldiers-marching-by-1a.jpg

" I knew a girl in Paris, France ......

she rode on a broom with no underpants ..... "

Edited by back to earth

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Mr Walker

Like you have .

Finally!. Something actually clever and funny.

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Stubbly_Dooright

They are all correct in a way . You can buy an impressive looking blank Book of Shadow to fill in . Anything in the 'new Age' can be said to be a BoS .

Do I agree with that ?

:no: .... But I am an old fuddy duddy . :whistle:

Again, I'm reminded of the tv show, "Charmed" and that's what they did with their BoS.

I think back to your point about it and wonder is it close to this?

81fgTBm3-0L.jpg

IMO , a good BoS should contain the basics of the tradition you are in , the basic rites and rituals your coven does. These things have to come from somewhere . And it is no longer an oral tradition. The 'full BoS' (at least in the coven I was in ) was supposedly only held by the Priestess of the coven and only used by her (as it had the 3rd degree ritual in it - the ritual to make one a Priestess or Priest, and there are only 1 of each per coven, so the ritual need not be known by the others.

When the numbers get well beyond 13 , a 2nd degree may want to split off and form a new coven, if allowed, they would then do their 3rd degree / Priestess initiation , copy the ritual and related materials into their BoS and off they go .... with a working 'manual' to start a new coven .

One importat function is preservation in times of 'disaster'. In the past old working documents and records have been found, of defunct groups and resurrected from the materials found.

But nowadays there is a great range in how covens and Wicca works and that is reflected in, and concepts about 'Books of Shadow'.

I agree with EEHC that a BoS is nothing like a Koran or Bible .... I suppose the closest analogy there would be to look at Wiccan roots in Thelema , and the (sort of ) Thelemic 'Bible' ; The Book of the Law. Also a source of a lot of early Wicca :

" But to love me is better than all things: if under the night stars in the desert thou presently burnest mine incense before me, invoking me with a pure heart, and the Serpent flame therein, thou shalt come a little to lie in my bosom. For one kiss wilt thou then be willing to give all; but whoso gives one particle of dust shall lose all in that hour. Ye shall gather goods and store of women and spices; ye shall wear rich jewels; ye shall exceed the nations of the earth in spendour & pride; but always in the love of me, and so shall ye come to my joy. I charge you earnestly to come before me in a single robe, and covered with a rich headdress. I love you! I yearn to you! Pale or purple, veiled or voluptuous, I who am all pleasure and purple, and drunkenness of the innermost sense, desire you. Put on the wings, and arouse the coiled splendour within you: come unto me!

62. At all my meetings with you shall the priestess say -- and her eyes shall burn with desire as she stands bare and rejoicing in my secret temple -- To me! To me! calling forth the flame of the hearts of all in her love-chant.

63. Sing the rapturous love-song unto me! Burn to me perfumes! Wear to me jewels! Drink to me, for I love you! I love you!

64. I am the blue-lidded daughter of Sunset; I am the naked brilliance of the voluptuous night-sky. "

http://www.sacred-te...oto/engccxx.htm

Ahhhhhhh ...... better than some rampaging Jealous saturnian Jehovah !

I kind of think about how I like to non-materialistic in how I am guided, and not by a book. I know, it sounds weird, so I wonder if it is close this point here.
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Grandpa Greenman

Again, I'm reminded of the tv show, "Charmed" and that's what they did with their BoS.

I think back to your point about it and wonder is it close to this?

81fgTBm3-0L.jpg I kind of think about how I like to non-materialistic in how I am guided, and not by a book. I know, it sounds weird, so I wonder if it is close this point here.

Yup, that is the point. It is not weird. Mystery earth base religions are about learning from nature. I have a friend who is an active teacher of Witchcraft and the first thing she tells her students is put down the books and just do it.

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Podo

Yup, that is the point. It is not weird. Mystery earth base religions are about learning from nature. I have a friend who is an active teacher of Witchcraft and the first thing she tells her students is put down the books and just do it.

How does one "just do" witchcraft? You had my curiosity, but now you have my attention.

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StarMountainKid

Firstly, I think we should tolerate all posts in a thread, if we don't like the comment we can just ignore it. Seems simple to me.

I've always like the Zen experience and the Tao...ways of liberation. Just for me, becoming tangled in complex religious concepts is just another way of captivity. Although I understand the positive merits of religions, being connected to a religion can genuinely help people in their lives and is a positive experience for them.

But I also think leading an authentic life requires objectivity about imaginative make-believe concepts. I feel more secure as a human being living in the objective nature of reality. This may not be pleasant, but at least I'm no fooling myself.

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Grandpa Greenman

How does one "just do" witchcraft? You had my curiosity, but now you have my attention.

It is something you have to learn hands on and experience. That is why it is called a mystery religion.

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back to earth

so you cant 'just do it' , you have to learn how to do it.

However, if you see it as a 'love and appreciation of nature' , that might be easier to 'just do it ' .

There are many different approaches. Some use it as a good form of worship ... yes, some people have a need to express worship. The good thing about Wicca is it can be worship of the God and Goddess , these principles are reflected in male and female .

I know one or two women who are not impartial to some worship ( make a nice space, offer flowers and nice incense and good food, have a fire going .... )

Sometimes, for some people ( and I am one ) , enjoyment can come from seeing those you love have enjoyment ... it need not be 'all about you' .... also women have told me this attitude makes one quiet popular with women .

So every one is a winner ! (except the local church ;) )

- Wahoo ! Time to celebrate !

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Stubbly_Dooright

'U.S, Military Wicca ' ;

falcon-circle-USAFA.jpg

USAFA_Cadet_Chapel_Falcon_CircleWcaption.jpg

That's funny, considering about a decade ago, Christianity was heavenly influenced, and anything else was 'bullied'

http://www.washingto...5062200598.html

Don't get me wrong, I think it's great.

Edited by TheMustardLady
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back to earth

Yeah .... but "and harm none " ?

soldiers-marching-by-1a.jpg

" US Marines get the job done

and we do it by harming none "

?

nah :no: .... doesnt really work does it .

dont know about that in the military .... IMO, it is impractical to harm none .... unless you want to be a Jain.

PS . interesting article though .... highlights the usual problems and the church / state issue

Edited by back to earth
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psyche101

Cannot help it.....

Everytime I see the thread title, I start thinking........

s10074.jpg

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XenoFish

Come with me Psyche as well as my other friends in this tread. We shall worships some Evil Spirits together.

d0bc96457803420fa7ee74f7d31e7e71.jpg

May the spirits fill us with joy and drunkenness.

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DingoLingo

If you had to pick a religion or spiritual practice what would it be and why.

I'd go with Zen Buddhism. Here's why.

http://www.zen-buddhism.net/

Zen Buddhism is not a theory, an idea, or a piece of knowledge. It is not a belief, a dogma, or a religion; but rather, it is a practical experience.

I very nearly became a buddist

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Stubbly_Dooright

Yeah .... but "and harm none " ?

soldiers-marching-by-1a.jpg

" US Marines get the job done

and we do it by harming none "

?

nah :no: .... doesnt really work does it .

dont know about that in the military .... IMO, it is impractical to harm none .... unless you want to be a Jain.

PS . interesting article though .... highlights the usual problems and the church / state issue

I can see the oxy-moron here. I guess the military is there to fight for their country. I guess one can view it as a defensive over offensive..................... well maybe not in some cases, in fact, the other way around.

And you are probably more on point with the U.S. Marines. ( my late brother was one, before he crossed over into the Air Force) I really never saw this on my brother, but meeting other Marines, there was more intense and rigidness within them, than other branches. Their four core values, do not have honor your spouse within them, if I recall. Which ever............. *shrugs*

Remember, the Air Force which is the academy at Colorado Springs that was talked about, is a branch that is more into the skies and such. My husband was one, (enlisted) before he retired from it some years back. Not as 'stringent' as the Marines.

But my point, ( and I was confused, you are talking about the article I linked, right?) is that I'm glad to see members of the academy able to practice their belief there, when it was widely known, there was a big problem of indoctrination for one religion and everyone was hassled into one religion, some years ago. Atheists too. In which, it's ironic, our military is there to fight for our right to live free and free to practice or not to practice a particular religion. And yet, within it's culture, your pushing a way of life counterproductive to what it's goal is.

One base we were stationed at kind of changed toward that, before we left. When my kids were in the scouts there, it was more relaxed. There use to be a section near a center for everyone, not dealing with anything religion when lighting of the Christmas tree. ( I know, a particular religion being highlighted there. *shrugs* ) The colonel who spoke there during a lectures talked about teamwork and the joys of celebrations, and that was it.

The last year, things had changed, the tree lighting was at a particular church, and the colonel at the time spoke of religion and then ended it by 'advising highly' that everyone get a faith. I'm like :o ! I told a past leader of the scout troop whose family PCSed out of the base, and she was also :o about it too.

Fortunately, we never were harassed about us never going to church. There were church buildings, most known were a protestant church on one section of the base, and a Catholic church on another, and I do believe a Jewish temple in another section. I had read somewhere that these particular churches did hold Wiccan services too. My point though is, there should be places and services for everyone, and and a complete acceptance for those who don't. I think that is what is the point of it all.

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DingoLingo

Celtic Wicca and so on. They all pretty much are doing their own thing. Most of have some type of BOS.

that's me.. well kinda.. I'm a Celitc based pagan.. don't have the spiritual energy for the wicca side.. have bumped heads a few times with some of the high priest and priestesses over the years who are just running on a ego power trip.. though druidism is interesting.. and I am starting to lean towards norse beliefs.. One Eye Odin.. is really starting to ring the right bell with me..

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Sherapy

that's me.. well kinda.. I'm a Celitc based pagan.. don't have the spiritual energy for the wicca side.. have bumped heads a few times with some of the high priest and priestesses over the years who are just running on a ego power trip.. though druidism is interesting.. and I am starting to lean towards norse beliefs.. One Eye Odin.. is really starting to ring the right bell with me..

I think it is so awesome to read the diversity in Paganism. Thank you for sharing; I think it is an interesting path.

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