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EU referendum: 23 June date set for UK vote


Still Waters

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Britain will vote on whether to remain in the EU on Thursday 23 June, Prime Minister David Cameron has said.

The prime minister made his historic announcement in Downing Street after briefing the cabinet.

He said he would be campaigning to remain in a reformed EU - and described the vote as one of the biggest decisions "in our lifetimes".

http://www.bbc.co.uk...litics-35621079

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Hopefully as an ex-pat, I Will be able to vote and the answer will be out.

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Took long enough. Didn't one of the U.K parties promise a referendum a long time ago?

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Dear David is a clown who has ran around begging and trying to convince Europe to change their way of thinking towards us.The only reason Europe wants us to stay is that we give them loads of money, to support French Farmers and other nations who don't pay their people a decent living wage. When we extract ourselves from the Euro Manure heap Britain will be much better off . Cameron's so called Deal is a farce trying to con the British public into remaining a Country dominated by Europe. I am looking forward to voting Out with all my friends, as not one of them have said staying in Europe is a good thing.

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The whole re-negotiation as been a utter disgrace, The very fact a British Prime Minister as had to go to Europe to ask for powers which should naturally reside with any sovereign country/parliment. highlights the problems with the European Union. David Cameron said on day one before he even started to negotiate that he'd campaign to stay in. So no shock he's trying to fool the people he's secured a great deal for Britain. the Man is a disgrace to his office. He's meant to be the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom for heavens sake.

originally the re-negotiations were on matters of:

  • Taking back control over social and employment laws.

  • A complete opt-out from the Charter of Fundamental Rights.

  • Stopping the ECJ overruling our criminal law.

  • Stopping EU migrants coming to the UK without a job offer.

  • Removing EU jobseekers after six months.

  • Reforming the Working Time Directive.

  • Stopping the European Parliament meeting in two places.

  • Reforming the Common Agricultural Policy.

  • Reforming the EU's Structural Funds.

  • Changing the EU treaties before a referendum.

By the time Cameron walked out of the first round of "talks" this list was watered down to:

  • An emergency brake on welfare.

  • Child benefit.

  • Protection for non-Eurozone countries.

  • The red card system.

Its a complete joke: its so bad its not even funny. No-one can fall for this tripe surely. Nothing as changed: European Courts still supersede British Courts, We still cannot control immigration. we will still be a EU cash cow paying over a £Billion pounds a month to the EU. the UK fishing grounds still under EU control.

I just don't think we can take the risk of where the EU is heading because Since records began in 1996, the UK has not managed to prevent a single proposal placed in front of the Council of Ministers from becoming European law. This amounts to 55 measures that the UK opposed that have since become British law. Since 1973 the UK's voting power in the Council of Ministers has decreased from 17% to 8%, in the European Parliament it has decreased from 20% to 9.5% and in the European Commission it has decreased from 15% to 4%. The UK has about 12% of the EU's population, it provides only 5% of the EU's staff and the situation is set to get worse. More than four in 10 British officials will be enjoying their retirement by 2020 and, based on the number of applicants in recent years, most of them will not be replaced (junior roles have only a 1.2% UK entrance rate). Over the last European Parliamentary term (2009-14),a majority of British MEPs(across UK party lines) opposed 576 motions out of a total 1,936 thatwere put before the European Parliament .Of those 576 motions, 485 were nonetheless approved by the rest of the Parliament despite the opposition of a majority of British MEPs. This is a failure rate of 84%. This rises to 89% in Economic & Monetary affairs & 98% loss in Budget votes.We are the 2nd worst represented in the EU parliament after France:

(statement by)

Rt Honourable Michael Gove MP. Government Minister, Justice Secretary has Broken ranks and stated he will be going against the Prime Minister and will campaign, and Vote to leave.

For weeks now I have been wrestling with the most difficult decision of my political life. But taking difficult decisions is what politicians are paid to do. No-one is forced to stand for Parliament, no-one is compelled to become a minister. If you take on those roles, which are great privileges, you also take on big responsibilities.

I was encouraged to stand for Parliament by David Cameron and he has given me the opportunity to serve in what I believe is a great, reforming Government. I think he is an outstanding Prime Minister. There is, as far as I can see, only one significant issue on which we have differed.

And that is the future of the UK in the European Union.

http://blogs.spectat...-backing-leave/

My view is, besides all the sovereignty issues i've highlighted numerous times on here, the Fact that the EU has moved on far beyond being a trading block and is now on course turning into a Federation, that is the end game: But the realities of today are the EU has hit the iceberg, its sinking, the captain (the commission) has ordered the band to continue playing while they re-arrange the deck chairs. but it doesn't matter, nothing will save the EU now, with every decision they make it ends in crisis, lurching from crisis to crisis, Ukraine, to the Eurozone crisis to Libya, to the immigration migrant crisis.7

It doesn't matter if we vote to leave or remain, the only guarantee is the EU is collapsing, But today we have presented ourself with a perfect opportunity to minimise our exposure to the inevitable fallout, with the ship sinking and not enough life boats on-board, why wait for it to sink beneath the waves before we make a move? at least if we leave the ship now we stand a chance of swimming clear before being dragged under with the rest of them. It'll be better for Britain to leave now, etc..establish our own trade deals and increase our % of trade with non EU countries, because if we remain on-board we'll soon find ourselves in the water with the rest of them all clamouring for trade deals etc,..it'll be better to leave now than be trying to negotiate with 27 other survivors. We can be on dry land and secure before the rest of them hit the water.

Edited by Still Waters
Trimmed quote for length & added source link
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Well, that's just typical of the stupidity of the idiot Cameron isn't it, to time it to clash with one of the biggest events of they year..

Does the buffoon not do any research beforehand?

But was it a deliberate clash in order to sabotage the No vote? Does he assume that Glasto-goers are likely to vote No? Nothing should be put past the Machiavellian deviousness of this man. Don't be fooled by that hapless, smug, chubby exterior. :angry:

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I just hope the out campaign gets its act together because I have a horrible suspicion your average UK citizen doesn't really know a great deal about euro politics.

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I just hope the out campaign gets its act together because I have a horrible suspicion your average UK citizen doesn't really know a great deal about euro politics.

where you are quite right, the general knowledge (even of detractors) about the EU Britons have is that poprtrayed in the show "Yes Minister" or in the rantings of one Mr. Farage. But given that, it is a good indication that nobody cares. If nobody cares it is time to pack up and leave. In a group you either lead, you follow or you get out of the way.

Edited by questionmark
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where you are quite right, the general knowledge (even of detractors) about the EU Britons have is that portrayed in the show "Yes Minister"

Which, many politicians say, was a lot nearer the truth than anything they'd tell you officially.
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Will it be as skewered towards the result the PM personally wants (in this case, staying in the EU) as the referendum we had in Oz over becoming a Republic?

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Well, that's just typical of the stupidity of the idiot Cameron isn't it, to time it to clash with one of the biggest events of they year..

Does the buffoon not do any research beforehand?

But was it a deliberate clash in order to sabotage the No vote? Does he assume that Glasto-goers are likely to vote No? Nothing should be put past the Machiavellian deviousness of this man. Don't be fooled by that hapless, smug, chubby exterior. :angry:

They can register for postal votes.

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They can register for postal votes.

theoretically yes, but it's another load of hassle isn't it. Anyway, since it's so easy to vote fraudulently (you don't even need to show your Polling Card, they just tick off your name on the list and bob's your uncle) I'm sure it wouldn't be too difficult to get someone to do it for you.

What' that? Oh, is that illegal? Oh. :innocent:

Edited by Otto von Pickelhaube
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I just hope the out campaign gets its act together because I have a horrible suspicion your average UK citizen doesn't really know a great deal about euro politics.

that's why most will probably vote with their gut instinct. But on the other hand surely anyone motivated enough to vote in the referendum will take an interest, and if they believe in Democracy then they'd only be left with one choice, and that's Vote to leave. When the democratic ability to remove unelected bureaucrats, who are making laws and regulations that affect everyone's life no longer exists then am afraid its not Democracy.

As stated by our Government Justice minister said yesterday:

My starting point is simple. I believe that the decisions which govern all our lives, the laws we must all obey and the taxes we must all pay should be decided by people we choose and who we can throw out if we want change. If power is to be used wisely, if we are to avoid corruption and complacency in high office, then the public must have the right to change laws and Governments at election time.

But our membership of the European Union prevents us being able to change huge swathes of law and stops us being able to choose who makes critical decisions which affect all our lives. Laws which govern citizens in this country are decided by politicians from other nations who we never elected and can’t throw out. We can take out our anger on elected representatives in Westminster but whoever is in Government in London cannot remove or reduce VAT, cannot support a steel plant through troubled times, cannot build the houses we need where they’re needed and cannot deport all the individuals who shouldn’t be in this country. I believe that needs to change. And I believe that both the lessons of our past and the shape of the future make the case for change compelling.

The ability to choose who governs us, and the freedom to change laws we do not like, were secured for us in the past by radicals and liberals who took power from unaccountable elites and placed it in the hands of the people. As a result of their efforts we developed, and exported to nations like the US, India, Canada and Australia a system of democratic self-government which has brought prosperity and peace to millions.

Our democracy stood the test of time. We showed the world what a free people could achieve if they were allowed to govern themselves.

In Britain we established trial by jury in the modern world, we set up the first free parliament, we ensured no-one could be arbitrarily detained at the behest of the Government, we forced our rulers to recognise they ruled by consent not by right, we led the world in abolishing slavery, we established free education for all, national insurance, the National Health Service and a national broadcaster respected across the world.

By way of contrast, the European Union, despite the undoubted idealism of its founders and the good intentions of so many leaders, has proved a failure on so many fronts. The euro has created economic misery for Europe’s poorest people. European Union regulation has entrenched mass unemployment. EU immigration policies have encouraged people traffickers and brought desperate refugee camps to our borders.

The EU is built to keep power and control with the elites rather than the people. Even though we are outside the euro we are still subject to an unelected EU commission which is generating new laws every day and an unaccountable European Court in Luxembourg which is extending its reach every week, increasingly using the Charter of Fundamental Rights which in many ways gives the EU more power and reach than ever before. This growing EU bureaucracy holds us back in every area. EU rules dictate everything from the maximum size of containers in which olive oil may be sold (five litres) to the distance houses have to be from heathland to prevent cats chasing birds (five kilometres).

Individually these rules may be comical. Collectively, and there are tens of thousands of them, they are inimical to creativity, growth and progress. Rules like the EU clinical trials directive have slowed down the creation of new drugs to cure terrible diseases and ECJ judgements on data protection issues hobble the growth of internet companies. As a minister I’ve seen hundreds of new EU rules cross my desk, none of which were requested by the UK Parliament, none of which I or any other British politician could alter in any way and none of which made us freer, richer or fairer.

It is hard to overstate the degree to which the EU is a constraint on ministers' ability to do the things they were elected to do, or to use their judgment about the right course of action for the people of this country. I have long had concerns about our membership of the EU but the experience of Government has only deepened my conviction that we need change. Every single day, every single minister is told: 'Yes Minister, I understand, but I'm afraid that's against EU rules'. I know it. My colleagues in government know it. And the British people ought to know it too: your government is not, ultimately, in control in hundreds of areas that matter.

Poll sample of 11,000 people. has the poll at:

Vote to Leave 56%

Vote to Remain 35%

Undecided 9%

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Well, that's just typical of the stupidity of the idiot Cameron isn't it, to time it to clash with one of the biggest events of they year..

Does the buffoon not do any research beforehand?

But was it a deliberate clash in order to sabotage the No vote? Does he assume that Glasto-goers are likely to vote No? Nothing should be put past the Machiavellian deviousness of this man. Don't be fooled by that hapless, smug, chubby exterior. :angry:

:D

do not fret Otto --- they can vote on Thursday morning and then proceed to Glastonbury -

.

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Poll sample of 11,000 people. has the poll at:

Vote to Leave 56%

Vote to Remain 35%

Undecided 9%

thing is Steve --- Cameron would not have called for it now if he wasn't feeling pretty confident about getting a 'stay' outcome --

whether he has judged it correctly (from his standpoint) we will see --

the bookies are all very much going for a 'stay' result --- at the moment ---- but I'm thinking that the Stay/Leave odds will probably come closer together as we get nearer to voting day -

http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/eu-referendum/referendum-on-eu-membership-result

The result isn't a foregone conclusion though IMO ---

.

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because I know bee is fond of them, here's a musical interlude.

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.

One of the main points of the Remain in Europe side is the safety and security factor --- they keep saying that leaving is a 'leap in the dark' and similar things that can create fear ---

But is this really true... Merkel/Germany has recently put Europe into a serious crisis regarding migrants which includes Militant Islamic Jihadists having no problem entering European countries ready for future acts of war...

Is this an example of EU democracy... when one leader can take it upon themselves to just invite millions of migrants/refugees into Europe without considering the affects on other countries or even the migrants themselves --- all of Europe is affected but all of Europe didn't make the decision...?

Nige as always has some very sensible things to say and has his finger on the pulse ---

For example this ..... which calls into question how much '''safer''' are we when EU seems to have a foreign policy that could stir up a lot of trouble and might not make us safer and more secure at all ----

(3.26 mins)

Nigel Farage: Stop playing wargames with Putin

.

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Once again, I think ol' Nige and the Donald are about the only politicians or would-be politicians that really have any sense. Which is why the state-controlled media work so hard to marginalise them and rubbish them as rabid xenophobes and what have you.

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Once again, I think ol' Nige and the Donald are about the only politicians or would-be politicians that really have any sense. Which is why the state-controlled media work so hard to marginalise them and rubbish them as rabid xenophobes and what have you.

yeah ----

I can't help remembering when during the last General Election how a lorry full of votes went missing for hours and then --- surprise surprise --- Nige lost --

I wonder if Trump might have vote rigging problems as well ---

And I hope Cameron's confidence to call for the referendum doesn't mean that there will be shenanigans with vote rigging and the referendum...?

Oh and re state controlled media --- when Sky News runs a story about whether Boris will come forward to lead the Leave side or not --- they show pictures of him in his cycling gear looking very scruffy wearing a woolley hat - looking more like a down-and-out than a serious politician ---

But I'm SURE they don't do this on purpose....../sarcasm.......

:whistle:

disclaimer ..... vote rigging is a very serious business and the above comments were pure speculation ( :no: )... ;)

.

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thing is Steve --- Cameron would not have called for it now if he wasn't feeling pretty confident about getting a 'stay' outcome --

whether he has judged it correctly (from his standpoint) we will see --

the bookies are all very much going for a 'stay' result --- at the moment ---- but I'm thinking that the Stay/Leave odds will probably come closer together as we get nearer to voting day -

http://www.oddscheck...mbership-result

The result isn't a foregone conclusion though IMO ---

.

We have a long way to go, many twists and turns lay ahead, But all the out campaign as to do is present facts about sovereignty being eroded, and just what powers we've lost to the EU. The "Remain" campaign will fight the issue on trade, jobs & security. all things which the Leave campaign can point to positive Alternatives, so win the day on that argument. But ultimately the British will be shocked to learn the full extent on the loss of sovereignty.

Did we really over 70 years ago, defend to the death our Sovereignty just to give it up to a foreign unelected power today 71 years later? Did We really fight on the seas and oceans, Did we defend our Island, whatever the cost may be? Did we fight them on the beaches, Did we fight them on the landing grounds, Did we fight in the fields and in the streets, and in the Hills, just to throw it all away today? No was the answer and the answer today should remain the same we shall never surrender - our Sovereignty. - to No-one, No-thing, and especially Not a Foreign Power in the guise of the European Union.

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56% in favor? That's pretty significant.

Will the UK put out EU citizens who are lazing about the British landscape/cityscape?

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Well, that's just typical of the stupidity of the idiot Cameron isn't it, to time it to clash with one of the biggest events of they year..

Does the buffoon not do any research beforehand?

But was it a deliberate clash in order to sabotage the No vote? Does he assume that Glasto-goers are likely to vote No? Nothing should be put past the Machiavellian deviousness of this man. Don't be fooled by that hapless, smug, chubby exterior. :angry:

Having read your post, it got me thinking was there any possibility of a deliberate clash. So i went over to the EU website to have a look at the summit Calendar, and in June there is on: 23rd & 24th a Summit of the European Council. Our UK Referendum date being on the 23rd, and Results declared by the 24th. - This might be the reason for the date: it ties with the EU council meeting.

http://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/meetings/european-council/2016/06/23-24/

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Hitler tried to unite Europe using Blitzkrieg. Lightning War. And here now it has happened due to economic "warfare" such that people are beating down the figurative door to get in.

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Well, that's just typical of the stupidity of the idiot Cameron isn't it, to time it to clash with one of the biggest events of they year..

Does the buffoon not do any research beforehand?

But was it a deliberate clash in order to sabotage the No vote? Does he assume that Glasto-goers are likely to vote No? Nothing should be put past the Machiavellian deviousness of this man. Don't be fooled by that hapless, smug, chubby exterior. :angry:

I think we can do without the vote of the sheeple who go to Glastonbury. A lot of them are the offspring of chinless wonders who voted us in the EU in the 1970's. They most likely want the UK to gather together with the rest of Europe like they gather together in the mud and Sh... making complete tools of themselves.

Second thoughts Glastonbury is quite a good representation of Europe's problems at the moment.

A mass group of people heading to an area they are not native too, living in tents, messing the place up and generally behaving badly upsetting the people who have lived in that area for years.

Edited by skookum
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