EU referendum: 23 June date set for UK vote

[Black Monk]

They've done the same with Ex-military Chiefs, the Government havewrote to retired Army Generals, Admirals etc.. Who say we are safer in Europe. - The Government has already had to apologise to a former Ex-military leader for using his name on the letter without permission. People have taken to Internet media sites, internet forums & social media to criticise the the falsehood of we are safer as part of EU.

I said on here before all this started the Remain in Campaign will play on project fear - Job losses, Trade/Economy and Security. they have nothing else.

All thats been highlighted so far is how inept our Government is, and they've been rightly criticised: first it was the FTSE 100 companies, FAILED and today Retired military leaders FAILED.

Is it me, or have some newspaper websites started to church out more pro-REMAIN propaganda right after Boris announced he's batting for the LEAVE side? I think they're probably getting a bit nervous.

And those army chiefs writing letters to newspapers saying Britain is safer in Europe are just deluding themselves and are not fooling most of the British public. Britain is in greater danger within the EU as a result of the EU freedom of movement rule and Merkel naively allowing in thousands of Muslim rapists and terrorists into Germany - all of whom will be free to come to Britain. Britain can't properly secure her borders and make her people safer unless she leaves the EU.

Edited February 24, 2016 by Black Monk

[spud the mackem]

Is it me, or have some newspaper websites started to church out more pro-REMAIN propaganda right after Boris announced he's batting for the LEAVE side? I think they're probably getting a bit nervous.

And those army chiefs writing letters to newspapers saying Britain is safer in Europe are just deluding themselves and are not fooling most of the British public. Britain is in greater danger within the EU as a result of the EU freedom of movement rule and Merkel naively allowing in thousands of Muslim rapists and terrorists into Germany - all of whom will be free to come to Britain. Britain can't properly secure her borders and make her people safer unless she leaves the EU.

This statement makes me L.O.L .....safer in Europe, what a load of K. rap, Did any of the Euro trash help us out in WW2, NO repeat NO. it was the Americans and the Commonwealth countries apart from a few resistance guys. We should now be setting up trading partners with the whole world not including Europe.

[Space Commander Travis]

Don't mention the war!

It's ok, I did once but I think I got away with it!

[Black Monk]

This statement makes me L.O.L .....safer in Europe, what a load of K. rap, Did any of the Euro trash help us out in WW2, NO repeat NO. it was the Americans and the Commonwealth countries apart from a few resistance guys. We should now be setting up trading partners with the whole world not including Europe.

It's also been revealed that an army top brass is angry because his name was included amongst the signatories of that letter that army top brass wrote to a national newspaper even though he had no part to play in the letter at all.

[Black Monk]

Big business backing the ‘In’ campaign shows us what’s wrong with the EU

http://blogs.spectat...ng-with-the-eu/

Edited February 25, 2016 by Black Monk

[stevewinn]

Big business backing the ‘In’ campaign shows us what’s wrong with the EU

http://blogs.spectat...ng-with-the-eu/

Big Business like Big Government, that's why i thought it was so telling when the Majority of the FTSE 100 didn't reply to the Prime Ministers letter asking for their backing. On the point of those bosses who backed the PM, not one of them in the list is an entrepreneur, and out of the 36, who put their name to the letter, 24 of them are not even British.

[skookum]

Big Business like Big Government, that's why i thought it was so telling when the Majority of the FTSE 100 didn't reply to the Prime Ministers letter asking for their backing. On the point of those bosses who backed the PM, not one of them in the list is an entrepreneur, and out of the 36, who put their name to the letter, 24 of them are not even British.

Maybe they should ask what's left Fisherman and Farmers how they feel about being in the EU.

I somehow think they wont.

[Space Commander Travis]

Well, guess what I was given in my change yesterday! A Euro!! A Greek one, to add insult to injury!

We'll be having no more of that nonsense come the Glorious Day.

[stevewinn]

Well, guess what I was given in my change yesterday! A Euro!! A Greek one, to add insult to injury!

We'll be having no more of that nonsense come the Glorious Day.

I'd keep it, as a memento. I would put it in clear resin, and have it in a small picture frame in a prominent position within your home, it would encourage visitors to ask why on earth have you got a Euro in a picture frame. - Then you can take great pleasure explaining how the Dream that was a Federal Europe collapsed.

[stevewinn]

[spud the mackem]

I think its time for Cam to go , he is doing more damage to his party than good, disagreeing and rowing with all around him, if some of his ministers are saying out he is trying to bully them into changing their minds. The people will decide and Cam will be history.

[stevewinn]

I think its time for Cam to go , he is doing more damage to his party than good, disagreeing and rowing with all around him, if some of his ministers are saying out he is trying to bully them into changing their minds. The people will decide and Cam will be history.

He needs to stay until the Referendum. But the way he's behaving in response to his EU negotiation getting ripped apart. he might well find himself on the end of a Party no-confidence vote.

[stevewinn]

I don't know if anyone watched Question time this week, But it got me thinking, Its no wonder the Political elite want to remain in the EU, because doing so allows them to have the privilege, title and the power of being in Government, but they don't have nor want the responsibility that goes along with that. Many of them are happy to hide behind EU rules & regulations. Its convenient for them, Michael Gove the Justice sectary stated everyday new EU rules arrive on his desk, rules we never asked for or wanted, and whenever he tries to change or reform the words which follow are you cant do that, it would break EU rules.

So if this is happening in Government Departments it makes the life of our elected leaders much simpler. look at Liz Truss as a fine example she was on question time this week, She's the current Government Secretary of State for Environment, Food & Rural Affairs. A Government Department heavily burdened by EU rules and Regulations. So the Minister is basically not needed, you can put a second rate, third, fourth or fifth rate minister in that department. and that's exactly what David Cameron has done, he promoted

way above her ability, but it was a fail safe option. In the department she has little or no control over thanks to the EU, plus it ticks a box of having a woman as part of the Cabinet.

If we vote to leave the EU, no longer can Government ministers hide behind the EU for when things don't work, or go wrong. for once in over half a century our Political leaders will be exposed as the failed second rates they are. Its no wonder they are panicking. If the British Public vote to leave they'll be faced with accountability and responsibility how many Government ministers and opposition Ministers will be exposed as complete and utter failures.

That's why i say to the Ministers who are scaremongering about leaving the EU, if you cannot do the First rate job in a independent United Kingdom, then step aside and allow someone who can.

Something which concerned me, which was highlighted on Question time. Was the Prime Minister has banned the Civil servants from helping the leave campaign.

Civil servants banned from helping EU out campaigners

Civil servants have been banned from helping ministers make the case for leaving the EU, prompting claims the establishment is lined up against them. Michael Gove and other ministers campaigning for Britain's exit will also be unable to use official briefings to prepare campaign speeches. But civil servants will be allowed to help ministers arguing for Britain to "remain in a reformed EU", No 10 said. UKIP described the move as a "total stitch-up". The rule change was announced by Cabinet Secretary Sir Jeremy Heywood.

Downing Street said civil servants and special advisers should not give ministers campaigning for the UK to leave the EU access to government papers, apart from ones they have already seen, on the referendum or David Cameron's EU renegotiations.

What are they worried about? that the truth will be exposed, such matters as loss of sovereignty etc.. It highlights that the case for leaving is greater than remain. either way its a disgrace. I just hope that civil servants within the corridors of power will accidentally on purpose leak the information to Minister of the leave campaign. nuggets of information which we have the right to know.

[Border Collie]

This statement makes me L.O.L .....safer in Europe, what a load of K. rap, Did any of the Euro trash help us out in WW2, NO repeat NO. it was the Americans and the Commonwealth countries apart from a few resistance guys. We should now be setting up trading partners with the whole world not including Europe.

Are you serious? How little you know about the 39-45 war.

For example, to mention one country only: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_Armed_Forces_in_the_West

Unless this is some form of subtle sarcasm I did not pick up, I am ashamed to share nationality with someone who could say that "only a few resistance guys"..."helped us out." Unbelievable ignorance.

[LV-426]

Are you serious? How little you know about the 39-45 war.

For example, to mention one country only: https://en.m.wikiped...ces_in_the_West

Indeed. I haven't read the link, but I assume it mentions the significant role the Polish pilots (amongst other nations) played in the Battle of Britain.

It's also worth pointing out that it couldn't have been an easy task mustering experienced pilots from Nazi-occupied European countries, and the Polish pilots were supposedly amongst the most experienced.

None of “The Few” should be forgotten.

[bee]

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Sky news are definitely banging the drum for the Stay In side --

lots of emphasis about the projected affect on jobs -- and employers were also saying they were concerned about how the make up of the work force would also change if we left the EU --- then I thought ---hang on a minute they are worried that the workers coming in from poorer EU countries wouldn't be so available to work for low wages - - - so who exactly is going to lose jobs?

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[bee]

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I was quite surprised to read in the local paper that Karen Lumley - conservative MP for where I live -- is in the Out camp -

I thought she was more of a Cameron loyalist but apparently not ---

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[Grey Area]

I thought she was more of a Cameron loyalist but apparently not ---

I think we are going to see exactly where quite a few loyalties lie before the summer arrives, and I doubt the Tories will look anything like they do at the moment, once the referendum is over.

I think perhaps the one wise thing Cameron has done in this whole sorry mess is allow his members to vote independently, I think had he asked them all to tow the line he would not have a government left.

[stevewinn]

I think we are going to see exactly where quite a few loyalties lie before the summer arrives, and I doubt the Tories will look anything like they do at the moment, once the referendum is over.

I think perhaps the one wise thing Cameron has done in this whole sorry mess is allow his members to vote independently, I think had he asked them all to tow the line he would not have a government left.

If the vote to leave campaign wins the referendum, a revolution in British politics will happen. because we have to be honest Government ministers are only doing half a job as it currently stands, with the EU regulation/directives/laws performing the other half. alot of Politicians are going to be exposed as the second rates they are.

Edited March 4, 2016 by stevewinn

[spud the mackem]

Are you serious? How little you know about the 39-45 war.

For example, to mention one country only: https://en.m.wikiped...ces_in_the_West

Unless this is some form of subtle sarcasm I did not pick up, I am ashamed to share nationality with someone who could say that "only a few resistance guys"..."helped us out." Unbelievable ignorance.

I was in the 39/45 war matey, and was twice bombed out of my home and machine gunned in a playground so quit the sarcasm

[Boadicea1]

I haven't really made my mind up on what my vote is going to be. There's too much scaremongering going on and a lot of ''The world is going to end if we leave'' journalism more than anything else. Too much what could happen being made out 'What is going to happen'

Where's the positive's to us leaving? I see a lot more on why we should stay and not very much on why we should leave. Can't even trust what the BBC puts as it has become somewhat bias.

It's hard for those who are uncertain when it really isn't balanced at all.

I am leaning more towards staying just because I'll stay with what I know when I am so uncertain on what to believe. Not even this long into it and I already feel like banging my head against the wall

[Space Commander Travis]

I was in the 39/45 war matey, and was twice bombed out of my home and machine gunned in a playground so quit the sarcasm

So you don't know how free French, Polish, Czechs, Dutch, Norwegians and a whole lot more fought alongside the British?

[Space Commander Travis]

I haven't really made my mind up on what my vote is going to be. There's too much scaremongering going on and a lot of ''The world is going to end if we leave'' journalism more than anything else. Too much what could happen being made out 'What is going to happen'

Where's the positive's to us leaving? I see a lot more on why we should stay and not very much on why we should leave. Can't even trust what the BBC puts as it has become somewhat bias.

It's hard for those who are uncertain when it really isn't balanced at all.

I am leaning more towards staying just because I'll stay with what I know when I am so uncertain on what to believe. Not even this long into it and I already feel like banging my head against the wall

Oh of course, the Beeb is a mouthpiece of the Establishment, and so much of the scaremongering is quite ridiculous. "The moment the UK leaves, the Russians will attack" and so on. it'll still remain part of NATO, for heaven's sake. "France says that if the UK leaves, they won't permit immigration Officials to be stationed on French soil, and there'll be nothing to stop swarms of immigrants swarming through the Channel Tunnel." You might wonder why, if, as pro-EU supporters (hi Questionmark ) say, the sooner the UK leaves the better and good riddance, these countries that are the backbone of the EU seem so anxious to persuade it to stay, mightn't you.

[stevewinn]

I haven't really made my mind up on what my vote is going to be. There's too much scaremongering going on and a lot of ''The world is going to end if we leave'' journalism more than anything else. Too much what could happen being made out 'What is going to happen'

Where's the positive's to us leaving? I see a lot more on why we should stay and not very much on why we should leave. Can't even trust what the BBC puts as it has become somewhat bias.

It's hard for those who are uncertain when it really isn't balanced at all.

I am leaning more towards staying just because I'll stay with what I know when I am so uncertain on what to believe. Not even this long into it and I already feel like banging my head against the wall

Where are the positives of us leaving?

On Leaving the UK will have full sovereignty again. That should be reason enough if you believe and want to live in Democracy. But if you want to remain and eventually become a mere province in a EU superstate then by all means Vote to stay in. Our influence is already at a all time low.

Since records began in 1996, the UK has not managed to prevent a single proposal placed in front of the EU council from becoming European law. This amounts to 72 measures that the UK opposed that have since become British law. Since 1973 the UK’s voting power in the Council of Ministers has decreased from 17% to 8%, in the European Parliament it has decreased from 20% to 9.7% and in the European Commission it has decreased from 15% to 4%. The UK has about 12% of the EU's population, it provides only 5% of the EU's staff and the situation is set to get worse. More than four in 10 British officials will be enjoying their retirement by 2020 and, based on the number of applicants in recent years, most of them will not be replaced (junior roles have only a 2.4% UK entrance rate) - this matters because legislation unlike in a democracy is drafted by unelected civil servants in the Berlaymont building, the EU Parliament is merely a rubber stamp with amending rights. Over the last European Parliamentary term (2009-14),a majority of British MEPs(across UK party lines) opposed 576 motions out of a total 1,936 that were put before the European Parliament. Of those 576 motions, 485 were nonetheless approved by the rest of the Parliament despite the opposition of a majority of British MEPs. This is a failure rate of 84%. This rises to 89% in Economic & Monetary affairs & 98% loss in Budget votes. We are the 2nd worst represented in the EU parliament after France with 839,194 inhabitants per MEP (Lux 76,667 per MEP, Ireland 350,750, Italy 816,000). "British Influence", we've seen British Influence in the laughable failure to compromise from the EU - a Red Card we can't use, a hand brake on migration we can't pull, and an opt out of "Ever Closer Union" that will be overturned the 1st time the EU Kangaroo Court (CJEU) decides to challenge it - as Michael Gove pointed out today.

If the foreign office's aim was to prevent a dominant European power from ceasing the reigns it has catastrophically failed with the creation of the Eurozone which will have to become a single legal & political entity which will consistently outnumber & outvote those not in the Eurozone. If it has aimed to strengthen our voice it will fail by the creation of the United States of Europe in which our voice is as effective in driving foreign policy as New Jersey is in driving the US federal government.

Sources

Does the UK win or lose in the Council of Ministers? – UK in a changing Europe UK on loosing side EU council

Business for Britain – Britain’s lack of influence in the EU revealed Council of ministers voting power

www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/rp14-32.pdf 5 European parliament 73/751x100 = 9.7% Percentage of EU MEPs

Careers in International Organisations 5% EU staff

Drop in UK staff in Brussels 'risks influence', MPs say - BBC News Entrance rate to concours

http://forbritain.org/MEPs votes.pdf Vote loss %

Apportionment in the European Parliament - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Population per MEP

So in order to answer your point. Does Britain have power - no. Why - because Malta has adopted the euro it's equal voice is basically agreeing with the Eurozone on everything. Britain does not have this luxury as a permanently outvoted non-Euro minority. Which is why CMD was desperately trying (and according to those in the EU that didn't get the memo on keeping their gobs shut about the deal until after the referendum - sources on one of my previous posts) failing to get protection from the built in Eurozone majority. As for Parliament - well it's not a real Parliament in any sense of the term. It has the power to amend or block not write legislature (Which is written by the Bureaucrats on behalf of the 28 European Commissioners - which is where the UK's 12% population gets reduced to 4% voting rights - exactly the same as Malta), it then goes to the Council which are the 28 Heads of state that act in a similar way to the House of Lords who they Yey or Nay it - that's the one we've lost every one of the 72 times we've tried to prevent a law being enacted. That's another time the EU goes in dry as again that's by Qualified Majority voting in most cases. Malta again has equal 4% weight and again they vote with the Eurozone block. Finally the EU Kangaroo parliament where we are again grossly under-represented by head of population (only the French being worse). It's the equivalent of London getting 1 MP and the Outer Orkneys getting 1 MP.

Edited March 5, 2016 by stevewinn

[bee]

I am leaning more towards staying just because I'll stay with what I know when I am so uncertain on what to believe. Not even this long into it and I already feel like banging my head against the wall

re underlined ---- the problem is --- what do we really know..?

I remember a few years ago the idea of splitting Britain into EU regions was floated to get some feedback on how willing we were to accept that --- the idea didn't go down very well and it isn't talked about now - but I think that that would be the next step that is being kept quiet about -- splitting Europe into multi cultural regions - and countries as we know them now would slowly but surely disappear -

If we get out then others countries would probably follow the example that we set -

Leaving the political EU could actually save Europe - IMO - the Europe that we know anyway - that is made up of countries with their own National Identities -- by voting Out we could be voting to retain a rich tapestry of peoples sharing trade links and friendship - and not becoming a hodge sploge of regions ruled by a faceless centralized decision making body ----

????

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