EU referendum: 23 June date set for UK vote

[Grey Area]

Thanks for the link, Its absolute madness that it seems once again Germany is riding roughshod. It seems Britain like the other 26 members were tucked up in bed when all this was happening only to wake in the morning to see someone had already signed the deal on our behalf. Just what the hell is going on? and to make matters worse no one has challenged it. even though it needs ratifying on the 17th - Turkish officials must be laughing their socks off at the EU, it brings a whole new meaning to the word Turkish Delight.

I cannot see what her agenda is? Is it points scoring for her own domestic position in Germany or is it to do with being a player in Europe? Because this is just going to fragment Europe, we can already see the Eastern nations holding their own private meetings to decide border policy, and France going their own way as well. Merkel needs to start inviting some more to the play pen or she will have no EU left to dictate to, and no EU for us to hold a referendum over, would be most disappointing having all that build up only to discover that there's nothing left to leave.

[stevewinn]

There is a Government white paper that's been released. - before you read it - Remember that this is done to back the Governments position of Remaining in the EU. Basically if we vote to leave were all going to die. The paper is entitled Alternatives to Membership of the EU. But it paints a picture of No Alternative. Its so badly put together that if the 'Leave' campaign cannot pick it apart we deserve to lose the Vote.

not once does it highlight that 94% of the British economy is not involved in EU trade. It even tells the Joke the Prime Minister has got a good deal for the UK, (in a reformed EU) It plays on fear, Its says World trade organisation tariffs would apply on for example: cars and that tariff would be 10% on Cars made in the UK, But it fails to state that the EU exports more cars to the UK than the UK does to the EU, if the EU under WTO rules placed a 10% tariff on cars then the EU would be damaging their industry more than ours. plus because of the deficit if the 10% tariff was applied we could easily place 10% on EU imported cars and then subsidised our car industry wiping out the cost of this tariff. this would cost £1Billion to do. but we'd raise £11Billion on imported EU cars. unlike the UK the EU wouldn't be able to subsidise their industries to the tune of 11Billion on two counts, 1) cost and 2) their own internal competition laws, the same laws that prevent the UK from helping our steel industry. but back to the cars, the cost to the EU to wipe out the tariff would be to great, BMW, Volkswagen etc.. would be banging down the EU commission's door. Where we'd profit from a 10% tax the EU wouldn't. so it would be in both parties interest to reach a Trade agreement. But no mention of this alternative in the governments white paper.

The report also reports with great pride that the EU has negotiated Free Trade agreements with 53 countries /territories. (including the eu custom union) while the USA only has 20. You think wow, 33 agreements more than the USA. But then look who they are.

Mexico, Chile, Peru, Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Egypt, Jordan, Israel,

Occupied Palestinian Territory, Lebanon, Syria, FYR Macedonia, Albania, Serbia, Montenegro,

Bosnia and Herzegovina, Switzerland, Korea, Antigua, Barbuda, Belize, Bahamas, Barbados,

Dominica, Dominican Republic, Grenada, Guyana, Haiti, Jamaica, St. Kitts and Nevis,

St. Lucia, St. Vincent and the Grenadines, Suriname, Trinidad and Tobago, Colombia,

Honduras, Nicaragua, Panama, Guatemala, Papua New Guinea, South Africa, Madagascar,

Mauritius, Seychelles, Zimbabwe, Costa Rica, El Salvador, Fiji, Cameroon, Georgia, Moldova,

Ukraine, EU Customs Union (Andorra, Monaco, San Marino, Turkey), EEA (Norway, Iceland.

https://www.gov.uk/g..._Accessible.pdf

Edit to add, The UK is the EU's single biggest market. this report paints a picture of the UK being in a weak position and having to negotiate on the EU's terms. But i ask the question. With the UK being the EU's single biggest market, on what UK terms will the EU be negotiating. The report wants people to believe the EU holds all the cards, and its simply not true. can the EU really afford their single biggest market to just bugger off. no is the answer. - example all these goods wethe UK buy off Europe, where else are they going to be sold? there is no alternative market for them otherwise these industries would be growing and the Eurozone economies wouldn't be in the gutter.

Edited March 10, 2016 by stevewinn

[stevewinn]

[Space Commander Travis]

Look out everyone, Mr. C's copying the Trumpster's trademark angry face.

[hetrodoxly]

I've read all the thread and not posted as i can't add to what's already been said, i decided to vote 'leave' a time ago but is there any one reason why i should vote to stay?

[bee]

So... yesterday the BCC boss John Longworth "resigned" without being pushed... yeah, right... - for his support of Brexit.

Today Bank of England governor Mark Carney gave a big thumbs up to the pro-EU brigade and Cameron's laughable "reforms", and he gets a pat on the back from his cronies.

I've got a horrible feeling that the result of this referendum is already decided, and we're just going through the motions so that Cameron can give a rousing speech about the "British public having spoken."

Let's hope it's just a bad case of pessimism. If not, I truly believe that one way or another it'll be the last nail in the coffin of our nation with everything else that's happening in the world right now

re underlined above ---

well in spite of the general feeling that it will either be close or that the Out camp have a decent chance of winning,

the bookies are sticking strongly with a Remain outcome...

I know I go on about bookies but they generally give a good guide to what's going on --- do they know something we don't..?

They are broadly going 1/3 for remaining (you would have to put three pounds on to win one)

And 9/4 for staying (you would have to put one pound on to win two and a quarter)

They can get it 'wrong' sometimes but 1/3 is very prohibitive - only rich people could bet at those odds to make any kind of money ---

http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/eu-referendum/referendum-on-eu-membership-result

This video is about American election rigging using computer programmes but I wonder if the same / similar could be used for the EU referendum --- ??...when all the voting figures are brought together via computers - ?

Any kind of vote rigging = dictatorship

The bookies just seem too confident for my liking ---

.

Edited March 12, 2016 by bee

[bee]

im seeing NEWS reports on the Migrant crisis, something which has flabbergast me. in regard to the EU's - Turkish migrant deal/agreement. All 28 members were in the negotiations. at 8pm GMT last night the meeting was ended and to resume the following morning. Yet it seems the agreement we see today was reached last night and was negotiated By the 'EU' in the middle of the night personally by none other than Frau Merkel with only the Dutch PM in attendance. surely this cannot be true?

Anyway Farage in full flow.

The stupidity and lack of foresight in the EU leadership beggars belief --- it really does ---

Nige is spot on --- and re what I said about vote rigging in my previous post --

Remember in the last General Election when we all waited with interest to see how Nigel Farage would get on and expected him to win --

and then a lorry full of votes went missing for hours and when the result finally came in hours later than expected -----

guess what...?

Nige didn't win ---

.

[bee]

I've read all the thread and not posted as i can't add to what's already been said, i decided to vote 'leave' a time ago but is there any one reason why i should vote to stay?

so that big business can continue to use, extensively, cheap labour from other, poorer EU countries.? ....( /sarcasm )

This seems to be the Remain camps big thing ---- fear of job loss --- but who exactly would lose jobs - ?

Perhaps leaving the EU would mean more jobs for British workers...???

.

[bee]

I cannot see what her agenda is? Is it points scoring for her own domestic position in Germany or is it to do with being a player in Europe? Because this is just going to fragment Europe, we can already see the Eastern nations holding their own private meetings to decide border policy, and France going their own way as well. Merkel needs to start inviting some more to the play pen or she will have no EU left to dictate to, and no EU for us to hold a referendum over, would be most disappointing having all that build up only to discover that there's nothing left to leave.

Gawd knows what Merkel's agenda was (is) ----

perhaps she thought all the nice middle class Syrian refugees would hire buses to Germany --- and boost the German population and economy??

but the reality was different and her open invitation was a monumental political blunder (emphasis on the 'mental' )

.

[Black Monk]

re underlined above ---

well in spite of the general feeling that it will either be close or that the Out camp have a decent chance of winning,

the bookies are sticking strongly with a Remain outcome...

I know I go on about bookies but they generally give a good guide to what's going on --- do they know something we don't..?

They are broadly going 1/3 for remaining (you would have to put three pounds on to win one)

And 9/4 for staying (you would have to put one pound on to win two and a quarter)

They can get it 'wrong' sometimes but 1/3 is very prohibitive - only rich people could bet at those odds to make any kind of money ---

http://www.oddscheck...mbership-result

This video is about American election rigging using computer programmes but I wonder if the same / similar could be used for the EU referendum --- ??...when all the voting figures are brought together via computers - ?

Any kind of vote rigging = dictatorship

The bookies just seem too confident for my liking ---

.

And last year, in the run up to the General Election, a hung parliament was the favourite with the bookies. Yet the Conservatives went on to win it.

The Leave campaign are going to win this.

[Space Commander Travis]

I was given a leaflet by the Just Say No* people in town today.

5 Positive Reasons to Vote Leave and take back control.

(1) Our Money, Our priorities.

We send over $350 million to the EU every single week - enough to build a Hospital every week of the year!! If we vote to remain in the EU, will we keep sending this money to Brussles each week.

If we Vote Leave, we can spend our money how we darn well like - like the NJS, Schools, and Housing.

(2) Take Back Control over Our Laws.

If we Vote Leave, UK Laws will have ultimate authority and foreigners will not be able to interfere! We should be able to vote out the people who make our Laws. (in bold).

If we vote to remain, EU Laws will overrule UK Laws and the European Courts will be incontrol of our trade, our borders, and big decisions like whether prisoners will be allowed to vote!

(3) Build a fairer, safer immigration System.

... If we remain in the EU, we will be stuck with an out-of-control Immigration system which is bad for our Security. The European Courts will be in charge of who we let in, and who we can remove. Imagine if Turkey joins this broken system!!! If we vote Leave, we will be able to have a fainer, more humane system based on the skillz we need. We'll be able to control numbers without having to turn away talented peopel from outside the EU who want to contribute.

What will be numbers 4 and 5? Find out later! It's a lot to type in one go!

* good name for the campaign I thought; they could pay royalties to Nancy Reagan (RIP)

Edited March 12, 2016 by Otto von Pickelhaube

[skookum]

Now our head of state has been dragged into the the EU debate.

I support our head of state beyond anything Germany any Brussels can through at me. A low desperate blow that has certainly backfired on persons like myself were willing to listen to both arguments If the sheeple of the UK want German rule then lets have it.

[hetrodoxly]

so that big business can continue to use, extensively, cheap labour from other, poorer EU countries.? ....( /sarcasm )

This seems to be the Remain camps big thing ---- fear of job loss --- but who exactly would lose jobs - ?

Perhaps leaving the EU would mean more jobs for British workers...???

.

Just as i thought, no one has a good reason to stay in the EU though there are many good reasons to leave, the 'unknown' isn't a reason to stay you can only make you're decision on what's known.

Edited March 13, 2016 by hetrodoxly

[Jarocal]

Just as i thought, no one has a good reason to stay in the EU though there are many good reasons to leave, the 'unknown' isn't a reason to stay you can only make you're decision on what's known.

Doing the humanitarian duty of spending your hard earned £'s paying for the social programs of fiscally irresponsible less prosperous European countries. Don't forget your needed to help provide housing/social services to all the refugees Merkel was kind enough to invite on your behalf.

[Space Commander Travis]

I must give credit to Boris here for being bold enough to stand up to the Master of the World and making some quite pungent points.

Boris angrily hits out at Obama

London Mayor condemns 'hypocrisy' over EU referendum intervention

Read the full story

I'm still waiting to hear the Trump's view on Brexit, though.

[Crabby Kitten]

I must give credit to Boris here for being bold enough to stand up to the Master of the World and making some quite pungent points.

Boris angrily hits out at Obama

London Mayor condemns 'hypocrisy' over EU referendum intervention

Read the full story

I'm still waiting to hear the Trump's view on Brexit, though.

I actually like Boris

[stevewinn]

Its all over the BBC News this morning.

EU referendum: CBI warns of UK exit 'serious shock'

A UK exit from the EU would cause a "serious economic shock", potentially costing the country £100bn and nearly one million jobs, according to a report commissioned by the CBI.

The business lobby group said a study found that a vote to leave would have "negative echoes" lasting many years.

It said the cost could be as much as 5% of GDP and 950,000 jobs by 2020.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35855869

But what the BBC yet again fails to point out is the biased study done. The CBI represents just 0.1% of British Business. mainly the big Corporations. Is it any surprise that a Study funded by the CBI has findings in line with their stance on Remaining part of the EU. I mean would the CBI pay good money for a study to have it undermine their own campaign.

Having read the report its finding are based on assumptions, such as EU growth will be considerably higher than the UK's. yet since the 2007/8 credit crisis, UK growth has been greater than the EU's and continues to do so. The facts not mentioned is the UK has out performed the EU for growth, and job creation, in fact the UK has created more jobs than the whole of the EU combined. and we continue to have the fastest growing economy in the G7. So even with the CBI's flawed assessment it accepts that by 2020, a free UK's growth will start to outstrip the EU's again so even the worse case is we would see contraction of the economy in 2019 and then a return to growth in 2020.

conflict of interest - the CBI - European Union relationship.

The CBI has continues to engage with all three European institutions – commission, parliament and council – to press for action to help deliver an effective growth and jobs agenda for Europe.

We have stressed that any legislative activity, and particularly any in the field of financial services and social policy, should not be detrimental to the competitiveness of the European economy as a whole. The CBI has remained at the forefront of business lobbying on climate change, pursuing a balanced approach which can deliver on important goals without undermining industrial competitiveness. We also promote the further completion of the single market, most notably in the network industries.

It has a staff of 30 people working at the EU. six which have access to the EU Parliament premises. It also receives funding from the EU. €183,770 per year. The CBI has secured an annual grant from the European Commission as part of the harmonised programme of business and consumer tendency survey programme. This arrangement is currently covered by Framework partnership agreement no: ECFIN/230/2014 and specific grant agreement no: ECFIN/045/2015/704144. For the financial years 2013/14, 2014/15, 2015/16 the CBI secured €551,310 via this competitive tender process.

Why is the BBC not pointing this out to the British Public? maybe because they are Pro-EU. as found by an investigation.

investigation by News-watch, an organisation that has been monitoring the BBC for impartiality for the past sixteen years, analysed items focusing on the EU referendum in 40 editions of Newsnight, between 16 January and 12 March.

The BBC, which is funded by the license fee payer, is required by its Charter to offer impartial coverage.

However, the analysis of 25 feature items about the EU referendum on its flagship news program has revealed that it has given twice as much space to pro-EU supporters.

In an astonishing finding News-watch has observed that in one-one interviews on the referendum there have been 12 supporters of Remain compared to only six who were in favour of leaving the EU.

Out of all 40 editions of Newsnight, of all the guests who have appeared to discuss the EU, there were 25 who clearly supported the Remain perspective and just 14 who want Britain to leave the EU. News-watch also claims that those who support Remain were clearly given much greater prominence than those who want to leave.

[LV-426]

Why is the BBC not pointing this out to the British Public? maybe because they are Pro-EU. as found by an investigation.

Absolutely. And who's going to question their bias when it tallies with Cameron's plans, along with the BBC's financial interests? It's a disgrace.

The millions in EU funding the BBC tried to hide

BBC admits receiving millions in grants from EU and councils

[Space Commander Travis]

In the News today: A majority of French voters now want Frexit , apparently.

[Black Monk]

Remember, people, we are, as Mr Cameron has told us several times over the last few weeks in the run up to the in/out referendum, safer in the EU. Wise Uncle Cameron has told us a few time that Britain's security depends on us being in the EU.

Okay, so a few bombs might have just gone off in the EU's capital, including just yards from the EU Commission, but we need to ignore this little inconvenience. It is that Commission which is one of the few things which keep us safe. Britain is SAFER within the EU! Just listen to uncle Cameron!

Edited March 23, 2016 by Black Monk

[keithisco]

Its all over the BBC News this morning.

But what the BBC yet again fails to point out is the biased study done. The CBI represents just 0.1% of British Business. mainly the big Corporations. Is it any surprise that a Study funded by the CBI has findings in line with their stance on Remaining part of the EU. I mean would the CBI pay good money for a study to have it undermine their own campaign.

Having read the report its finding are based on assumptions, such as EU growth will be considerably higher than the UK's. yet since the 2007/8 credit crisis, UK growth has been greater than the EU's and continues to do so. The facts not mentioned is the UK has out performed the EU for growth, and job creation, in fact the UK has created more jobs than the whole of the EU combined. and we continue to have the fastest growing economy in the G7. So even with the CBI's flawed assessment it accepts that by 2020, a free UK's growth will start to outstrip the EU's again so even the worse case is we would see contraction of the economy in 2019 and then a return to growth in 2020.

conflict of interest - the CBI - European Union relationship.

The CBI has continues to engage with all three European institutions – commission, parliament and council – to press for action to help deliver an effective growth and jobs agenda for Europe.

We have stressed that any legislative activity, and particularly any in the field of financial services and social policy, should not be detrimental to the competitiveness of the European economy as a whole. The CBI has remained at the forefront of business lobbying on climate change, pursuing a balanced approach which can deliver on important goals without undermining industrial competitiveness. We also promote the further completion of the single market, most notably in the network industries.

It has a staff of 30 people working at the EU. six which have access to the EU Parliament premises. It also receives funding from the EU. €183,770 per year. The CBI has secured an annual grant from the European Commission as part of the harmonised programme of business and consumer tendency survey programme. This arrangement is currently covered by Framework partnership agreement no: ECFIN/230/2014 and specific grant agreement no: ECFIN/045/2015/704144. For the financial years 2013/14, 2014/15, 2015/16 the CBI secured €551,310 via this competitive tender process.

Why is the BBC not pointing this out to the British Public? maybe because they are Pro-EU. as found by an investigation.

Steve

A few thoughts to go with your post:

The CBI represents 190,000 businesses in the UK.

They polled 800 of these businesses or put another way – just 0.421% of their membership for their views of whether they support the “Remain” or the “Leave” campaigns. They ignored the other 99.579% of businesses.

Based solely on this incredibly small sample of their membership they have extrapolated these figures and claim that 80% of its TOTAL membership supports staying in the EU. This is simply disingenuous and dishonest. As an organisation that receives funding from the EU then should this surprise anyone. Interestingly they do not tell us which businesses of the 20% (who responded) that saw Brexit as being a positive outcome, are.

Lets look at the claim of 1 million jobs at threat if we leave the EU – with 2.5 million EU migrants in the country then the maths is simple - no Briton will lose their job but quite honestly I do not believe one word from the EU Mouthpiece that is the CBI (this time).

Cameron tells us that there is no way that Turkey will be allowed accession to the EU for at least 10 years… well then Mr Cameron will you guarantee that there will be a legally binding UK Referendum on its entry – or will you or the illiterati of the labour Party treat the great people of this nation as incompetents once again and deny them the right to determine who gets unfettered access to the UK?

Today Moody's (Ratings Agency) tells us that any financial impact of a Brexit on the UK Economy will be very "Small"...

"Project Fear" never had a leg to stand on before - and their arguments just make them look increasingly stupid

Edited March 23, 2016 by keithisco

[Space Commander Travis]

hey Keith, long time no see

[keithisco]

hey Keith, long time no see

"Rumours of my death are greatly exaggerated" Not sure about your avatar however Otto... is it ironic, sarcastic, or something else. ? Take care Mate, I might not be around for long but had to come to UK to vote in the referendum.

Edited March 23, 2016 by keithisco

[Space Commander Travis]

"Rumours of my death are greatly exaggerated" Not sure about your avatar however Otto... is it ironic, sarcastic, or something else. ? Take care Mate, I might not be around for long but had to come to UK to vote in the referendum.

Well, it follows in a line that's included Dr Evil, Ernst Stavro Blofeld, and David Cameron, so you make up your own mind.

[LV-426]

Well, it follows in a line that's included Dr Evil, Ernst Stavro Blofeld, and David Cameron, so you make up your own mind.

I'm actually trying to make my mind up which would make the best Bond villain...