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EU referendum: 23 June date set for UK vote


Still Waters

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26 minutes ago, Torchwood said:

 

I cant stand ukip, bunch of racist morons, each and every one of them,

 

:rolleyes:

 

 

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3 hours ago, Otto von Pickelhaube said:

Can i just ask, people such as Torchwood and QM, would you be pleased if the popular vote was to be ignored, on some technicality? You seem to be having a bit of a chortle at the prospect. Would you be happy with that precedent, if it was repeated in a General election, say? Or is it just because the vote didn't go the way you wanted? 

pleased, no. I am never pleased when the popular will of the people is not respected. (BTW, that includes the will of Scotland and Ireland).

Amused? very.

 

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and in more related news:

Quote

British fishermen warned Brexit will not mean greater catches

British fishermen have been warned that, despite the promises made by the leave campaign, they cannot expect to be granted greater catches after the UK leaves the European Union, and they may face increased economic turmoil.

Fishermen will have to remain within their current catch quotas while the UK is still a member, and even if new arrangements are negotiated after a Brexit, they will not necessarily be more generous, fisheries chiefs and campaigners have warned.

British fishing fleets will still be bound by international agreements on fish stocks that must now be worked out, and which may not be to their benefit.

 

Read more on The Guardian

more broken promises....

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and for those who need a laugh

 

 

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2 hours ago, questionmark said:

and in more related news:

more broken promises....

more promises broke? the Guardian like yourself are absolutely distraught over the UK voting to Leave both your worlds are falling apart. - Whenever you read a piece by a journalist, step one look for names quoted, or organisations mentioned. because after all all a journalist does is take a source and spin their opinion. hence we have a load of piffle with the odd quote interlaced. 

I went to the Organisations web page, the NFFO, and looked at the press release used in part in the guardian. Here is whats actually been said.

Now where are the broken promises?

Quote

From any perspective, it is clear that the outcome of the EU referendum marks a seismic change for the fishing industry. What that change actually will mean in practice is less easy to predict. On all fronts, including fishing politics, we are entering uncharted territory and turbulent waters, with challenges and perhaps also opportunities.

Two things can be said with certainty:

1. At this stage there are more questions than answers

2. In this new world, fishermen will need a strong, cohesive, national organisation to defend their interests during the upcoming transition

It is not difficult to understand the strong anti-EU sentiments within the UK fishing industry. The European Commission has too often behaved with arrogance, and the EU Parliament with ignorance, to escape their share of the blame. To understand this, you need to go no further that the Commission’s proposed EU ban on small-scale drift nets – to solve an enforcement problem in Italy but which if adopted would have extinguished many sustainable, viable small-scale fisheries in the UK. This is but one example which just illustrates the roots of the frustration that has built over many years.

Promises have been made and expectations raised during the referendum campaign and it is now time to examine if and how they can be delivered. Unfortunately perhaps, the UK’s geo-political position means that it is not politically or legally possible just to ring-fence most of our fish resources in the way for example that Iceland can. The reality is that most of our stocks are shared with other countries to some degree or other.

We can certainly seek to renegotiate quota shares as well as access arrangement but it is realistic to expect that there will be a price of some sort. Who will pay that price is a critical question.

news743.jpg

Some of the key questions in an immediate post-referendum context are:

1. What will the new bilateral (or trilateral) arrangements be for managing shared stocks? Will the fishing industry be part of the UK negotiating team?

2. What assurance will there be that fishing priorities will not be traded away against non-fishing priorities?

3. Will there be new access arrangements in UK waters? Will all foreign vessels be excluded from UK waters? If not, what conditions will apply if they are allowed in?

4. What reciprocal access arrangements will there be for our vessels to fish in the waters of other member states? What conditions will apply?

5. What quota share arrangements will apply? Will it be possible to negotiate better UK quota shares?

6. What market access arrangements will exist: to the EU single market and for external fish products in the UK? What tariffs will apply?

7. What status will domestic quota management arrangements have post Brexit? Will there be a grab for quota held by non-UK nationals? EU law will no longer apply but what will English law say?

8. What will the general economic climate be post Brexit and how will that impact on fishing? Where will the new equilibrium be?

9. What will the political context be, not least where power is currently devolved? Will there be a second referendum in Scotland?

10. Who will be doing the negotiating on behalf of the UK? DEFRA has reduced its team dramatically in recent months.

11. What say will the fishing industry have in shaping the new arrangements?

12. How will the transition to the new arrangements be managed?

Our Fisheries Minister, in campaigning for Leave, made a number of commitments including on the UK’s quota shares and access arrangements. With the referendum outcome, there will now be heavy pressure on him to demonstrate that there was more to those promises than pre-referendum sweet talk.

The one key lesson that we have all learnt from the CFP is that fisheries management is too important to be left to the technocrats. There are no technocratic solutions. Fisheries stakeholders, and principally fishermen and their organisations must be at the heart of the design and implementation of management arrangements. It is important that the politicians bear this in mind.

Whatever lies ahead, it will be vital for the industry to speak with one clear loud voice. History, not least the history of the CFP, demonstrates that divisions equals weakness. It is for that reason that the NFFO Executive, when it meets on 12th July, will be taking stock of the Referendum outcome and framing our policy accordingly.

 

Edited by stevewinn
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6 hours ago, bee said:

 

:rolleyes:

 

 

I didn't bother with the video, but in fairness the UKIP is often called racist because it's members have been caught, multiple times, publicly being openly racist.

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3 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

 it's members have been caught, multiple times, publicly being openly racist.

 

Or perhaps just having the balls to speak freely about things that the politically correct bunch dare not mention for fear of being shamed...

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49 minutes ago, seeder said:

 

Or perhaps just having the balls to speak freely about things that the politically correct bunch dare not mention for fear of being shamed...

Nah mate, definitely some racist **** going on there. To deny this would be pointless.

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:D

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7 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

:D

double post

 

Edited by questionmark
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6 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

:D

Problem is they failed to put the one nation against the other but managed quite well to pit the people against their government. And then, by accident, and because there were a lot of protest voter, they ended up outside.

Now they look like the dog who chased the bus after sinking his teeth into the bumper and you can see how slowly a thought forms that seez: What now?

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The last post in this was 12 hours ago. Don't tell me it's finally reaching the end of the line? Before you know it it's... going to be bumped onto the second page! :cry: So is there going to be a new thread about the Tory Leadership Battle, and/or Jeremy Corbyn, if anyone's interested enough? 

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Its all over mate, I don't think anything will happen now, no article 50, nothing. game over, thank you for playing.

If it does it'll be a pretty dull two years of people in suits sitting round tables. 

Time for a beer I think? Whilst the dust settles. 

 

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Let's do Corbyn. He's good for a few memes!

shadowcabinet-1024x614.jpg

35B6BAC700000578-3661892-image-a-3_14670

35B6C2CE00000578-3661724-Running_out_of_

 

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On 6/27/2016 at 6:25 PM, bee said:

 

:) - clearly it's not very clear how all this is going to pan out ---

it will all depend on how the government in power deals with the situation and the state of the job market, I suppose -
 

.

Exactly.

 

BTW, I've heard about increasing numbers of Britons applying for citizenship in other EU countries...

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4 hours ago, Otto von Pickelhaube said:

The last post in this was 12 hours ago. Don't tell me it's finally reaching the end of the line? Before you know it it's... going to be bumped onto the second page! :cry: So is there going to be a new thread about the Tory Leadership Battle, and/or Jeremy Corbyn, if anyone's interested enough? 

Sadly Yes. The majority of the Brexit mob in this thread, Otto, have finally sobered up to the fact that now that Britain made the mistake of the century by voting outta the EU cause of primarily, free movement of people... in order to sign another trade deal with the EU it will have to agree to free movement of EU citizens all over again and still tip roughly the same money into the EU coffers for the privilege. All this without a say in the EU anymore.

Boris and Nigel should be hung, drawn and quartered for treason...and Cameron for stupidity.

 

 

 

Edited by Leto_loves_melange
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1 minute ago, Leto_loves_melange said:

Sadly Yes. The majority of the Brexit mob in this thread Otto have finally sobered up to the fact that now that Britain made the mistake of the century by voting outta the EU cause of primarily, free movement of people... in order to sign another trade deal with the EU it will have to agree to free movement of EU citizens all over again and still tip roughly the same money into the EU coffers as it does now. All this without a say in the EU anymore.

Boris and Nigel should be hung, drawn and quartered for treason.

My god, you never stop do you!

Maybe they are just fed up of listening to some left-wing internet troll, who lives on the other side of the world and has never set foot in Britain waffling on and on about things that he doesn't fully comprehend.

I know I am anyway. Praise be to the ignore function!

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Never fear the Americans are here. 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jun/29/john-kerry-brexit-could-be-walked-back-david-cameron

it seems that Cameron is enlisting the good ol US of A to undo the mess that is Brexit. The U.K. just might get outta this...

Fingers crossed.

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1 hour ago, LV-426 said:

Let's do Corbyn. He's good for a few memes!

shadowcabinet-1024x614.jpg

35B6BAC700000578-3661892-image-a-3_14670

35B6C2CE00000578-3661724-Running_out_of_

 

He is down to a mere 41 MPs who support his leadership.

If he wins his parties leadership election (which he may well do because its an open vote to the ordinary Labour members a lot of whom support him) it will be funny to watch what happens in Parliament. I predict Labour MPs will start crossing the floor. I'd say 10 would switch to being Liberal Democrats, 50 to UKIP and the others (120+) would probably start their own party. Funny.

The Corbyn clown has his party hi-jacked. I'm looking forward to a general election because if he clings on to get re-elected as Labour Party leader it will split the vote helping UKIP. Go Farage!!!

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1 hour ago, Leto_loves_melange said:

Sadly Yes. The majority of the Brexit mob in this thread, Otto, have finally sobered up to the fact that now that Britain made the mistake of the century by voting outta the EU cause of primarily, free movement of people... in order to sign another trade deal with the EU it will have to agree to free movement of EU citizens all over again and still tip roughly the same money into the EU coffers for the privilege. All this without a say in the EU anymore.

Boris and Nigel should be hung, drawn and quartered for treason...and Cameron for stupidity.

Following the leave vote the delusional reasoning by some politicians has started to explain away what caused it.

Cameron was almost spot on yesterday in the EU Parliament when he told them it was the British rejecting immigration and the free movement of people. Those were major causes but the leave vote was also down to the suppressed nationalism of the English and Welsh peoples bubbling to the surface. Why should we give our countries up? I reject in its entirety the assertions left politicians make where if you don't give up your nation, or accept mass immigration, or accept the free movement of people, then you're somehow an extremist. We want our independence and border controls back.

Now those same politicians are trying to re-interrupt why the majority of people voted leave allowing them to reach the delusional conclusion we somehow didn't mean it. Good luck with that!

Edited by RabidMongoose
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On 28/06/2016 at 10:46 AM, questionmark said:

pleased, no. I am never pleased when the popular will of the people is not respected. (BTW, that includes the will of Scotland and Ireland).

Amused? very.

 

 

Considering that there is a democratic deficit in the UK - a democrat deficit for England - in which Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish MPs can have a say and a vote on English-only matters yet English MPs can't have a say and a vote on Scottish-only, Welsh-only and Northern Irish-only matters, and in which England often votes for the Tories in general elections but gets a Labour Government foisted upon it by the Scots, I find this bleating by Scottish nationalist that "England are taking us out of the EU against our will!" to be very interesting.


For years the English have quietly, admirablym and tolerably put up with this democratic deficit that they suffer, yet as soon as the tables are turned and the English foist something unwanted and invoted for onto the Scots, the whingeing and the bleating starts.

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22 hours ago, seeder said:

 

Or perhaps just having the balls to speak freely about things that the politically correct bunch dare not mention for fear of being shamed...

Yeah I am curious as how a society unfolds in which everyone gets insulted and bullied who differs from a certain norm or standard. .. Well, guess what, I don't need to know since I can open and read a history book. That's probably more than a Trump voter and Brexit voter can.

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Have you taken lessons in how to be this smug and condescending? have you taken an online course in it, or do you just have a natural aptitude for it?

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6 minutes ago, Otto von Pickelhaube said:

Have you taken lessons in how to be this smug and condescending? have you taken an online course in it, or do you just have a natural aptitude for it?

The funny thing is I don't think he can see his own hypocrisy in his post 

Edited by spartan max2
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