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Still Waters

Was Jesus really nailed to the cross?

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Philangeli

Because in the Bible Jesus didn't say "Thomas, put your finger on my rope burns." :tu:

I think that is worth reiterating:

John 20:25

But he (Thomas) said to them, "Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe."

Also, it occurred to me that if Christ had been tied, rather than nailed, to the cross, he would have survived a lot longer than a few hours, up to several days, perhaps.

Also, there are quite a few verses (John, Matthew, Paul, Revelation) which talk about Christ "shedding his blood" for our sins. If he had been tied to the cross, no blood would have been shed, so there would have been no need to use that particular phrase. It would have been sufficient (and more accurate) just to have said "he died for our sins".

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Doug1029

So was Jesus nailed to the cross?

As I recall, we only have one piece of hard evidence pertaining to crucifixion: a heal bone with a nail through it. All the rest comes from historical documents and tradition (which may or may not be true).

Doug

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WoIverine

Also, there are quite a few verses (John, Matthew, Paul, Revelation) which talk about Christ "shedding his blood" for our sins. If he had been tied to the cross, no blood would have been shed, so there would have been no need to use that particular phrase. It would have been sufficient (and more accurate) just to have said "he died for our sins".

He was scourged with whips prior to crucifixion, beaten as well, and the crown of thorns.

Edited by WoIverine

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Stubbly_Dooright

I think he is an ideal. He's the best we hoped to live up to, but failed to do so. Many of the things that are attributed to him run through various belief systems. Things like the Golden Rule. I think if anything has a chance of being divinely inspired, it's that. All of that other stuff, like an eye for an eye...not so much. That sounds an awful lot like human desire for vengeance.

Something that probably like the sign of the times. Revenge maybe a positive trend at the time. So in the end, so much has built up over the long course of time, has become a life of it's very own. Kind of like a tree, or shall we say ;) a grapevine, that has branched out from it's roots.

Crucifixion was a standard method of execution under Roman tyranny. If they didn't put you to the sword. Millions would have died by it.

That is why I always felt George, Duke of Clarence, dying by being drowned in a vat of wine, as very 'unique'. Edited by TheMustardLady

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simplybill

That is why I always felt George, Duke of Clarence, dying by being drowned in a vat of wine, as very 'unique'.

This reminds me of my poor cousin Shamus, who drowned in a vat of Guiness while working at the brewery. Sadly, he died a long, slow death. He got out of the vat two times to go pee.

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danielost

I think that is worth reiterating:

John 20:25

But he (Thomas) said to them, "Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe."

Also, it occurred to me that if Christ had been tied, rather than nailed, to the cross, he would have survived a lot longer than a few hours, up to several days, perhaps.

Also, there are quite a few verses (John, Matthew, Paul, Revelation) which talk about Christ "shedding his blood" for our sins. If he had been tied to the cross, no blood would have been shed, so there would have been no need to use that particular phrase. It would have been sufficient (and more accurate) just to have said "he died for our sins".

if he had lived longer, they would have broken his legs invalidating the sacrifice. that is why the roman commander stuck his sword in his side to prove he was dead.

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seeder
Jesus did not die on cross, says scholar

Jesus may not have died nailed to the cross because there is no evidence that the Romans crucified prisoners two thousand years ago, a scholar has claimed.

The legend of his execution is based on the traditions of the Christian church and artistic illustrations rather than antique texts, according to theologian Gunnar Samuelsson.

He claims the Bible has been misinterpreted as there are no explicit references the use of nails or to crucifixion - only that Jesus bore a "staurus" towards Calvary which is not necessarily a cross but can also mean a "pole".

Mr Samuelsson, who has written a 400-page thesis after studying the original texts, said: "The problem is descriptions of crucifixions are remarkably absent in the antique literature.

"The sources where you would expect to find support for the established understanding of the event really don't say anything."

The ancient Greek, Latin and Hebrew literature from Homer to the first century AD describe an arsenal of suspension punishments but none mention "crosses" or "crucifixion."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/7849852/Jesus-did-not-die-on-cross-says-scholar.html

do read the whole page/link, its not very long either.

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XenoFish

1426127357799.jpg

Maybe when they pierced his side, they really pierced it Vlad style.

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danielost

crucifixion can be a cross(Rome) a pole(vad the impeller) an x(japan) and a few other ways(hitler). all result in death. the reason christ had to die that day was that passover started the next day. if any of the three had been left up the next day, the Romans were afraid of a Jewish riot.

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XenoFish

Maybe Jesus and his buddy Judas switched places, and Judas bit the bullet for his friend to prove is faith.

conspiracy-theory-alert_200px.jpg?w=620

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GoldenWolf

Maybe Jesus and his buddy Judas switched places, and Judas bit the bullet for his friend to prove is faith.

conspiracy-theory-alert_200px.jpg?w=620

Another hypothetical conspiracy:

Judas was set up, Jesus cult conspired, had Judas crucified, while Jesus walked away scott-free, claiming it was him who went to the cross.

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WoIverine

"Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage--with great patience and careful instruction. For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths." 2 Timothy 4:2-4.

Edited by WoIverine
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seeder

from the link I gave above... in case anyone didnt read it

Mr Samuelsson, of Gothenburg University, said: "Consequently, the contemporary understanding of crucifixion as a punishment is severely challenged.

"And what's even more challenging is the same can be concluded about the accounts of the crucifixion of Jesus. The New Testament doesn't say as much as we'd like to believe."

Any evidence that Jesus was left to die after being nailed to a cross is strikingly sparse - both in the ancient pre-Christian and extra-Biblical literature as well as The Bible.

Mr Samuelsson, a committed Christian himself, admitted his claims are so close to the heart of his faith that it is easy to react emotionally instead of logically.

Mr Samuelsson said the actual execution texts do not describe how Christ was attached to the execution device.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/7849852/Jesus-did-not-die-on-cross-says-scholar.html

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danielost

the thing that gets me in the movies, christ is always nailed, but usually the two thieves are tied. i would think, a military would be consistent.

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GoldenWolf

the thing that gets me in the movies, christ is always nailed, but usually the two thieves are tied. i would think, a military would be consistent.

Ironic how you say that, doesn't Jesus say he would come like a thief in the night?

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Darkenpath25

When is all this going to stop ? If he did if he didn't what does it matter now ?

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danielost

Ironic how you say that, doesn't Jesus say he would come like a thief in the night?

yes. but he did die with two thieves. on, which he told he would be with jesus in paradise that night.

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XenoFish

When is all this going to stop ? If he did if he didn't what does it matter now ?

I think we're trying to figure out part of the origins of the Jesus egregore.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egregore

Every religious structure has one. It's what give a hive like mind to groups of devoted people. And caused stuff like this to happen.

Then again Truth is not as fanciful as faith.

A mythological man nail to a pole, tied to it, or impaled on it. Doesn't matter, it's a link into the subconscious. It also means that the power of faith is basically just a ramped up placebo effect.

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danielost

"Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage--with great patience and careful instruction. For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths." 2 Timothy 4:2-4.

this has already taken place. how many people just on this sight have done this. (there can't be a god) teacher don't talk about god.

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danielost

I think we're trying to figure out part of the origins of the Jesus egregore.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egregore

Every religious structure has one. It's what give a hive like mind to groups of devoted people. And caused stuff like this to happen.

Then again Truth is not as fanciful as faith.

A mythological man nail to a pole, tied to it, or impaled on it. Doesn't matter, it's a link into the subconscious. It also means that the power of faith is basically just a ramped up placebo effect.

this is part of the problem. many will be called few will answer. i also don't think god sent people back to life, so they can get rich. jesus said, to charge nothing because he had given it to us for free.

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XenoFish

this is part of the problem. many will be called few will answer. i also don't think god sent people back to life, so they can get rich. jesus said, to charge nothing because he had given it to us for free.

I've technically died twice in my life. What does that make me to God?

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Golden Duck

I've technically died twice in my life. What does that make me to God?

Lazurus 3.0

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danielost

I've technically died twice in my life. What does that make me to God?

someone god wasn't ready to have die twice.

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Doug1029

I've technically died twice in my life. What does that make me to God?

Move over Jesus.

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WoIverine

I've technically died twice in my life. What does that make me to God?

You've still got a reason to be here man. God has a plan for you, He calls people through very subtle means, dreams, experiences, etc. Sometimes even when people don't believe, they die, and come back. As a result, others are saved. With an experience like what you've mentioned, you could do a lot of good for others, and in doing so, you would also grow spiritually, which is what it's all about.

Edited by WoIverine
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