Gromdor Posted March 20, 2016 #26 Share Posted March 20, 2016 They aren't running for president though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sakari Posted March 20, 2016 #27 Share Posted March 20, 2016 They aren't running for president though. No, but they ( We ) would love to see someone like US that is or would run for Prez. Donald is the closest thing right now. Side note, no " real " person will ever get to run for Prez. You must be wealthy, and popular to corporations and the wealthy. No way a deserving, hard working American will ever get the backing he or she needs. Not without a revolution first to stop the corruption......Rant over. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F3SS Posted March 20, 2016 #28 Share Posted March 20, 2016 No, but they ( We ) would love to see someone like US that is or would run for Prez. Donald is the closest thing right now. Side note, no " real " person will ever get to run for Prez. You must be wealthy, and popular to corporations and the wealthy. No way a deserving, hard working American will ever get the backing he or she needs. Not without a revolution first to stop the corruption......Rant over. I could see a regular Joe making it through some kind of successful internet campaign in the future. No MSM needed. It would likely take years and years of growing popularity but in the end it will take money. However money will come to anyone who gets popular enough on the Internet. I'm not saying I know the strategy it would take and I do know that it will take a lot of work and motivation and it should. No couch potatoe or working stiff without the time or gusto could ever climb that ladder but technically they could. I don't think long time wealth, celebrity or a career in politics will always be prerequisites for a candidacy although wealth, or at least perpetual donations, and celebrity must be achieved in the long run. Who knows what a hundred more years of the Internet will bring? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Commander Travis Posted March 20, 2016 #29 Share Posted March 20, 2016 If Trump becomes President, He will not only affect America, But the whole world too Clinton even more so, in fact probably much more so. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartan max2 Posted March 20, 2016 #30 Share Posted March 20, 2016 (edited) He's the closet thing to a real choice we have. If he actually does what he says he'll do he would be a great President. But he's likely just another puppet controlled candidate that wont do anything but further harm the Nation once he's in office. Like I don't understand what he says he will do. And I have watched every single debate. His foreign policy is and I quote "bomb the **** out of them" His healthcare plan was literally only "remove states lines" until he got pressed on the issue so his team eventually made something to show His immigration plan is to build a wall and make Mexico pay for it and deport every single illegal. Mexico will never pay for it. That would cost so much money and we would have to make a whole new agency to deport everyone. Not to mention if we deport all illegals we leave alot of kids without parents. Kids who are citizens because they were born here from illegals. His economic plan is to "make better deals" by hiring "great people" In conclusion this dude has no plans. All just vague crap Edited March 20, 2016 by spartan max2 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sakari Posted March 20, 2016 #31 Share Posted March 20, 2016 His immigration plan is to build a wall and make Mexico pay for it. That would cost so much money and we would have to make a whole new agency to deport everyone. Not to mention if we deport all illegals we leave alot of kids without parents. Kids who are citizens because they were born here from illegals. Great example of how we have become pussies. ( America, not all of us, and not saying you ) Don't want to hurt anyone's feelings, even if they broke or break the law. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartan max2 Posted March 20, 2016 #32 Share Posted March 20, 2016 (edited) Great example of how we have become pussies. ( America, not all of us, and not saying you ) Don't want to hurt anyone's feelings, even if they broke or break the law. It's not about hurting feelings. If you are a kid born here. You have gone through the school system and lived in the country your whole life. You are more American at that point then anything else. So what you just deport all those kids parents?or give them a path to citizenship to pay taxes and contribute? A secure border is necessary but let's not destroy kids lives when doing it. Edited March 20, 2016 by spartan max2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sakari Posted March 20, 2016 #33 Share Posted March 20, 2016 It's not about hurting feelings. If you are a kid born here. You have gone through the school system and lived in the country your whole life. You are more American at that point then anything else. So what you just deport all those kids parents?or give them a path to citizenship to pay taxes and contribute? A secure border is necessary but let's not destroy kids lives when doing it. It's not about hurting feelings. If you are a kid born here. You have gone through the school system and lived in the country your whole life. You are more American at that point then anything else. So what you just deport all those kids parents?or give them a path to citizenship to pay taxes and contribute? A secure border is necessary but let's not destroy kids lives when doing it. They broke the law, no need for a free pass. The kids can go with them, or stay with a legal parent. Sorry, I do not feel sorry for them. We have to many legal citizen kids living ( if you call it living ) on the streets to worry about. Amazing to some, legal Mexican/Americans agree with me. At least the many I know here in Arizona. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F3SS Posted March 20, 2016 #34 Share Posted March 20, 2016 Heck, Fabio just came out in support of Trumps views on immigration. Said he's lived here since a teenager and just this week finally became a citizen. His point was that there are laws for a reason and it isn't right to simply skirt them. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Commander Travis Posted March 20, 2016 #35 Share Posted March 20, 2016 L In conclusion this dude has no plans. All just vague crap "Vague Crap 2016!" Sounds like a winning slogan. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Unicorn Posted March 20, 2016 #36 Share Posted March 20, 2016 (edited) Unfortunately, being president means saying the right things at the right time in a polite fashion. Remember Reagan jokingly saying "We begin bombing in five minutes." and all the panic that caused? That's one thing that scares me if Trump takes office. One wrong word to a nuclear power and it won't be a cold war. President has to have diplomacy with other leaders to make things work. We have Hillary to keep us on same Democratic course. A smart politician and lawyer. We have Bernie which is unlikely to get nominated. He is probably most honest for a politician and wants to change the ways of the system of politics works to get rid of the ethical corruption of battling parties and political funding. He reminds me of Ross Perot but has a record as a politician who fought wrongs in the system. Republicans now are not the same and this campaign is a circus of mostly clowns financed by the institutions that made our country poorer and profited before and after bailouts. Same players planning but with new company names and shadow finance. The bubble is happening again. Trump speaks of making country strong and powerful. He reminds me of Hitler's strength gathering devotees to the end justifies the end. He seems full of himself too full of himself and wants power. Power is a dangerous thing in the wrong hands. It can get things done very fast to rebuild a country as Hitler accomplished but it lacked the American way of personal dignity and rights. I may be wrong about Trump's motives but hes building support of of what's wrong with our country not focusing on improving what's right to build on that principle. He scares me. We don't have much choices when we vote in the current political party system. System has to get modernized to match the technology we have. In 1776 delagates and such were formed to be the fairest way in that time because of lack of timely communication. I would like to see a primary where an independent can vote for best candidates of both parties or independent in a local community. With computers the results would still show who won party support but also who has the best chance of winning independent support in the final election. Edited March 20, 2016 by White Unicorn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Commander Travis Posted March 20, 2016 #37 Share Posted March 20, 2016 That's one thing that scares me if Trump takes office. One wrong word to a nuclear power and it won't be a cold war. President has to have diplomacy with other leaders to make things work. We have Hillary to keep us on same Democratic course. A smart politician and lawyer. Hillary will keep America on the same course all right;, a course of endless war in the Middle East on Israel's behalf, and in pursuit of whichever countries are decreed to not be nice and obedient and do what America (or rather the neocons that have been in charge of its foreign policy since at least the start of the Bush II administration) demands. But no one ever seems to take any notice of that. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acidhead Posted March 20, 2016 #38 Share Posted March 20, 2016 We all will have a pretty good indication tomorrow when Trump goes before AIPAC as to if he's working for America's best interest or not. It should prove to be verrry interesting..... hopefully..... maybe not. Lyin Ted Cruz is apparently scheduled to speak directly after him. It all could be a ploy. Who really knows? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RavenHawk Posted March 20, 2016 #39 Share Posted March 20, 2016 After reading this thread, the one thing I know for sure is that Phaeton doesn’t know what he’s talking about. Yes, I am a Trump man but I will support Cruz if he’s the nominee. If it’s someone else, I’ll vote for Gary Johnson. I just don’t like Cruz in that his political/lying persona is so obvious. He twists things way out of proportion then turns around and says he’ll do the same thing Trump will. He’s just trying to separate himself from Trump and that’s fine, but it’s all about Trump. This is where Cruz has lost it; he has no identity beyond Trump. Cruz is not very well liked in Congress, but he somehow thinks that they will give him the respect of the office. But the thing is is that Congress will eventually find that backbone and deny Cruz what he wants which are the things that many of them were elected to Washington to do. So it’ll end up being more ineffectual gridlock. They were afraid of Obama, they won’t be afraid of Cruz. Trump will be tougher than Obama in this aspect. That’ll be good for the American people. There are a lot of People that don’t understand Trump. That’s part of the problem with this country. I’ve railed against this here all the time. The main reason is that most do not engage in the body politic and are not active consumers. One needs to be both to be an American. But the Socialist Establishment (Demopublicans or Republicrats) has fed Americans bread and circuses for far to long that they control us with PC. Trump will break this cycle. People get lost in his rhetoric. Trump is a decision maker. He makes deals. Don’t confuse this with compromise. But he needs to be in command of all the facts. As a candidate, he his not privy to most of what a President knows. So he can only be vague about the details. So what do we know? He’s going to close the border, bring back jobs, and take on our enemies. These are his goals and he’ll do whatever he needs to do based of the facts that he gets as President. As a Deal maker, he of course asks for more than he wants or needs. A good example of this is saying that he is going to deport 12 million illegals. And he will start the process but will settle on some form of amnesty to keep the smartest and brightest of the illegals. Just on a side point, people here illegally are not immigrants; they are felons and will have to pay restitution. Now, how is Mexico going to pay for the wall? Is Trump going to send Mexico a bill in his first 100 days? No of course not. You need to prepare for it by positioning your pieces. One way is to cut corporate taxes so much that manufacturing will return to our side of the border. That in itself may be enough to pay for it. But once you have the majority of the manufacturing, you get into a trade war until they come to their knees. Business is cutthroat and you play for keeps. Now a lot of people say that Trump is a xenophobe and racist and all this crap. All you need to do is listen to those that know him. They say he’s not these things. You see there is a difference between a nationalist and a xenophobe. We are Americans, not citizens of the world. I like to use this analogy. If the logistics were feasible, and the entire world decides to immigrate to America today, would we have an America tomorrow? It’s important to have borders, language, and culture. Protecting that is not hate of others but love of family. I also like Sanders. He and Trump are tying into the same thing, frustration and anger toward the ruling elite. They are very honest in what they believe. Bernie doesn’t have a snowball’s chance in Hell because most Americans are still anti Socialist. But it’s this frustration and anger of the establishment that Hillary is afraid of and why the Republican Establishment is peeing their pants plotting to usurp the GOP convention. That in itself is enough to tell you that Trump is the one to back. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartan max2 Posted March 20, 2016 #40 Share Posted March 20, 2016 (edited) After reading this thread, the one thing I know for sure is that Phaeton doesn’t know what he’s talking about. Yes, I am a Trump man but I will support Cruz if he’s the nominee. If it’s someone else, I’ll vote for Gary Johnson. I just don’t like Cruz in that his political/lying persona is so obvious. He twists things way out of proportion then turns around and says he’ll do the same thing Trump will. He’s just trying to separate himself from Trump and that’s fine, but it’s all about Trump. This is where Cruz has lost it; he has no identity beyond Trump. Cruz is not very well liked in Congress, but he somehow thinks that they will give him the respect of the office. But the thing is is that Congress will eventually find that backbone and deny Cruz what he wants which are the things that many of them were elected to Washington to do. So it’ll end up being more ineffectual gridlock. They were afraid of Obama, they won’t be afraid of Cruz. Trump will be tougher than Obama in this aspect. That’ll be good for the American people. There are a lot of People that don’t understand Trump. That’s part of the problem with this country. I’ve railed against this here all the time. The main reason is that most do not engage in the body politic and are not active consumers. One needs to be both to be an American. But the Socialist Establishment (Demopublicans or Republicrats) has fed Americans bread and circuses for far to long that they control us with PC. Trump will break this cycle. People get lost in his rhetoric. Trump is a decision maker. He makes deals. Don’t confuse this with compromise. But he needs to be in command of all the facts. As a candidate, he his not privy to most of what a President knows. So he can only be vague about the details. So what do we know? He’s going to close the border, bring back jobs, and take on our enemies. These are his goals and he’ll do whatever he needs to do based of the facts that he gets as President. As a Deal maker, he of course asks for more than he wants or needs. A good example of this is saying that he is going to deport 12 million illegals. And he will start the process but will settle on some form of amnesty to keep the smartest and brightest of the illegals. Just on a side point, people here illegally are not immigrants; they are felons and will have to pay restitution. Now, how is Mexico going to pay for the wall? Is Trump going to send Mexico a bill in his first 100 days? No of course not. You need to prepare for it by positioning your pieces. One way is to cut corporate taxes so much that manufacturing will return to our side of the border. That in itself may be enough to pay for it. But once you have the majority of the manufacturing, you get into a trade war until they come to their knees. Business is cutthroat and you play for keeps. Now a lot of people say that Trump is a xenophobe and racist and all this crap. All you need to do is listen to those that know him. They say he’s not these things. You see there is a difference between a nationalist and a xenophobe. We are Americans, not citizens of the world. I like to use this analogy. If the logistics were feasible, and the entire world decides to immigrate to America today, would we have an America tomorrow? It’s important to have borders, language, and culture. Protecting that is not hate of others but love of family. I also like Sanders. He and Trump are tying into the same thing, frustration and anger toward the ruling elite. They are very honest in what they believe. Bernie doesn’t have a snowball’s chance in Hell because most Americans are still anti Socialist. But it’s this frustration and anger of the establishment that Hillary is afraid of and why the Republican Establishment is peeing their pants plotting to usurp the GOP convention. That in itself is enough to tell you that Trump is the one to back. Cutting corprate tax is the free market answer to bring back jobs. But that's not trump's answer. Trumps answer I'd to increase tariffs and start trade wars. He wants to make more taxes. Based on my understanding of what I have seen him say. Talking in extremes is a good negotiation tactic I guess but when you're after my vote tell me exactly what you plan to do.its dishonest otherwise Edited March 20, 2016 by spartan max2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
preacherman76 Posted March 20, 2016 #41 Share Posted March 20, 2016 We all will have a pretty good indication tomorrow when Trump goes before AIPAC as to if he's working for America's best interest or not. It should prove to be verrry interesting..... hopefully..... maybe not. Lyin Ted Cruz is apparently scheduled to speak directly after him. It all could be a ploy. Who really knows? I actually wish I agreed with Trump enough to vote for him in a wide range of issues. Cause I have little doubt that he's for real. No way they go through this much effort to destroy someone from every angle, every main stream media outlet, every member of both parties, if they aren't really trying to destroy him. It's obvious they are terrified of him. It's really cool to see enough people not falling for it to the point he's the top dog. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phaeton80 Posted March 20, 2016 #42 Share Posted March 20, 2016 After reading this thread, the one thing I know for sure is that Phaeton doesn't know what he's talking about. Isnt that qute. The moment people like your fine self start agreeing with me is the moment I (should) start seriously doubting / re examining my position. So you defending Trump like a true fan, stating things like 'they control us with PC. Trump will break this cycle' 'Trump is a decision maker. He makes deals.'.. I wouldnt have it any other way mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatetopa Posted March 20, 2016 #43 Share Posted March 20, 2016 Trump is not a great deal maker; he is an egotistical blowhard. He would be richer still if he had taken his inheritance kept his mouth shut and invested in mutual funds. But that is not food for the ego. Still he is useful. He taps into the anti-establishment anger, and pulls it out into the open. Bernie has a similar function, just another constituency. A president is powerful, but no single man has shaped our cyclical rise and fall. The economy, business, and the rest of the world limit our decisions. Still, the elites, or the establishment, seem to increase their stranglehold on wealth and power year after year. Middle class jobs do no support the American Dream any longer. Working hard is not enough. A lot of you owe your families success to an immigrant ancestor with a fifth grade education that was willing to work in a factory 14 hours a day to send his kids to college. That door is shut. There is no longer a large enough demand for uneducated labor to make it a family wage job. Technology and automation had a hand in that more than any president. Somebody commented with nostalgia on being able to visit any doctor you wanted. Now you blame the fact you "can't" on Obama or Bush. Guess again, you can still go to any doctor you want, you still have that freedom. Bush or Obama didn't take it away. All you have to do is pay for it. Can't afford it? Well that is supply and demand; capitalism at work. RavenHawk, I am going to disagree with some of your assumptions. A deal and a compromise are the same thing. Both parties make a mutually beneficial agreement for the exchange of goods and services.There is nothing weak or dirty about that. Most business works that way. The Trump spin is that the deals he makes he gets the best of the other party because he is so smart and macho. That is just spin not fact. Trump is not going to bring back jobs, he can't. Zero taxes for corporations will not do it. He will not entice corporations to come back. India has 5 times our population, China has 10. Those are the growing markets corporations want to serve. They have no reason to come back. Consider that rich people or corporations do not create jobs. Jobs are not a charity that rich people flip to us like bread crusts to a beggar. Demand creates jobs. Jobs are a "deal". A corporation has to hire you to generate revenue for the corporation. Like the Donald, they will pay the least amount they can for the most in return. If you do not tax corporations and workers are making minimum wages, tax revenues shrink. We can cut Social Security, Medicare, school funding, and disaster relief to get by; but when defense takes its cut there won't be much left to build new roads, bridges, ports, power grids, and communication lines. That makes people more self reliant if that is your goal, but may also remove hope and create desperation. It also reduces the flow of migration if wealth is too hard to accumulate. It does nothing to enhance our position relative to the rest of the world. Russia tried to follow that course, fully funding the military while letting domestic prosperity flounder. Without their oil and natural gas resources they would be hurting even more. Sam Brownback in Kansas tried the tax and entitlement cut road. He did not entice jobs to come back. Kansas is not a model of prosperity. We are generous with foreign aid. Some of it is purely humanitarian and makes us feel good. The bulk of it is not a gift, it is an investment in preserving our power in the rest of the world. Trump suggests we stop giving away so much and take more back from the rest of the world. China would say they have already invested too heavily in our National Debt to feel comfortable giving us more. A secure border is a worthwhile goal in itself, not a way to prosperity or making America great. Disentangle the facts. A secure border is good sense, not a political platform. Finally, I guess it all depends on point of view. If you asked the top 5% of income earners in the US if we were great, they might say this is the richest and best country that has ever been. They may grouse that the bottom 95% are getting too much of a free ride and cutting into the income they deserve, but on the whole, they are better off than at any other time. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acidhead Posted March 20, 2016 #44 Share Posted March 20, 2016 I actually wish I agreed with Trump enough to vote for him in a wide range of issues. Cause I have little doubt that he's for real. No way they go through this much effort to destroy someone from every angle, every main stream media outlet, every member of both parties, if they aren't really trying to destroy him. It's obvious they are terrified of him. It's really cool to see enough people not falling for it to the point he's the top dog. Bad press is still press if you know what I mean.... they have covered him every single event since he entered. This is a big reason why he's spent so little on his campaign. The media follows him everywhere.... they're basically paying for his campaign. And who owns the media? yes.... yadda yadda yadda I think we'll learn more tomorrow. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Unicorn Posted March 20, 2016 #45 Share Posted March 20, 2016 Hillary will keep America on the same course all right;, a course of endless war in the Middle East on Israel's behalf, and in pursuit of whichever countries are decreed to not be nice and obedient and do what America (or rather the neocons that have been in charge of its foreign policy since at least the start of the Bush II administration) demands. But no one ever seems to take any notice of that. No matter who gets in there is war in middle East. It's been going on for thousands of years. How involved US is largely influenced by its intelligence community. We need a diplomatic president that considers all the facts to make an impartial informed decision with US interest first. Getting a president that does that is one of the most important issues. We never know until they get in office what they will do. People will judge them either way but only the president is informed with intelligence matters, not us until it's not declassified. I want a President who I trust not to be trigger happy with our nuclear weapons and the many other weapons and troops we have. Have American lives in mind not money motives or power. This election is like several others on the local levels, it's a matter of picking the lesser evil instead of cream of the crop. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolguy Posted March 20, 2016 #46 Share Posted March 20, 2016 Iam going to vote for him.better then hillary and samders 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+and-then Posted March 20, 2016 #47 Share Posted March 20, 2016 We all will have a pretty good indication tomorrow when Trump goes before AIPAC as to if he's working for America's best interest or not. It should prove to be verrry interesting..... hopefully..... maybe not. Lyin Ted Cruz is apparently scheduled to speak directly after him. It all could be a ploy. Who really knows? It could be very interesting indeed. I expect him to be booed at some point, maybe many. He certainly isn't pro Israel. I still think he could be a shill for the Democrats but if the choice actually comes down to Trump or Clinton, I'll be voting for Trump. If it becomes a 3 way race with Cruz on the ballot then I'll vote for Cruz. ABC! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acidhead Posted March 20, 2016 #48 Share Posted March 20, 2016 It could be very interesting indeed. I expect him to be booed at some point, maybe many. He certainly isn't pro Israel. I still think he could be a shill for the Democrats but if the choice actually comes down to Trump or Clinton, I'll be voting for Trump. If it becomes a 3 way race with Cruz on the ballot then I'll vote for Cruz. ABC! Well, if Trump is a shill for the Democrats, that actually makes him pro-Israel. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+and-then Posted March 20, 2016 #49 Share Posted March 20, 2016 Bad press is still press if you know what I mean.... they have covered him every single event since he entered. This is a big reason why he's spent so little on his campaign. The media follows him everywhere.... they're basically paying for his campaign. And who owns the media? yes.... yadda yadda yadda I think we'll learn more tomorrow. I think you expect him to receive a warm welcome at AIPAC, embraced to the backdrop of cheers and standing 'O's. Most of the Israeli press I've seen on him is quite negative. Obviously they will go negative on any candidate who doesn't slavishly spout devotion to the state of Israel but this is different. In his case they FEAR him. They realize they have no leverage and will be possibly shafted through his "deal making". Russia, especially worries them. I pray I am wrong but I fully anticipate that Hillary will escape judgement for her crimes against this nation AND be given the top job. If that happens then the rest of you guys, Canadian, Brit, Ozzie... you'd better start thinking about a post "American" world where China and Russia call the shots. The EU isn't going to ever be on the same level of power because they have their own welfare societies to fund. For all the complaining and even vitriol I see here for my country, if you think either of those two have a better view on civilized behavior and power projection then you are about to be disabused of it. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docyabut2 Posted March 20, 2016 #50 Share Posted March 20, 2016 (edited) Poll: Utah would support Democrat if Trump becomes Republican presidential nominee, http://www.aol.com/a...Lid=-1602712478 Do they know if Trump does get denied the candidacy, just how many republicans and Trump supporters will also vote for Hillary! The republican party better wise up Edited March 20, 2016 by docyabut2 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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