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pallidin

Are there Trump supporters here?

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Arbenol

I'd argue that in this facet of the discussion it is nearly the same. The Muslims who live with the rapists clearly aren't putting them forward for punishment, but are insulating them.

So given the two poles. I agree the answer is nearer the center between both. That I lumped you in with the Liberal apologists, I do apologize for. It is just that 95% of the time we have only the two choices, and I'd rather be on the side I see as protecting people, then not protecting them. (Excepting Gun Banning, but that is another issue)

Myself, I do see Trump exaggerating all the time. But all the candidates are doing so. The latest I've heard is Mrs Fiorina calling Trump a supporter of rape, because Mike Tyson said he supports Trump. It is disturbing how much mud is being thrown. Though I will not mind so much when the target of the mud throwing is Mrs Clinton.

I thank you for the concession on the statistics. I understood you were asking questions to get to the bottom of the topic, but why insist that others look it up? Why not simply look it up yourself and post that you believe it to be true? Why the long drawn out campaign? To teach some people a lesson?

I didn't really insist others look them up. I asked the questions to see if anyone else would consider them. You and PP were the only ones to put your hands up but I got the impression neither of you wanted to ask any questions that challenged the narrative. It wasn't to teach people a lesson, but if it encourages people to be more sceptical of what they're told, then I'm all for that.

I just don't think that accuracy should be optional when we cite circumstances to support a particular viewpoint.

I still find it very curious that the anonymous survey, which had a considerable sample size, indicates very little change in sexual assaults over a ten year period. Maybe that will change over time as you suggested. But in reality any upsurge should be visible now - this isn't a new issue. Time will tell I suppose.

Anyway, it's good to end this on a civil note.

Thank you

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DieChecker

I didn't really insist others look them up. I asked the questions to see if anyone else would consider them. You and PP were the only ones to put your hands up but I got the impression neither of you wanted to ask any questions that challenged the narrative. It wasn't to teach people a lesson, but if it encourages people to be more sceptical of what they're told, then I'm all for that.

I just don't think that accuracy should be optional when we cite circumstances to support a particular viewpoint.

I still find it very curious that the anonymous survey, which had a considerable sample size, indicates very little change in sexual assaults over a ten year period. Maybe that will change over time as you suggested. But in reality any upsurge should be visible now - this isn't a new issue. Time will tell I suppose.

Anyway, it's good to end this on a civil note.

Thank you

I did just post a link earlier tonight regarding Sweden in 2011. It seems that the Muslims have been a problem for some time now regarding Western Europe.

http://www.unexplain...25#entry5828851

What bothers me is when that 5% of the population is responsible for 70% of the rapes committed in a country.

https://muslimstatis...-of-population/

If that 5% were Italians, I'd say "Stop the Italians", if they were Brazilians, I'd say "Stop the Brazilians", if they were Christians, I'd say "Stop the Christians". BUT, the data says that they are Muslims. I'm sorry to say this, but it has been shown to be true across many areas of Europe. And also in the Middle East. Rapes there are often covered up, but I've read many articles where woman who have escaped say that rape is a common thing there.

EDIT: Now given, this is from anonymous sources and such, but even if it is just 25% correct it indicates a problem existed years ago. Before the current flood of migrants came north.

Edited by DieChecker

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Phaeton80

Na. They just understand that massive waves of immigrants who come from a place that is contrary to nearly every principle their hosts hold, is a really bad idea. Regardless of how the governments have tried to hide that fact, europe has more then proven that.

Nah.. Understanding doesnt seem to be a strong point. Like jumping from 'Muslims raping and pillaging' to 'concern of cultural stability following the unlimited influx of immigrants'. The former I replied to with the post you quoted, the latter; well, you would be wise to blame your government for.

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Jatt.007

There are plenty of Trump supporters Us and Uk, His policies are built on scare tactics and racism- no jobs=blame immigrants etc, High crime= must be the people who look different.Although these ideas will get plenty of votes they are not realistic and the educated people realise this.

However it really dont matter, Hillary clinton will be president. That was decided a while back, thats why she stayed with Bill-after Monika Lewinsky.:)

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Arbenol

I did just post a link earlier tonight regarding Sweden in 2011. It seems that the Muslims have been a problem for some time now regarding Western Europe.

http://www.unexplain...25#entry5828851

EDIT: Now given, this is from anonymous sources and such, but even if it is just 25% correct it indicates a problem existed years ago. Before the current flood of migrants came north.

The tentative conclusion that I draw on this issue is that Sweden does not have a 'rape epidemic', but non-nationals are vastly over represented amongst perpetrators.

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The tentative conclusion that I draw on this issue is that Sweden does not have a 'rape epidemic', but non-nationals are vastly over represented amongst perpetrators.

Besides, in Sweden it is already rape if you fail to put on a condom before intercourse... unless the partner specifically allows you to do it "naked", if the numbers of rapes are higher it is not necessarily because society got more violent against sexually desired persons.

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Arbenol

Besides, in Sweden it is already rape if you fail to put on a condom before intercourse... unless the partner specifically allows you to do it "naked", if the numbers of rapes are higher it is not necessarily because society got more violent against sexually desired persons.

I think this is one of the most important factors that people tend to overlook. There has been a complete review about how Sweden classifies rape and collects information about individual offences. A review of judicial processes is credited with increasing trust in the system and subsequently a higher proportion of offences are now reported. Sexual offences are notoriously underreported globally and one can argue that Sweden has done than most to try and rectify this.

All these factors, when figured together, lead to rape figures being inevitably higher than in other comparable countries. As we all know, reported crime and actual crime are two very different things.

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I think this is one of the most important factors that people tend to overlook. There has been a complete review about how Sweden classifies rape and collects information about individual offences. A review of judicial processes is credited with increasing trust in the system and subsequently a higher proportion of offences are now reported. Sexual offences are notoriously underreported globally and one can argue that Sweden has done than most to try and rectify this.

All these factors, when figured together, lead to rape figures being inevitably higher than in other comparable countries. As we all know, reported crime and actual crime are two very different things.

I always have advised caution when trying to compare "crime statistics" from one country to another. If we go by that the most violent country would be Iceland... where every bar room brawl is considered a violent crime. Now, if you actually go there to get some action you will find that it is more boring than Zurich past midnight.

Edited by questionmark
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DieChecker

Besides, in Sweden it is already rape if you fail to put on a condom before intercourse... unless the partner specifically allows you to do it "naked", if the numbers of rapes are higher it is not necessarily because society got more violent against sexually desired persons.

Now that is some public health legislation to brag about... "Now Johann be sure and put a condom on. We want negative population growth, you know."

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DieChecker

I always have advised caution when trying to compare "crime statistics" from one country to another. If we go by that the most violent country would be Iceland... where every bar room brawl is considered a violent crime. Now, if you actually go there to get some action you will find that it is more boring than Zurich past midnight.

This is true. I was listening to someone talk about rape in Western countries, and they stated that there was more rape in the western world because the statistics show it to be so. But, we know that rape occurs in South America, Africa, The Middle East and India at a much higher rate then the "industrialized world", but is simply not reported. A woman basically has to die in India for a rape to be reported.

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Now that is some public health legislation to brag about... "Now Johann be sure and put a condom on. We want negative population growth, you know."

The idea behind that was slightly more feminist... but what finally gave it the edge was AIDS.

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preacherman76

First, let Europe and the rest of the world mind their own borders.

Mmm, ok. Not sure exactly what I said that would make you think I want to mind their boarders, but whatever.

Meanwhile we should do what's right for us, not copy them.

Yeah that was my point.

This isn't the United States of Israel.

Are you sure you meant to quote me??? Why would you think I think we are the United States of Israel?

Second, illegal immigration isn't the problem it was 10 or 20 years ago.

If we allow millions of unvetted muslims to invade small town America it will be just as bad or worse than any other time.

You Trump supporters sound like liberals wanting sweeping new gun control laws because crime is just so damn bad. Crime isn't what it was 10 or 20 years ago damnit.

Trump supporters??? Whatever. Im done explaining this to you. Especially considering you are responding to a conversation that has nothing to do with Mexicans, or walls, or for that matter Trump.

Third, a wall isn't going to do a gddamned thing. Why the bloody hell are Trump supporters whining like babies for such an utter waste of money?

I'd like to see the list of "nearly every principle" too. Sounds fascinating. ;)

You're right about one thing. They understand it like you say. *sigh*

I don't know. Ask a Trump supporter. What does any of this have to do with learning a lesson about letting huge waves of muslims in the country like they did in Europe?

Just to add though, no a wall in and of its self wouldn't do much. Id take those bases over sea's and plant them all along the boarder, if I was inclined to build a wall.

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Ashotep

Unfortunatly for you, the majority who vote for Trump consist of young frustrated white males, which considering the American demographics isn't enough to win the election.

Read this and weep.

Trump needs only 800,000 more votes to surpass George W. Bush, who earned a record 10.8 million popular votes on his way to the White House in 2000.

Trump has more primary votes than Romney received in all of 2012

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Ashotep

There are plenty of Trump supporters Us and Uk, His policies are built on scare tactics and racism- no jobs=blame immigrants etc, High crime= must be the people who look different.Although these ideas will get plenty of votes they are not realistic and the educated people realise this.

However it really dont matter, Hillary clinton will be president. That was decided a while back, thats why she stayed with Bill-after Monika Lewinsky. :)

So your saying anyone that votes for Trump is uneducated. That is false, that is something being put out by the left. What Trump is saying is true just most politicians just don't have the backbone to say it. It is a fact that most crimes are committed by minorities and many of them are illegals.

Illegal aliens murder more people inside the USA every year than were killed in the attack on Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941.

Illegal aliens murder more people inside the USA every year than were killed on 9/11.

Illegal aliens murder 25 times more people inside the USA every year than were killed in the Oklahoma City bombing.

Since 9/11.. Illegal aliens have murdered more people inside the USA than were killed in all of our Indian Wars starting from 1776.

Since 9/11.. Illegal aliens have murdered more people in the USA than were killed on 9/11 plus all our war dead so far in Afghanistan and Iraq combined.

While 1,000 illegal aliens crossed the border with Pancho Villa (and then went home), today between 5,000 and 10,000 illegal aliens cross the border each day (and stay).

http://www.usborderpatrol.com/Border_Patrol90h.htm

20,000 illegals with criminal convictions released into U.S. communities in 2015

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Phaeton80

If we allow millions of unvetted muslims to invade small town America it will be just as bad or worse than any other time.

Where do you get this from PM? 'Millions of unvetted Muslims invade small town America..' It doesnt have any basis in reality. And in Europe these people were explicitly asked to be here because we needed workers in the 70ies & 80ies. The rest of them were consciously allowed in throughout the years, and the absolute lionpart of them have integrated quite succesfully. If these people are posing a problem in certain neighbourhoods, acting like thugs, the police should act accordingly. Just like they do with anyone else. Prosecute criminals with extreme prejudice, but dont generalise that behaviour as being some sort of inherent attribute of that congregation. We did it with all 'others' that didnt play game. The indians were primitive beasts murdering and pillaging innocent white women. The Blacks more or less did thesame. The Jews were attributed with their inherent, evil attributes. Now we have the Muslims in the crosshares. Its so very conditioned, generalised nonsense.. And coming from someone like yourself, privy to a lot of the machinations behind the scenes, divide and rule tactics.. well I just dont understand you could maintain the simplistic and fearful position you seem to hold here.

I personally do not agree with the level of foreign culture influx, but to paint these people as inherently criminal (this is exactly what is being done in this thread), maintaining some fearmongering disposition - posing they are 'invading either Europe or the USA' - is simply misrepresenting, tendentious, bigoted nonsense. And quite frankly extremely unbecoming, simplistic, primitive behaviour. We only have our own governments to blame for any of the extreme phenomena that might have arisen (like posse's walking around neighbourhoods demanding their specific variant of Sharia law is respected (these are freak incidents in contradiction to popular belief, but neverthesless should be acted upon immediately) incidents of (mass) rape, neighbourhoods where cops do not enter etc etc).. What we should ask ourselves, is why the local police will not act against it. Why do you think that is?!

Jumping on the Muslim hordes ready to invade the US or Europe for that matter, ready to rape and pillage our society.. is just, well sad really. The only real threat are the people who are so easily swayed to fear people they see as 'not them'. Ignorance breeds fear, fear breeds hate; and hate breeds crimes against humanity. Everyone knows history repeats itself, but this is ridiculous. Why dont you wake the F up and smell the conditioning. Oh and besides lamenting your government for her immigration policy, you might want to add foreign policy to that list. Theres a great deal of causality at play here, which, projected on the stance of certain individuals here, might be interpreted as an impressive level of hypocricy. You know, first delving a nation in utter chaos, to then proceed to complain if and when the victims of that policy are coming to seek refuge in your nation.

Edited by Phaeton80
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Phaeton80

Apologies for the incoherent parts and overlap in former post, Im a bit tired..

'Jumping on the Muslim hordes ready to invade the US or Europe for that matter' should read: Jumping on the 'Muslim hordes ready to invade the US' bandwagon, or Europe for that matter [..]

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Paranormal Panther

I'm afraid you're doing it yourself. You're equating all refugees (not all of whom are even Muslim) with rapists. And equating Muslims with rapists, whether they're refugees or not.

I'm not. I don't claim that all or most of them are rapists. I sometimes mention that most of them are not. Too many of them, in Europe, are, though.

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Paranormal Panther

Don't be so touchy. I actually gave you some credit.

I apologise if you thought my "rabid mouth-frothing" description was aimed at you. It wasn't.

Actually, I didn't think you were "curt and rude" at all.

All is forgiven. Let's grab some pints of Guinness. :)

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Paranormal Panther

Now that is some public health legislation to brag about... "Now Johann be sure and put a condom on. We want negative population growth, you know."

We should add that Sweden has no monopoly on the problem. The same phenomenon can be charted in other countries.

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