Big Jim Posted March 27, 2016 #226 Share Posted March 27, 2016 I think we ( USA Citizens ) should be able to vote on this. Not some idiot making this decision. We can vote on it. The name is Trump. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daughter of the Nine Moons Posted March 27, 2016 #227 Share Posted March 27, 2016 "Hateful" and "truthful" aren't synonymous. If you're referring to personal jabs, that's another thing. If you're talking about posting facts about fanatical Muslims, that's sad. The stakes are too high to post bull____. My post wasn't that complicated. I am talking about "civil and courteous behaviour" period. If you are unsure of what that means please take the time to familiarize yourself with this or feel free to send me a PM. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Likely Guy Posted March 27, 2016 #228 Share Posted March 27, 2016 I think we ( USA Citizens ) should be able to vote on this. Not some idiot making this decision. Should every foreign policy decision be decided by plebiscite? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sakari Posted March 27, 2016 #229 Share Posted March 27, 2016 (edited) Should every foreign policy decision be decided by plebiscite? No, but considering the USA is " Our " Country..." The People ", we should get a say in this one. And, it is OUR taxes paying for it. One guy, living in the security of the White House, and personal security the rest of his life should not have the final say in this. Edited March 27, 2016 by Sakari 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Likely Guy Posted March 27, 2016 #230 Share Posted March 27, 2016 We can vote on it. The name is Trump. Sakari: "Not some idiot making this decision." Likely Guy: There's the perfect... decision maker. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astra. Posted March 27, 2016 #231 Share Posted March 27, 2016 (edited) Hungary isn't feeling very cooperative either..!!! I didn't know which thread to put this in - this one, the EU referendum one or the migrant crisis one - but it compliments your post about Poland -- Orban telling it like it is.... edit to add --- I don't really agree with the term 'war footing' in the title - I would look at it more as speaking up and resisting EU dictatorship... . Kudos for Orban telling it like it is - and not rolling over to any pressure from the EU. The irony is - (as in what he has expressed) - many here had already conveyed their grave concerns earlier in other threads - after Germany had already opened their door to the flood of refugees entering into their country. (Sadly..this has now come back to bite them - including other countries) in an unprecedented and extremely disturbing way. Much of what he said - had already been predicted earlier (basic common sense I suppose) concerning the terrorists whom would likely take advantage of the mass exodus of the 'genuine' refugees searching for safe havens - whilst they (the snakes) amongst the spill of thousands - would slither their way in. Orban's analogy of Europe being described as... "a flower being eaten away from a hidden worm"... hit all the right marks. As that's exactly what is happening in parts of Europe - unless of course... something drastically is done to reverse the situation.. (whatever that may be though...time will only tell) He was also very right when he'd conveyed.. "The leader and citizens of Europe must not live in two separate worlds. We must restore the unity. If we unite our forces, we shall succeed; if we pull in different directions, we shall fail". Lets hope that other European leaders take note of what this man has had to say. As that is what ISIS craves - split Europe by causing division.. turmoil.. and inner conflict with it's leaders. Edited March 27, 2016 by Astra. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmk1245 Posted March 27, 2016 #232 Share Posted March 27, 2016 Its just a start... More "fun" to come... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astra. Posted March 27, 2016 #233 Share Posted March 27, 2016 I'm not so sure that acquiring nuclear material is the only concern. Since Europe generates most of its power with nuclear reactors one or two good hits would put them back in the dark ages. This may fit well with the plans of those who would take us back there anyway. Seems the security / protection concerning these nuclear reactors were lacking to begin with (the terrorists obviously knew this) It is only now - they have ramped up the security by having to request it. “This is part of a comprehensive operation for the protection of power plants,” Serge Dauby, director of communications at Electrabel, was quoted as saying. “In many countries, there is protection. For us, it was not the case, that’s why we requested it.” http://www.politico....ussels-attacks/.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bee Posted March 27, 2016 #234 Share Posted March 27, 2016 This man, though I know little else of him, seems to be the only leader with the sanity and guts to say what needs saying and to follow it up with action. From what I can see and with my limited understanding of these issues I can only imagine one path to continued freedom in Europe. Current leaders need to be replaced or deposed and a civil war to root out the extremists is necessary. The world needs to accept that a significant portion of adherents to Islam are anti west and anti modernity and they are willing to destroy civilization as we've known it for the sake of their worship. The question now is will the Europeans have the courage to fight for their culture or will they just give in and become submissive? I don't have much reason to believe they'll fight. ETA - with the exception of the few. I hope I am wrong about that. If Orban develops a following I suspect he won't live long. (re the Viktor Orban, PM of Hungary, speech ^ ) underlined above -- can't disagree with that -- although it's difficult to isolate the 'extremists' because they are embedded within areas that are to all intents and purposes separate colonies within the host nation - and the bombers and shooters probably have more support than we are lead to believe - even if that involves just turning a blind eye and a deaf ear - take the Brussels, muslim man who was recently arrested for being the mastermind of the Paris attacks - he was practically the world's most wanted man and there he was living in Brussels and apparently even walking around the streets sometimes - :/ If a political / religious group takes advantage of the freedoms on offer in Europe --- to promote their own agenda which involves removing freedoms that we now take for granted --- this is a tricky situation --- because they are protected by the laws that they would soon change if they got significant political power through the democratic process... Will any European country or the EU ever dare to do what Angola did...?.... http://www.worldbulletin.net/news/163865/angola-bans-islam-shuts-down-mosques Claiming that Islam was a sect, the African nation of Angola becomes the first country to ban Islam, Muslims and has shut down the mosques in the country. It's tough for the muslims who would like to ease off and become much more westernised because of family and community pressures -- look what happened to that shop keeper in Glasgow ---- banning a religion doesn't mean banning the actual people - . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bee Posted March 27, 2016 #235 Share Posted March 27, 2016 Change a few locations and other details and that speech could apply just as well to the United States. After 7 years of failure to even recognize or name the problem it was refreshing to hear a real man speak the truth. The closest we have is Donald Trump. Four more years of doing nothing could be irreversible. (re Viktor Orban speech ^ ) underlined above --- I agree our own PM Cameron is in such denial of what the future may hold for Western values that during the general election campaign when he was addressing an all muslim gathering cheerfully told them ---- "the first Conservative Muslim Prime Minister may be in this room now" - --- . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bee Posted March 27, 2016 #236 Share Posted March 27, 2016 (edited) Kudos for Orban telling it like it is - and not rolling over to any pressure from the EU. The irony is - (as in what he has expressed) - many here had already conveyed their grave concerns earlier in other threads - after Germany had already opened their door to the flood of refugees entering into their country. (Sadly..this has now come back to bite them - including other countries) in an unprecedented and extremely disturbing way. Much of what he said - had already been predicted earlier (basic common sense I suppose) concerning the terrorists whom would likely take advantage of the mass exodus of the 'genuine' refugees searching for safe havens - whilst they (the snakes) amongst the spill of thousands - would slither their way in. Orban's analogy of Europe being described as... "a flower being eaten away from a hidden worm"... hit all the right marks. As that's exactly what is happening in parts of Europe - unless of course... something drastically is done to reverse the situation.. (whatever that may be though...time will only tell) He was also very right when he'd conveyed.. "The leader and citizens of Europe must not live in two separate worlds. We must restore the unity. If we unite our forces, we shall succeed; if we pull in different directions, we shall fail". Lets hope that other European leaders take note of what this man has had to say. As that is what ISIS craves - split Europe by causing division.. turmoil.. and inner conflict with it's leaders. It WAS a very honest and forthright speech - and I though - wow - a European leader actually saying what most European citizens are probably thinking - like -- re mass migration -- " ...it is masquerading as a humanitarian cause but it's true nature is the occupation of territory..." and something that is a worry - about social engineering to weaken the power of individual countries making everyone and everything easier to control (in theory) --- he says -- ".... It is forbidden to point out that the purpose of settling people here is to reshape the religious and cultural landscape of Europe, and to engineer it's ethnic foundations -- thererby eliminating the last barrier to internationalism - the nation state..." ---------------------------------- hope all this isn't going too off topic -- but I think it's all related to the problems that become all too obvious when Muslims who were born and brought up in the West -- like in Brussels -- commit terrorist acts against their own countrymen and women --- but to them of course they aren't their fellow countrymen and women - they are the non believers, the enemy - their loyalties lie elsewhere . Edited March 27, 2016 by bee 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHaYap Posted March 27, 2016 #237 Share Posted March 27, 2016 Safe Havens In recent conflicts, the civilian casualty rate has reached nine of 10 casualties, compared with only one of 10 at the beginning of the 20th century. Safe-havens are protected locations where refugees and war victims can come to escape the violence in their communities. Safe Havens By Sophie Haspeslagh November 2003 On March 31, 2003, thousands gathered outside the Bosnian town of Srebrenica for a mass funeral, commemorating more than 7,000 men and boys slaughtered when the Serbs attacked this U.N.-designated "safe area" in 1995.[1] The massacre highlights the dubious value of safe-haven operations throughout the 1990s. However, in a world with a high civilian casualty rate (nine of 10 casualties in recent conflicts, compared with only one of 10 at the beginning of the 20th century), it is crucial to examine whether safe-haven operations can still be useful in protecting the lives of Internally Displaced Persons (IDPs) and would-be refugees. Beyond intractability link ~ The White House Office of the Press Secretary For Immediate Release December 01, 2009 Remarks by the President in Address to the Nation on the Way Forward in Afghanistan and Pakistan 8:01 P.M. EST *** As President, I refuse to set goals that go beyond our responsibility, our means, or our interests. And I must weigh all of the challenges that our nation faces. I don't have the luxury of committing to just one. Indeed, I'm mindful of the words of President Eisenhower, who -- in discussing our national security -- said, "Each proposal must be weighed in the light of a broader consideration: the need to maintain balance in and among national programs." Over the past several years, we have lost that balance. We've failed to appreciate the connection between our national security and our economy. In the wake of an economic crisis, too many of our neighbors and friends are out of work and struggle to pay the bills. Too many Americans are worried about the future facing our children. Meanwhile, competition within the global economy has grown more fierce. So we can't simply afford to ignore the price of these wars. ` white house gov link ~ Syrian peace talks: War-weary refugees say they're not interested in empty promises 'Our lives have been on hold for the past 5 years ... I am tired of waiting and I need to settle down' By Ghalia Bdiwe, CBC News Posted: Feb 09, 2016 11:00 AM ET Last Updated: Feb 09, 2016 11:00 AM ET *** Searching for optimism Though watching what is happening in their country is a painful experience for many Syrians, most are still hoping for the best when it comes to the Geneva talks. "Leaving Syria does not mean that I don't care any more," says Mohamed Alchebli, who fled his home in Aleppo in 2012, heading to Lebanon. *** cbc ca link ~ Complete, utterly abject failure and empty promises which are no better than blatant and outright lies ... ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sakari Posted March 27, 2016 #238 Share Posted March 27, 2016 Sakari: "Not some idiot making this decision." Likely Guy: There's the perfect... decision maker. I never said anything about Trump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astra. Posted March 27, 2016 #239 Share Posted March 27, 2016 It WAS a very honest and forthright speech - and I though - wow - a European leader actually saying what most European citizens are probably thinking - like -- re mass migration -- " ...it is masquerading as a humanitarian cause but it's true nature is the occupation of territory..." and something that is a worry - about social engineering to weaken the power of individual countries making everyone and everything easier to control (in theory) --- he says -- ".... It is forbidden to point out that the purpose of settling people here is to reshape the religious and cultural landscape of Europe, and to engineer it's ethnic foundations -- thererby eliminating the last barrier to internationalism - the nation state..." ---------------------------------- hope all this isn't going too off topic -- but I think it's all related to the problems that become all too obvious when Muslims who were born and brought up in the West -- like in Brussels -- commit terrorist acts against their own countrymen and women --- but to them of course they aren't their fellow countrymen and women - they are the non believers, the enemy - their loyalties lie elsewhere Yep - everything that Orban had expressed is what most Europeans think and probably also want to say. Gone are the days of open arms and the cheerful 'you are welcome here' slogans by countries who were once happy to take them in. It truly is a mess on a monumental scale. I can understand why countries are clamping down on taking in any more of these people. Most are already aware of the 'home grown variety' of Muslims who have either been raised or born into Western countries - who have then turned on the very countries that adopted / hosted them. But what is the answer ? - do countries start deporting them ? - where do they send them to ? Once the walls / fences go up to keep them out - where do they go ? - back to where they came from ? Then there are those who have already settled in Muslim communities - how many can be trusted as not to help and give protection to terrorists on the run from authorities - (as had recently happened in Paris) What the hell is the answer ?....it's a vicious cycle 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pallidin Posted March 27, 2016 #240 Share Posted March 27, 2016 I wonder how we stop these types of activities from ISIS and Company. In Europe and elsewhere. You know, it's just so disheartening to me... Children and other "non-combatants" blown-apart in some "Glory to Allah" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pallidin Posted March 27, 2016 #241 Share Posted March 27, 2016 (edited) Just happened today... (CNN) A suicide blast in Pakistan's southwestern city of Lahore has killed at least 63 people, a senior police official told CNN. Some 200 others were injured, police official Haider Ashraf said. Officials said the blast was from a suicide bomber and happened at the city's Gulshan Iqbal Park. The explosion ripped through the heart of Lahore on Sunday evening, at a time when many families were at the park. http://www.cnn.com/2...last/index.html Edited March 27, 2016 by pallidin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sakari Posted March 27, 2016 #242 Share Posted March 27, 2016 I wonder how we stop these types of activities from ISIS and Company. In Europe and elsewhere. You know, it's just so disheartening to me... Children and other "non-combatants" blown-apart in some "Glory to Allah" It is about religion, radicalized or not, it all starts with the Quran.... Sooner or later ( looks like later for some ) the majority will be sick of this, and get rid of the Cancer from the source. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer77 Posted March 27, 2016 #243 Share Posted March 27, 2016 It is about religion, radicalized or not, it all starts with the Quran.... Sooner or later ( looks like later for some ) the majority will be sick of this, and get rid of the Cancer from the source. You gotta look deeper bro. Its about MONEY. If Saddam hadnt decided to sell oil in currency other than dollars than we would not have invaded and made his professional soldiers unemployed and easy prey to extremist groups. Had Assad not decided to sell oil in currency other than US dollars he would still be in charge of his nation and it wouldnt be a safe haven for militants and ISIS' arsenal would be much smaller. Had Turkey chosen to NOT do business with ISIS and buy their oil, they would also be a much less effective force. If the military industrial complex didnt make the decisions in this nation we would be having a much different conversation about "islamic terrorism" perhaps not even talking about it at all. Afterall toddlers did kill more Americans in 2015 than terrorists. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sakari Posted March 27, 2016 #244 Share Posted March 27, 2016 (edited) You gotta look deeper bro. Its about MONEY. If Saddam hadnt decided to sell oil in currency other than dollars than we would not have invaded and made his professional soldiers unemployed and easy prey to extremist groups. Had Assad not decided to sell oil in currency other than US dollars he would still be in charge of his nation and it wouldnt be a safe haven for militants and ISIS' arsenal would be much smaller. Had Turkey chosen to NOT do business with ISIS and buy their oil, they would also be a much less effective force. If the military industrial complex didnt make the decisions in this nation we would be having a much different conversation about "islamic terrorism" perhaps not even talking about it at all. Afterall toddlers did kill more Americans in 2015 than terrorists. Money is not telling them we are infidels, Alah is. Above looks like an excuse that it is ok for them to do this." Not their fault "...Pointing the blame at the U.S " Military Complex " is ridiculous.......... Edited March 27, 2016 by Sakari 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Area Posted March 27, 2016 #245 Share Posted March 27, 2016 (edited) Money is not telling them we are infidels, Alah is. Above looks like an excuse that it is ok for them to do this." Not their fault "...Pointing the blame at the U.S " Military Complex " is ridiculous.......... Farmer has a point though. Radical ideologies will always exist, they exist in modern western society as much as they do in the Middle East, maybe more so, but it's about having the room to breed and develope. In a developed nation with established police forces and infrastructures they will not develope into full blown militant movements because they will be put down before they can reach a size and sophistication necessary to challenge the establishment. Edited March 27, 2016 by Grey Area 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pallidin Posted March 27, 2016 #246 Share Posted March 27, 2016 Farmer has a point though. Radical ideologies will always exist, they exist in modern western society as much as they do in the Middle East, maybe more so, but it's about having the room to breed and develope. In a developed nation with established police forces and infrastructures they will not develope into full blown militant movements because they will be put down before they can reach a size and sophistication necessary to challenge the establishment. Perhaps, but there seems to be only a few "radical ideologies", under one general banner, which fervently feel that blowing-up "infidel spawned" children and non-combatants is a favored, praised activity in their sub-culture. Recall that, in their sub-culture, a 2-year old child of a presumed "infidel" is as much an infidel as the parent(s), thus worthy of death. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer77 Posted March 27, 2016 #247 Share Posted March 27, 2016 (edited) Farmer has a point though. Radical ideologies will always exist, they exist in modern western society as much as they do in the Middle East, maybe more so, but it's about having the room to breed and develope. In a developed nation with established police forces and infrastructures they will not develope into full blown militant movements because they will be put down before they can reach a size and sophistication necessary to challenge the establishment. Very well said. Money is not telling them we are infidels, Alah is. Above looks like an excuse that it is ok for them to do this." Not their fault "...Pointing the blame at the U.S " Military Complex " is ridiculous.......... Not an excuse for their actions AT ALL. They own the fault for everything they do. We perhaps however own the fault for designing a perfect environment for them to thrive in. Edited March 27, 2016 by Farmer77 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pallidin Posted March 27, 2016 #248 Share Posted March 27, 2016 And with these radicals, "Muslims" are not excluded from destruction just because they are Muslims. Oh no. They MUST also subscribe to Sharia interpretation, else they are also considered "infidels" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sakari Posted March 27, 2016 #249 Share Posted March 27, 2016 And with these radicals, "Muslims" are not excluded from destruction just because they are Muslims. Oh no. They MUST also subscribe to Sharia interpretation, else they are also considered "infidels" Latest Bombing targeted Christians at a Easter event. It IS a religious war. Only thing is, only one religion is fighting, and everyone is their enemy. Time to wake up and do something about it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer77 Posted March 27, 2016 #250 Share Posted March 27, 2016 (edited) Latest Bombing targeted Christians at a Easter event. It IS a religious war. Only thing is, only one religion is fighting, and everyone is their enemy. Time to wake up and do something about it. That side isnt doing a very good job of fighting it considering toddlers killed more of the great satan Americans in 2015 than they did. While they suck at the actual fighting part based on this forum the terror aspect of their plan seems to be working quite well Edited March 27, 2016 by Farmer77 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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