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5 massive lies the Bible tells re Jesus

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Space Commander Travis

In that case, I made that comment because I felt it was relevant. MC is just a lost teenage boy and his commentary rarely leads to understanding.

Oh i see, sorry, I thought you were talking about Mangoze. (Or possibly me.)
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GlitterRose

I know there is a God, because only a God could have created Women. Rose, Barb, I know you disagree, but you are both good people and people of good conscience often disagree. Be kind to one-another and respect each other's boundaries. From such disagreements great friendships are born. Peace unto both of you. :yes:

Thanks. I'm not sure there's a God, but the Golden Rule sounds divinely inspired to me. The fact that you can find it throughout other cultures is interesting. Even if none of these prophets or saviors ever actually existed, somehow, that message got out. I can't help thinking that's a good thing.

As for me and Barb, eh...in 5 minutes I'll probably find myself agreeing with her on some other discussion.

Edited by ChaosRose
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barbco196

A whole lot, Barb. Just read all the Mosaic laws which we don't adhere to. We don't take women who commit adultery out and stone them to death. Jesus told us to ignore that one. Yet it's right there in the Bible, brought down from Mount Ararat.

If that's what you are talking about 'scratching out', then yes. You're right. We don't have to follow those laws. I misunderstood the conversation. I just simply meant we can't pick and choose verses. That everything is in The Bible for a reason.

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barbco196

You say this and then you go and agree with that sign.

Ugh...I give up.

I agree with a sign. So? What does that have to do with my comment you just quoted?

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barbco196

Thanks. I'm not sure there's a God, but the Golden Rule sounds divinely inspired to me. The fact that you can find it throughout other cultures is interesting. Even if none of these prophets or saviors ever actually existed, somehow, that message got out. I can't help thinking that's a good thing.

As for me and Barb, eh...in 5 minutes I'll probably find myself agreeing with her on some other discussion.

I see time and time again on this site that the people I 'bump heads' with have the most to teach me. Whether it's patience, kindness, or knowledge. We'll see. I think with you, there is a glitch in understanding.

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Arbenol

I think Mystic Crusader answered your questions for me, but you have to consider the concept of salt in the Bible. Salt acts as a preservative and a flavoring agent. An easy way to test the concept : next time you're in a grocery store, buy a can of "no-salt-added" green beans, and then pay attention to the tiny amount of salt it takes to them edible (and consider the ratio of salt volume to green bean volume). In the same way as salt, the influence of just one appropriate Bible verse, when applied to one's everyday life, is magnified all out of proportion to the amount used.

So which bits are productive? Well, as TheMustardLady said in an earlier post, "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you" is a universal concept (though it's best understood within the context of the four gospels). So, I say we start with that one. Post it in every classroom, courtroom, government building, commercial building...That one tiny verse will have a big impact on our society.

Entertaining bean analogies aside, you didn't address my question.

How do you know that "DO unto other etc......" is better than (to paraphrase) "put to death all homosexuals, unruly children and people who believe in the wrong God"?

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GoldenWolf

hey athiests. nice try. we see you are trying to proselytize here. why try? just ignore the christians and others and let us be? OHHHHHH I GET IT, you want to persecute us.......ahhhhhhh just go mind your own business.

History has clearly shown you guy's are the persecutors, now people are fighting back, and you guys have the gall to say you are being persecuted? All we are doing is trying to talk, where as you guys want our heads.

You can't cry persecution when people fight back.

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docyabut2

I wish people would under stand the Bible. Jesus was real, a rebel and a comforter to his people against a establishment, in that no one was separated in love from mankind , but writers did glorified him.

Edited by docyabut2
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back to earth

Under that supposition , we could substitute Marx, Castro or Guevara, for Jesus ..... religiously, the glorification is essential !

Edited by back to earth
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barbco196

History has clearly shown you guy's are the persecutors, now people are fighting back, and you guys have the gall to say you are being persecuted? All we are doing is trying to talk, where as you guys want our heads.

You can't cry persecution when people fight back.

You guys? Fight back? This isn't a frickin war. We believe in Jesus and his message of LOVE ONE ANOTHER. What part of that message creates separation or confusion?

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Mr Walker

Again...I have to ask if you've read your bible. Indeed, there is a belief that Jesus descended into Hell after his death to release the souls that had gone there prior to his salvation. The Apostle's Creed, which is widely used by many Christian denominations clearly states this.

The Apostles' Creed (Latin: Symbolum Apostolorum or Symbolum Apostolicum), sometimes titled Symbol of the Apostles, is an early statement ofChristian belief—a creed or "symbol".[a] It is widely used by a number of Christian denominations for both liturgical and catechetical purposes, most visibly by liturgical Churches of Western tradition, including the Roman Catholic Church, Lutheranism and Anglicanism. It is also used byPresbyterians, Methodists and Congregationalists.

Here is part of the Creed with the line that he descended into Hell...

I believe in Jesus Christ, God’s only Son, our Lord,

who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,

born of the Virgin Mary,

suffered under Pontius Pilate,

was crucified, died, and was buried;

he descended into hell.

On the third day he rose again;

he ascended into heaven,

he is seated at the right hand of the Father,

and he will come to judge the living and the dead.

It seems the more posts I see from you, the more apparent it is that you don't know a lot about your religion.

https://www.google.c...WWefy7uYJZhgrJw

There is a lot of disagreement about correct translations in biblical terminology. The word sheol for example means the grave and this was often translated as hades which was a greek concept for hell. Thus this creed actually says IMO that christ descended into the grave and then was resurrected and ascended into heaven Ive never actually met a christian or read a christian theology which says or thought christ died, then went to hell, then went to heaven although i am sure some exist.

When the Hebrew scriptures were translated into Greek in ancient Alexandria around 200 BC, the word "Hades" (the Greek underworld) was substituted for Sheol, and this is reflected in the New Testament where Hades is both the underworld of the dead and the personification of the evil it represents.

Early Christianity adapted the Judaic concept of sheol as a grave, to one of a broader place after death, and it would appear some Christians read the translation and think christ went to hell after death rather than the grave The king james verion is a more accurate reflection than some bibles, as it translates sheol directly to the grave or the pit, rather than to a hell or underworld

examples

Genesis 37:35

HEB: בְּנִ֛י אָבֵ֖ל שְׁאֹ֑לָה וַיֵּ֥בְךְּ אֹת֖וֹ

NAS: I will go down to Sheol in mourning

KJV: For I will go down into the grave unto my son

INT: my son mourning to Sheol wept his father

Genesis 42:38

HEB: שֵׂיבָתִ֛י בְּיָג֖וֹן שְׁאֽוֹלָה׃

NAS: my gray hair down to Sheol in sorrow.

KJV: with sorrow to the grave.

INT: my gray sorrow to Sheol

Genesis 44:29

HEB: שֵׂיבָתִ֛י בְּרָעָ֖ה שְׁאֹֽלָה׃

NAS: my gray hair down to Sheol in sorrow.'

KJV: with sorrow to the grave.

INT: my gray sorrow to Sheol

Genesis 44:31

HEB: אָבִ֛ינוּ בְּיָג֖וֹן שְׁאֹֽלָה׃

NAS: our father down to Sheol in sorrow.

KJV: our father with sorrow to the grave.

INT: our father sorrow to Sheol

Numbers 16:30

HEB: וְיָרְד֥וּ חַיִּ֖ים שְׁאֹ֑לָה וִֽידַעְתֶּ֕ם כִּ֧י

NAS: alive into Sheol, then you will understand

KJV: quick into the pit; then ye shall understand

INT: descend alive Sheol will understand for

I give you that it is all a matter of belief and faith, but still it is good to get the most accurate conceptual translation of words as one can in order to understand their meaning when they were originally written.

http://biblehub.com/hebrew/7585.htm

Edited by Mr Walker

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docyabut2

You`ve got to understand the writers of the Bible, a book of many books.

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Liquid Gardens

We believe in Jesus and his message of LOVE ONE ANOTHER. What part of that message creates separation or confusion?

I guess it depends on your particular flavor of belief, which to be clear for you particularly I haven't seen anything counter to the idea that you don't take the message of love above to heart. However, many (most?) seem to also believe that if you are not a Christian then you are going to hell of some sort and deserve it; can you feel the love? Not to say that I don't find a lot of Christians who believe that to be perfectly fine people nor that all treat non-believers much differently which I agree is most important, but that message does create some separation and it's not really a fringe belief. I personally just find it weird at the very least, I don't have any qualms or confusion about saying that the consequence of non-belief being hell of some sort is inconsistent with the words 'benevolence', 'mercy', or 'justice' to me.

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Mr Walker

You guys? Fight back? This isn't a frickin war. We believe in Jesus and his message of LOVE ONE ANOTHER. What part of that message creates separation or confusion?

The part which actually requires a human being to give up their selfish materialistic desires in order to be able to understand how to love their own human spirit, and thus how to be able to love that of another. That generates an internal conflict, which then manifests in external anger, fear, and opposition.

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Mr Walker

I guess it depends on your particular flavor of belief, which to be clear for you particularly I haven't seen anything counter to the idea that you don't take the message of love above to heart. However, many (most?) seem to also believe that if you are not a Christian then you are going to hell of some sort and deserve it; can you feel the love? Not to say that I don't find a lot of Christians who believe that to be perfectly fine people nor that all treat non-believers much differently which I agree is most important, but that message does create some separation and it's not really a fringe belief. I personally just find it weird at the very least, I don't have any qualms or confusion about saying that the consequence of non-belief being hell of some sort is inconsistent with the words 'benevolence', 'mercy', or 'justice' to me.

If you (generalisation) smoke, there is a greater than 30% chance you will die as a direct consequence of smoking. If i know this and don't tell you it is so, and don't make some effort to help you stop, even perhaps if you don't want to stop, then how am i manifesting love to you? Allowing yourself to self harm is not a form of love. Putting your freedom to be uninformed or plain stupid if you are informed, is not a token of my love for you.

In biblical terms we learn that all actions and thoughts have consequences, and that we, as self aware beings, can choose our thoughts and actions, and are accountable for them They WILL all have natural consequences, either constructive or destructive, and we are intelligent enough not only to know this but to recognise what those consequences will be. Al laws, secular and religious are human laws and are puti n place to control human behaviour, and minimise the harm that so many humans cause to themselves, and to others, by acting on desire rather than need.

The laws formalise social rules, and apply direct physical consequences to breaking them. They thus encourage many people to more carefully conform to social rules, which evolved for public good, safety, and order but which were not mandated or enforced by law, only by social pressure. .

Edited by Mr Walker

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Hammerclaw

Under that supposition , we could substitute Marx, Castro or Guevara, for Jesus ..... religiously, the glorification is essential !

Yes. We could all be NPCs on some fantastical starship's holodeck a million years in the future, in which case all things are possible. :yes:
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Golden Duck

Of course not, are there millions of people claiming these fables and fairy tales are true in some way like there are for the Bible? Are there millions of people whose view and attitude towards other people are heavily influenced by Aesop and Grimm?

There are millions of people heavily influenced tradition and culture. Hell, even Dawkins has described himself as Secular Christian.

I've perhaps had one proselytiser knock on my door in the last year or two. I told them I wasn't interested - and they moved on.

<fe>

Oh the tyranny. I wish I was armed with true facts so I could have defended myself.

</fe>

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barbco196

If you (generalisation) smoke, there is a greater than 30% chance you will die as a direct consequence of smoking. If i know this and don't tell you it is so, and don't make some effort to help you stop, even perhaps if you don't want to stop, then how am i manifesting love to you? Allowing yourself to self harm is not a form of love. Putting your freedom to be uninformed or plain stupid if you are informed, is not a token of my love for you.

In biblical terms we learn that all actions and thoughts have consequences, and that we, as self aware beings, can choose our thoughts and actions, and are accountable for them They WILL all have natural consequences, either constructive or destructive, and we are intelligent enough not only to know this but to recognise what those consequences will be. Al laws, secular and religious are human laws and are puti n place to control human behaviour, and minimise the harm that so many humans cause to themselves, and to others, by acting on desire rather than need.

The laws formalise social rules, and apply direct physical consequences to breaking them. They thus encourage many people to more carefully conform to social rules, which evolved for public good, safety, and order but which were not mandated or enforced by law, only by social pressure. .

Just to be clear regarding your first paragraph: Are you saying that Christians are showing love to non-believers by proselytizing? In the same way a non-smoker tells a smoker that they may die from smoking?

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Rlyeh

What?

Jesus didn't once oppose slavery. He must've been aware of it, his father promoted it.
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alibongo

St James bible,1762, authorised versions, transcribed from genuine desert scripts, o be do be do, and the Lord said that in the 21st century we will still find nutters looking into these ancient scripts. for enlightenment.

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Habitat

Jesus didn't once oppose slavery. He must've been aware of it, his father promoted it.

Slavery is still being promoted. These days it is called "mortgage".

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Stubbly_Dooright

I wish people would under stand the Bible.

And I wish people wouldn't depend on material items for their spiritualistic path. You see, it can go both ways. If you are waiting for me to do this, don't hold your breath.
Jesus was real, a rebel and a comforter to his people against a establishment, in that no one was separated in love from mankind , but writers did glorified him.

I think it has been established here in these threads and in various forms, that everyone differs on whether he existed or not. If you have evidence or something, feel free to post it.

Now, I have a feeling, or some kind of consideration that he may have existed, but without all of the 'miracles' that is associated with him.

You guys? Fight back? This isn't a frickin war. We believe in Jesus and his message of LOVE ONE ANOTHER. What part of that message creates separation or confusion?

Believe it or not, not everyone, ( there are a good few, and I have met them ) has the same peaceful intentions that you do and have. I have been to quite a few Christian sites and other religious sites that talk about fighting a war and taking our country back by force. ( to what and what they thought it was, who knows ) And I also have known faithful Christians who get taken advantage of, because of their honest faith. But they are few, ( and makes me want to defend them from those that take advantage of them. )

The thing is, there are a quite a few, who have been violent and harassing that left scars, so I understand how some would feel 'defensive'.

Yes. We could all be NPCs on some fantastical starship's holodeck a million years in the future, in which case all things are possible. :yes:

I'm game!!
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Hammerclaw

I'm game!!

Pun intended? :tu:
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Space Commander Travis

There are millions of people heavily influenced tradition and culture. Hell, even Dawkins has described himself as Secular Christian.

I've perhaps had one proselytiser knock on my door in the last year or two. I told them I wasn't interested - and they moved on.

<fe>

Oh the tyranny. I wish I was armed with true facts so I could have defended myself.

</fe>

The only one's I've ever seen are the nice people from the Jehovah's Witnesses with their interesting leaflets. I'm building up a little collection of them.
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Rlyeh

Slavery is still being promoted. These days it is called "mortgage".

Next time they beat you.. tell someone who cares.

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