Was Scott Peterson innocent ?

[TashaMarie]

On 11/1/2020 at 9:16 PM, Bavarian Raven said:

Curious, what about the 20+ people who say they saw her (including neighbours who knew her well) after her husband left for the shop / fishing? 
(Again, not saying he did or didn't do it, but I find it hard that there would be that many false reports. Especially by people who knew her well).

I have always had an issue with the amount of people who believed they saw her morning.  Why weren't they called as witnesses?  I still think they need to look into the burglars more.

[Creepy girl]

9 hours ago, TashaMarie said:

I have always had an issue with the amount of people who believed they saw her morning.  Why weren't they called as witnesses?  I still think they need to look into the burglars more.

I am always skeptical of eyewitness accounts as many times they can be wrong.  At the same time, I feel they need to be well investigated and not ruled out so quickly.  Especially, if it is someone from the neighborhood and they are familiar with the victim.  In this case, I do not feel they were really taken into account since the police were fixated on Scott.  It also seems Mark Geragos did not bother to call them, as he felt it was not necessary.  Although, I can not be 100 percent sure of the reasoning behind that.  I would agree that they definitely need to look into the burglars more, but as I said before, they did not wish to because they felt they already had their man.  So many problems with this and leave unanswered questions.

[TashaMarie]

On 11/7/2020 at 2:26 PM, Creepy girl said:

I am always skeptical of eyewitness accounts as many times they can be wrong.  At the same time, I feel they need to be well investigated and not ruled out so quickly.  Especially, if it is someone from the neighborhood and they are familiar with the victim.  In this case, I do not feel they were really taken into account since the police were fixated on Scott.  It also seems Mark Geragos did not bother to call them, as he felt it was not necessary.  Although, I can not be 100 percent sure of the reasoning behind that.  I would agree that they definitely need to look into the burglars more, but as I said before, they did not wish to because they felt they already had their man.  So many problems with this and leave unanswered questions.

I agree with eye witnesses not being reliable as it has been proven time after time that they are not.  But as you said they were just dismissed without any real work being put into following them up.  This annoys me greatly because IF Scott is innocent the police have left the killer/s free to kill more innocent people.  I honestly feel there was not enough evidence to prove without reasonable doubt that he killed her, unless there was alot more revealed in court we are not aware of.

[Bavarian Raven]

Another point that I cannot get over is that I’ve read / heard that her child was born before being killed. :,( which would imply that she was “held captive” for a while. Can anyone back this up? (I’ve heard this on two crime podcasts recently). 

[Creepy girl]

2 hours ago, Bavarian Raven said:

Another point that I cannot get over is that I’ve read / heard that her child was born before being killed. :,( which would imply that she was “held captive” for a while. Can anyone back this up? (I’ve heard this on two crime podcasts recently). 

Yes, there has been different opinions on this about Conner's true age when they were discovered.  One doctor has him at one age while another at a possible later age.  I think it is really difficult to determine for sure based on the conditions in which they were discovered.  I don't think this is one that can be proven for sure on when the baby was actually born.  The theory is that it wasn't until after Lacy had passed though.  The question is more of when did Lacy actually die.  Was it on the day she went missing or a few days later? This would make a difference in the age of the baby as well when he passed.

[Bavarian Raven]

7 hours ago, Creepy girl said:

Yes, there has been different opinions on this about Conner's true age when they were discovered.  One doctor has him at one age while another at a possible later age.  I think it is really difficult to determine for sure based on the conditions in which they were discovered.  I don't think this is one that can be proven for sure on when the baby was actually born.  The theory is that it wasn't until after Lacy had passed though.  The question is more of when did Lacy actually die.  Was it on the day she went missing or a few days later? This would make a difference in the age of the baby as well when he passed.

Agreed. One *source* says there was wire and tape on the deceased child's neck - something that could clearly only have happened if the child was born before being thrown into the water. :'(

[+DieChecker]

In the years since... has there been murders that seemed similar? That the "Real Killer" might have committed?

 

[Bavarian Raven]

5 hours ago, DieChecker said:

In the years since... has there been murders that seemed similar? That the "Real Killer" might have committed?

 

Well around that time period (before and after) around eight very pregnant women were murdered and just a week before her murder, another pregnant woman was almost abducted by two men. While not proof, it is very suspicious imho. 

[docyabut2]

If it was burglars they would  kill her on the spot and leave her, not dumped her in a lake.  Eight very pregnant women were murdered ? were they all dumped into the lakes to?

[Creepy girl]

Not necessarily.  The burglars on this particular day had an agenda and was in a neighborhood.  I doubt that if they did get picked up for the robbery which they did, they  would not want any ties to the murder.  It is possible that she was abducted by them since she may have interrupted them and taken to another location and then killed.  If they simply left her in or around the house they robbed, then it would have definitely tied them to her murder  which they would not want.  There was at least one other woman before Lacy that was dismembered and pregnant found in the bay.

Edited November 13, 2020 by Creepy girl

[Creepy girl]

1 hour ago, docyabut2 said:

If it was burglars they would  kill her on the spot and leave her, not dumped her in a lake.  Eight very pregnant women were murdered ? were they all dumped into the lakes to?

Not necessarily.  The burglars on this particular day had an agenda and was in a neighborhood.  I doubt that if they did get picked up for the robbery which they did, they  would not want any ties to the murder.  It is possible that she was abducted by them since she may have interrupted them and taken to another location and then killed.  If they simply left her in or around the house they robbed, then it would have definitely tied them to her murder  which they would not want.  There was at least one other woman before Lacy that was dismembered and pregnant found in the bay.

 

I apologize, I meant to add the quote in the previous post

[Creepy girl]

9 hours ago, DieChecker said:

In the years since... has there been murders that seemed similar? That the "Real Killer" might have committed?

 

I need to research some more.  I haven't heard of any cases at least not since around the times of her murder.

[docyabut2]

On ‎11‎/‎11‎/‎2020 at 10:08 AM, Bavarian Raven said:

Another point that I cannot get over is that I’ve read / heard that her child was born before being killed. :,( which would imply that she was “held captive” for a while. Can anyone back this up? (I’ve heard this on two crime podcasts recently). 

Her head was separated from her body when she was found, why the baby was to.:(

[Random Element]

 

Has anyone else read this book? I found it on Apple Books but Amazon Books has it as well.

STONE COLD INNOCENT : The Scott Peterson Brief

 

About half way through there is a reference to the following anonymous tip which I've copied and pasted here. This is some pretty convincing stuff!

 

 

10 January, 2003
 

16:00 to 18:45          At some point prior to or on 10 January, 2003, a tip is received by the California Highway Patrol and then forwarded to the Modesto Police Department. This tip arrives via cell phone from an anonymous male caller with a Hispanic accent who reveals that a pregnant woman matching Laci Peterson’s description is (or was) being held captive on a rural property roughly four to five miles south of Interstate 205 near Tracy, California. According to the caller there are two white houses on this property, there is an old abandoned white pickup truck parked on the lawn in front of the second house, and directly behind this house there is a horse grain storage van. The caller alleges that the pregnant woman is being held there while suffering physical abuse at the hands of her captors.
 

The Modesto Police Department dispatches Officers Eric Beffa and John Locke to investigate this information and after driving to Tracy, California they spend about two hours searching for the property on their own before meeting with Officer Paul Mears of the San Joaquin County Sheriff’s Department around 18:00 at the Denny’s restaurant on N Tracy Blvd. After discussing the details provided in the tip, the officers travel south on Lammers Road after dark in search of any property that matches the description provided by the caller, but less than 45 minutes later Beffa and Locke are summoned back to Modesto to investigate a report of another missing person. This is the extent of their effort in the search for the property that was described by the anonymous caller.
 

Meanwhile, several other officers from the San Joaquin County Sheriff’s Department join Mears and together they spend some additional time searching the rural areas around Tracy, California looking for the property described in the tip. Unfortunately, they are unable to locate one that even remotely resembles the description provided by the anonymous caller.
 

However, Mears is familiar with a compound about a mile from the junction of Interstate 205 and Interstate 580 just southeast of the Altamont Speedway where a number of nefarious people are known to congregate. This group includes prison parolees and transients who are known to profess anti-law enforcement attitudes. The compound itself consists of a number of shanties, shacks, and old trailers.
 

Mears arranges for a helicopter equipped with heat sensors to overfly the compound in an effort to determine if there are any heat signatures radiating from the shacks and shanties on the property and the sensors indicate that there are. Unfortunately, Mears is advised by his superior, Sergeant Lamie, not to proceed into the compound (due to safety concerns) to speak with the parolees and transients there and no attempt is ever made to do so thereafter.
 

Nineteen months later Mears is tending to an auto collision on Interstate 580 just southeast of Exit 65 and from his vantage point on the highway he is able to observe the area where the compound was located. According to his later testimony at the trial of Scott Peterson, he confirms that most of the structures that were located at that compound on the night he arranged for the helicopter search appeared to have been torn down sometime after 10 January, 2003 and before 07 August, 2004 when he noticed their absence.
 

 

Now, pay very close attention…
 

During the limited three days that Mears and his fellow officers spend searching rural areas around Tracy, California, they inexplicably manage to overlook the one property just west of the San Joaquin County line that appears to perfectly match the description provided by the anonymous caller.
 

Roughly a mile and a half due south of the compound near the Altamont Speedway, and roughly the same distance due west of the giant wastewater reservoir at the Musco Family Olive Company, there is a remote rural property situated near the intersection of W Patterson Pass Rd and N Midway Rd within sight of the Altamont Pass Wind Farm Substation.
 

There are two white houses located on this property and behind the second house there is a large white storage container similar in size and appearance to that of a standard 45-foot-long horse grain trailer (often called a grain hopper van) without wheels. There is also an abandoned off-white pickup truck parked on the lawn in front of the second house.
 

Historical satellite imagery of this property spanning 1994 to 2020 reveals that the white storage container and the abandoned pickup truck were both present on this property prior to the day of Laci Peterson’s abduction and neither one has budged an inch in the eighteen years between that fateful day and today.
 

Meanwhile, the imagery also reveals that a pole barn gets constructed just east of the pickup truck after June, 2014, and the larger of the two white houses gets demolished sometime between March, 2017 and August, 2017.
 

Moreover, if there is any question that this white storage container (which is either a horse grain storage van as described by the anonymous caller, or just a standard 45-foot shipping container) is being used to store horse feed, then consider the fact that horses have been grazing on this property for years, and a red horse trailer winds up parked right beside the white storage container between June 2009 and June 2019 before being moved elsewhere on the property.
 

During the later trial of Scott Peterson, Officer Beffa is asked by Prosecutor Rick Distaso to describe the exact wording of the original tip provided to the California Highway Patrol by the anonymous caller and according to Beffa’s testimony it includes the following specific directions and information:
 

“Eastbound 205 at Tracy. Take the first exit, which is the first bridge, which is a county area, and turn right. Caller said this was not a populated area of town, but rather a county area. Caller does not know the name of the road. Go down four to five miles. You will see two white houses on left side of the road. In front of the second house is an old abandoned white pickup truck. Behind the house is a van, as he explained, where you can store feed for horses. They have a pregnant woman there. And he states he recognized her to be Laci. Caller lives two to three hours away from there. Wants to remain completely anonymous. Doesn't want the reward money. Just wants her to be found. Claims they are abusing and hurting her. Says he saw Laci's picture on the missing person’s poster. Just wants to save her.”

 

Now, consider this caller’s directions more closely…
 

The junction at which Interstate 580 becomes eastbound 205 at Tracy occurs right at the first bridge that passes over N Midway Rd and is located in a county area that is not considered a populated part of town. The first exit that exists at that bridge is the one where Interstate 580 branches to the south from Interstate 205. The very next right turn is at the W Patterson Pass Rd off-ramp, and less than a two-minute drive along that road is the rural property with the two white houses (one of them has since been demolished), the abandoned white pickup truck, and the grain storage container right there on the left side of the road just before the intersection.

And what a coincidence, the distance from that first bridge at the Interstate 205 junction, to the intersection at W Patterson Pass Rd and N Midway Rd is between four and five miles.
 

In other words, the information provided by this caller not only very closely describes the route from Interstate 205 to this rural property but also accurately describes the existence and positions of the two white buildings, the storage container, and the abandoned pickup truck parked on the lawn in front of the second house.
 

In order to examine historical satellite imagery of this area you will need to download Google Earth Pro and use the Historical Imagery Slider to view the various states of this property between 2002 and 2020. The exact geographic coordinates of the abandoned pickup truck are 37°42’48.21 N  121°33’28.80 W, while the storage container rests at 37°42’47.03 N  121°33’28.62 W

 

So, if this anonymous caller is telling the truth and if this is the rural property that is accurately described in that tip, then according to the information and directions provided by this caller, Laci Peterson was being held captive on that property sometime between Christmas Eve, 2002 and 10 January, 2003.

 

 

[+DieChecker]

It sounds very interesting. But by Jan 10 almost the entire nation knew she was missing.

The property I grew up on in southern Oregon, we had neighbors that we detested. They had heaps of trash, and skeletal cattle they didn't feed. Anyway, I could very easily, even today, provide landmarks leading directly to that property. 

The property in question above is populated with the homeless and criminal elements. It wouldn't be surprising if someone was thrown off the property and called in the tip as revenge. So the police deployed would turn over the whole property and arrest many of those who'd wronged him.

Just a theory though.

[Maureen_jacobs]

No

[Creepy girl]

On 11/17/2021 at 4:32 PM, Random Element said:

 

Has anyone else read this book? I found it on Apple Books but Amazon Books has it as well.

STONE COLD INNOCENT : The Scott Peterson Brief

 

About half way through there is a reference to the following anonymous tip which I've copied and pasted here. This is some pretty convincing stuff!

 

 

10 January, 2003
 

16:00 to 18:45          At some point prior to or on 10 January, 2003, a tip is received by the California Highway Patrol and then forwarded to the Modesto Police Department. This tip arrives via cell phone from an anonymous male caller with a Hispanic accent who reveals that a pregnant woman matching Laci Peterson’s description is (or was) being held captive on a rural property roughly four to five miles south of Interstate 205 near Tracy, California. According to the caller there are two white houses on this property, there is an old abandoned white pickup truck parked on the lawn in front of the second house, and directly behind this house there is a horse grain storage van. The caller alleges that the pregnant woman is being held there while suffering physical abuse at the hands of her captors.
 

The Modesto Police Department dispatches Officers Eric Beffa and John Locke to investigate this information and after driving to Tracy, California they spend about two hours searching for the property on their own before meeting with Officer Paul Mears of the San Joaquin County Sheriff’s Department around 18:00 at the Denny’s restaurant on N Tracy Blvd. After discussing the details provided in the tip, the officers travel south on Lammers Road after dark in search of any property that matches the description provided by the caller, but less than 45 minutes later Beffa and Locke are summoned back to Modesto to investigate a report of another missing person. This is the extent of their effort in the search for the property that was described by the anonymous caller.
 

Meanwhile, several other officers from the San Joaquin County Sheriff’s Department join Mears and together they spend some additional time searching the rural areas around Tracy, California looking for the property described in the tip. Unfortunately, they are unable to locate one that even remotely resembles the description provided by the anonymous caller.
 

However, Mears is familiar with a compound about a mile from the junction of Interstate 205 and Interstate 580 just southeast of the Altamont Speedway where a number of nefarious people are known to congregate. This group includes prison parolees and transients who are known to profess anti-law enforcement attitudes. The compound itself consists of a number of shanties, shacks, and old trailers.
 

Mears arranges for a helicopter equipped with heat sensors to overfly the compound in an effort to determine if there are any heat signatures radiating from the shacks and shanties on the property and the sensors indicate that there are. Unfortunately, Mears is advised by his superior, Sergeant Lamie, not to proceed into the compound (due to safety concerns) to speak with the parolees and transients there and no attempt is ever made to do so thereafter.
 

Nineteen months later Mears is tending to an auto collision on Interstate 580 just southeast of Exit 65 and from his vantage point on the highway he is able to observe the area where the compound was located. According to his later testimony at the trial of Scott Peterson, he confirms that most of the structures that were located at that compound on the night he arranged for the helicopter search appeared to have been torn down sometime after 10 January, 2003 and before 07 August, 2004 when he noticed their absence.
 

 

Now, pay very close attention…
 

During the limited three days that Mears and his fellow officers spend searching rural areas around Tracy, California, they inexplicably manage to overlook the one property just west of the San Joaquin County line that appears to perfectly match the description provided by the anonymous caller.
 

Roughly a mile and a half due south of the compound near the Altamont Speedway, and roughly the same distance due west of the giant wastewater reservoir at the Musco Family Olive Company, there is a remote rural property situated near the intersection of W Patterson Pass Rd and N Midway Rd within sight of the Altamont Pass Wind Farm Substation.
 

There are two white houses located on this property and behind the second house there is a large white storage container similar in size and appearance to that of a standard 45-foot-long horse grain trailer (often called a grain hopper van) without wheels. There is also an abandoned off-white pickup truck parked on the lawn in front of the second house.
 

Historical satellite imagery of this property spanning 1994 to 2020 reveals that the white storage container and the abandoned pickup truck were both present on this property prior to the day of Laci Peterson’s abduction and neither one has budged an inch in the eighteen years between that fateful day and today.
 

Meanwhile, the imagery also reveals that a pole barn gets constructed just east of the pickup truck after June, 2014, and the larger of the two white houses gets demolished sometime between March, 2017 and August, 2017.
 

Moreover, if there is any question that this white storage container (which is either a horse grain storage van as described by the anonymous caller, or just a standard 45-foot shipping container) is being used to store horse feed, then consider the fact that horses have been grazing on this property for years, and a red horse trailer winds up parked right beside the white storage container between June 2009 and June 2019 before being moved elsewhere on the property.
 

During the later trial of Scott Peterson, Officer Beffa is asked by Prosecutor Rick Distaso to describe the exact wording of the original tip provided to the California Highway Patrol by the anonymous caller and according to Beffa’s testimony it includes the following specific directions and information:
 

“Eastbound 205 at Tracy. Take the first exit, which is the first bridge, which is a county area, and turn right. Caller said this was not a populated area of town, but rather a county area. Caller does not know the name of the road. Go down four to five miles. You will see two white houses on left side of the road. In front of the second house is an old abandoned white pickup truck. Behind the house is a van, as he explained, where you can store feed for horses. They have a pregnant woman there. And he states he recognized her to be Laci. Caller lives two to three hours away from there. Wants to remain completely anonymous. Doesn't want the reward money. Just wants her to be found. Claims they are abusing and hurting her. Says he saw Laci's picture on the missing person’s poster. Just wants to save her.”

 

Now, consider this caller’s directions more closely…
 

The junction at which Interstate 580 becomes eastbound 205 at Tracy occurs right at the first bridge that passes over N Midway Rd and is located in a county area that is not considered a populated part of town. The first exit that exists at that bridge is the one where Interstate 580 branches to the south from Interstate 205. The very next right turn is at the W Patterson Pass Rd off-ramp, and less than a two-minute drive along that road is the rural property with the two white houses (one of them has since been demolished), the abandoned white pickup truck, and the grain storage container right there on the left side of the road just before the intersection.

And what a coincidence, the distance from that first bridge at the Interstate 205 junction, to the intersection at W Patterson Pass Rd and N Midway Rd is between four and five miles.
 

In other words, the information provided by this caller not only very closely describes the route from Interstate 205 to this rural property but also accurately describes the existence and positions of the two white buildings, the storage container, and the abandoned pickup truck parked on the lawn in front of the second house.
 

In order to examine historical satellite imagery of this area you will need to download Google Earth Pro and use the Historical Imagery Slider to view the various states of this property between 2002 and 2020. The exact geographic coordinates of the abandoned pickup truck are 37°42’48.21 N  121°33’28.80 W, while the storage container rests at 37°42’47.03 N  121°33’28.62 W

 

So, if this anonymous caller is telling the truth and if this is the rural property that is accurately described in that tip, then according to the information and directions provided by this caller, Laci Peterson was being held captive on that property sometime between Christmas Eve, 2002 and 10 January, 2003.

 

 

This is interesting.  Of course we won't likely know if it is a valid tip or not since the police really never pursued leads other than ones concerning Scott.  The sad part is that this investigation was lacking so much from the beginning that anything could have happened without being properly investigated.

[the13bats]

Thing is if scott didnt do this crime he did get a raw deal but the raw deal was a direct reflection of his actions,

Since scott made the choices that caused his raw deal my sympathies do not run deep for him

[+Hammerclaw]

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and looks like a duck and it takes a tortuous amount of convoluted logic and what-if scenarios to convince yourself it really isn't a duck, it probably is a duck.

[PrissyGal2]

IMO, once Ms. Amber Frye entered the picture, LE gave up looking for Laci or following any leads that might have led in a different direction. They've got the perfect motive and they have all the phone calls between them, etc., etc.  However... I can't quite dismiss the fact that she was in the SF Bay. Why would these people have gone that far to dump her body? And why would they want an 8-months pregnant woman? Doesn't make sense. 

[+Hammerclaw]

 

[Bavarian Raven]

On 1/14/2022 at 7:36 AM, Hammerclaw said:

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and looks like a duck and it takes a tortuous amount of convoluted logic and what-if scenarios to convince yourself it really isn't a duck, it probably is a duck.

But when you're only looking at one duck, every duck looks the same. Honestly, this case needs to be revisited and reinvestigated by an outside source with no ties to the area. Heck bring in the FBI or the like. Just too many unanswered questions, and too much tunnel focusing IMHO.

[+Hammerclaw]

2 hours ago, Bavarian Raven said:

But when you're only looking at one duck, every duck looks the same. Honestly, this case needs to be revisited and reinvestigated by an outside source with no ties to the area. Heck bring in the FBI or the like. Just too many unanswered questions, and too much tunnel focusing IMHO.

In my opinion, that cold fish is as guilty as sin. 'Nuff Said.

[Bavarian Raven]

Just now, Hammerclaw said:

In my opinion, that cold fish is as guilty as sin. 'Nuff Said.

Maybe he truly is. Maybe he isn’t. But either way, the case / investigation left many questions unanswered. 

[+Hammerclaw]

14 minutes ago, Bavarian Raven said:

Maybe he truly is. Maybe he isn’t. But either way, the case / investigation left many questions unanswered. 

Only to those who refuse to accept the determination of the original investigation. I don't and that's where you and I part company. As neither one us will budged from our position, this conversation is over.

Edited January 16, 2022 by Hammerclaw