Is a lack of faith disturbing?

[Aftermath]

Xeno, fair enough - I'm not one to persuade others to something they disagree with. I was merely answering the questions you posed to the forum as a Christian would answer.

If something isn't empty, why want to fill it?

Edited April 14, 2016 by Aftermath

[XenoFish]

If something isn't empty, why want to fill it?

Because we are told it's empty. The glass is not half empty or half full, it's completely full. Because two different things are in it.

[+Sherapy]

"Lack" of faith is only disturbing to other people. It is not a problem for the person who has freed him/herself from the straight-jacket of religious thinking.

Doug

Exactly!

[tcgram]

This is based on a comment I made in a different thread and it's a curiosity to me. Why is the lack of faith in a god or religion perceived as such a sin? It's it some type of bias? A judgmental thing? I would like to know why some religious individuals want to pity or even insult those who do not believe. Thoughts on this?

Another side question is: Would you consider praying as a sign of a weak faith. From memory god knows your needs and will provide for those who have faith. So in my mind praying is showing a doubt in god. Thoughts on this?

I missed the question on prayer. I don't consider praying as a sign of weak faith. For myself personally, praying is my way of communication. Just as I come home from a long day at work and tell my hubby all about my day, it is a source of comfort to just be able to talk and vent. Prayer is my way of doing that.

Edited April 14, 2016 by tcgram

[barbco196]

For me, your explanation doesn't sound like knowing, it sounds more like wishful thinking, testing the waters; in other words, doubt.

I am not suggesting there is anything wrong with the place you are at, it sounds as if you are at a place of questioning, getting a feel for this path.

Would this be fair? If not, please correct me.

I am very new and still learning, so you would be right in saying I am questioning. I lived the first 40+ yrs of my life without God, so to jump in with both feet is not something I can do.

[barbco196]

Why is it that despite using a completely different belief structure that prayers sometimes get answered?

Why do we even need any of those things from God in the first place? Didn't he supposedly put a bounty on our head from birth? All because he screwed up.

A lot of other gods did the same thing for me. Though I never fully believed in them they worked just as well and sometimes better.

Ah, those prayers are answered because YOU are divine

[markdohle]

This is based on a comment I made in a different thread and it's a curiosity to me. Why is the lack of faith in a god or religion perceived as such a sin? It's it some type of bias? A judgmental thing? I would like to know why some religious individuals want to pity or even insult those who do not believe. Thoughts on this?

Another side question is: Would you consider praying as a sign of a weak faith. From memory god knows your needs and will provide for those who have faith. So in my mind praying is showing a doubt in god. Thoughts on this?

I guess the same reason some atheist need to insult believers, it is a human thing.....not an attractive one, but there none the less.

In the Christian faith we are called to a deep union with a loving God, so no, prayer is not a sign of weakness. The Our Father covers this I believe....sort of a prototype on prayer.

Peace

Mark

[XenoFish]

Yet when it come to such a belief in god how are you certain that you are right? Especially without any sort of proof.

it is a source of comfort to just be able to talk and vent. Prayer is my way of doing that.

I wish I could understand this. I really do. Yet I can not grasp how this would work. Just talking to something that might/might not even exist. Sure I've done this with my occult practices but it always felt silly and a tad childish. Maybe I've become too jaded?

Edited April 14, 2016 by XenoFish

[+Sherapy]

I am very new and still learning, so you would be right in saying I am questioning. I lived the first 40+ yrs of my life without God, so to jump in with both feet is not something I can do.

I actually commend you for questioning!

My ex hubby was the same and while he is "catholic" he never lost his skepticism and actually found a way to incorporate it into his path. I have to tell you he is the new face of Christianity and is part of a church that encourages him to modernize.

He blows me away in his wisdoms, he did go through an intense period of questioning and discarded a lot of the Rhetoric as he calls it.

You would actually enjoy talking with him, I think.

Edited April 14, 2016 by Sherapy

[+Hammerclaw]

Matthew 7:7-8:

7 "Ask, and it will be given you. Seek, and you will find. Knock, and it will be opened for you. 8 For everyone who asks receives. He who seeks finds. To him who knocks it will be opened.

It's from the Sermon on the Mount. I take this meaning from it:

If you don't ask questions you will never have answers.

If you do not look for truth, you may never find it.

If you do not knock on the door of opportunity, it may never open to you.

Edited April 14, 2016 by Hammerclaw

[barbco196]

Yet when it come to such a belief in god how are you certain that you are right? Especially without any sort of proof.

I wish I could understand this. I really do. Yet I can not grasp how this would work. Just talking to something that might/might not even exist. Sure I've done this with my occult practices but it always felt silly and a tad childish. Maybe I've become too jaded?

Your reply speaks volumes. I think many people feel the same. All the more reason God wants us to get over that hurdle and come boldly before him.

[barbco196]

Sorry but the whole Jesus myth doesn't set well with my. I see it as a form of idolatry. Love and mercy are purely human and also nothing more than chemical reactions in the brain.

Anything I could write down as a metaphysical experience can be summed up to both confirmation bias and self fulfilling actions. The core of chaos magick state that belief is a tool. One used to engineer one's experience of reality. God is nothing more than a tulpa, a figment of the imagination that someone interacts with on a consistent bases. This subconscious entity shadows our conscious selves. Which self induces the fear of god and the joy of god. Nothing more than a thought-form.

I mean it's nice to have a mental chat with Saint Germain whenever you'd like or dream of the frozen pit of hell where the fallen one is held in burning ice. All self induced. If not I'm an alpha level occultist.

Perhaps it was never empty to begin with?

A tulpa does not fit my definition of God.

[XenoFish]

All the more reason God wants us to get over that hurdle and come boldly before him.

This is my problem. It's god or the very idea of god. We are but insect scurrying on the face of this planet. Why would anything care about such a finite species? We'll all be dead and forgotten one day.

A tulpa does not fit my definition of God.

http://www.tulpa.info/what-is-a-tulpa/

[barbco196]

I actually commend you for questioning!

My ex hubby was the same and while he is "catholic" he never lost his skepticism and actually found a way to incorporate it into his path. I have to tell you he is the new face of Christianity and is part of a church that encourages him to modernize.

He blows me away in his wisdoms, he did go through an intense period of questioning and discarded a lot of the Rhetoric as he calls it.

You would actually enjoy talking with him, I think.

Sounds like you're a lucky woman. I enjoy talking to people of all faiths/religions. Everyone just KNOWS they're right. I never stake that claim. I think there is a missing piece to this puzzle we call life. I hope I'm around long enough to find it.

[barbco196]

This is my problem. It's god or the very idea of god. We are but insect scurrying on the face of this planet. Why would anything care about such a finite species? We'll all be dead and forgotten one day.

http://www.tulpa.info/what-is-a-tulpa/

A Tulpa is a conjured being. The HUMAN conjures it. God was never 'conjured' by me. God is not separate from me. God is not another 'being'.

[barbco196]

This is my problem. It's god or the very idea of god. We are but insect scurrying on the face of this planet. Why would anything care about such a finite species? We'll all be dead and forgotten one day.

http://www.tulpa.info/what-is-a-tulpa/

Oh no! I rarely say this but you're wrong. There's been 100 billion humans created and there will only one of you. I'd say we're pretty special.

[XenoFish]

A Tulpa is a conjured being. The HUMAN conjures it. God was never 'conjured' by me. God is not separate from me. God is not another 'being'.

How can you prove that? How can you be 100% certain that it isn't a manifestation of a subconscious desire. Like unintentionally created servitor, one made to fill a need.

I can hope, I can pray, wish, and beg. Knowing that 'god' would hear my prayers and this might make me feel all warm inside and confident, but I do not know for certain on any level that god is real and hearing me.

[XenoFish]

Oh no! I rarely say this but you're wrong. There's been 100 billion humans created and there will only one of you. I'd say we're pretty special.

Not really no one is a special snowflake. The way I see it nothing matters. I often float between nihilism and existentialism.

Edited April 14, 2016 by XenoFish

[+Sherapy]

Oh no! I rarely say this but you're wrong. There's been 100 billion humans created and there will only one of you. I'd say we're pretty special.

I think I'd agree we are unique, but special, I am not convinced of that.

What to do you mean by special?

[+Noteverythingisaconspiracy]

I think I'd agree we are unique, but special, I am not convinced of that.

What to do you mean by special?

Made me think of this classic scene:

[+Sherapy]

It hurts my heart when I read your testimony, questions, comments, and others like minded, that profess a disliking toward Christians because of the way they have treated you. My brother, any Christian who hurts in word or deed is not a true, authentic Christian. The people who are described by you and others are not true, authentic Christians… they believe they are, but by scripture (i.e., God’s word) they are not.

We can turn to 1 John to lay the foundation of what an authentic Christian looks like. The true Christian is one who abides in God, lives in the light, doesn’t lust over this world, confesses sin, and loves (among other things). Coming from this place, i.e., 1 John, is where I answer your questions.

Before we go throwing the “sin” word around, let’s establish a clear definition of what a sin actually is. A sin is: action against God’s law or rebellion against God (http://www.gotquesti...nition-sin.html).

A lack of faith in God is a sin.

Well, what is faith in the context of Christianity? What faith is not is a belief despite evidence to the contrary, rather faith is a complete trust and confidence in God (http://www.gotquesti...k-of-faith.html). A majority of Christians have no concept of this and in the end get it wrong, frustrate themselves, and leave others with a bad experience. When we don’t place our trust and confidence in God we tend to place it in other things (e.g., money, ourselves) and this goes against God’s law (i.e., sin). In addition, typically we don’t like God’s ways, God’s path for us, God’s agenda, so instead of having faith in God we rebel and do it our own way (i.e., our way is better) and therefore sin. Our actions when we don’t trust in God lead us to sinful ways.

If you meant that to be a lack of faith in God as you don’t believe in God, it is breaking God’s law in Matthew 22:36-38 and action against God’s law is a sin:

““Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment.”

Since you do not believe in God, you cannot love God.

A lack of religion is a sin.

This is not true. Religion is man-made and therefore a lack of it would not be a sin. I would actually argue that transforming Christianity into a religion is a sin. God hates religion (http://www.christiny...odhatesrel.html), something I’ve posted here many times before.

It's it some type of bias? A judgmental thing? I would like to know why some religious individuals want to pity or even insult those who do not believe.

Honestly, they are not being authentic Christians, based in 1 John, if they are behaving this way. I would argue that if they are behaving this way, they are not Christian at all, they only think they are. 1 John 5-10… basically, if we don’t abide in God (i.e., in the light) we walk in darkness and have no fellowship with God. If one is doing this (i.e., judgmental, insult), they do not abide in God and do not have fellowship with God. So to answer you, they do this because they are not true, authentic Christians… plus we are all sinners (some Christians can be the worst offenders). Their actions do not align with Matthew 22:39, and therefore they are sinning.

Would you consider praying as a sign of a weak faith.

Absolutely not! It’s true, God knows what’s in my heart, God knows all – and you ask a great question – why pray?

Well, first and foremost, God instructed us to pray. The most basic reason to pray, God told us to: Matthew 26:41, Luke 18:1, and Ephesians 8:18. There are many more scriptures that command us to pray. But if you need another reason, we pray to have a relationship with our Father in Heaven. Prayer provides us quiet time with God, our Father, so we can experience fellowship, development, confession, and dependency; it’s also very cathartic. You are 100% correct, God does know my needs and will provide, however many times I need comfort so I talk to Him, I need wisdom so I listen to Him. God wants us to pray, not to get action done, but to establish a relationship with Him. To get closer to Him, through prayer, is to abide in Him, to walk His path, and to then sin less, rebel less, etc. Your life changes when you accept and feel God’s love, grace, and mercy… not just on Day 1 but everyday thereafter. Prayer is time for me to get closer to God in a relationship where I can feel that… listen to Him… confess my sin… and receive His grace. I pray consistently to keep myself on the right path. I pray to compose myself, so I can hear His words over anything else, and type them out.

Is constant and consistent communication between family members a sign of dysfunction or weak bonds? No. Likewise, constant and consistent communication with God, prayer, provides for strong bonds, functional behavior, and understanding.

FYI, God answers every prayer… sometimes it’s a “no”. God doesn’t answer every prayer immediately when you want… sometimes the answer to a prayer is patience.

Dependency?

[barbco196]

How can you prove that? How can you be 100% certain that it isn't a manifestation of a subconscious desire. Like unintentionally created servitor, one made to fill a need.

I can hope, I can pray, wish, and beg. Knowing that 'god' would hear my prayers and this might make me feel all warm inside and confident, but I do not know for certain on any level that god is real and hearing me.

We already know proof will never exist. Proof from one person to another, anyways. I can be 100% certain I didn't conjure God. I was a devout atheist!

[barbco196]

I think I'd agree we are unique, but special, I am not convinced of that.

What to do you mean by special?

Special in the eye of God. His most precious creation.

[XenoFish]

Sometimes I wonder why I even worry about such things. Faith? God? Really what is the point? We all live finite lives and fill those moments with something that gives us comfort and purpose. Mainly because nothing matters in the long run. We eat, sleep, poop, and breed. Just to keep our species alive. We think things are important because we give them that meaning. Wow am I really a nihilist at heart?

We already know proof will never exist. Proof from one person to another, anyways. I can be 100% certain I didn't conjure God. I was a devout atheist!

Nothing is ever certain. Nothing at all. You do not know for certain that you did or didn't manufacture a god to experience. You have Schrodinger's God. Is it real or not real? Does it exist or not exist? Is it existence a paradox?

Special in the eye of God. His most precious creation.

God needs glasses.

[Mr Walker]

This is based on a comment I made in a different thread and it's a curiosity to me. Why is the lack of faith in a god or religion perceived as such a sin? It's it some type of bias? A judgmental thing? I would like to know why some religious individuals want to pity or even insult those who do not believe. Thoughts on this?

Another side question is: Would you consider praying as a sign of a weak faith. From memory god knows your needs and will provide for those who have faith. So in my mind praying is showing a doubt in god. Thoughts on this?

Cultural anthropology explains this in detail, but there are two basic threads. One, religion/belief binds societies together and may indeed have been the one factor which enabled diverse individuals to cooperate and come together in larger settlements, not connected by family or clan. Being 'same' means less threat and more safety; being different or unknown creates a perception of danger or threat.

Secondly, human minds recognise that another human mind which believes in a judgemental god watching their actions and behaviours is more trustworthy than minds which have no such inner compass

Of course morality is independent of religion and also religious people can be dishonest ,but it is a trait of humanity to BELIEVE that believers are more honest than non believers and this is so, even today.

In a different sense, of course one who believes is tempted to feel sorry for one who does not, or cannot, because they are missing out on so much of what it means to be human and so many of the practical benefits of belief. If i knew how you could always be happy and chose not to tell you how to achieve the same goal I'd be a pretty poor human being. But after that, imo, it's up to you what you do with the knowledge. Insults never help and the bible says that one of the most counter-productive things a christian can do is insult someone else.

you seem to misunderstand what sin is. Sin is simply and literally "falling short of the mark" (the mark being perfection) All humans are imperfect and thus all sin. But acknowledging sin gives one a target to aim for and practising to shoot straighter, slowly makes one hit closer to the mark . The concept of sin is thus one of acknowledging our abilty always to improve and to do better.

How people communicate with their god concept or indeed with god itself, is up to them . I don't pray, just talk with god, but then i've never seen or thought of prayer as asking god for something. It is more asking him what I can do for him I will pray for believers who ask me to do so, and i have found such prayer to be answered, but what the connection between prayer and response is, I don't know .

god gives a lot of excellent advice and can add physical and emotional strength to get things done or to cope with tragedy etc.

My attitude is that my life, my talents my abilities are all free gifts from the cosmic consciousness. It expects me to do the most i can with every single one of those abilities and skills but i am free to do as i please. . In return (sort of like karma, or more simply a logical reponse of natural consequence )my life is strengthened, empowered fulfilled etc.

For example as a child i built up my body strength and agility etc This enabled me to do more things, live more healthily and help others more. it also enabled me to do physical work for which i was paid an adult wage.

So gods expectations and the realities of the universe tend to coincide. Believe and act in certain ways and your life will evolve in one way. Believe and act in a different way and your life, over the years, will take an entirely different course. With the exception of occurrences beyond our control, and these are very rare in my environment, we SHAPE our future, by our actions in the present.

Edited April 15, 2016 by Mr Walker