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Stubbly_Dooright

Forgiveness

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Stubbly_Dooright

You know, I often wonder, when we forgive or not, is it because we expect something from the other? Is there some dependence or entitlement one who has been hurt, expect from the ones that hurt? I reflect on this, well on a trip home just from an appointment, because of my feelings of desiring independence and doing things for my own and feeling at peace with that. My trip was to a new specialist, because the previous one retired, and I had to go to a new place where I had no clue where it was. With my way of using Google street map and such days ahead of my visit, and then getting there no problems, allowed for a good visit. On the trip home, with it being a calm day, (ok, it was wet and drizzling, but I like that) and driving through some farm country, with Colin Hay on my cd player, I felt at peace and contented. :D  A feeling of accomplishment. No feelings of expecting anyone to do anything for me. 

Which then went into my thoughts about this thread, ( it was a bit of a long trip to think. ;) ) and that even though I don't usual feel resentment from things done to me, because I handle the ramifications and the corrections on my own. ( if it's serious, it's good to see a professional (( my nod to Sheri)), But, to forgive just like that, towards someone, doesn't seem to fit well to me. In fact, still feeling I don't forgive them, I'm still feeling complete, because to me, it's honest. I think one can heal, feel peace, without forgiving, because you're still taking care of yourself, not depending on the other. :yes: 

So, I wonder, if that's the difference, forgiving without thinking expect something from the other. *shrugs* 

 

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Stubbly_Dooright
2 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Stubbly,

Yes it is because they are family and even if I cannot have a productive relationship with them I still have some fond memories and lessons with them. You know they saying about loving someone from a distance if you can't stand loving them close.:lol:

jmccr8 

You know, I think I have heard that. 

Yeah, that's what I wonder with myself and when it comes to family matters. Though, I hadn't really had any within my family, but I feel I would be in the same place as you would be. :yes:  

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LightAngel

Okay, I will try to explain this on an even deeper level without having to write a whole book :)

In my experience, when dealing with difficult thoughts of any kind, there is no permanent solution. What I mean by that is that even if you've dealt with something once, that doesn't mean that the "issue" won't pop up again. But if you've dealt with it once, in a sense that you've handled those thoughts in a healthy way, then every next time the issue pops up - you will be able to deal with it more easily. It's as if the first time you deal with something, you generate a certain recipe or template if you will, for dealing with that issue so every next time it comes up - hey, you already know how to deal with it. And as time goes by, with every subsequent occurrence of that issue it becomes easier and easier until you don't even need to think about it - it becomes your second nature. 

So, that is how we can let things go, but I think it's important to remember that it's not a one-time thing - it’s a learning process that takes time and effort. 

That is why I believe that forgiveness has a lot to do with doing it for our own sake which does not mean that this in any way alleviates the gravity of the things that have been done wrong to us nor does it clear our wrong-doers of their error. By having someone do wrong to us - we victimize ourselves even further if we do not forgive for our own benefit.

If we build a healthy stance to even those who wronged us - we will then also be more apt at dealing with people who do us wrong in the future.

So, this is the solution that works for me, but we are all different and perhaps for you - something else might work better.

The point is to find the solution that works for you ;)

 

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Truthseeker007
8 hours ago, LightAngel said:

Okay, I will try to explain this on an even deeper level without having to write a whole book :)

In my experience, when dealing with difficult thoughts of any kind, there is no permanent solution. What I mean by that is that even if you've dealt with something once, that doesn't mean that the "issue" won't pop up again. But if you've dealt with it once, in a sense that you've handled those thoughts in a healthy way, then every next time the issue pops up - you will be able to deal with it more easily. It's as if the first time you deal with something, you generate a certain recipe or template if you will, for dealing with that issue so every next time it comes up - hey, you already know how to deal with it. And as time goes by, with every subsequent occurrence of that issue it becomes easier and easier until you don't even need to think about it - it becomes your second nature. 

So, that is how we can let things go, but I think it's important to remember that it's not a one-time thing - it’s a learning process that takes time and effort. 

That is why I believe that forgiveness has a lot to do with doing it for our own sake which does not mean that this in any way alleviates the gravity of the things that have been done wrong to us nor does it clear our wrong-doers of their error. By having someone do wrong to us - we victimize ourselves even further if we do not forgive for our own benefit.

If we build a healthy stance to even those who wronged us - we will then also be more apt at dealing with people who do us wrong in the future.

So, this is the solution that works for me, but we are all different and perhaps for you - something else might work better.

The point is to find the solution that works for you ;)

 

Yes I agree and it is not good to stay angry and hold on to resentment of another individual for what they did. If you can forgive them and let go of whatever they did you won't hold on to those negative thoughts. I have even heard that holding on to this negative energy of someone can even lead the body to get sick such as developing some kind of cancer and other sicknesses. Although sometimes it can be very hard to forgive an entity I do think you are way better off in just letting it go and move on. You may never forget what they did and you may not even want to come in contact with that person again but if you can just let it go and let it be you can turn a negative into a positive.

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Sherapy
15 hours ago, LightAngel said:

Okay, I will try to explain this on an even deeper level without having to write a whole book :)

In my experience, when dealing with difficult thoughts of any kind, there is no permanent solution. What I mean by that is that even if you've dealt with something once, that doesn't mean that the "issue" won't pop up again. But if you've dealt with it once, in a sense that you've handled those thoughts in a healthy way, then every next time the issue pops up - you will be able to deal with it more easily. It's as if the first time you deal with something, you generate a certain recipe or template if you will, for dealing with that issue so every next time it comes up - hey, you already know how to deal with it. And as time goes by, with every subsequent occurrence of that issue it becomes easier and easier until you don't even need to think about it - it becomes your second nature. 

So, that is how we can let things go, but I think it's important to remember that it's not a one-time thing - it’s a learning process that takes time and effort. 

That is why I believe that forgiveness has a lot to do with doing it for our own sake which does not mean that this in any way alleviates the gravity of the things that have been done wrong to us nor does it clear our wrong-doers of their error. By having someone do wrong to us - we victimize ourselves even further if we do not forgive for our own benefit.

If we build a healthy stance to even those who wronged us - we will then also be more apt at dealing with people who do us wrong in the future.

So, this is the solution that works for me, but we are all different and perhaps for you - something else might work better.

The point is to find the solution that works for you ;)

 

For me: I get upset because I am taking things personal, and the fact is it is personal when others hurt me. There are those that will harm with no regards for another for all kinds of reasons. 

Why do I need to forgive myself specifically for someone else’s BS? Or why do I “need” to see them in a better light, for what purpose? 

Honestly, once healing has taken place one has  arrived at a better place, often this will not involve the offender, or should it. 

I think the reason I would want to evaluate or go over a transgression is so that I see how I played a part and work at changing that, so it doesn’t happen to me again. 

I don’t “need” to include the offending party at all.

Unless by agreement we had decided to move forward. I have forgiven one person in my life, but the person was remorseful  and did their part to their dieng day to correct the issue. 

You touched on the aspect of healing that is called rumination, one deals with the emotions as they come up, this takes time, it is a long process, eventually one moves on naturally, this is a good point, IMO. It is used in Cognitive Behavioral Therapy as a way to work at letting go. 

If I was to define forgiveness, I would say it is the time and space one allows themselves to heal, that it is compassion directed at the self and it takes what it takes, the only need to comes as a result of the wisdom one gleans from the process. And, that there is no one size fits all, it is case by case. 

 

 

Edited by Sherapy
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Hammerclaw

Here in the Real World

Cowboys don't cry, and heroes don't die
Good always wins, again and again
And love is a sweet dream that always comes true
Oh, if life were like the movies, I'd never be blue

But here in the real world
It's not that easy at all
'Cause when hearts get broken
It's real tears that fall
And darlin' it's sad but true
But the one thing I've learned from you
Is how the boy don't always get the girl
Here in the real world

I gave you my love, but that wasn't enough
To hold your heart, when times got rough
And tonight on that silver screen
It'll end like it should
Two lovers will make it through
Like I hoped we would

But here in the real world
It's not that easy at all
'Cause when hearts get broken
It's real tears that fall
And darlin' it's sad but true
But the one thing I've learned from you
Is how the boy don't always get the girl
Here in the real world

No, the boy don't always get the girl
Here in the real world

Songwriters: MARK IRWIN, ALAN JACKSON
There is a true story behind this song. It is the summation of a genuine act of contrition and forgiveness and one of the most beautiful of which I know.
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Stubbly_Dooright
21 hours ago, LightAngel said:

Okay, I will try to explain this on an even deeper level without having to write a whole book :)

In my experience, when dealing with difficult thoughts of any kind, there is no permanent solution. What I mean by that is that even if you've dealt with something once, that doesn't mean that the "issue" won't pop up again. But if you've dealt with it once, in a sense that you've handled those thoughts in a healthy way, then every next time the issue pops up - you will be able to deal with it more easily. It's as if the first time you deal with something, you generate a certain recipe or template if you will, for dealing with that issue so every next time it comes up - hey, you already know how to deal with it. And as time goes by, with every subsequent occurrence of that issue it becomes easier and easier until you don't even need to think about it - it becomes your second nature. 

So, that is how we can let things go, but I think it's important to remember that it's not a one-time thing - it’s a learning process that takes time and effort. 

Wow, to me, that seems so incredibly similar to how I see it and practice it. This seems how I see it as well. Thank you. And part of it is closer to how certain 'negative' thoughts and such pop up, (like how you see it), I work through them in my mind, so like you said, when it actually occurs, and more sure of more positive outcomes and thoughts. I also feel, to let it out, (bleed out the bad) in what I work through in my head, helps me in other ways. I think you did a wonderful job explaining this here. 

21 hours ago, LightAngel said:

That is why I believe that forgiveness has a lot to do with doing it for our own sake which does not mean that this in any way alleviates the gravity of the things that have been done wrong to us nor does it clear our wrong-doers of their error. By having someone do wrong to us - we victimize ourselves even further if we do not forgive for our own benefit.

Interesting way of putting it. Victimize ourselves even further, if we don't forgive. When I think about it right now, (and I am right now :D  :yes: ) I wonder, is it really keeping up from victimizing ourselves? Or is it delaying the truth of who the other is to us? 

Don't get me wrong, this is a new way of looking at it, and I think this is an awesome contribution here!!! :tu:  Considering it as not victimizing ourselves. I think that might be a good thing to look at, in our healing. 

Though, I feel, and this is just me, and me only, but I think I don't want to just 'forgive' to further away victimizing myself, because I don't think I see it that way, (Well, half of me, because I am intrigued with your thoughts.) The other half is, well, the time of being victimized is still there. Forgiving them, is just not being truthful and plus, I see it as lying to myself. But that is me and my two cents. 

Quote

If we build a healthy stance to even those who wronged us - we will then also be more apt at dealing with people who do us wrong in the future.

So, this is the solution that works for me, but we are all different and perhaps for you - something else might work better.

The point is to find the solution that works for you ;)

Oh yes, exactly. And I hope the varying contributions here, like yours, is a great message, this is not a one size fits all. 

Thank you. :) 

 

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Stubbly_Dooright
12 hours ago, Truthseeker007 said:

Yes I agree and it is not good to stay angry and hold on to resentment of another individual for what they did. If you can forgive them and let go of whatever they did you won't hold on to those negative thoughts. I have even heard that holding on to this negative energy of someone can even lead the body to get sick such as developing some kind of cancer and other sicknesses. Although sometimes it can be very hard to forgive an entity I do think you are way better off in just letting it go and move on. You may never forget what they did and you may not even want to come in contact with that person again but if you can just let it go and let it be you can turn a negative into a positive.

So many seem to be posting this. It is very interesting to read this, and part of me can understand why. 

But, a part of me thinks that not forgiving is not the same as not letting go or having negative thoughts all the time. It's just knowing what you feel about that person. To me, it's an honest affirmation of how you see someone. 

 

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Sherapy
54 minutes ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

So many seem to be posting this. It is very interesting to read this, and part of me can understand why. 

But, a part of me thinks that not forgiving is not the same as not letting go or having negative thoughts all the time. It's just knowing what you feel about that person. To me, it's an honest affirmation of how you see someone. 

 

For me, it is a lot of pressure to have to like everyone. I honestly don’t like everyone and I don’t forgive everyone and it has not affected my life at all. 

My only caveat is that I don’t allow a negative experience make me so bitter that I I lose my passion for life and the people in it. 

Yet, this has never required forgiving an ******* in my life. 

I get that in my life I am gonna meet some real creeps, get blindsided etc. etc. it happens and when it does I am going to get p***ed, and set boundaries, or be sad, or be shocked or appalled, etc. then I am gonna focus on what is best for me, and eventually make some changes, get wiser, get smarter, cut ties, close the door on any further dealings and eventually move on. 

Edited by Sherapy
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Stubbly_Dooright
10 hours ago, Sherapy said:

For me: I get upset because I am taking things personal, and the fact is it is personal when others hurt me. There are those that will harm with no regards for another for all kinds of reasons. 

Why do I need to forgive myself specifically for someone else’s BS? Or why do I “need” to see them in a better light, for what purpose? 

Honestly, once healing has taken place one has  arrived at a better place, often this will not involve the offender, or should it. 

I think the reason I would want to evaluate or go over a transgression is so that I see how I played a part and work at changing that, so it doesn’t happen to me again. 

I don’t “need” to include the offending party at all.

Unless by agreement we had decided to move forward. I have forgiven one person in my life, but the person was remorseful  and did their part to their dieng day to correct the issue. 

You touched on the aspect of healing that is called rumination, one deals with the emotions as they come up, this takes time, it is a long process, eventually one moves on naturally, this is a good point, IMO. It is used in Cognitive Behavioral Therapy as a way to work at letting go. 

If I was to define forgiveness, I would say it is the time and space one allows themselves to heal, that it is compassion directed at the self and it takes what it takes, the only need to comes as a result of the wisdom one gleans from the process. And, that there is no one size fits all, it is case by case. 

 

 

This post is beautiful and you have asked questions desperately needed to be said and asked. 

 And thank you for putting in a bit of a psychological outlook  on this.  I think it’s good to outline the reasoning behind emotions and behaviors 

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Stubbly_Dooright
5 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

Here in the Real World

Cowboys don't cry, and heroes don't die
Good always wins, again and again
And love is a sweet dream that always comes true
Oh, if life were like the movies, I'd never be blue

But here in the real world
It's not that easy at all
'Cause when hearts get broken
It's real tears that fall
And darlin' it's sad but true
But the one thing I've learned from you
Is how the boy don't always get the girl
Here in the real world

I gave you my love, but that wasn't enough
To hold your heart, when times got rough
And tonight on that silver screen
It'll end like it should
Two lovers will make it through
Like I hoped we would

But here in the real world
It's not that easy at all
'Cause when hearts get broken
It's real tears that fall
And darlin' it's sad but true
But the one thing I've learned from you
Is how the boy don't always get the girl
Here in the real world

No, the boy don't always get the girl
Here in the real world

Songwriters: MARK IRWIN, ALAN JACKSON
There is a true story behind this song. It is the summation of a genuine act of contrition and forgiveness and one of the most beautiful of which I know.

Ah yes Hammie,  I think that was beautiful you placing the song lyrics in this thread. 

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Stubbly_Dooright
3 hours ago, Sherapy said:

For me, it is a lot of pressure to have to like everyone. I honestly don’t like everyone and I don’t forgive everyone and it has not affected my life at all. 

My only caveat is that I don’t allow a negative experience make me so bitter that I I lose my passion for life and the people in it. 

Yet, this has never required forgiving an ******* in my life. 

I get that in my life I am gonna meet some real creeps, get blindsided etc. etc. it happens and when it does I am going to get p***ed, and set boundaries, or be sad, or be shocked or appalled, etc. then I am gonna focus on what is best for me, and eventually make some changes, get wiser, get smarter, cut ties, close the door on any further dealings and eventually move on. 

:yes: Bingo :yes: 

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LightAngel
4 hours ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

Wow, to me, that seems so incredibly similar to how I see it and practice it. This seems how I see it as well. Thank you. And part of it is closer to how certain 'negative' thoughts and such pop up, (like how you see it), I work through them in my mind, so like you said, when it actually occurs, and more sure of more positive outcomes and thoughts. I also feel, to let it out, (bleed out the bad) in what I work through in my head, helps me in other ways. I think you did a wonderful job explaining this here. 

 

 

Thank you.

I don't like everyone I forgive, but since I believe that forgiveness has a lot to do with doing it for our own sake, then I forgive so I can live my life in a productive way.

But don't get me wrong here, I can be angry too :gun:

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Sherapy
4 minutes ago, LightAngel said:

Thank you.

I don't like everyone I forgive, but since I believe that forgiveness has a lot to do with doing it for our own sake, then I forgive so I can live my life in a productive way.

But don't get me wrong here, I can be angry too :gun:

This makes sense to me. 

 

Edited by Sherapy
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Hammerclaw

Sometimes, the heaviest burden in the world to carry is a forgiving heart.

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pallidin

I will eventually become, if nothing more, a stench-filled corpse, oozing fluids until I'm found and disposed of.

A dead animal rotting in the wild.

Smelling really bad.

On the upside...

 

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Stubbly_Dooright
13 hours ago, LightAngel said:
18 hours ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

Wow, to me, that seems so incredibly similar to how I see it and practice it. This seems how I see it as well. Thank you. And part of it is closer to how certain 'negative' thoughts and such pop up, (like how you see it), I work through them in my mind, so like you said, when it actually occurs, and more sure of more positive outcomes and thoughts. I also feel, to let it out, (bleed out the bad) in what I work through in my head, helps me in other ways. I think you did a wonderful job explaining this here. 

 

 

Thank you.

I don't like everyone I forgive, but since I believe that forgiveness has a lot to do with doing it for our own sake, then I forgive so I can live my life in a productive way.

But don't get me wrong here, I can be angry too :gun:

You're welcome. 

I will probably just say this solely on me, but I really cannot understand this. Forgiving for one's own sake. I have always seen it as something done for the sake of another. I can understand doing something for one's own sake, to help them heal, and be at peace, and go from there, but not the act of forgiveness. Not when it's the act of forgiveness toward another. When I reflect on the possibilities on it, I see it in only short terms. Because, I think one is lying to one's self, and the real truth of how someone sees someone else, will come back. I have seen that happen within me, all the time. 

That's why I ask about experiences and if they are permanent. It just seems that the advise of forgiving just like that, is going to be permanent. Is it? 

But, like I said, it might just be me, and you brought some reality in your posts, LightAngel, and I am thankful for that. And that, you also bring up some talking points. :yes:  I wonder at what you think about my thoughts and my question(s). 

13 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

Sometimes, the heaviest burden in the world to carry is a forgiving heart.

Now, I would really like more explained on this. In what way, you see this? 

I also reflect on it too, because if a forgiving heart is a heavy burden, then it's not the 'cure' that some others are professing it to be, right? 

Very curious  on this. :)  

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Stubbly_Dooright
10 hours ago, pallidin said:

I will eventually become, if nothing more, a stench-filled corpse, oozing fluids until I'm found and disposed of.

A dead animal rotting in the wild.

Smelling really bad.

On the upside...

 

Confused. 

I think........................................ 

Can you explain this for me? :) 

 

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Hammerclaw
29 minutes ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

You're welcome. 

I will probably just say this solely on me, but I really cannot understand this. Forgiving for one's own sake. I have always seen it as something done for the sake of another. I can understand doing something for one's own sake, to help them heal, and be at peace, and go from there, but not the act of forgiveness. Not when it's the act of forgiveness toward another. When I reflect on the possibilities on it, I see it in only short terms. Because, I think one is lying to one's self, and the real truth of how someone sees someone else, will come back. I have seen that happen within me, all the time. 

That's why I ask about experiences and if they are permanent. It just seems that the advise of forgiving just like that, is going to be permanent. Is it? 

But, like I said, it might just be me, and you brought some reality in your posts, LightAngel, and I am thankful for that. And that, you also bring up some talking points. :yes:  I wonder at what you think about my thoughts and my question(s). 

Now, I would really like more explained on this. In what way, you see this? 

I also reflect on it too, because if a forgiving heart is a heavy burden, then it's not the 'cure' that some others are professing it to be, right? 

Very curious  on this. :)  

Having an all-forgiving heart of even the underserved' is like being nailed to a cross for their sake, carrying the weight of their infidelities and indiscretions to your grave, as Christ carried his to Golgotha, while they skate free. 

Edited by Hammerclaw
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Sherapy
55 minutes ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

You're welcome. 

I will probably just say this solely on me, but I really cannot understand this. Forgiving for one's own sake. I have always seen it as something done for the sake of another. I can understand doing something for one's own sake, to help them heal, and be at peace, and go from there, but not the act of forgiveness. Not when it's the act of forgiveness toward another. When I reflect on the possibilities on it, I see it in only short terms. Because, I think one is lying to one's self, and the real truth of how someone sees someone else, will come back. I have seen that happen within me, all the time. 

That's why I ask about experiences and if they are permanent. It just seems that the advise of forgiving just like that, is going to be permanent. Is it? 

But, like I said, it might just be me, and you brought some reality in your posts, LightAngel, and I am thankful for that. And that, you also bring up some talking points. :yes:  I wonder at what you think about my thoughts and my question(s). 

Now, I would really like more explained on this. In what way, you see this? 

I also reflect on it too, because if a forgiving heart is a heavy burden, then it's not the 'cure' that some others are professing it to be, right? 

Very curious  on this. :)  

What an excellent point Stubbs., how does forgiving another help? 

My family agreed to forgive my sister for repeatedly extorting money from my grandmother. We forgave her wth conditions, meaning she would have the opportunity and  environmental support to work on herself, basically to earn back trust, and that we wished her the best. 

With that being said, me, my Dad, and Grandmother had a strategy in place taking the position she couldn't/ wouldn't get herself together. If she called my grandmother with some story of going into business and needed start up funds, granny was to say you have to talk to your dad for all loans,, my dad is on the front lines because my sister can't get around him, his standard is integrity and he stands by it. My place is to make sure my Dad does his part which is as trustee he is to protect my grandmother first and foremost and I hold him to it, which isn't a problem because he is guided by integrity. We don't make excuses for her anymore. 

My sister has made three attempts to steal money, one was the start up business to granny, my grandmother did her part another attempt was made  to me she was claiming she had tickets and if she didn't get money to pay them she was going to jail, I did my part ( my dad called her boyfriend and we found out she had paid her tickets) and the third was she tried to get more money for therapy visits from my grandmother saying dad  said to ask. My grandmother did her part and called my Dad. 

Guess what, my sister is p***ed at us all and indignant that we went behind her back (according to her) this is not a environment of forgiveness, she thinks she should just be trusted again, without earning it. 

Obviously, in this case forgiveness was vacuous as any kind of growth for my sister, what has changed is our proactive diligence in regards to protecting my grandmother from a thief and we no longer deal with any drama, we do our part and leave my sister to her own nitemare.This isn't about forgiveness it is about appropriate boundaries. Honestly, life is more peaceful this way. 

 

 

 

 

 

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Sherapy
34 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

Having an all-forgiving heart of even the underserved' is like being nailed to a cross for their sake, carrying the weight of their infidelities and indiscretions to your grave, as Christ carried his to Golgotha, while they skate free. 

Indeed, not much changed. 

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Stubbly_Dooright
2 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

Having an all-forgiving heart of even the underserved' is like being nailed to a cross for their sake, carrying the weight of their infidelities and indiscretions to your grave, as Christ carried his to Golgotha, while they skate free. 

Wow! :tu:  

I must admit, I never thought of this in this way. A part of me can't see this, but reflecting on it more, I think this would be closely to the thinking of my thinking as forgiving them and allowing them to be excused for their behavior. Seeing this as a great burden, I wonder, if this is something I see about this, but not fully aware of it and able to label it as well. \

2 hours ago, Sherapy said:

What an excellent point Stubbs., how does forgiving another help? 

My family agreed to forgive my sister for repeatedly extorting money from my grandmother. We forgave her wth conditions, meaning she would have the opportunity and  environmental support to work on herself, basically to earn back trust, and that we wished her the best. 

With that being said, me, my Dad, and Grandmother had a strategy in place taking the position she couldn't/ wouldn't get herself together. If she called my grandmother with some story of going into business and needed start up funds, granny was to say you have to talk to your dad for all loans,, my dad is on the front lines because my sister can't get around him, his standard is integrity and he stands by it. My place is to make sure my Dad does his part which is as trustee he is to protect my grandmother first and foremost and I hold him to it, which isn't a problem because he is guided by integrity. We don't make excuses for her anymore. 

My sister has made three attempts to steal money, one was the start up business to granny, my grandmother did her part another attempt was made  to me she was claiming she had tickets and if she didn't get money to pay them she was going to jail, I did my part ( my dad called her boyfriend and we found out she had paid her tickets) and the third was she tried to get more money for therapy visits from my grandmother saying dad  said to ask. My grandmother did her part and called my Dad. 

Guess what, my sister is p***ed at us all and indignant that we went behind her back (according to her) this is not a environment of forgiveness, she thinks she should just be trusted again, without earning it. 

Obviously, in this case forgiveness was vacuous as any kind of growth for my sister, what has changed is our proactive diligence in regards to protecting my grandmother from a thief and we no longer deal with any drama, we do our part and leave my sister to her own nitemare.This isn't about forgiveness it is about appropriate boundaries. Honestly, life is more peaceful this way. 

I think this is the best way of showing an example of why boundaries need to be there and how forgiving for just forgiving, does not do that. Great example and proving it. :yes:  :tu:  

 

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LightAngel
On 1/24/2018 at 5:53 AM, Hammerclaw said:

Sometimes, the heaviest burden in the world to carry is a forgiving heart.

I recognize that feeling.

That's why I show my claws now :P

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Sherapy
20 hours ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

Wow! :tu:  

I must admit, I never thought of this in this way. A part of me can't see this, but reflecting on it more, I think this would be closely to the thinking of my thinking as forgiving them and allowing them to be excused for their behavior. Seeing this as a great burden, I wonder, if this is something I see about this, but not fully aware of it and able to label it as well. \

I think this is the best way of showing an example of why boundaries need to be there and how forgiving for just forgiving, does not do that. Great example and proving it. :yes:  :tu:  

 

Generally, no the act of saying I forgive you does not right wrongs, or set boundaries, or change behavior. In truth, it is the initial shock or anger that motivates, inspires these much needed changes. Forgiving for the sake of forgiving most likely will keep the problems going. 

This kind of forgiving IMHO is more about ego then anything else, the ego can't bear to be thought of as mean, or can't be identified any other way other than being a nice person, or a person thinks they want to be as Jesus, no matter what anyone does-- turn the other cheek, for me, this is complacency and a form of denial that encourages martyrdom or a kind of forgiveness that avoids putting the measures in place to really limit harm and this practice of turn the other cheek diminishes the consistency needed that setting boundaries allows, ultimately we want  to avoid further victimization. 

Getting angry, or being outraged appropriately and deciding to put an end to further exploitiation, by setting boundaries or requiring proactive remorse, by being consistent, or moving on when there is no hope of reconciliation or taking the time to evaluate how one can change, allow space to heal is the actual process of forgiveness.  In application, the biblical idea of turn the other cheek forgiveness isn't realistic. I think this is an important thread because we can go along way in limiting harm to each other, by exploring what does and doesn't work. 

I think it helps to be comfortable with our own humanity, it helps to respect our emotions and let them guide us and it helps to be comfortable with the idea we will have to make choices that others aren't going to like, we are not gonna be liked at times. Oh well. 

Edited by Sherapy
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GoldenWolf
23 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

Having an all-forgiving heart of even the underserved' is like being nailed to a cross for their sake, carrying the weight of their infidelities and indiscretions to your grave, as Christ carried his to Golgotha, while they skate free. 

B.S.

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