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8 Family Members Killed In Ohio


susieice

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5 hours ago, Cinpooh said:

If someone's car is on my property they give owner of said car a warrant to search their car. The garage wasn't searched. Just their property. Owner of the garage said he was shown a warrant but not given one. Because it was not his property being searched. Their belongings were being stored not in a dumpster to be thrown away. 

Thanks for the clarification Cin :tu: I didn't think by the way everything is described so far that their stuff would count as abandoned or tossed. But I really wasn't too sure about the boundaries of legality otherwise. That makes a lot of sense about the garage owner.

I'm not part of FB groups either. I'm guessing it's a private or invite group or does FB just have groups? I do have a FB to check random stories sometimes, but I don't really use it enough to know about groups for this. It was only the other day that I really came across the topix threads with it's social media stuff- another thread I found in that mess was about Dana and Chris Sr getting back together in 2010- she participated in that thread to confirm it.

And lol, nothing to do with the case at all, but something I found amusing in that forum area. Mixed in with all the more serious murder and police stuff is shout outs with random things.. Pretty regularly folks ask where one particular gal is- and it always seems like she's in the clink, or out of town, or off doing other nefarious things.. Or someone is selling cow gallstones, or is wondering who drives that old green Buick with the white top... some pretty random stuff sometimes.

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29 minutes ago, rashore said:

Thanks for the clarification Cin :tu: I didn't think by the way everything is described so far that their stuff would count as abandoned or tossed. But I really wasn't too sure about the boundaries of legality otherwise. That makes a lot of sense about the garage owner.

I'm not part of FB groups either. I'm guessing it's a private or invite group or does FB just have groups? I do have a FB to check random stories sometimes, but I don't really use it enough to know about groups for this. It was only the other day that I really came across the topix threads with it's social media stuff- another thread I found in that mess was about Dana and Chris Sr getting back together in 2010- she participated in that thread to confirm it.

And lol, nothing to do with the case at all, but something I found amusing in that forum area. Mixed in with all the more serious murder and police stuff is shout outs with random things.. Pretty regularly folks ask where one particular gal is- and it always seems like she's in the clink, or out of town, or off doing other nefarious things.. Or someone is selling cow gallstones, or is wondering who drives that old green Buick with the white top... some pretty random stuff sometimes.

Selling cow gallstones and green Buick with white top may not be so random. :o

Some of the groups you have to join and others are open. 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Cinpooh said:

Selling cow gallstones and green Buick with white top may not be so random. :o

Some of the groups you have to join and others are open. 

 

 

Jinkies Cin.. you messing with me, lol? Cuz dang, sometimes you got the 411.. But that totally looks like a joke too..

But if the FB groups are open to check out.. sure, post them here. Um, if you can without posting your own info- I dunno how newspapers link FB stuff, but I bet regular folks can do it anonymously too.

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Most of the time, newspaper links are from the papers themselves. I've had a problem a few times when the facebook link posted my page in here. I had a mod remove it. I try to watch more carefully now that the link takes me to the site off Facebook.

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3 minutes ago, docyabut2 said:

Really guys what evidence do they have to suggest it was more then one killer?

I think is has to do with the spacing of the properties. A couple were close together, but the last one was 8 mile-ish away. I might be naive, but often multiple sites can indicate multiple shooters.
And we don't have those parts of the reports that might have indicated multiple weapons or not.

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19 minutes ago, rashore said:

I think is has to do with the spacing of the properties. A couple were close together, but the last one was 8 mile-ish away. I might be naive, but often multiple sites can indicate multiple shooters.
And we don't have those parts of the reports that might have indicated multiple weapons or not.

The last person to be killed, Kenneth Rhoden (the brother of Gary Rhoden Snr), lived at Left Fork Rd in Rardon (population 159), about 5km from where the seven other murders took place in a cluster of trailers on Union Hill Rd in Piketon village.

His cousin Donald “Donny” Stone stunningly revealed to reporters that he’d found Kenneth dead in his bunk with around $1000 cash strewn around his feet. Kenneth had been shot just once (compared to the nine and seven bullets found in two of the other victims) and his pitbulls left alive.

It could have been one killer on a rampage.

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11 hours ago, docyabut2 said:

The last person to be killed, Kenneth Rhoden (the brother of Gary Rhoden Snr), lived at Left Fork Rd in Rardon (population 159), about 5km from where the seven other murders took place in a cluster of trailers on Union Hill Rd in Piketon village.

His cousin Donald “Donny” Stone stunningly revealed to reporters that he’d found Kenneth dead in his bunk with around $1000 cash strewn around his feet. Kenneth had been shot just once (compared to the nine and seven bullets found in two of the other victims) and his pitbulls left alive.

It could have been one killer on a rampage.

Sure it could have been one killer on a rampage. I was just of the notion that the LEO might be of the notion of multiple killers because of multiple crime scenes. It is interesting that Kenneth was only shot once when the rest were shot multiple times. I'm not going to hazard a guess as to why that may be.

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It could have been one, but because of multiple victims in each crime scene, it would be hard to shoot one and not awaken the others. We don't have full autopsy reports, but there was no indication that any of the victims woke up and moved because they heard multiple gunshots. I'm sure Dana, Chris Jr and Hannah were sleeping in separate bedrooms. If they were still sleeping and shot in their beds, to me, that would indicate that none were awakened by the gunshots that killed the other. And all were killed by multiple gunshots to the head except for Kenneth, who was Chris Sr's brother. Gary was a cousin from Kentucky.

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21 hours ago, Cinpooh said:

If someone's car is on my property they give owner of said car a warrant to search their car. The garage wasn't searched. Just their property. Owner of the garage said he was shown a warrant but not given one. Because it was not his property being searched. Their belongings were being stored not in a dumpster to be thrown away. 

I'm sorry but I have to differ with you on this one.  Searches have to be contained within the limitations of the warrants  or the evidence won't go to court.  Not even the example of the car on someone else's property holds up to me.  That would mean they can ONLY search the car and discover evidence contained in it.  If they should find a cigarette butt on the ground two feet away from it that contains the DNA of who drove the car, that cigarette butt can't go to court. 

So carrying that through, IF the owners of the property had stored the trailer in the garage with all of their property neatly in it BUT then placed the rifles used in the murders in the rafters of the garage itself, without a warrant on the garage itself, LE would be forced to just stand their and look at the rifles and would not be allowed to bring them in as evidence.  I don't even think they could run back to the judge and have an additional warrant issued because they would then be what they call "fruits of a poisonous tree (meaning they were found in the garage in area not covered under warrant).

One other notation is that I think most situations that you run into when the crime scenes searched are RENTED apartments or buildings.  If there is an actual RENTAL agreement I believe that changes the situation and the property rights switch to the renter rather than the owner.  However, in this situation, it would only make sense to cover both bases. 

Now I will modify my position here enough to add I'm predicating this on the assumption LE was smart enough to issue the warrants correctly.  I have to add, I'm still up in the air on that one. 

I have to note you are all reaping my esteemed opinion based on the legal degree I have obtained by watching hours and hours of A&E ID murder docs which of course ranks right up there with one from Harvard. 

Anyway, I'm thinking the current owner was veering from the truth about his knowledge of the warrants.

 

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12 hours ago, docyabut2 said:

It could have been one killer on a rampage.

Needless to say, we don't know all the evidence, but I'm not aware of any evidence from which it could actually be determined that it was more than one killer.

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13 hours ago, docyabut2 said:

Really guys what evidence do they have to suggest it was more then one killer?

Docy, you keep asking this question as if there is an answer out there that we are not sharing or discussing.  It's not that we don't want to answer you, there simply is no answer.  What evidence do we have from this year long investigation at all ?  Almost nothing that wasn't revealed within the first 24 hrs.  They have even managed to continue stalling the release of the entire information in the autopsies.  How long have those FOIA suits by the Cin Enquirer and the Dispatch been in the court now without a peep on them ?  (Even though DeWine's son did recuse himself and LOL at that one ) 

Well I have another question.  Can anyone name even ONE other case in which LE has found it necessary to hide everything they know ???  As I read the recent link Rashore posted about the other murders that may or may not be related, I couldn't help but think it's really too bad not one single reporter has felt like reporting on this case in the same manner. 

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Guys it still could be one shooter.  He loaded up one gun at the first scene and then reloaded at the rest of the scenes.  A one killer could have time to go to one bedroom shoot and go quickly to another bedroom to shoot with out the victims ever getting  out of the  bed .:(

 

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2 minutes ago, docyabut2 said:

Guys it still could be one shooter.  He loaded up one gun at the first scene and then reloaded at the rest of the scenes.  A one killer could have time to go to one bedroom shoot and go quickly to another bedroom to shoot with out the victims ever getting  out of the  bed .:(

That's true.. it could be one shooter or multiple shooters. We just don't know yet. Not enough information.

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Docy, re: your post #788, you yourself have said that there must be some sort of evidence, you know, for authorities to appear confident that it was two- or at least two- killers.

Now at one scene, the bodies were dragged- or at least one body was dragged- and so the first thing I would imagine is that there might have been footprints showing more than one perp, and/or there could be at least two unknown DNA profiles... Whatever the evidence is, I think it must be convincing, strong- solid- evidence for authorities to have formed the conclusion.

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9 hours ago, regi said:

Docy, re: your post #788, you yourself have said that there must be some sort of evidence, you know, for authorities to appear confident that it was two- or at least two- killers.

Now at one scene, the bodies were dragged- or at least one body was dragged- and so the first thing I would imagine is that there might have been footprints showing more than one perp, and/or there could be at least two unknown DNA profiles... Whatever the evidence is, I think it must be convincing, strong- solid- evidence for authorities to have formed the conclusion.

That's the problem Regi the authorities are not giving out any information ,of how they came to the conclusion of why they think it was  more then one killer  and something  the real killer would only know.

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14 hours ago, docyabut2 said:

That's the problem Regi the authorities are not giving out any information ,of how they came to the conclusion of why they think it was  more then one killer  and something  the real killer would only know.

My point was that if they're are saying it's at least two, then they must have collected the sort evidence I suggested. If they're saying "killer or killers", then I would think that they must not have collected such evidence.

On another note, I've been trying to come across another spree killer case that's played out as this one has, but so far, I haven't.

 

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8 hours ago, regi said:

My point was that if they're are saying it's at least two, then they must have collected the sort evidence I suggested. If they're saying "killer or killers", then I would think that they must not have collected such evidence.

On another note, I've been trying to come across another spree killer case that's played out as this one has, but so far, I haven't.

 

Perhaps the authorities put that out there of more then one killer,  to bring out the one killer to confess he did it alone, just out of ego he did it alone . 

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12 hours ago, regi said:

My point was that if they're are saying it's at least two, then they must have collected the sort evidence I suggested. If they're saying "killer or killers", then I would think that they must not have collected such evidence.

On another note, I've been trying to come across another spree killer case that's played out as this one has, but so far, I haven't.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2477434/Man-guilty-killing-family-members-mobile-home-beating-death-row-bottle-pills.html

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As in this case its hard to believe a person can kill eight members of their family , but it is possible, is why I think they are focusing on  Wagner:(

 

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13 hours ago, docyabut2 said:

That's a mass murder, which is when there are at least four victims in one location; a spree murder is when there are at least three victims at more than one location.

In both types of cases, though, the perp is almost always quickly identified.

12 hours ago, docyabut2 said:

As in this case its hard to believe a person can kill eight members of their family , but it is possible, is why I think they are focusing on  Wagner:(

Well it shouldn't be hard to believe and I wouldn't know who- or what- they're focusing on, but below is a case I think is especially interesting and I think you will, too. 

It's a spree murder- although I've read it referred to as mass- in which a man killed his wife and six other (extended) family members.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/1987/10/07/us/in-7-deaths-town-knew-what-experts-didn-t.html?mcubz=2

http://people.com/archive/a-shocking-arrest-breaks-the-case-of-a-missouri-farm-familys-murder-and-rescues-a-boys-reputation-vol-28-no-17/

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I came across this video this morning on my daily search to see if what's going on with the Rhodens.  I'm a little unsure where to post it since there is currently another thread regarding the use of DNA.  Since it initially addresses the Rhoden case I decided to post it both places because I have separate comments. 

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=rhoden+murders&view=detail&mid=2F3B0CB17ABA789442032F3B0CB17ABA78944203&FORM=VIRE

It seems to be a youtube presentation with no news affiliation indicated but they seem to be pretty logical and professional in what they are discussing.  In the Rhoden case this guy brings up a couple of things I hadn't thought about such as the possibility of touch DNA being on the bullets and also if Chris Sr. was beaten which it sounds like he was there might be touch DNA on the bruised areas. 

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9 hours ago, Vincennes said:

I came across this video this morning on my daily search to see if what's going on with the Rhodens.  I'm a little unsure where to post it since there is currently another thread regarding the use of DNA.  Since it initially addresses the Rhoden case I decided to post it both places because I have separate comments. 

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=rhoden+murders&view=detail&mid=2F3B0CB17ABA789442032F3B0CB17ABA78944203&FORM=VIRE

It seems to be a youtube presentation with no news affiliation indicated but they seem to be pretty logical and professional in what they are discussing.  In the Rhoden case this guy brings up a couple of things I hadn't thought about such as the possibility of touch DNA being on the bullets and also if Chris Sr. was beaten which it sounds like he was there might be touch DNA on the bruised areas. 

But Vin the killer may have worn gloves in the beatings and in the shootings, which would leave no touch DNA 

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The thing that's gets me in this case is some reports say dollar bills were thrown on the last victim, while other reports say it was thousand  of dollars,  I mean who is going to walk away leaving thousand of dollars?  

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11 hours ago, regi said:

That's a mass murder, which is when there are at least four victims in one location; a spree murder is when there are at least three victims at more than one location.

In both types of cases, though, the perp is almost always quickly identified.

Well it shouldn't be hard to believe and I wouldn't know who- or what- they're focusing on, but below is a case I think is especially interesting and I think you will, too. 

It's a spree murder- although I've read it referred to as mass- in which a man killed his wife and six other (extended) family members.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/1987/10/07/us/in-7-deaths-town-knew-what-experts-didn-t.html?mcubz=2

http://people.com/archive/a-shocking-arrest-breaks-the-case-of-a-missouri-farm-familys-murder-and-rescues-a-boys-reputation-vol-28-no-17/

Most say one person  could `nt  have over power eight people at a time. but the case I posted is it can be done. even in a spree it can be done.   

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