+susieice Posted October 10, 2018 Author #976 Share Posted October 10, 2018 5 hours ago, docyabut2 said: Isn't there a article on this thread saying, Wagner picked up his daughter at 10:30 pm the night the Rhodens were all murdered? Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincennes Posted October 10, 2018 #977 Share Posted October 10, 2018 5 hours ago, docyabut2 said: Isn't there a article on this thread saying, Wagner picked up his daughter at 10:30 pm the night the Rhodens were all murdered? But I don't think there was anything that Wagner and Hannah were not getting along. Just the fact he was picking up the little girl lends itself to they had worked out some type of shared custody or visitation arrangement. Don't you think people in that small town would know it if the Wagner guy had enough anger going on to kill 8 people ? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regi Posted October 11, 2018 #978 Share Posted October 11, 2018 On 10/9/2018 at 9:52 AM, Vincennes said: Well now that I'm calmed down perhaps we can go back and I can join you in discussing some actual aspects of the murders. On 10/9/2018 at 9:52 AM, Vincennes said: You've mentioned the fact that the bodies (or at least one body) was dragged or moved. I'm not challenging here or doubting, I just really don't remember seeing anything about that. Do you remember anything else about that. Was it from a news report or something Cry'n Sheriff Reader came up with ? No, I don't remember that it was ever reported, but it was Bobby's impression (heard in her call to 911) of what she observed of the blood pattern, and indeed, both bodies were found in one room. Also, Gary's father said (in a video interview) that he was informed by LE that Chris, Sr.s' body was "laying one way and Gary was laying over his legs", which I think shows that Chris' body was there first when Gary's body was 'put' there. Now, I understand that moving and/or covering up a body usually means that the perp was trying to delay the discovery of the crime, and so in this instance, I'm wondering what that could tell us or even suggest about how and when events played out, and also about the motive(s) at each scene. On 10/9/2018 at 9:52 AM, Vincennes said: Since my theory of the murders is that it somehow involved torturing Chris Sr. by shooting at least some family in front of him and I think a lot of the action took place around the safe to try and force him to give up what was in it. I'm not challenging here or doubting, I just really don't know, which circumstances indicate that he was tortured? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regi Posted October 11, 2018 #979 Share Posted October 11, 2018 On 10/9/2018 at 9:58 AM, Vincennes said: You went on to comment that there's nothing in these reports regarding anyone being shot through a door and there certainly is not ! So where did that bit of information come from ? I can't even see a logical place where it might have fit in unless it's a reference to wood being in the wounds or could there be a photo of the door ? It hadn't even crossed my mind that those reports would also include photos from the scene! Still, all I know is that that info. comes from documents that you and I aren't allowed to see. (Not yet, anyway. ) Btw, one other bit of info. just recently reported that I forgot to mention was that one report (as I recall, it was Gary's) was that the gun was of a "large" calibur. Well, we've already discussed that it would be such a circumstance that would indicate more than one perp, that is, if it was determined that more than one weapon was used at any one crime scene. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regi Posted October 11, 2018 #980 Share Posted October 11, 2018 On 10/10/2018 at 2:48 AM, docyabut2 said: Isn't there a article on this thread saying, Wagner picked up his daughter at 10:30 pm the night the Rhodens were all murdered? I'm sure there is, but I don't remember the source of the info. As I recall, my info came from an article reporting an interview with Wagner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regi Posted October 11, 2018 #981 Share Posted October 11, 2018 ^ I would think that a link to the article I refer to above has also been posted somewhere in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+susieice Posted October 12, 2018 Author #982 Share Posted October 12, 2018 (edited) There are links in here somewhere that say Wagner picked his daughter up at 10:30 the night of the murders but I don't recall anything saying he was fighting with Hanna Rhoden. I think it's linked back there around the time of the funerals that he thought he might be the father of her infant also. There may or may not have been someone else who said it could be his baby. They wanted the court to do DNA tests. Don't recall ever hearing how that turned out. God! There's just been sooo many links in this thread! Edited October 12, 2018 by susieice 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+susieice Posted October 12, 2018 Author #983 Share Posted October 12, 2018 (edited) Ok. Found another link. He did petition because he thought he may be Hanna's infants father. He was shown not to be. This is the first I can recall hearing the results of the test. Quote from link: Three children, including a newborn daughter of Hanna’s, were found alive with the bodies but physically unharmed. Sophia was not at her mother’s trailer that night. Jake Wagner later told investigators the toddler had been with him. He also said that he thought he was the father of Hanna’s newborn, Kylie Rhoden, but court-ordered paternity tests ordered after Hanna died showed that wasn’t the case. http://www.barnesville-enterprise.com/news/20170619/authorities-seek-information-about-family-regarding-pike-county-slayings I guess this could have been a sore spot between the two but Jake didn't know for sure until after the murders. Edited October 12, 2018 by susieice 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regi Posted October 12, 2018 #984 Share Posted October 12, 2018 What I mean by "source" is who attributed the info, or (reporters don't always get it right, you know) who was the info attributed to? In the article I mentioned, the source was Wagner. Re: paternity of Hanna's newborn, I came across an article yesterday which reported that it was Wagner named as father on the birth certificate, however, I can't recall whether anyone was named as the father. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docyabut2 Posted October 12, 2018 #985 Share Posted October 12, 2018 (edited) I think Wagner knew her second child was not his, and why he killed his ex-wife and her whole family. in most cases it was a member of the family, not for the drugs or a mafia or anything else Edited October 12, 2018 by docyabut2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincennes Posted October 13, 2018 #986 Share Posted October 13, 2018 On 10/11/2018 at 10:54 AM, Regi said: No, I don't remember that it was ever reported, but it was Bobby's impression (heard in her call to 911) of what she observed of the blood pattern, and indeed, both bodies were found in one room. Also, Gary's father said (in a video interview) that he was informed by LE that Chris, Sr.s' body was "laying one way and Gary was laying over his legs", which I think shows that Chris' body was there first when Gary's body was 'put' there. Now, I understand that moving and/or covering up a body usually means that the perp was trying to delay the discovery of the crime, and so in this instance, I'm wondering what that could tell us or even suggest about how and when events played out, and also about the motive(s) at each scene. After I asked you about this I did come across a reference to this and it was attributed to information Bobbi initially gave. I'm agreeing they could have been thinking that moving the body to the bedroom might delay Bobbi from discovery. We'd have to know more about the layout of the trailer but perhaps there is a path from the door to the kitchen for the dog food and moving the bodies got them out of that path. But shooting through the bedroom door ? (and I think it almost has to be a bedroom door. News cameras would have caught bullet holes on the exterior doors) Wouldn't that mean they were in the bedroom, awakened, shot as they went to exit the room, were alive enough to exit the room and then were dragged back in ? On 10/11/2018 at 10:54 AM, Regi said: I'm not challenging here or doubting, I just really don't know, which circumstances indicate that he was tortured? Supposition and supposition only but I think the reaction of LE in the things they are so hiding lends itself to that. Now, it's way back in the thread but remember we found a reference in an article that at the time they moved the trailers a "county official" had commented to the news there was additional cost to the county because of the extremely heavy item in the trailer that couldn't be removed. (The article with the statement was no where to be found, they seem to have pulled it) I think that heavy article was a full size safe. And I think what they didn't want the public to know was the blood evidence in and around that safe. That's why Chris Sr. was the only one shot in multiple places. He was brought in front of that safe and shot until he agreed to open it. Then when that didn't work, they went to killing his family one by one and made sure he either saw or heard them die. That could be why he had been taken from the safe area to the bedroom area. They weren't all sleeping in their beds, they were being held in their beds being shot one by one. Then, when there was nothing left to torture him with, they finished him off and just threw him in the closest bedroom on top of his cousin. With my theory he wasn't dragged to the bedroom to delay discovery. That's just where they finished him off. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regi Posted October 13, 2018 #987 Share Posted October 13, 2018 3 hours ago, Vincennes said: But shooting through the bedroom door ? My take away from that is just that the shooter either knew or believed that Chris was behind the door. 3 hours ago, Vincennes said: That's why Chris Sr. was the only one shot in multiple places. I think that shows that he had at least a little bit of an opportunity to try to defend himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincennes Posted October 13, 2018 #988 Share Posted October 13, 2018 2 hours ago, Regi said: My take away from that is just that the shooter either knew or believed that Chris was behind the door. I think that shows that he had at least a little bit of an opportunity to try to defend himself. If they didn't intend to kill everyone, wouldn't they open the door and be sure who was in the way of the bullets ? Or does this tell us they were so familiar with the home that they knew which bedroom was Chris Sr's. Do you mean the opportunity to defend himself is that he had time to run to the bedroom and close the door ? Do we really know where Chris Sr. and his cousin from Kentucky were sleeping? The drag/door theory sounds to me like they were both in the bedroom. Actually, I always thought Chris Sr. was in the bedroom and his cousin was on the couch but ??? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regi Posted October 14, 2018 #989 Share Posted October 14, 2018 43 minutes ago, Vincennes said: If they didn't intend to kill everyone, wouldn't they open the door and be sure who was in the way of the bullets ? Or does this tell us they were so familiar with the home that they knew which bedroom was Chris Sr's. Oh, I think they'd have somehow been sure that it was Chris, Sr. behind the door. 52 minutes ago, Vincennes said: Do you mean the opportunity to defend himself is that he had time to run to the bedroom and close the door ? I just meant that he was awake and moving around as opposed to in bed and asleep, which I think is the reason he was the only one shot in multiple places. Here's a newscast where it's reported that he was shot "at least once through a door". 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincennes Posted October 14, 2018 #990 Share Posted October 14, 2018 I'm sorry but that entire exercise of reporters reading and running out of the room to write things down is just plain SILLY ! I'm not throwing shade at the reporter's but rather the court ruling. What about the finding that Chris Sr.'s body was the most decomposed ? I sure wonder what type of time difference they talking about that could have caused that. Because If he's shot ahead of the others, it sure as heck flies against the rest of them all being asleep in their beds. The other thing I've been kicking around in my head are Dana's wounds. The overkill involved in shooting her up through the chin to me points to direct anger against Dana. Why ? Dana doesn't seem to have been living high on the proceeds of drug money. She was working every day at a nursing home which is darn hard work. Why were they extra mad at Dana ? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regi Posted October 14, 2018 #991 Share Posted October 14, 2018 (edited) 7 hours ago, Vincennes said: I'm sorry but that entire exercise of reporters reading and running out of the room to write things down is just plain SILLY ! I'm not throwing shade at the reporter's but rather the court ruling. I agree; that really was DOWNRIGHT SILLY the way they made such a production of the protocol! Seriously, it was completely unnecessary, so why did they do that?! 7 hours ago, Vincennes said: What about the finding that Chris Sr.'s body was the most decomposed ? I sure wonder what type of time difference they talking about that could have caused that. Yeah, how- and what- about that?! But in the first place, I'm not sure whether that's a coroner finding or whether it's a conclusion by the reporter based on their own interpretation of the coroner's description(s). ... 7 hours ago, Vincennes said: The other thing I've been kicking around in my head are Dana's wounds. The overkill involved in shooting her up through the chin to me points to direct anger against Dana. Why ? Dana doesn't seem to have been living high on the proceeds of drug money. She was working every day at a nursing home which is darn hard work. Why were they extra mad at Dana ? Well until you mentioned it, it was my understanding that one of the shots was to the neck, but if the trajectory was up through the chin, then I think that's definitely an unusual finding in a homicide! Re: overkill and what that shows, I counted that for at least four of the victims, one of the shots included (one to the face, which to me indicates hate... Re: Dana in particular, well (like several of the other victims), she also had at least one other source of income- selling cars...And one other circumstance that may or may not have anything to do with anything, but notable, she'd also just recently settled onto a rather impressive property. You know, Vin, if the motive for these murders is ever known, I get the feeling that it's gonna be a doozy. Below is a link to what appears to me to be a pretty good account of the record of the case. http://www.wikiwand.com/en/Pike_County,_Ohio,_shootings Edited October 14, 2018 by Regi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincennes Posted October 16, 2018 #992 Share Posted October 16, 2018 On 10/14/2018 at 3:30 PM, Regi said: Yeah, how- and what- about that?! But in the first place, I'm not sure whether that's a coroner finding or whether it's a conclusion by the reporter based on their own interpretation of the coroner's description(s). ... I never thought about it being a reporter's conclusion but that's certainly what this "read only" situation lends itself to. There were a couple of other things I questioned in that last link you posted. It said that the preliminary reports were issued "unredacted." It's been my understanding they were still redacted at least to some extent. Then the last line states heavily redacted final reports were released on Sept. 23. Now I'm totally confused. On 10/14/2018 at 3:30 PM, Regi said: Well until you mentioned it, it was my understanding that one of the shots was to the neck, but if the trajectory was up through the chin, then I think that's definitely an unusual finding in a homicide! Re: overkill and what that shows, I counted that for at least four of the victims, one of the shots included (one to the face, which to me indicates hate... Re: Dana in particular, well (like several of the other victims), she also had at least one other source of income- selling cars...And one other circumstance that may or may not have anything to do with anything, but notable, she'd also just recently settled onto a rather impressive property. You know, Vin, if the motive for these murders is ever known, I get the feeling that it's gonna be a doozy. Below is a link to what appears to me to be a pretty good account of the record of the case. I'm agree with the shot to the face indicating hate. In fact, shooting two of the victims five times in the head kind of says to me that they didn't have much of a head left, especially if it was a high caliber weapon. That's pretty much hate and overkill also. I'm not sure about Dana recently settling onto a rather impressive property. You mean the trailer she was living in ??? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regi Posted October 16, 2018 #993 Share Posted October 16, 2018 2 hours ago, Vincennes said: I never thought about it being a reporter's conclusion but that's certainly what this "read only" situation lends itself to. Right, you know, Vin, it's somebody's conclusion, and I think you and I would first need to know the circumstances upon which it's based! 2 hours ago, Vincennes said: There were a couple of other things I questioned in that last link you posted. It said that the preliminary reports were issued "unredacted." It's been my understanding they were still redacted at least to some extent. Well, as I recall, that article did contain at least a couple inaccuracies including at least one inaccurate conclusion I can think of at the moment...Anyway... My understanding is that reporters were allowed to view to the preliminary reports in full. 3 hours ago, Vincennes said: Then the last line states heavily redacted final reports were released on Sept. 23. Now I'm totally confused. I think that's what had me confused before, that is, what's "final" and "prelim" compared to we've already read over two years ago... But what I understand now (and you helped me to understand this, thank you! ) is that the reports we already read over two years ago were the final reports, and that what's recently released (to reporters only ) are the unredacted prelims. 4 hours ago, Vincennes said: I'm not sure about Dana recently settling onto a rather impressive property. You mean the trailer she was living in ??? What I meant was that it's my impression that it was a step up from wherever she'd been living before. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+susieice Posted October 17, 2018 Author #994 Share Posted October 17, 2018 (edited) This is Dana's trailer as it was on the morning the murders were discovered. Nice garage but I don't think it's impressive. Where was she living before? So it seems the anger was directed mainly on Chris Sr and the ex-wife. Chris had the most wounds, I think I recall 9, and Dana was shot through the face. I wish I could remember everything without looking through this whole thread. Wasn't it Frankie that had the 5 head shots? On 10/14/2018 at 8:50 AM, Vincennes said: I'm sorry but that entire exercise of reporters reading and running out of the room to write things down is just plain SILLY ! I'm not throwing shade at the reporter's but rather the court ruling. What about the finding that Chris Sr.'s body was the most decomposed ? I sure wonder what type of time difference they talking about that could have caused that. Because If he's shot ahead of the others, it sure as heck flies against the rest of them all being asleep in their beds. The other thing I've been kicking around in my head are Dana's wounds. The overkill involved in shooting her up through the chin to me points to direct anger against Dana. Why ? Dana doesn't seem to have been living high on the proceeds of drug money. She was working every day at a nursing home which is darn hard work. Why were they extra mad at Dana ? A CNA can make good money, especially if she works double shifts a lot. One shift would be all overtime. We know she worked a 7-3/ 3-11 double and clocked out of work just after 11 pm on the night she was murdered. Her trailer was also the only one of the 4 sites where police didn't find a grow site. Maybe she had just moved in for the garage. I don't know how long she was living here before she died. I don't remember hearing that. Edited October 17, 2018 by susieice 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+susieice Posted October 17, 2018 Author #995 Share Posted October 17, 2018 I found this article that was updated on September 10, 2018 about a Rhoden cousin that was found shot in June. It seems there is a suspect who they say was present at the scene at the time of death and he's also a suspect in another murder of a 77 yr old woman who's remains were found on his property. Any one know how this turned out? http://www.fox19.com/story/38600187/sheriff-prime-suspect-in-adams-co-womans-murder-was-at-scene-of-rhoden-cousin-shooting-death/ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+ouija ouija Posted October 17, 2018 #996 Share Posted October 17, 2018 21 hours ago, Vincennes said: I'm agree with the shot to the face indicating hate. In fact, shooting two of the victims five times in the head kind of says to me that they didn't have much of a head left, especially if it was a high caliber weapon. That's pretty much hate and overkill also. Just a thought that popped into my head: I think a shot to the face can also indicate guilt on the part of the shooter. They can't bear the victim looking at them; they see accusation. This may be in the moment or relate to an earlier incident. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regi Posted October 17, 2018 #997 Share Posted October 17, 2018 (edited) 7 hours ago, susieice said: This is Dana's trailer as it was on the morning the murders were discovered. Nice garage but I don't think it's impressive. Where was she living before? Maybe she had just moved in for the garage. I don't know how long she was living here before she died. I don't know where she was living before, but I've read that she lived there for only about a month. (Had it not been so short a time, I wouldn't have even mentioned it.) Edited October 17, 2018 by Regi 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regi Posted October 17, 2018 #998 Share Posted October 17, 2018 (edited) 7 hours ago, susieice said: Chris had the most wounds, I think I recall 9, and Dana was shot through the face. I wish I could remember everything without looking through this whole thread. Wasn't it Frankie that had the 5 head shots? According to the following report- the most detailed to date that I've come across- Frankie had 3, and yes, Chris had 9 wounds, although 4 of those were to other parts of the body, which to me, is at least part of the reason why authorities believe Chris was awake at the time... (Also according to this same report) Hannah G. had 5, which is as many as Dana and included at least 1 to the face. https://www.wlwt.com/article/rhoden-massacre-autopsy-reveals-gruesome-details-in-slayings-of-8-family-members/23322125 Edited October 17, 2018 by Regi 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+susieice Posted October 17, 2018 Author #999 Share Posted October 17, 2018 So, if she only lived there for a month, the killer(s) would have had to be in pretty close contact with the family to know she recently moved. They knew right where to go. The property sits back off the road behind a tree line and at night, it wouldn't be easy to see. To find where Kenneth lived in the dark, they had intimate knowledge of where to find him. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regi Posted October 24, 2018 #1000 Share Posted October 24, 2018 On 10/17/2018 at 11:49 AM, susieice said: So, if she only lived there for a month, the killer(s) would have had to be in pretty close contact with the family to know she recently moved. They knew right where to go. The property sits back off the road behind a tree line and at night, it wouldn't be easy to see. To find where Kenneth lived in the dark, they had intimate knowledge of where to find him. Right, and so surely, I think it's safe to assume that the killer or killer's knew the victims. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now