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Smacking Children, good or bad?


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14 minutes ago, Not Your Huckleberry said:

Ironically, despite what I said earlier, I'm very much in agreement with Merc, Lilly and others. If I had kids of my own, I highly doubt I'd ever spank them. 

Honestly, the number of times I was spanked as a kid could be counted on one hand with a couple fingers missing. I was a quiet, well behaved child. My father had this "look" that could burn holes in your soul, however. That's all it ever took for me. My fears weren't of physical punishment, but disappointing my father. Knowing I'd upset him was more painful than anything and it didn't take long for me to learn my lesson. 

RIP, dad. I love you. 

I used that tactic with my daughter. Still do.

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20 hours ago, hellwyr said:

Did I say I am against violence? I am against violence directed at children or innocent people or as a mean to control people ;).

 

 

Ohh, I see, so you're a violent hypocrite then.

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It would only be hypocrisy if I was per se against violence, which I am not. But whatever, your posting doesn't have much content anyway.

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I'm against using violence towards children and innocent folks as well. However, I am not against the use of violence towards ISIS or any criminals that are in the process of harming/killing people. If this makes me a hypocrite then so be it.

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Maybe I should put it into perspective, when I said I am not against violence per se, I mean that sometimes it is necessary to defend yourself or defend someone else by using violence. However, I am not that kind of person who supports death penalty or torture, because torture doesn't give you the truth it only gives you what you want to hear. And as far as death penalty goes, it is problematic if institutions use murder, but what's more there are a lot of innocent people who died cause they were wrongly convicted.

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I think that human children, like other young animals, sometimes learn the lesson best if a wee bit of physical action is involved. Kind of like no matter how many times you tell a kid not to touch the stove, it isn't till they touch it that they learn to not touch the stove.

I don't think the physical action needs to go beyond a wee bit of a shock or pain though.. I had a friend that when she had her baby, she started young. She would touch her babies hand with one finger when she said "no.". By the time the kid was three, all mom had to do was point and say no, and if really necessary tap the kids hand and say no- and the kid responded beautifully. Usually, lol- the kid was still three after all. This wasn't actual smacking- but rather a gentle physical action that brought home the point that mom meant it.

I think sometimes a swat on the butt with a bare hand is warranted. Sometimes children just don't learn or pay attention without that bit of physical action. However, that's the full stop as far as I'm concerned too- no need for hard striking, multiple striking, striking elsewhere than the butt, using objects to strike- none of that is acceptable IMO. Kids don't even need a hard swat to the butt- just a wee bit to get their full attention. I think if you start right off the bat with a gentle form of no with a physical action, like my friend did, it goes a very long way to not needing to get to the point of a swat on the butt.

 

Have I ever had kids? Nope. I have two beautiful sons via the man I married though. And by the time I met them at ages 6 and 8, they were old enough that they just needed verbal reprimands occasionally. Their mom and dad had already done a great job raising them- and they too were gentle with the raising, and still occasionally gave a swat on the butt till they were older toddlers.

I do come from a mixed abuse household. My dad abused us kids- and we never really learned anything about right and wrong, and what justified the smack or not. Utterly harsh and pointless. My mom was very much against physical punishment- but she too sometimes spanked us. She spanked me twice in my childhood- and I still recall exactly why it happened, and I never repeated that behavior ever again. They weren't harsh spankings, but since mom always talked to us and almost never spanked us- those two events were quite rememberable and lesson learned.

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Its important to teach young kids that they have to obey boundaries and if they don't there is a comeback they won't like. Smacking does that. Failure to do so could result in them being in and out of prison when older and going from job to job. Its called responsible parenting. I also think there is a lack of comeback for adults who abuse or cannot be bothered bringing up their kids properly. By the time its picked up upon the damage is often done to the youngster so if they commit crimes I would like to see the parents get the same sentence. It would provide the shock many toxic parents could do with receiving too.

 

 

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38 minutes ago, rashore said:

I think that human children, like other young animals, sometimes learn the lesson best if a wee bit of physical action is involved. Kind of like no matter how many times you tell a kid not to touch the stove, it isn't till they touch it that they learn to not touch the stove.

I don't think the physical action needs to go beyond a wee bit of a shock or pain though.. I had a friend that when she had her baby, she started young. She would touch her babies hand with one finger when she said "no.". By the time the kid was three, all mom had to do was point and say no, and if really necessary tap the kids hand and say no- and the kid responded beautifully. Usually, lol- the kid was still three after all. This wasn't actual smacking- but rather a gentle physical action that brought home the point that mom meant it.

I think sometimes a swat on the butt with a bare hand is warranted. Sometimes children just don't learn or pay attention without that bit of physical action. However, that's the full stop as far as I'm concerned too- no need for hard striking, multiple striking, striking elsewhere than the butt, using objects to strike- none of that is acceptable IMO. Kids don't even need a hard swat to the butt- just a wee bit to get their full attention. I think if you start right off the bat with a gentle form of no with a physical action, like my friend did, it goes a very long way to not needing to get to the point of a swat on the butt.

 

Have I ever had kids? Nope. I have two beautiful sons via the man I married though. And by the time I met them at ages 6 and 8, they were old enough that they just needed verbal reprimands occasionally. Their mom and dad had already done a great job raising them- and they too were gentle with the raising, and still occasionally gave a swat on the butt till they were older toddlers.

I do come from a mixed abuse household. My dad abused us kids- and we never really learned anything about right and wrong, and what justified the smack or not. Utterly harsh and pointless. My mom was very much against physical punishment- but she too sometimes spanked us. She spanked me twice in my childhood- and I still recall exactly why it happened, and I never repeated that behavior ever again. They weren't harsh spankings, but since mom always talked to us and almost never spanked us- those two events were quite rememberable and lesson learned.

o no he touched the stove we need to beat it into the child that it gets hurt ahhahah that is called hypocrisy.

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5 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

Its important to teach young kids that they have to obey boundaries and if they don't there is a comeback they won't like. Smacking does that. Failure to do so could result in them being in and out of prison when older and going from job to job. Its called responsible parenting. I also think there is a lack of comeback for adults who abuse or cannot be bothered bringing up their kids properly. By the time its picked up upon the damage is often done to the youngster so if they commit crimes I would like to see the parents get the same sentence. It would provide the shock many toxic parents could do with receiving too.

 

 

RM, how does hitting a kid keep them out of prison?   Are you saying that there is no way, other than corporal punishment, to teach a child right from wrong?   I'm here to tell you that physically hurting a child, other than maybe to protect them, like yanking them out of the way of a car,  is not the way to raise a civil person,  By hitting them you are teaching them that violence is the way to assert your will.  

Raising children is a full time job and part of that job is teaching them what is right and what is wrong and making them aware of how they are expected to behave and responsible for the repercussions of bad behavior.  All that can be done without ever hurting a child physically.   Kids need expectations set, a schedule, order in their life and to be loved unconditionally and they need repercussions for bad behavior but that never has to include hitting. 

I only have one kid and he is a good one, so maybe I am spoiled, but I see his peers and most of them are raised like mine so I think it works.  I don't know if you have a child or not but an adult is so immensely more powerful than a child that hitting them should be unthinkable.  You have to look at yourself and say is using my physical superiority the only way to deal with this person?  Isn't that a failure on the adult's part?

 

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3 minutes ago, hellwyr said:

o no he touched the stove we need to beat it into the child that it gets hurt ahhahah that is called hypocrisy.

I don't think that a child that touches a stove needs to be beaten. That wasn't even vaguely what I said, nor what I implied in any way, shape, or form. That is something you have completely fabricated in your own mind.

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Okay, I did not read it it accurately since I was in a hurry. I still do not agree with your point of view that a kid learns the lesson best if a wee bit of physical action is involved. It does not learn but it gets trained There is a difference:
 

If a kid touches a stove, assuming the child's intelligence level is high enough, will make sure that the stove is off the next time it touches it. However, if parents enforce their rules by using violence the kid only learns to be afraid of their parents. The stove did not teach or train the kid, the kid learned it on his or her own. Whereas, if a parent inflicts pain to enforce their rules, the child doesn't "learn", it gets "trained".

Edited by hellwyr
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if you want your child to have brain damage and hatred towards the parents go for it.

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THIS....is violence toward a child

Quote

 

Woman ex-soldier used electric shock dog collar to punish toddler and beat him so hard she broke a wooden spoon

    Army veteran Lanna Monaghan, 34, subjected child to campaign of abuse
    She used a dog training collar to inflict electric shocks to the boy's neck
    Also admitting biting and kicking the child because he 'pushed her buttons'
    Monaghan was remanded in custody at the High Court in Edinburgh


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3610282/Woman-ex-soldier-used-electric-shock-dog-collar-punish-toddler-beat-hard-broke-wooden-spoon.html#ixzz49mQFf8A5

 

 

Now....... a smacked bottom doesnt even compare...

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1 hour ago, Merc14 said:

RM, how does hitting a kid keep them out of prison?   Are you saying that there is no way, other than corporal punishment, to teach a child right from wrong?   I'm here to tell you that physically hurting a child, other than maybe to protect them, like yanking them out of the way of a car,  is not the way to raise a civil person,  By hitting them you are teaching them that violence is the way to assert your will.  

Raising children is a full time job and part of that job is teaching them what is right and what is wrong and making them aware of how they are expected to behave and responsible for the repercussions of bad behavior.  All that can be done without ever hurting a child physically.   Kids need expectations set, a schedule, order in their life and to be loved unconditionally and they need repercussions for bad behavior but that never has to include hitting. 

I only have one kid and he is a good one, so maybe I am spoiled, but I see his peers and most of them are raised like mine so I think it works.  I don't know if you have a child or not but an adult is so immensely more powerful than a child that hitting them should be unthinkable.  You have to look at yourself and say is using my physical superiority the only way to deal with this person?  Isn't that a failure on the adult's part?

 

A smack (not beating them black and blue) teaches them that there are consequences to their inappropriate behaviour. Taking away their television or grounding them (as examples) doesn't hurt them but is an attempt to correct bad behaviour using boredom. Boredom is less effective then a little pain and it isn't about the parent either its about whats best for the kid. You want to set a pattern of behaviour in their mind early on where they associate bad behaviour with something they don't like and want to avoid. Then you wire them up to have anxious feelings at the thought of breaking laws or social norms making them avoid doing so when older.

Smacking is not at odds with loving the child nor is it about the parent exacting some kind of revenge. It is a measured response to help the child's development so they turn out to be a normal adult. Children have been smacked for centuries and while anti-social behaviour has always existed to some degree it has only reached epidemic proportions over the last few decades. The only change I know off is the attempts to meddle in how parents discipline their children. Unless someone knows different?

And finally I will say there are assumptions under-pinning both your and my responses which, while not explicitly stated, implicitly imply we both believe that only one type of child exists. Each child has its own personality makeup so maybe your approach really is relevant to your child. But you shouldn't assume a smack isn't beneficial to other children which are poorly behaved.

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2 hours ago, rashore said:

I think that human children, like other young animals, sometimes learn the lesson best if a wee bit of physical action is involved. Kind of like no matter how many times you tell a kid not to touch the stove, it isn't till they touch it that they learn to not touch the stove.

Ironically, that is the ONE and only time I spanked my daughter's behind. One quick swift (not hard) swat to the behind. She kept reaching for the knobs on the stove in our apartment at the time and actually managed to turn the gas on. 

Since I had never spanked her before, she knew I was serious and never touched the stove again until it was time to teach her to actually use a stove. 

I used to get the wooden spoon as a child and then the belt as an adolescent so as a parent I believe that a spanking is reserved for very dangerous situations. Not for backtalk or for failing to put away their toys when told. There are definitely better ways to discipline a child for the small stuff like that. 

I was a FIRM parent with a loud voice. When I started counting down from three, my daughter knew I meant business and always listened to me. I was not the kind of parent that would 'ASK' my daughter if she wanted a time out... or asked what she wanted for dinner... I guided my daughter as a parent should. She is now grown and has a fantastic job with a very positive outlook on life. She still looks to me for approval on many things and I couldn't be any more proud of anyone than I am of my daughter. 

 

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43 minutes ago, BiffSplitkins said:

Ironically, that is the ONE and only time I spanked my daughter's behind. One quick swift (not hard) swat to the behind. She kept reaching for the knobs on the stove in our apartment at the time and actually managed to turn the gas on. 

Since I had never spanked her before, she knew I was serious and never touched the stove again until it was time to teach her to actually use a stove. 

I used to get the wooden spoon as a child and then the belt as an adolescent so as a parent I believe that a spanking is reserved for very dangerous situations. Not for backtalk or for failing to put away their toys when told. There are definitely better ways to discipline a child for the small stuff like that. 

I was a FIRM parent with a loud voice. When I started counting down from three, my daughter knew I meant business and always listened to me. I was not the kind of parent that would 'ASK' my daughter if she wanted a time out... or asked what she wanted for dinner... I guided my daughter as a parent should. She is now grown and has a fantastic job with a very positive outlook on life. She still looks to me for approval on many things and I couldn't be any more proud of anyone than I am of my daughter. 

 

I remember my mother being out on the apartment balcony when I was a kid and I closed the window-door behind her. I stood there laughing at her as it rained. She was getting angry and the more enraged she got the funnier it became. When I let her in I ran and hid in the toilet. She was telling me to come out. I refused saying she would smack me to which she responded that no she wouldn't. I remember saying 'right, what do you think I am stupid?' before laughing hysterically again. When I came out an hour later I got smacked and I laughed during that too. It was so funny.

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16 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

I remember my mother being out on the apartment balcony when I was a kid and I closed the window-door behind her. I stood there laughing at her as it rained. She was getting angry and the more enraged she got the funnier it became. When I let her in I ran and hid in the toilet. She was telling me to come out. I refused saying she would smack me to which she responded that no she wouldn't. I remember saying 'right, what do you think I am stupid?' before laughing hysterically again. When I came out an hour later I got smacked and I laughed during that too. It was so funny.

I'd of beat the hell out ya RM  :lol:  kidding.  I understand what you are saying in the other post above and I think we are both on the same page.  As I said, I have experience raising exactly one very well behaved and intelligent young son so I am hesitant to preach to anyone.  What worked for my kid may not work for another, I don't know.  I do know that what I thought raising a kid would be like in no way or fashion resembles what it actually is like and I took one look in those big brown eyes and knew I could never hit my child.  That is me, though, and I know some good parents who do smack their kids butts every now and again. 

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On 5/25/2016 at 5:34 AM, Lilly said:

I chose not to hit my children...doesn't mean I didn't punish them though. There were many times when certain toys remained on top of my refrigerator, the small chair that faced a blank corner in the living room was occupied, the Nintendo 64 was unplugged, certain parties or events were not attended. My kids learned about the consequences of their actions and personal responsibility. Consequently, both of them are now educated, employed, law abiding adults.

I was whipped with a belt once or twice and got a switching with a supple little limb - usually had to select it myself ;)  The occasions were rare and even at the time I don't recall feeling wronged.  I KNEW I'd gone too far against a rule and the rules around my house weren't capricious, even a kid understood WHY they were there.  Only once did I feel I was really beaten - abused.  My mom wailed on me with a limb from a very old rose bush.  I was bleeding when she finished.  I was about 9 or 10 and had decided that the median in the center of a very heavily truck traveled highway was the place where you stood while you waited to complete the trip to the other side of that busy highway.  She had looked up and seen me standing there with huge trucks flying past so fast that I was swaying in the wind.  Today a mother would go to jail for that but back then it was no one else's business.  A few hours later she and I had a long heart to heart - both crying.  I realized she knew she'd over done it but she was so petrified that she was going to literally see me die that she just lost it.

My daughter has felt the sting of a belt once.  She was caught lying when she was about 7 years old.  I never had a chance to decide on a proper punishment because my wife grabbed her and off to the bedroom they went.  My discipline for her consisted of explaining why she needed NOT to do a thing and if it happened again then I reinforced that message with some pain on the back of her hand.  That might sound like a cop out to parents who actually spank but I found that it worked quite effectively.    She just finished  Calculus 4 and is taking Linear Algebra over the summer break ;)  I guess she wasn't too traumatized.

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6 hours ago, Summerin1905 said:

if you want your child to have brain damage and hatred towards the parents go for it.

Not true. I don't hate my parents for popping my butt when I needed it. Humanity is a self domesticating creature. We train our children proper behavior. Some take it to easy, some take it to far, others find the right balance. Beating a child half to death over something is a terrible thing to do. Like someone being caned over and over again. Kid'll have serious issues.

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Just an observation, swatting a child on the bottom isn't the same thing as actually beating a child. I think the psychological damage comes from being beaten, not just mildly swatted. But, like the article I posted points out, spanking doesn't really serve to teach children the proper behavior or help them to develop self control/discipline.

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On 5/25/2016 at 11:06 AM, Grey Area said:

I will re-iterate physical violence committed against a child is abuse, regardless of the intent.  And I think Merc's point is well made, it takes a certain special kind of adult to inflict physical harm against their own child.

There are plenty of methods out there to deal with all sorts behaviours.  But this is the point, if you smacked an adult, there are a number of things that may happen, they might smack you back, they might call the police and have you arrested for ABH/assault, or they might make a phone call and have someone do it for them, see it is not acceptable to smack another adult, so why another child?  The only difference being the child is likely not going to be experienced enough or too scared to raise the consequences.

And for those who talk about corporal punishment, well it has been years since corporal punishment has been acceptable, even in prisons, and just because you were smacked as a child doesn't mean you need to perpetuate that legacy.  If you as a parent cannot come up with distraction techniques etc to manage behaviour then there is something wrong.

And I speak as a parent and as a Social Worker

As to the bolded - yes, my mother WAS a certain special kind of adult.  She had 3 children of which I was the "baby".  She was raising us as a single parent for reasons that don't matter here and dropping the hammer severely was a rare thing for her to do.  WHEN she did it was not for kicks or because she was somehow ill educated or emotionally broken.  It was because she had a very little time to handle all the responsibilities she'd taken on and she was terrified she'd screw up and one of us might REALLY get hurt or even killed.  This conversation pops up from time to time and we hash it out and it always seems to shake out into a really black and white starkness that does not exist in the real world where parents are trying to PARENT, not persecute physically or emotionally.  If a parent chooses another way and knows they can be sure the child will be kept from physical danger then I'm sure that using one's voice and endlessly explaining things to an unruly child might well result in that child growing emotionally and becoming a solid, stable human being.  But those who get so animated against the other route give me pause.  It's as though they feel superior to all those who choose simple, physical discipline - NOT abuse.  Those two seem to be overlaid  in the minds of many.  Life is hard but as the man said "it's equally hard for us all".  Some people shouldn't be parents and others could be better.  In the final analysis I think each adult who was raised with a switch or belt on their bottom would tell you a slightly different tale but it mostly ends with - "yeah, I love my mom/dad, they did the best they could.

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10 hours ago, Summerin1905 said:

if you want your child to have brain damage and hatred towards the parents go for it.

 

Another Stupid Post.jpg

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I got spanked at home and school. But I asked for it. It sent a message to behave or else. A lot of kids these days know they can

get away with their mischiefs if they don't have to deal with the consequences. Time out doesn't always do the trick.

After saying that, I don't think a parent should use a switch, belt or any blunt object to discipline. Just a firm hand across the buttocks.

Edited by Hawkin
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Wait a minute. How many of us in this thread have kids? I've got 3. I'm wondering something.....

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2 hours ago, XenoFish said:

Wait a minute. How many of us in this thread have kids? I've got 3. I'm wondering something.....

Good question.  Theoretical child raising is very different than real child raising and I say that because my "theories" about how to raise a child changed radically after I had one of my own.  How do you hit a child whose first instinct in a stressful or uncomfortable situation is to reach for your hand?

Edited by Merc14
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