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Smacking Children, good or bad?


seeder

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10 hours ago, Sakari said:

Not " spanking" ( yes, there is a big difference ).....Yes, I do. I do not just believe it, I know it.

 

Spanking is like milk: It does a body good — or at least a mind. No, this isn’t the conclusion of traditionalist parenting expert Dr. James Dobson but the finding of a study conducted by psychology professor Marjorie Gunnoe at Calvin College in Grand Rapids, Michigan. FoxNews.com reports on the story, writing, “According to the research, children spanked up to the age of 6 were likely as teenagers to perform better at school and were more likely to carry out volunteer work and to want to go to college than their peers who had never been physically disciplined.”

This may come as a relief to parents who don’t wish to spare the rod, but have been accosted with numerous studies stating just the opposite. But how do we reconcile these contradictory findings? Well, perhaps the answer is that the previous scientific studies weren’t very scientific. Fox points out that, in the past, such research was lacking because it was difficult in more traditional times to find subjects who had never been spanked. In contrast, Professor Gunnoe included 2600 such individuals in her study.

 

http://www.thenewamerican.com/culture/family/item/548-new-study-finds-spanking-is-good-for-kids

So you've found one piece of research that supports your view. Amongst (as your article says):

Quote

numerous studies stating just the opposite

You might have been better advised to cite the research only and not bothered with the article itself. For example, the claim that previous studies weren't scientific (unlike this one) is laughable. So they found children who'd never been spanked but earlier studies couldn't?

And then it goes on to say

Quote

It is ironic, too, given that those who promote this idea are generally evolutionists who believe man to simply be a highly evolved animal

and it has the gall to question the scientific validity of other studies. That is truly a bizarre statement.

 

However, I'll see your 2010 study and raise you one 2016 meta-analysis: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/04/160425143106.htm

Quote

The more children are spanked, the more likely they are to defy their parents and to experience increased anti-social behavior, aggression, mental health problems and cognitive difficulties, according to a new meta-analysis of 50 years of research on spanking.....

The study, published in this month's Journal of Family Psychology, looks at five decades of research involving over 160,000 children. The researchers say it is the most complete analysis to date of the outcomes associated with spanking, and more specific to the effects of spanking alone than previous papers, which included other types of physical punishment in their analyses.

 

As it goes, I'm ambivalent about the issue. I chose not to physically discipline my kids and have had no cause to regret this. I don't really have an issue with anybody who gives theirs a smack from time to time. But I fully reject your "knowledge" that not smacking children will produce worse outcomes.

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4 hours ago, Arbenol said:

So you've found one piece of research that supports your view. Amongst (as your article says):

 

Actually, 99.9% of my knowing is from life experience. Living, experiencing,  and seeing, not reading.

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2 hours ago, Sakari said:

Actually, 99.9% of my knowing is from life experience. Living, experiencing,  and seeing, not reading.

Actually, it appears you have nothing more to add to support your opinion. An opinion, I might add, that ignorantly insults many successful parents.

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On ‎5‎/‎31‎/‎2016 at 1:15 AM, Arbenol said:

Absolutely. You're right

America, like most similar nations, has seen a significant decrease in violence.

Pussies!

 

Not really. We just export a larger percentage overseas.

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7 hours ago, Arbenol said:

So you've found one piece of research that supports your view. Amongst (as your article says):

You might have been better advised to cite the research only and not bothered with the article itself. For example, the claim that previous studies weren't scientific (unlike this one) is laughable. So they found children who'd never been spanked but earlier studies couldn't?

And then it goes on to say

and it has the gall to question the scientific validity of other studies. That is truly a bizarre statement.

 

However, I'll see your 2010 study and raise you one 2016 meta-analysis: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/04/160425143106.htm

As it goes, I'm ambivalent about the issue. I chose not to physically discipline my kids and have had no cause to regret this. I don't really have an issue with anybody who gives theirs a smack from time to time. But I fully reject your "knowledge" that not smacking children will produce worse outcomes.

Doing either way poorly often produces horrible results. I think you both might agree on that. Doing an excellent job either way more often than not produces positive results, with the caveat there are always exceptions to any rule.

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1 hour ago, Arbenol said:

Actually, it appears you have nothing more to add to support your opinion. An opinion, I might add, that ignorantly insults many successful parents.

Oh, I have plenty. Just not sure it is worth my time. Am I going, or do I want to change your opinion?......No

 

I will start with just one of many personal stories of mine. This one on " no spanking allowed "

 

2002 - Good friends 14 year old son was talking back big time. John told his son " your not to old to put over my knee".......

His son laughed.....So, John did it, 2 smacks to the ass. One missed a bit.

His son as shocked, then embarrassed. He rode his bike to the police station and showed them the hand print.........

John was arrested ( his Son did not mean for this much trouble ) and charged. He now has a felony, and very tough time finding a job. He lost his job when it came out why he missed work,

 

What this has to do with this?......HIs son, and many kids lost respect. To the point they know they can not be touched.

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6 hours ago, Sakari said:

Oh, I have plenty. Just not sure it is worth my time. Am I going, or do I want to change your opinion?......No

 

I will start with just one of many personal stories of mine. This one on " no spanking allowed "

 

2002 - Good friends 14 year old son was talking back big time. John told his son " your not to old to put over my knee".......

His son laughed.....So, John did it, 2 smacks to the ass. One missed a bit.

His son as shocked, then embarrassed. He rode his bike to the police station and showed them the hand print.........

John was arrested ( his Son did not mean for this much trouble ) and charged. He now has a felony, and very tough time finding a job. He lost his job when it came out why he missed work,

 

What this has to do with this?......HIs son, and many kids lost respect. To the point they know they can not be touched.

Tried to spank a 14 year old? LOL

He's just as likely to end up over his son's knee and have a red bottom.

ETA. I don't support the criminalisation of parents who smack (I've already made it clear that I don't condemn them). But if you leave a mark, you've gone too far. If you hit an adult and leave a mark, you'll be charged with assault.

Remember what our disagreement is. Your story (as entertaining as it is) is irrelevant to it.

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6 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

Doing either way poorly often produces horrible results. I think you both might agree on that. Doing an excellent job either way more often than not produces positive results, with the caveat there are always exceptions to any rule.

Well said, sir!

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8 hours ago, Sakari said:

Oh, I have plenty. Just not sure it is worth my time. Am I going, or do I want to change your opinion?......No

 

I will start with just one of many personal stories of mine. This one on " no spanking allowed "

 

2002 - Good friends 14 year old son was talking back big time. John told his son " your not to old to put over my knee".......

His son laughed.....So, John did it, 2 smacks to the ass. One missed a bit.

His son as shocked, then embarrassed. He rode his bike to the police station and showed them the hand print.........

John was arrested ( his Son did not mean for this much trouble ) and charged. He now has a felony, and very tough time finding a job. He lost his job when it came out why he missed work,

 

What this has to do with this?......HIs son, and many kids lost respect. To the point they know they can not be touched.

In what state is it a felony to spank your kid? No offense, but I have to think there's a little more to the story than that.:unsure:

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I bet THIS kid would have PREFERRED a slapped bottom, rather than, being abandoned in Bear infested woods by his parents  (as a punishment)
 

Quote


'We have done an unforgivable thing', say Japanese parents who abandoned son in woods
THE Japanese parents who abandoned their son in bear-infested woods 'as punishment' have said they have "done an unforgivable thing" as the military have joined in the franctic search.

The parents abandoned their seven-year-old son Yamota Tanooka in a dense northern forest because they say he was being naughty and throwing stones at people and cars.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/675998/Japanese-parents-abandoned-son-Hokkaido-woods-say-unforgiveable

 

 

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2 minutes ago, seeder said:

I bet THIS kid would have PREFERRED a slapped bottom, rather than, being abandoned in Bear infested woods by his parents  (as a punishment)
 

 

Must have gotten caught watching a wedding procession of Foxes.

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7 hours ago, seeder said:

I bet THIS kid would have PREFERRED a slapped bottom, rather than, being abandoned in Bear infested woods by his parents  (as a punishment)
 

 

I cant help but feel that this has more to it.Who knows if they really did abandon the child or something more sinister occurred.Fingers crossed im wrong and the child is found.

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15 hours ago, Sakari said:

Oh, I have plenty. Just not sure it is worth my time. Am I going, or do I want to change your opinion?......No

 

I will start with just one of many personal stories of mine. This one on " no spanking allowed "

 

2002 - Good friends 14 year old son was talking back big time. John told his son " your not to old to put over my knee".......

His son laughed.....So, John did it, 2 smacks to the ass. One missed a bit.

His son as shocked, then embarrassed. He rode his bike to the police station and showed them the hand print.........

John was arrested ( his Son did not mean for this much trouble ) and charged. He now has a felony, and very tough time finding a job. He lost his job when it came out why he missed work,

 

What this has to do with this?......HIs son, and many kids lost respect. To the point they know they can not be touched.

Doubtless that kid would have gone to the police if his dad took his phone away, or refused to allow him to eat a meal. Kids are so entitled these days. 

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7 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

In what state is it a felony to spank your kid? No offense, but I have to think there's a little more to the story than that.:unsure:

Probably they called it felony assault. Intent to do harm on purpose.

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11 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

In what state is it a felony to spank your kid? No offense, but I have to think there's a little more to the story than that.:unsure:

The applicable statute is NRS 200.508. Any person who causes a child to suffer physical pain or mental suffering as a result of “abuse or neglect,” can be exposed to penalties ranging from a gross misdemeanor to a category A felony, with the possibility of life imprisonment.

Nevada....Nothing more to the story.

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14 hours ago, Arbenol said:

Tried to spank a 14 year old? LOL

He's just as likely to end up over his son's knee and have a red bottom.

ETA. I don't support the criminalisation of parents who smack (I've already made it clear that I don't condemn them). But if you leave a mark, you've gone too far. If you hit an adult and leave a mark, you'll be charged with assault.

Remember what our disagreement is. Your story (as entertaining as it is) is irrelevant to it.

It is irrelevant to you.

It shows kids ( can ) take advantage of the " you can't touch me " attitude.

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33 minutes ago, Sakari said:

It is irrelevant to you.

It shows kids ( can ) take advantage of the " you can't touch me " attitude.

 

Just like I said earlier....DO WATCH this short skit on kids AND PUNISHMENT.....and Childline....watch - its only 5 mins....and HUGELY relevant to the topic

 

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18 minutes ago, seeder said:

 

Just like I said earlier....DO WATCH this shirt skit on kids AND PUNISHMENT.....and Childline....watch - its only 5 mins....and HUGELY relevant to the topic

 

 

 

So true...

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1 hour ago, Sakari said:

It is irrelevant to you.

It shows kids ( can ) take advantage of the " you can't touch me " attitude.

No. Irrelevant to our discussion specifically.

How does that support your opinion that kids who aren't smacked will likely turn out worse than those who are? Had this kid never been smacked before?

 

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8 hours ago, Arbenol said:

No. Irrelevant to our discussion specifically.

How does that support your opinion that kids who aren't smacked will likely turn out worse than those who are? Had this kid never been smacked before?

 

No he had not.....And, it is relevant as I explained all ready.

 

And, as said, I have about 34 years of adult life lessons to know that spanking is a good thing. ( when needed )

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I think the simplest test of whether or not a spank will wrk is asking "will I be as traumatised as my child?" if the answer is "yes" then it'll probably be effective. If the answer is "no" than better not.

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37 minutes ago, Sakari said:

No he had not.....And, it is relevant as I explained all ready.

 

And, as said, I have about 34 years of adult life lessons to know that spanking is a good thing. ( when needed )

Good, so you do agree with me.

Your caveat of "when needed" is correct. Some parents need to smack to maintain discipline and safety. Others do not. So, it's incorrect to state that those parents who don't smack will produce worse outcomes for society. Smacking or not smacking, it's all down to the parents.

As for your friend. If he'd never used physical discipline before with his son, why did he think it would work on a 14 year old receiving it for the first time? I'd say his choice to smack had adverse outcomes for his entire family and illustrates the point that it's about the parents. 

 

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On 02/06/2016 at 3:09 AM, TopToffee said:

I cant help but feel that this has more to it.Who knows if they really did abandon the child or something more sinister occurred.Fingers crossed im wrong and the child is found.

Ignore.Sprog has been found.All thats needed now is the parents being given a good slap with a haddock.

Edited by TopToffee
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4 hours ago, Arbenol said:

Good, so you do agree with me.

Your caveat of "when needed" is correct. Some parents need to smack to maintain discipline and safety. Others do not. So, it's incorrect to state that those parents who don't smack will produce worse outcomes for society. Smacking or not smacking, it's all down to the parents.

As for your friend. If he'd never used physical discipline before with his son, why did he think it would work on a 14 year old receiving it for the first time? I'd say his choice to smack had adverse outcomes for his entire family and illustrates the point that it's about the parents. 

 

Obviously, he didn't just "spank" the fourteen year old teenager who had never been spanked. He had to man handle him to get him into that position. That struggle in itself would have left signs on his body, other than the "handprint". It's not illegal to spank your child in Nevada, but felonious assault of a minor is, especially If it turns out he was a non custodial parent.

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9 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

Obviously, he didn't just "spank" the fourteen year old teenager who had never been spanked. He had to man handle him to get him into that position. That struggle in itself would have left signs on his body, other than the "handprint". It's not illegal to spank your child in Nevada, but felonious assault of a minor is, especially If it turns out he was a non custodial parent.

He did not man handle him. It was actually funny. His son laughed at first, but became embarrassed, and thought going to the police would be a good payback.

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