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firewilson

the Black Dahlia Homicide

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firewilson

My name is Fire, and I've studied the Elizabeth Short case for many years. Hopefully, some of the information I can share may be more to add to the muddled evidence, and or suppositions which are supported by logic. The only sources available to me, of course, were from the written information about the case, I've nothing tangible, myself, as proof. But, for example; in the book by John Gilmore, titled, " Severed", Mr. Gilmore is writing about  cassette tapes in which his favorite suspect for the murder of Beth Short, is confessed to, by Arnold Smith, or Jack Wilson, (some of the aka's the suspect who's real name was Grover Loving Junior), well, in the tapes, he states that he was present, but the murder of the Dahlia, was committed by a " transvestite", named, Morrison, who is from San Francisco.  The book goes on to say that the F.B.I., and the L.A.P.D. and other law enforcement was unable to locate this, " Morrison". 

Smith, made this confession tape, according to the book, in the 1970's, about thirty years after the homicide,at the time when Jigsaw John, a famous detective was in the downtown L.A..P.D. At any rate, the book claims that nobody at all knows where or who Morrison is. Of course, Smith, is blaming the crime on another person. But is the person just fantasy? 

The owner of the Mocambo  night club, had been robbed,a few days prior to the Dahlia's murder. The method of robbery was like that of  the days of the old west train robbery, they were threatened at the point of a gun by guys who took their money and jewelry. One of the robbers was a tall, thin, man, with a limp. Smith had a limp. Morrison is the name of the owner of the Mocambo.

Edited by Still Waters
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firewilson

it's me again. I'll get back and post again, after I draw a couple of things, such as how she was tied up, and which direction the car was facing when the body was placed in the Norton Lot, after she was killed and mutilated. things like that, and a bit more. nice of you to extend the welcome to join. I was actually in the house behind the Florentine Gardens, where Elizabeth stayed for awhile, in Hollywood. It belonged to Mark Hansen, the owner of the Gardens, in the 1940s. As a matter of fact, after I charge my old cellphone, I have this picture I took of the insurance company that drew the blue print of the streets back then. It has the house in the blueprint, the place was torn down after the 1970s. till next time. ciao. 

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firewilson

I believe the Georgette Bauerdorff homicide and the Jean French homicide were also the work of the same individual. That would be the suspect in the book, " Severed". The motive? The killer was a sexual sadist, for one thing, but as far as what took place, I think, just think, that is, that Jack Smith, Al Wilson, which ever aka you want to call him, slugged her in the face, as the Gilmore book describes, when Beth attempted to leave the room over by Trinity in the house numbers around 39th st, in Los Angeles. I am old enough to have also been in a house that was there, over by U.S.C., but was torn down when Staples Center was built. The tub that Beth was in, is one of those claw foot free standing types with the curtain rod just from the ceiling, (i'll draw it, as i said). When she was hit in the face, she fell head first onto the open sofa bed, and her face was caught in the springs, on the part of the bed where the metal joint bends to open and close the bed. I think that the wound in her temple was caused by that joint, and this was internally bleeding, making her, " out of it", woozy, and so forth. If you look with the zoom on her face, she has tiny round indentations that look sort of like the letter H. It seems to me possible, as these are very evenly spaced, perhaps to be the coils that wind around the grid of the springs which hold the mattress. Her mouth was ripped from those springs,  perhaps. 

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firewilson

want to know why it was the lot on 39th and Norton where the killer posed her body? here is what I think, of course it is simply conjecture, i have no way to confirm it. 

The lot was owned by the mother of a young woman named Barbara Bailey, (if I recall the name properly), Beth's sister, Virginia Short, sang opera with Barbara, i don't know the details about the opera singing, if it was professional, or whatever. Anyhow, Virginia, (older sister to Elizabeth), was invited to Barbara's wedding in Dr. Bailey's house, which was a couple of blocks away from 39th and Norton. 

But I'm not saying that Dr. Bailey was the killer, some folks think he was, but I don't. We have to read the city editor of the Los Angeles Times, Larry Harnisch's book, when he finishes writing it, "Stairway to Heaven", but for now.... 

Elizabeth Short used to, " park, neck", with guys in their cars. Back then, young people did a lot of kissing and loving in their cars. The police would drive by and stop to ask questions, etc. The relationship was different back then. Lovers lane though, was not appreciated by the law. So to have an excuse, an alibi to be sitting in a car with a man in a dark place, where nobody was around, (vacant lots), Beth could tell any police that came by with questions, that she was just showing the lot owned by her friend Barbara's mother, Ruth Bailey. see what I mean? different way to look at the info. 

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firewilson

one more thing for today. The killer was a fan of Betty Page, the model, stripper. Elizabeth Short also called herself Betty. Betty Page modeled with the ropes around her, bondage, and the two, Betty Short, and Betty Page looked very similar. See you soon, and I'll post the drawings. 

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Antilles

I agree with you about Georgette Bauderdorf. She and BD moved in the same circles (well, at least they knew each other from their work at the canteen). Dr Bailey was an old, sick man when BD was murdered. He wasn't capable of slinging her out of a car onto the spare block at Norton. I look forward to seeing your drawings.

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firewilson

did i mention to those who read the book, " severed", by john gilmore, that i know who the individual, "morrison", is? Jack Wilson or Arnold Smith, whichever aka you prefer, claimed that morrison was the killer. The book says the FBI and the LAPD were not able to locate morrison. i don't believe that. Anyhow, Morrison was the owner of the Mocambo  restaurant. i'd like to know the disposition of the fingerprints on the light bulb unscrewed in front of Georgette Bauerdorff's door, because the prints can be compared with Jack Wilsons. He had an extensive record, and prints on the glass bulb could be copied, even back in 1946 or so. I'm personally convinced the same person killed both women. shouldn't be, bur the gag in the mouth was part of it. Beth Short was no doubt gagged with her panties, that's the logical reasoning for her having feces in her stomach, (found in the autopsy). there are other similarities, cannot be denied. The bath tub, the water. the cleanup attempt in Bauerdorff''s place. the killer didn't just kill and run. in both crimes he staged the scene, only i think he got scared off in the bauerdorff murder. Another thing, the date of the bauerdorff murder. it was some sort of holiday, if i remember what i read correctly. A federal sort of holiday, when people in a lot of professions have the day off. Not all professions, though, and this may have some bearing when narrowing down suspects. Like if Jack Wilson worked at the V.A. hospital in Westwood, he could have had a day off, maybe. it's too late to gather much useful information, so many years after the crime. Georgettes father didn't want publicity and he had enough big money and connections to keep the murder as quiet as he possibly could. it wouldn't have made much difference by playing it up in the newspapers, and it was also a matter of dignity but mainly scandals are not good for wealthy people like george bauerdorff. she was named after her father. oh, wilson hated morrison a lot. i think he was really jealous of him. Jack robbed the Mocambo a couple of weeks or so, before beth was killed. The holiday of the bauerdorff murder? i think it was Columbus day. 

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GlitterRose

That's a really creepy case. 

I still think it had something to do with the surrealist art scene. There's just too much about the way she was displayed that screams of it. 

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Sweetpumper

Black Dahlia killer unmasked: Notorious case of aspiring starlet who was cut in half and had 'Joker smile' carved into her face is finally solved, despite 'cover-up by LAPD'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5012767/Black-Dahlia-killer-revealed-new-book.html#ixzz4wXlVVrBj 
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

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firewilson

Hello again, years later. I didn't say too much, if anything about Steve Hodel, who wrote a couple of books about the Elizabeth Short homicide. Steve is a retired detective, who had a long career with the LAPD and solved countless homicides. I cannot presume to walk in this gentleman's footsteps. Next to Steve, I am a clown. It's just that I simply disagree with him about his father, the late Dr. George Hodel, being the killer of the Black dahlia.the photo in his dad's album, that Steve says is Betty Short, because of some beauty spots on her face, well, I don't think it's enough to convince me. As a matter of fact, the photo appears to be a Filipino lady. Betty was Caucasian. Also, in Steve's first book, there is a photo of halves of the deceased body and in my opinion, it looks like Steve evaluated the two sections incorrectly. More, is there is no proof, the Dr. ever met Ms.Short.

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the13bats

 

in most cases the cynic in me takes over whenever someone writes a book just for attention and profit claiming their whoever was whoever, they have lots of filler, fluff and smoke but seldom any good evidence and never proof.

many times cats like yourself come up with the best ideas.

while they dont like gory pics here it would be nice for you to post a known pic of short and the lady in the pic you have doubts is her, let us see what we think,

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Vincennes
8 hours ago, the13bats said:

 

in most cases the cynic in me takes over whenever someone writes a book just for attention and profit claiming their whoever was whoever, they have lots of filler, fluff and smoke but seldom any good evidence and never proof.

many times cats like yourself come up with the best ideas.

while they dont like gory pics here it would be nice for you to post a known pic of short and the lady in the pic you have doubts is her, let us see what we think,

Are you making a judgment here without having read Hodel's book ?  I would say you're possibly right about his books AFTER the first one but I really liked his first book.  Not only does his theory seem very solid but the history he gives about old Hollywood is fascinating.  It's worth the read just for that alone.  I'll tell you one thing, after reading his book, I never watched a John Houston movie again.  

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susieice

I read Hodel's book too. If I remember right, the doctor was a lot strange with his daughter also. Hodel lays out a case that shows his father had all the opportunity. I've wondered about John Houston ever since too Vincennes. Old Hollywood director likes snuff films. Wouldn't surprise me if some new Hollywood directors do too.

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pixiii
28 minutes ago, susieice said:

I read Hodel's book too. If I remember right, the doctor was a lot strange with his daughter also. Hodel lays out a case that shows his father had all the opportunity. I've wondered about John Houston ever since too Vincennes. Old Hollywood director likes snuff films. Wouldn't surprise me if some new Hollywood directors do too.

After what we know now, I don't think anything would surprise me.  It would've been a lot easier to cover-up back then than it is now.  This and the Zodiac Killer stories fascinate me.  

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the13bats
On 7/20/2019 at 9:21 AM, Vincennes said:

Are you making a judgment here without having read Hodel's book ?  I would say you're possibly right about his books AFTER the first one but I really liked his first book.  Not only does his theory seem very solid but the history he gives about old Hollywood is fascinating.  It's worth the read just for that alone.  I'll tell you one thing, after reading his book, I never watched a John Houston movie again.  

 

why do i question book writers in these cases?

check out the part about janice Knowlton

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Dahlia_suspects

 

i do my own homework my own thinking, Steve Hodel is a wonderful writer and his work can draw a person in, seems his idea that his dad was the killer was planted when he finds a couple pictures of girls he thought looked like short, but one of the girls came forward the other never did but photo analysis shows not surprisingly what most people can see right off, the unknown girl isnt Short.

Hodel not to be swayed said oh well, doesnt matter and weaved a picture of a very twisted man his father, who got away with raping his sister and other crimes perhaps even murder,

but Shorts? i never bought it that short a very young party girl of the 40s drinking and tattooed in a time few men outside the navy, sideshows or prisons wore tats loved to show off her rose on her thigh, she was arrested for underage drinking and shacked up and mooched her way, no, i do not believe she didnt put out, a full prostitute? call girl? i have no idea but the guys who supported her got something besides arrogant arm candy.

and that would likely mean STDs prrhaps pregnancies and what do you know good old dr hodel allegly could treat your std and give you an abortion, the latter illegal yet popular back then, could he have met short? sure, any man alive around her could have, a lot did.

then things start getting weak and thin for me, seems the whole case was based and formed from pictures of short that weren't, but my biggest reason for getting a great distance from Steve Hodel and his work was when he then decided not only did demented dad kill, his Secretary, other women and short get ready....here it comes...dad was also the zodiac, yep, with a book about it and everything.

What next, dad was dan cooper? and maybe Keyser Söze too, no, that was Verbal Kint, fictinal which is now where i have to place Steve Hodels work for now, a wonderful mix of some very morbid real life tired together with speculation and perhaps delusions, did his dad kill short? was his dad zodiac? i dont see the proof.

Suspects,

i see just as much if not more in Leslie Dillon to being the killer.

Shorts killer was a very sick soul, he wasnt some Patrick Bateman doing some test run to see what he liked he had angry and hatred, it was personal to him he was saying how to you like this, how do you like that?  perhaps a guy rejected by short for being a poor unattractive bell hop no body, perhaps he cut a smile saying whose laughing now?

i can speculate too.

Dillon admitted he was a sick sadist and knew things only the killer would know, and he had people that kept hin out of the grey bar hotel.

but that was a very long time ago during a huge mess of lapd corruption so its really hard to get a fact about any of it,

i have no clue who killed short, and i dont know how but i believe it just might be solved.

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Vincennes
On ‎7‎/‎23‎/‎2019 at 12:56 AM, the13bats said:

Hodel not to be swayed said oh well, doesnt matter and weaved a picture of a very twisted man his father, who got away with raping his sister and other crimes perhaps even murder,

I stand by what I said.  I found Hodel's theory of his father as the killer pretty darn interesting and believable .  While I understand you have another theory that you feel is better, I think you dismiss the fact that Dr. Hodel was, in fact, one of the top suspects of LE at the time. 

You also dismiss what I also said that Hodel's personal remembrances of old Hollywood.  That along with his LE background make it not only a fascinating read but I felt strengthened his ability to judge what all these characters were capable of.  

 

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the13bats

i base my opinions on more than one guys book.

 

 

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Vincennes
On ‎7‎/‎22‎/‎2019 at 9:51 PM, susieice said:

I read Hodel's book too. If I remember right, the doctor was a lot strange with his daughter also. Hodel lays out a case that shows his father had all the opportunity. I've wondered about John Houston ever since too Vincennes. Old Hollywood director likes snuff films. Wouldn't surprise me if some new Hollywood directors do too.

What also got to me about Houston was that he had attended parties at the house where it sounded like the daughter had been passed around for entertainment.   Makes you wonder what Angelica's home life growing up was like, doesn't it ?  

Also, I never thought of Michelle Pfeifer as the heroic type but I was so impressed with her being brave enough to not only testify for the girl but also continue to stand by her.  That had to be an incredibly hard thing to do in that town and who she was up against.  

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