danielost Posted June 2, 2016 #76 Share Posted June 2, 2016 21 hours ago, bmk1245 said: How did Poland-Britain treaty worked out back in 1939? Where were frog eaters when Pollacks were fighting on two fronts? they were fighting the battle of England. they won that battle. then with the usa's help defeated hitler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
questionmark Posted June 2, 2016 #77 Share Posted June 2, 2016 1 minute ago, danielost said: they were fighting the battle of England. they won that battle. then with the usa's help defeated hitler. By the time of the battle of England Stalin and Adolf had already divided Poland among them, Adolf Had occupied Holland Denmark and Norway, Luxembourg and Belgium and had defeated France. We are talking a year later. The question is: had the British and the French intervened immediately against Germany could Stalin have taken Poland alone and occupied the Baltic countries? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevewinn Posted June 2, 2016 #78 Share Posted June 2, 2016 HMS Ocean deploys for NATO exercise in Baltic Sea Fleet Flagship HMS Ocean has deployed to take part in a huge multinational NATO exercise in the Baltic Sea. BALTOPS is an annual exercise which tests the 16 allied and partner maritime nations taking part. The helicopter carrier will be taking part in one of the largest exercises in northern Europe, which aims to assure nations of NATO’s commitment to the security and stability of the region. The 21,000 tonne vessel is an amphibious assault ship and landing platform helicopter. She is designed to support amphibious landing operations and to support the staff of Commander UK Amphibious Force and Commander UK Landing Force. Secretary of State for Defence, Michael Fallon said the move “sends a strong message to our enemies that we are ready to respond to any threat, and defend our allies”. The Navy is also deploying three mine sweepers with around 130 personnel for NATO operations in the Baltic Sea, North Atlantic, North Sea and the Mediterranean Sea. HMS Ocean became the Royal Navy Fleet Flagship in June 2015. NATO and allied vessels underway during ‘BALTOPS 2015’ in the Baltic Sea BALTOPS has run for more than 40 years and includes anti-air, anti-surface, anti-submarine and mine countermeasures warfare as well as amphibious landings. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeder Posted June 2, 2016 Author #79 Share Posted June 2, 2016 as we do steve.....so does he... Im tempted to believe things are really warming up... Quote Putin risks fresh Nato rift as Russian army announces plans for THOUSANDS of summer drills RUSSIA'S military has announced plans for more than 2,000 air, sea and land exercises over the summer, in an attempt to discourage Nato from further build-ups of troops in eastern Europe. http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/676263/Russian-military-latest-Putin-armed-forces-plan-2000-summer-exercises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badeskov Posted June 2, 2016 #80 Share Posted June 2, 2016 On 6/1/2016 at 1:29 PM, questionmark said: The Fulda gap is old news. The closest the Russian have any forces to it is about 600 miles away (Kaliningrad), and given how small their territory is there a massive buildup would not go unnoticed. The Polish, Ukrainians, Romanian and the Baltics would be the first target to get to central Europe. And that means that, to the contrary of the cold war, Western Europe would have days of warning to get their act together. The situation has changed. A lot. I certainly agree with you, the point I was trying to make (not very successfully) was that in my honest opinion the Russians would by far prefer the non-nuclear option and go for the conventional invasion approach unless they themselves are threatened on their very existence as a nation. Cheers, Badeskov 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imrunningthismonkeyfarm Posted June 2, 2016 #81 Share Posted June 2, 2016 20 minutes ago, badeskov said: I certainly agree with you, the point I was trying to make (not very successfully) was that in my honest opinion the Russians would by far prefer the non-nuclear option and go for the conventional invasion approach unless they themselves are threatened on their very existence as a nation. Cheers, Badeskov I have seen Putin on TV saying he wouldn't fight a ground war because nato's too strong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badeskov Posted June 2, 2016 #82 Share Posted June 2, 2016 1 minute ago, Somethings Not Right said: I have seen Putin on TV saying he wouldn't fight a ground war because nato's too strong Which only makes his posturing even more explainable. Cheers, Badeskov 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imrunningthismonkeyfarm Posted June 2, 2016 #83 Share Posted June 2, 2016 (edited) I think there will be a war. you can't have a mass build up of warships and missiles without (sometimes forced) accidents. And we all know where accidents can lead. I reckon there's an agenda none of us have thought of.. I mean.. Who would have thought the world would be this bad 20 years ago? many people have been saying a wars coming for years now.. Every year someone says next year but sooner or later someone's gonna be right cheers Edited June 2, 2016 by Somethings Not Right To add cheers 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Noteverythingisaconspiracy Posted June 2, 2016 #84 Share Posted June 2, 2016 26 minutes ago, Somethings Not Right said: I think there will be a war. you can't have a mass build up of warships and missiles without (sometimes forced) accidents. And we all know where accidents can lead. I reckon there's an agenda none of us have thought of.. I mean.. Who would have thought the world would be this bad 20 years ago? many people have been saying a wars coming for years now.. Every year someone says next year but sooner or later someone's gonna be right cheers This was basically the situation throughout the cold war, but it never came to actual war then. So why is it so much more likely to happen now ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hammerclaw Posted June 2, 2016 #85 Share Posted June 2, 2016 Si vis pacem para bellum--if you want peace, prepare for war. Si vis pacem para pactum--If you want peace, enforce the peace. So the bad guys don't the idea that-- Si vis pacem fac bellum--If you want peace make war-- --is a better slogan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppi Posted June 2, 2016 #86 Share Posted June 2, 2016 " Sometimes I wonder why America seems to hate Russia so much..... yet is happy to use Russian rockets " Is this really a thing... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hammerclaw Posted June 3, 2016 #87 Share Posted June 3, 2016 15 minutes ago, Poppi said: " Sometimes I wonder why America seems to hate Russia so much..... yet is happy to use Russian rockets " Is this really a thing... Stalin and Stalinism, post war. Not so much hate as paranoia over a dictator, who was responsible for the deaths of more Russians than Hitler, having the bomb. The Russians, of course a traditionally paranoid people, were and still are quite irrational about anything we do. Both countries are quite aware the other is more than prepared to give them a dose of their own medicine. Right now, the West is reaping the fruits of celebrating the fall of the Soviet Union as a victory, and treating Russia as a vanquished adversary, with condescension and contempt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeder Posted June 3, 2016 Author #88 Share Posted June 3, 2016 2 hours ago, Poppi said: " Sometimes I wonder why America seems to hate Russia so much..... yet is happy to use Russian rockets " Is this really a thing... Yes its true of course, the USA cant get into space otherwise... Quote US Too Dependent on Russian Rocket Engines, Experts Tell Lawmakers - See more at: http://www.space.com/26551-us-military-launches-russian-rocket-engines.html#sthash.2zMKx0wZ.dpuf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeder Posted June 3, 2016 Author #89 Share Posted June 3, 2016 (edited) Quote Is the hype real? In the following excerpt from Going Underground, Afshin Rattansi interviews the head of Britain’s Foreign Affairs Committee on the state of British-Russian relations, Crispin Blunt. Blunt believes the state of relations between the two nations is in a ‘dangerous place’, and does not appear to rule out the possibility of open war between them. While some believe NATO and Russia are on a collision course thanks to Russian actions, it can easily be seen that the real aggressor here is actually NATO. http://21stcenturywire.com/2016/05/31/nuclear-hype-russian-british-relations-are-in-dangerous-place/ Going Underground: UK's Foreign Affairs Committee Chair warns of nuclear war with Russia Edited June 3, 2016 by seeder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imrunningthismonkeyfarm Posted June 3, 2016 #90 Share Posted June 3, 2016 9 hours ago, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said: This was basically the situation throughout the cold war, but it never came to actual war then. So why is it so much more likely to happen now ? Much more likely? You added that not me. Do you realise how close the yanks and the ruskies came to war last time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Noteverythingisaconspiracy Posted June 3, 2016 #91 Share Posted June 3, 2016 10 minutes ago, Somethings Not Right said: Much more likely? You added that not me. Do you realise how close the yanks and the ruskies came to war last time? It's hard for me to answer that question because I don't know what "last time" you are refering to ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imrunningthismonkeyfarm Posted June 3, 2016 #92 Share Posted June 3, 2016 39 minutes ago, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said: It's hard for me to answer that question because I don't know what "last time" you are refering to ? Well that's the end of the conversation then isn't it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
questionmark Posted June 3, 2016 #93 Share Posted June 3, 2016 13 hours ago, badeskov said: I certainly agree with you, the point I was trying to make (not very successfully) was that in my honest opinion the Russians would by far prefer the non-nuclear option and go for the conventional invasion approach unless they themselves are threatened on their very existence as a nation. Cheers, Badeskov Naturally, you don't fight wars for the hell of it. You either think you might gain something or you don't do it (well, except maybe if you are a neocon) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Noteverythingisaconspiracy Posted June 4, 2016 #94 Share Posted June 4, 2016 On 3/6/2016 at 0:15 PM, Somethings Not Right said: Well that's the end of the conversation then isn't it. I you don't want to answer my question, I guess you are right in saying that this is the end of the "conversation". On 3/6/2016 at 11:20 AM, Somethings Not Right said: Do you realise how close the yanks and the ruskies came to war last time? Like I said earlier it is rather hard for me to answer your question when I don't know what incident you are refering to. On the top of my head I can't think of any incident where a military exercise almost lead to a war between the US and Russia ? The closest thing would be Able Archer 83 ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Able_Archer_83), but that was more than 30 years ago and since it was a command post exercise involved no planes or ships. Plus it involved the USSR, not Russia. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppi Posted June 4, 2016 #95 Share Posted June 4, 2016 #87, #88 We should never have stopped developing the Saturn... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturn_(rocket_family) Instead we trust the Russians with super tech...The Daily Beast- by PJ O'Rourke (i used to read his stuff at National Lampoon.) ..."I talked to several U.S. aerospace engineers who were involved with Russia from the beginning. “There were cats all over the factory,” said one. “I asked, ‘What’s with the cats?’ The Russians said, ‘The mice.’ I asked, ‘What’s with the mice?’ ‘They gnaw the wiring harnesses.’” This engineer told me about the Soyuz booster engines, similar in design to the RD-180, and how, when it was time for the four boosters to be attached to the rocket, an old man would arrive carrying his own toolbox. He was the original expert on booster attachment. He was retired, but came in, unpaid, to make sure the boosters were attached right.". http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/06/22/why-does-the-usa-depend-on-russian-rockets-to-get-us-into-space.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeder Posted June 4, 2016 Author #96 Share Posted June 4, 2016 38 minutes ago, Poppi said: #87, #88 We should never have stopped developing the Saturn... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturn_(rocket_family) Instead we trust the Russians with super tech...The Daily Beast- by PJ O'Rourke (i used to read his stuff at National Lampoon.) ..."I talked to several U.S. aerospace engineers who were involved with Russia from the beginning. “There were cats all over the factory,” said one. “I asked, ‘What’s with the cats?’ The Russians said, ‘The mice.’ I asked, ‘What’s with the mice?’ ‘They gnaw the wiring harnesses.’” This engineer told me about the Soyuz booster engines, similar in design to the RD-180, and how, when it was time for the four boosters to be attached to the rocket, an old man would arrive carrying his own toolbox. He was the original expert on booster attachment. He was retired, but came in, unpaid, to make sure the boosters were attached right.". http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/06/22/why-does-the-usa-depend-on-russian-rockets-to-get-us-into-space.html well now that youre up to date on Russia 'helping' the US...this thread is about the US now warmongering, or at the least pressing the Russians buttons.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppi Posted June 4, 2016 #97 Share Posted June 4, 2016 Not using Russian boosters would press Russian buttons...That old retired guy and his tool kit would be out of work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imrunningthismonkeyfarm Posted June 4, 2016 #98 Share Posted June 4, 2016 3 hours ago, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said: I you don't want to answer my question, I guess you are right in saying that this is the end of the "conversation". Like I said earlier it is rather hard for me to answer your question when I don't know what incident you are refering to. On the top of my head I can't think of any incident where a military exercise almost lead to a war between the US and Russia ? The closest thing would be Able Archer 83 ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Able_Archer_83), but that was more than 30 years ago and since it was a command post exercise involved no planes or ships. Plus it involved the USSR, not Russia. It's funny how when you are absent from UM for a while you forget how annoying people can be. Not every thing.. I was referring to the Cuban episode but you're right it was the USSR and yes I suppose that doesn't count anyway so well done. Is that the end of the conversation.. probably not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeder Posted June 6, 2016 Author #99 Share Posted June 6, 2016 ‘Let Russia Be!' Say Danes Quote Denmark's recent actions in connection with its obligations to NATO have sparked a heated debate. The decision to send Danish soldiers to Estonia to protect the Baltic from "aggressive" Russia, together with the increase of the military budget, left many Danes angry and worried. At present Denmark is considering sending 150 Danish soldiers to the Russian border as part of NATO's deterrence policy. However, the Danes are unimpressed by the government's belligerent rhetoric. "Disband NATO and let Russia be. It is the US that started everything," wrote user Holger Jensen on the tabloid newspaper Extra Bladet's Facebook page in a debate over the deployment of Danish soldiers who are heading to the Russian border. This post proved to be most popular, followed by another critical opinion by Elisabeth Meldgaard. Read more: http://sputniknews.com/europe/20160603/1040715905/denmark-estonia-troops-commentary.html#ixzz4AlhD29cL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorvir Posted June 6, 2016 #100 Share Posted June 6, 2016 (edited) 10 hours ago, seeder said: ‘Let Russia Be!' Say Danes ....until they're tanks come knocking on our borders, then please, OH PLEASE, America come and save us again! What fools. Edited June 6, 2016 by Thorvir Hrothgaard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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