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Waspie_Dwarf

Universe expanding faster than expected

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Waspie_Dwarf

Hubble finds Universe may be expanding faster than expected

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Astronomers have used Hubble to measure the distances to stars in nineteen galaxies more accurately than previously possible. They found that the Universe is currently expanding faster than the rate derived from measurements of the Universe shortly after the Big Bang. If confirmed, this apparent inconsistency may be an important clue to understanding three of the Universe’s most elusive components: dark matter, dark energy and neutrinos.

A team of astronomers, led by Nobel Laureate Adam Riess and using the NASA/ESA Hubble Space Telescope, have discovered that the Universe is expanding between five and nine percent faster than previously calculated. This is in clear discrepancy with the rate predicted from measurements of the infant Universe.

Source: ESA/Hubble Space Telescope

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bmk1245

Heh, big rip bit closer...

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Taun

We're not sure where we are going... But we're making good time!...

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bubblykiss
16 minutes ago, Taun said:

We're not sure where we are going... But we're making good time!...

 

Our universe is in the advanced placement class. Can we get a bumper sticker to show our pride?

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jethrofloyd

Why is universe expanding?

It needs more space.

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MiloB
2 hours ago, Waspie_Dwarf said:

Hubble finds Universe may be expanding faster than expected

Source: ESA/Hubble Space Telescope

Something I've not understood about this expanding universe theory.  If the "universe" is expanding then all things inside the universe would expand as well, including the space within atoms and even the electrons, etc. that make up the atoms and physics, such as the speed of light, being relative, would expand as well.  Therefore, the inhabitants of the universe would not see any expansion at all since everything expands with it.  In order for us to observe expansion, then the universe needs to be divided into parts, some of which are expanding and some that are not and it follows that the reason some are expanding and others not explained.  Maybe there is an explanation for this but I haven't seen one so far.  I think this whole expansion thing is an illusion. 

Edited by MiloB
spelling correction
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StarMountainKid

One possible explanation for this unexpectedly fast expansion of the Universe is a new type of subatomic particle that may have changed the balance of energy in the early Universe, so called

dark radiation.

From the OP's link.

Dark radiation is a postulated species of radiation that mediates interactions in the dark sector. That is, just the way photons mediate electromagnetic interactions between particles in the Standard Model (baryonic matter in cosmology), dark radiation is supposed to mediate interactions between dark matter particles.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_radiation

So now we have Dark Energy, Dark Matter and Dark Radiation!

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StarMountainKid

Something I've not understood about this expanding universe theory.  If the "universe" is expanding then all things inside the universe would expand as well, including the space within atoms and even the electrons, etc. that make up the atoms and physics, such as the speed of light, being relative, would expand as well.  Therefore, the inhabitants of the universe would not see any expansion at all since everything expands with it.  In order for us to observe expansion, then the universe needs to be divided into parts, some of which are expanding and some that are not and it follows that the reason some are expanding and others not explained.  Maybe there is an explanation for this but I haven't seen one so far.  I think this whole expansion thing is an illusion. 

However, the model is valid only on large scales (roughly the scale of

galaxy clusters and above). At smaller scales matter has become bound together under the influence of gravitational attraction and such things do not expand at the metric expansion rate as the universe ages.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metric_expansion_of_space

 

 

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jethrofloyd
8 minutes ago, StarMountainKid said:

So now we have Dark Energy, Dark Matter and Dark Radiation!

..and Dark Side Of The Moon ^_^

 

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MiloB
36 minutes ago, StarMountainKid said:

Thanks for the link.  Although they don't say it directly, it seems they are saying that the expansion of space is proportional to the distance (i.e. gravitation) between objects.  Since gravity is a distortion of space itself I can see how this could be explained mathematically, however, I still believe they might be missing something.  As stated in the link, the universe is a posteriori and so can only be known as observed and from our little point I doubt one could say we have observed it completely.  So the question is still open.  I think Einstein only scratched the surface of the nature of time and until science factors in the effects of consciousness we will still be grouping around in the dark. 

But that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

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pallidin
On 6/2/2016 at 0:34 PM, jethrofloyd said:

Why is universe expanding?

It needs more space.

That's just it. Space and Time ARE expanding as the universe expands.

Weird, I know. I have no explanation...

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EllJay

Going nowhere fast!!

But what is it expanding too?

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pallidin

Jeth, if I can offer some comfort to this admittedly poorly understood and outright bizarre phenom...

Their is NOTHING that our expanding universe expands INTO.

It is created as the universe expands.

That's right, beyond there IS no time or space. There is LESS than nothing, if that makes any sense.

The expansion of our universe actually "creates/enables" that time and space as it progresses.

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FTWind

What if we are condensening and not expanding? Wouldnt it still seem that things are moving away?

Edited by FTWind

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EllJay
1 minute ago, pallidin said:

Jeth, if I can offer some comfort to this admittedly poorly understood and outright bizarre phenom...

Their is NOTHING that our expanding universe expands INTO.

It is created as the universe expands.

That's right, beyond there IS no time or space. There is LESS than nothing, if that makes any sense.

The expansion of our universe actually "creates/enables" that time and space as it progresses.

 How, and why, can they be so sure on that? Our universe might be inside another, even bigger, universe. Or just something completely unknown.

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pallidin
7 minutes ago, EllJay said:

 How, and why, can they be so sure on that? Our universe might be inside another, even bigger, universe. Or just something completely unknown.

"They" are not sure, by any means.

The grand mysteries of the Cosmos can be summarized as these:

1) The mystery of the "Big Bang"

2) The mystery of universe expansion actually creating/enabling REALITY as it expands.

Edited by pallidin
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pallidin

For example, by some reputable estimates the "Big Bang" occurred 13.8 Billion years ago, or, let's just say 14 billion years ago.

Why 14? Why not 10, or 6, or 1,000,000 billion years ago?

There is NO answer. None, zip, notta, nothing.

Mostly, the reason for "no answer" is that we have no "causation" that might account for that unimaginable event 14 billion years ago.

We have no clue as to causation.

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Ell

The universe is not expanding at all.

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Ell
On 2-6-2016 at 8:58 PM, MiloB said:

Something I've not understood about this expanding universe theory.  If the "universe" is expanding then all things inside the universe would expand as well, including the space within atoms and even the electrons, etc. that make up the atoms and physics, such as the speed of light, being relative, would expand as well.  Therefore, the inhabitants of the universe would not see any expansion at all since everything expands with it.  In order for us to observe expansion, then the universe needs to be divided into parts, some of which are expanding and some that are not and it follows that the reason some are expanding and others not explained.  Maybe there is an explanation for this but I haven't seen one so far.  I think this whole expansion thing is an illusion. 

My reasoning exactly. Besides, in my astronomy book from 2000 and previous editions - published under own management and in limited editions - I argue that there never was a big bang.

Edited by Ell
to remove a space
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pallidin
1 minute ago, Ell said:

My reasoning exactly. Besides, in my astronomy book from 2000 and previous editions - published under own management  and in limited editions - I argue that there never was a big bang.

Be careful with that reasoning, as it has been well established that the universe IS expanding.

For the "Big Bang" yes, that is only a theory but seems to fit extremely well within cosmological models. Is it "correct"? I don't know, but is the universe "expanding"? Yes. That is correct, observed, modelled and accepted.

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pallidin

Perhaps Waspie (mod) could give some insight into this difficult problem. 'cause I don't know.

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Ell
1 hour ago, pallidin said:

Be careful with that reasoning, as it has been well established that the universe IS expanding.

No, it hasn't. That is not a fact, but merely an interpretation of some phenomenons.

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FTWind
42 minutes ago, Ell said:

No, it hasn't. That is not a fact, but merely an interpretation of some phenomenons.

Ok please elaborate. If its not expanding what is it doing ? Also you claim it isnt expanding like you have already won the nobel prize(which im sure you havent).

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Waspie_Dwarf
2 hours ago, Ell said:

published under own management and in limited editions

That says a huge amount about how seriously we should take your book. If it was a peer reviewed publication I would treat it with respect.

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toast
3 hours ago, pallidin said:

Their is NOTHING that our expanding universe expands INTO.

As we do exist in a locked system (the universe), our options for observations are limited to the inside area only. That fact does not allow  evaluations about any conditions and/or events that are not related to the systems interior.

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