Waspie_Dwarf Posted June 2, 2016 #1 Share Posted June 2, 2016 Hubble finds Universe may be expanding faster than expected Quote Astronomers have used Hubble to measure the distances to stars in nineteen galaxies more accurately than previously possible. They found that the Universe is currently expanding faster than the rate derived from measurements of the Universe shortly after the Big Bang. If confirmed, this apparent inconsistency may be an important clue to understanding three of the Universe’s most elusive components: dark matter, dark energy and neutrinos. A team of astronomers, led by Nobel Laureate Adam Riess and using the NASA/ESA Hubble Space Telescope, have discovered that the Universe is expanding between five and nine percent faster than previously calculated. This is in clear discrepancy with the rate predicted from measurements of the infant Universe. Source: ESA/Hubble Space Telescope 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmk1245 Posted June 2, 2016 #2 Share Posted June 2, 2016 Heh, big rip bit closer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taun Posted June 2, 2016 #3 Share Posted June 2, 2016 We're not sure where we are going... But we're making good time!... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubblykiss Posted June 2, 2016 #4 Share Posted June 2, 2016 16 minutes ago, Taun said: We're not sure where we are going... But we're making good time!... Our universe is in the advanced placement class. Can we get a bumper sticker to show our pride? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jethrofloyd Posted June 2, 2016 #5 Share Posted June 2, 2016 Why is universe expanding? It needs more space. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiloB Posted June 2, 2016 #6 Share Posted June 2, 2016 (edited) 2 hours ago, Waspie_Dwarf said: Hubble finds Universe may be expanding faster than expected Source: ESA/Hubble Space Telescope Something I've not understood about this expanding universe theory. If the "universe" is expanding then all things inside the universe would expand as well, including the space within atoms and even the electrons, etc. that make up the atoms and physics, such as the speed of light, being relative, would expand as well. Therefore, the inhabitants of the universe would not see any expansion at all since everything expands with it. In order for us to observe expansion, then the universe needs to be divided into parts, some of which are expanding and some that are not and it follows that the reason some are expanding and others not explained. Maybe there is an explanation for this but I haven't seen one so far. I think this whole expansion thing is an illusion. Edited June 2, 2016 by MiloB spelling correction 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarMountainKid Posted June 2, 2016 #7 Share Posted June 2, 2016 One possible explanation for this unexpectedly fast expansion of the Universe is a new type of subatomic particle that may have changed the balance of energy in the early Universe, so called dark radiation. From the OP's link. Dark radiation is a postulated species of radiation that mediates interactions in the dark sector. That is, just the way photons mediate electromagnetic interactions between particles in the Standard Model (baryonic matter in cosmology), dark radiation is supposed to mediate interactions between dark matter particles. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_radiation So now we have Dark Energy, Dark Matter and Dark Radiation! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarMountainKid Posted June 2, 2016 #8 Share Posted June 2, 2016 Something I've not understood about this expanding universe theory. If the "universe" is expanding then all things inside the universe would expand as well, including the space within atoms and even the electrons, etc. that make up the atoms and physics, such as the speed of light, being relative, would expand as well. Therefore, the inhabitants of the universe would not see any expansion at all since everything expands with it. In order for us to observe expansion, then the universe needs to be divided into parts, some of which are expanding and some that are not and it follows that the reason some are expanding and others not explained. Maybe there is an explanation for this but I haven't seen one so far. I think this whole expansion thing is an illusion. However, the model is valid only on large scales (roughly the scale of galaxy clusters and above). At smaller scales matter has become bound together under the influence of gravitational attraction and such things do not expand at the metric expansion rate as the universe ages. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metric_expansion_of_space Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jethrofloyd Posted June 2, 2016 #9 Share Posted June 2, 2016 8 minutes ago, StarMountainKid said: So now we have Dark Energy, Dark Matter and Dark Radiation! ..and Dark Side Of The Moon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiloB Posted June 2, 2016 #10 Share Posted June 2, 2016 36 minutes ago, StarMountainKid said: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metric_expansion_of_space Thanks for the link. Although they don't say it directly, it seems they are saying that the expansion of space is proportional to the distance (i.e. gravitation) between objects. Since gravity is a distortion of space itself I can see how this could be explained mathematically, however, I still believe they might be missing something. As stated in the link, the universe is a posteriori and so can only be known as observed and from our little point I doubt one could say we have observed it completely. So the question is still open. I think Einstein only scratched the surface of the nature of time and until science factors in the effects of consciousness we will still be grouping around in the dark. But that's just my opinion, I could be wrong. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pallidin Posted June 3, 2016 #11 Share Posted June 3, 2016 On 6/2/2016 at 0:34 PM, jethrofloyd said: Why is universe expanding? It needs more space. That's just it. Space and Time ARE expanding as the universe expands. Weird, I know. I have no explanation... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EllJay Posted June 3, 2016 #12 Share Posted June 3, 2016 Going nowhere fast!! But what is it expanding too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pallidin Posted June 3, 2016 #13 Share Posted June 3, 2016 Jeth, if I can offer some comfort to this admittedly poorly understood and outright bizarre phenom... Their is NOTHING that our expanding universe expands INTO. It is created as the universe expands. That's right, beyond there IS no time or space. There is LESS than nothing, if that makes any sense. The expansion of our universe actually "creates/enables" that time and space as it progresses. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTWind Posted June 3, 2016 #14 Share Posted June 3, 2016 (edited) What if we are condensening and not expanding? Wouldnt it still seem that things are moving away? Edited June 3, 2016 by FTWind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EllJay Posted June 3, 2016 #15 Share Posted June 3, 2016 1 minute ago, pallidin said: Jeth, if I can offer some comfort to this admittedly poorly understood and outright bizarre phenom... Their is NOTHING that our expanding universe expands INTO. It is created as the universe expands. That's right, beyond there IS no time or space. There is LESS than nothing, if that makes any sense. The expansion of our universe actually "creates/enables" that time and space as it progresses. How, and why, can they be so sure on that? Our universe might be inside another, even bigger, universe. Or just something completely unknown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pallidin Posted June 3, 2016 #16 Share Posted June 3, 2016 (edited) 7 minutes ago, EllJay said: How, and why, can they be so sure on that? Our universe might be inside another, even bigger, universe. Or just something completely unknown. "They" are not sure, by any means. The grand mysteries of the Cosmos can be summarized as these: 1) The mystery of the "Big Bang" 2) The mystery of universe expansion actually creating/enabling REALITY as it expands. Edited June 3, 2016 by pallidin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pallidin Posted June 3, 2016 #17 Share Posted June 3, 2016 For example, by some reputable estimates the "Big Bang" occurred 13.8 Billion years ago, or, let's just say 14 billion years ago. Why 14? Why not 10, or 6, or 1,000,000 billion years ago? There is NO answer. None, zip, notta, nothing. Mostly, the reason for "no answer" is that we have no "causation" that might account for that unimaginable event 14 billion years ago. We have no clue as to causation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ell Posted June 3, 2016 #18 Share Posted June 3, 2016 The universe is not expanding at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ell Posted June 3, 2016 #19 Share Posted June 3, 2016 (edited) On 2-6-2016 at 8:58 PM, MiloB said: Something I've not understood about this expanding universe theory. If the "universe" is expanding then all things inside the universe would expand as well, including the space within atoms and even the electrons, etc. that make up the atoms and physics, such as the speed of light, being relative, would expand as well. Therefore, the inhabitants of the universe would not see any expansion at all since everything expands with it. In order for us to observe expansion, then the universe needs to be divided into parts, some of which are expanding and some that are not and it follows that the reason some are expanding and others not explained. Maybe there is an explanation for this but I haven't seen one so far. I think this whole expansion thing is an illusion. My reasoning exactly. Besides, in my astronomy book from 2000 and previous editions - published under own management and in limited editions - I argue that there never was a big bang. Edited June 3, 2016 by Ell to remove a space 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pallidin Posted June 3, 2016 #20 Share Posted June 3, 2016 1 minute ago, Ell said: My reasoning exactly. Besides, in my astronomy book from 2000 and previous editions - published under own management and in limited editions - I argue that there never was a big bang. Be careful with that reasoning, as it has been well established that the universe IS expanding. For the "Big Bang" yes, that is only a theory but seems to fit extremely well within cosmological models. Is it "correct"? I don't know, but is the universe "expanding"? Yes. That is correct, observed, modelled and accepted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pallidin Posted June 3, 2016 #21 Share Posted June 3, 2016 Perhaps Waspie (mod) could give some insight into this difficult problem. 'cause I don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ell Posted June 3, 2016 #22 Share Posted June 3, 2016 1 hour ago, pallidin said: Be careful with that reasoning, as it has been well established that the universe IS expanding. No, it hasn't. That is not a fact, but merely an interpretation of some phenomenons. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTWind Posted June 3, 2016 #23 Share Posted June 3, 2016 42 minutes ago, Ell said: No, it hasn't. That is not a fact, but merely an interpretation of some phenomenons. Ok please elaborate. If its not expanding what is it doing ? Also you claim it isnt expanding like you have already won the nobel prize(which im sure you havent). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waspie_Dwarf Posted June 4, 2016 Author #24 Share Posted June 4, 2016 2 hours ago, Ell said: published under own management and in limited editions That says a huge amount about how seriously we should take your book. If it was a peer reviewed publication I would treat it with respect. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toast Posted June 4, 2016 #25 Share Posted June 4, 2016 3 hours ago, pallidin said: Their is NOTHING that our expanding universe expands INTO. As we do exist in a locked system (the universe), our options for observations are limited to the inside area only. That fact does not allow evaluations about any conditions and/or events that are not related to the systems interior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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