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Still Waters

Mass-casualty shooting at Orlando nightclub

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Still Waters

A gunman has shot dead "about 20 people" in what police have described as "an act of terrorism" on a gay nightclub in Orlando.

The shooter, carrying a bomb and armed with an assault rifle and a handgun, opened fire in the Pulse Orlando bar, leaving around 20 people dead and 42 injured.

http://news.sky.com/story/1710712/orlando-nightclub-terror-attack-leaves-20-dead

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Lilly

Hmm..."suspect may have had leanings toward Islamic extremism" (from the last link). The Radical Jihadists do indeed hate gay people, I can believe they would target them.

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Thanato
10 minutes ago, Lilly said:

Hmm..."suspect may have had leanings toward Islamic extremism" (from the last link). The Radical Jihadists do indeed hate gay people, I can believe they would target them.

So do the radical Christians, who also hate gay people and have target them.

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LV-426

Another tragic loss of life.

It's hard to say anything about "Islamic extremism" that hasn't been said on these forums a thousand times before.

It'll be interesting to see how America reacts in its current political climate.

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Lilly

Oh dear, here we go again. Does anyone know if they've identified the shooter as of yet?

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Leonardo

The Nail Bomber here in London wasn't a "radical Islamist". As to the reports of the ideology of the shooter in Orlando, all I hear so far is "believed to be", "suspected of being" - which sounds like the media repeating rumours.

In the current climate, especially in the US it seems, there is a danger that any act such as this will automatically be reported as "an act of Islamic terrorism" even if it isn't. This just perpetuates and exacerbates the fear and prejudice that already exists. Until more is learned of the gunman I will reserve my judgement about his ideological leanings.

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seeder
3 minutes ago, Leonardo said:

The Nail Bomber here in London wasn't a "radical Islamist". As to the reports of the ideology of the shooter in Orlando, all I hear so far is "believed to be", "suspected of being" - which sounds like the media repeating rumours.

In the current climate, especially in the US it seems, there is a danger that any act such as this will automatically be reported as "an act of Islamic terrorism" even if it isn't. This just perpetuates and exacerbates the fear and prejudice that already exists. Until more is learned of the gunman I will reserve my judgement about his ideological leanings.

 

Yeh the nailbomber was just a mixed up hate filled weirdo


 

Quote

 

David Copeland (born 15 May 1976) is a British Neo-Nazi militant who became known as the "London Nail Bomber" after a 13-day bombing campaign in April 1999 aimed at London's black, South Asian and gay communities that resulted in three people killed and more than a hundred injured.[2] Widely labelled a terrorist,[1] Copeland was a former member of two far-right political groups, the British National Party and then the National Socialist Movement.

Over three successive weekends between 17 and 30 April 1999, Copeland placed homemade nail bombs, each containing up to 1,500 four-inch nails, in holdalls that he left in public spaces around London. The first bomb was placed outside the Iceland supermarket in Electric Avenue, Brixton, an area of south London with a large black population. The second was in Brick Lane in the East End of London, which has a large Bangladeshi community. The third was inside the Admiral Duncan pub in Soho's Old Compton Street, the heart of London's gay community. The bombs killed three people, including a pregnant woman, and injured 140, four of whom lost limbs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Copeland

 

 

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susieice
1 hour ago, Lilly said:

Oh dear, here we go again. Does anyone know if they've identified the shooter as of yet?

Police killed the shooter when he started shooting at them when they entered the club. Just saw this when I came online. As of now, I don't think any name has been released.

http://6abc.com/news/police-approx-20-dead-in-orlando-nightclub-shooting/1381915/

Edited by susieice
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Lilly

It was (according to the link posted by SW and cable news) the FBI who said:

The attacker, who was said by the FBI to have "leanings" towards extremism and Islamic State, was  involved with a three-hour stand-off with officers before SWAT teams stormed the building and shot him dead.

The news may have this wrong but I've heard it said several times this morning that the shooter was somehow involved with Extreme Islamic Jihadist terrorism.

 

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Stubbly_Dooright

That's what I'm reading so far, that he 'may have'. It's not that I'm doubting it or not, but I wish they showed why they thought he 'may have' had or what evidence that may have shown his past in it. My local newspaper site didn't have that bit about what the shooter's leanings were. I don't think I could find the assumption on CNN.com either, but I probably didn't look very hard. 

I seem to remember there was the assumption of Muslims being involved in the Oklahoma City bombing, until they did find out it was local individuals who did it. My first thought was, when read where it occurred, was something more local, even if it's a lone figure, based in the attitude of some ideals of this country. I just don't think a gay club would be the place hit for Islamic targets. 

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Saru

Just a general note for this thread - as always with stories like this we must ask that members please avoid posting graphic images or links to stories containing graphics images.

Thank you.

 

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susieice

CNN is reporting that police have a possible identity of the suspect and are interviewing family and friends. It is being ruled, at the least, as a hate crime and an act of domestic terrorism. No name has been released yet, or not being reported at the moment.

Had to edit. An update at the bottom of my link above says police have given the name of Omar Mateen of St. Lucie as the person who committed the shootings. Here's a new link. It is now being investigated as an Islamic Extremist shooting.

http://6abc.com/news/suspect-identified-in-florida-club-shooting-approx-20-dead/1381907/

Edited by susieice
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Stubbly_Dooright
4 minutes ago, Lilly said:

Oh, I don't doubt their attitudes matching hardcore religious attitudes here on homosexuality. I have read various accounts on their beliefs and what they do.  

Based on the link you provided, ( thank you by the way ) that seems more of one on one, or couple of individuals being pursued and being judged. It doesn't seem to be coming into a joint to shoot down a mass populace like it was in Paris and here at the Pulse club. And if I'm getting the link you provided correctly, there seems to be an ideal way of punishing homosexuals and it seems to have to be very very brutal. Not just shooting the all, from what I gather. 

What I'm assuming, is that based on what I have seen of their mass populace targets, a particular place for where a certain part of the populace goes to, doesn't seem to show the wide attention, that I have seen in other shootings. Like a cafe, a concert arena, military bases, or public areas where a political conference or such takes place. 

To me, it's like they want to hit it big and show their contempt for all sorts of 'vices' or attitudes at the same time, not one sole area for one sole hatred for one particular thing. 

Just my assumption of what I have noticed in the past. My point was hoping they find more evidence and show that evidence of their assumptions. I'm probably going to assume that they just will in doing that. I just find it not the same pattern as I have noticed it before. I know, my assumptions of how I see it, from the beginning of the media reports of a situation, does come up wrong, so that could be the case here. :yes: 

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Still Waters

According to Orlando Sentinel -

Quote

Sources have confirmed to CBS News that authorities are investigating whether the suspect, who has been named as 29-year-old Omar Mateen of Port St. Lucie, had ties to Islamic terrorism. Mateen is a U.S. citizen with no apparent criminal history, according to sources.

Oops sorry susiece, I didn't notice you'd updated your post and have already mentioned this.

Edited by Still Waters
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RavenHawk

Lovely news.  I wake up and my phone sounds with an alert about a mass shooting that *may* be related to Islamic Terrorism.  OK – so I’d like to know how they’ve determined that?  So I turn on the TV because I’m sure the news programs will be running with the story.  The news reporter was interviewing an FBI agent that stated that the shooter may have had ties with “IT”.  The reporter asked him what’s “it” and he hesitated and then finally said “terrorism”.  Throughout the entire interview she kept referring to the shooter as allegedly having ties to Islamic terrorism.  Even with all of that, the agent couldn’t say “Islamic Terrorism”.  That’s the Obama mindset, infecting the ability of those agencies that have a duty to protect us.  They’ve indentified that the shooter (Omar Matine?) is a US Citizen of Afghanistan heritage.  Let’s just wait and see how all the players react in the hours to come.

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susieice

They say now his full name was Omar Saddiqui Mateen and he was from Afghanistan. Police are looking into his online and travel history. CNN is questioning how he got into the country and if he had Taliban links. Police say he was trained in the use of weapons.

Edited by susieice
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seeder

Everything;'s big in America, as the old song goes...

 

Quote

 

When it comes to gun massacres, the United States is tragically exceptional: There are more public mass shootings in the United States than in any other country in the world, according to a new study.
Between 1966 and 2012, there were 90 mass shootings in the United States. Mass shootings are defined for the study as having four or more victims and don't include gang killings or slayings that involve the death of multiple family members; while high-profile, the Virginia shooting does not fit this definition. These are shootings such as those in the Aurora, Colorado, movie theater in 2012, and at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut, that same year.

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/08/27/health/u-s-most-mass-shootings/

 

 

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susieice

CNN just had a police press conference. Police are now saying 50 dead, 53 injured. Looking for link now.

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/several-injured-in-shooting-at-orlando-nightclub

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/12/florida-gay-nightclub-shooting-injuries-reported-at-pulse-orland/

Edited by susieice
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susieice

This is now being called the worst mass killing in US history. Many of the wounded are in critical condition.

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Lilly

IMO this is a major terrorist attack and hopefully the authorities will be able to trace down any others this man might have been in contact with.

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DieChecker

If it turns out this guy got into the US under one of these recent Obama "refugee victim" visas, you can bet the Congress will go nuts.

Maybe he was just another lone wolf "Radicalized by the internet" American Muslim.

Seems a lot of these Radicals are radicalized over the internet. I wonder if there is anything to do about that?

Edited by DieChecker
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Gromdor

Sounds like he was born in New York.  His parents were from Afghanistan though.  Came over pre-war.   Also seems he has been a registered democrat for 9 years.

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Leonardo
1 minute ago, DieChecker said:

If it turns out this guy got into the US under one of these recent Obama "refugee victim" visas, you can bet the Congress will go nuts.

Maybe he was just another lone wolf "Radicalized by the internet" American Muslim.

Seems a lot of these Radicals are radicalized over the internet. I wonder if there is anything to do about that?

Maybe he was and maybe he wasn't.

Let's assume he was a Muslim. Would that automatically make his actions a result of "Islamic terrorism"?

In the eyes of many, I think the answer would be yes - regardless his actual motivation for committing such an act.

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Gromdor

The FBI did say he was on their radar for some time and has made terrorism threats in the past.

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