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Mass-casualty shooting at Orlando nightclub


Still Waters

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4 minutes ago, Black Red Devil said:

Say again?

Exactly what part of that did you not understand? 

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28 minutes ago, Uncle Sam said:

Somebody please tell me why the Leftist Media keeps trying to push this as a Gun Control issue and try deflect all questioning from the real core issue? I find it very said there is always some agenda in the media or politics when it comes to these tragedies, yet I saw this coming from a miles away. It isn't very hard to see where this is going when you keep tabs on all the incidents that happen in the United States, they all follow the same damn pattern and we always end up having the same arguments on these forums.

Aha, a simple semi automatic in the hands of the wrong person managed to kill 50 plus people and wound another 50 plus, has nothing to do with the easiness of obtaining guns but it has something to do with another core issue.  OK let's hear it, what's the real core issue then?

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4 minutes ago, Black Red Devil said:

Aha, a simple semi automatic in the hands of the wrong person managed to kill 50 plus people and wound another 50 plus, has nothing to do with the easiness of obtaining guns but it has something to do with another core issue.  OK let's hear it, what's the real core issue then?

He passed all of the background checks and worked for a security firm with a special permit. People have slipped by the military and police departments too. I suppose we should disarm them also.

Edited by Michelle
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5 minutes ago, Michelle said:

Exactly what part of that did you not understand? 

The bolded part.  Am I mistaken in believing that the Virginia Tech shooter obtained his guns legally.  Result 32 dead.  The Sandy Hook shooter also used legally obtained weapons. 

 

Just two that came to mind.  But maybe I'm mistaken and you meant something else.

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5 minutes ago, Michelle said:

He passed all of the background checks and worked for a security firm with a special permit. People have slipped by the military and police departments too. I suppose we should disarm them also.

Does the US arm security guards with semi-automatics and grenades?

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9 minutes ago, Michelle said:

He passed all of the background checks and worked for a security firm with a special permit. People have slipped by the military and police departments too. I suppose we should disarm them also.

Alternatively, instead of sarcastic dismissal you could see that the point being made is not that people should be dearness but rather I should be harder to get guns.

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Just now, Black Red Devil said:

The bolded part.  Am I mistaken in believing that the Virginia Tech shooter obtained his guns legally.  Result 32 dead.  The Sandy Hook shooter also used legally obtained weapons. 

 

Just two that came to mind.  But maybe I'm mistaken and you meant something else.

As everyone keeps saying, the average Muslim isn't the problem. The same with the average gun owner.

2 minutes ago, Black Red Devil said:

Does the US arm security guards with semi-automatics and grenades?

They are not and they are also not easily attainable legally.

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2 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

Alternatively, instead of sarcastic dismissal you could see that the point being made is not that people should be dearness but rather I should be harder to get guns.

I responded to a sarcastic comment in kind.

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For once, and this is a rare thing, I think Marco Rubio seemed to be talking sense. Like in Paris and Brussels, if they were been determined and/or insane enough, anyone could obtain suitable weapons through illegal channels, so there does seem to be a great deal of bandwagon-jumping in Obama's immediate response about tightening up gun laws. 

And another thing: "the FBI had taken in the gunman for interview three times, but let him go each time"? You can see how conspiracy theories take root, can't you. :mellow:

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25 minutes ago, Black Red Devil said:

Aha, a simple semi automatic in the hands of the wrong person managed to kill 50 plus people and wound another 50 plus, has nothing to do with the easiness of obtaining guns but it has something to do with another core issue.  OK let's hear it, what's the real core issue then?

First, a bit of perspective.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-34996604

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/dvs/lcwk9_2014.pdf

There are more guns in America than people.  Of those 310 million or so guns fewer than 14 thousand deaths occurred in 2014.  The great majority of those were common crime related thuggery.  It seems that in your world it is acceptable to punish all for the acts of the few.  It also seems that you trust your government - made up of people no more moral or intelligent than most humans to always be noble and self sacrificing, never seeking additional power over the masses.  We in America had a different history.  This hater acted on his own to kill 50 people.  Neither I nor any other of the millions of legal gun owners did that.  It's my opinion that the citizens of the wider world care nothing for the deaths which occur here.  They only become incensed as a means of implying some moral or intellectual superiority.  It's ridiculous of course since the worst atrocities known to mankind began in places other than America.  Hater's gonna hate and in my part of this country WE DON'T CARE what they think.

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40 minutes ago, Michelle said:

As everyone keeps saying, the average Muslim isn't the problem. The same with the average gun owner.

 

And which of the two have you, as an American citizen, have control over?

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23 minutes ago, Black Red Devil said:

And which of the two have you, as an American citizen, have control over?

The point though is that it would make no difference. increased gun control (or even outlawing private gun ownership altogether) would just be a panacea and a red herring in nearly every premeditated mass shooting case, where they're planned in advance rather than someone just flipping on the spur of the moment. They'd have no trouble, as Mr. Rubio said, getting hold of suitable weapons through underground channels. 

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30 minutes ago, and then said:

First, a bit of perspective.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-34996604

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/dvs/lcwk9_2014.pdf

There are more guns in America than people.  Of those 310 million or so guns fewer than 14 thousand deaths occurred in 2014.  The great majority of those were common crime related thuggery.  It seems that in your world it is acceptable to punish all for the acts of the few.  It also seems that you trust your government - made up of people no more moral or intelligent than most humans to always be noble and self sacrificing, never seeking additional power over the masses.  We in America had a different history.  This hater acted on his own to kill 50 people.  Neither I nor any other of the millions of legal gun owners did that.  It's my opinion that the citizens of the wider world care nothing for the deaths which occur here.  They only become incensed as a means of implying some moral or intellectual superiority.  It's ridiculous of course since the worst atrocities known to mankind began in places other than America.  Hater's gonna hate and in my part of this country WE DON'T CARE what they think.

I'll start off from the bottom part.  You don't care what the rest of the world thinks? Nobody is forcing their ways into your local politics, just simply making comments on an international and world event tragedy.  Similarly to how you put your two cents worth into political events that happen in the ME, UK and other places.  Your divine Right to comment as long as you don't break forum rules.  Well guess what, same here!  So I wouldn't give a rats whether you care or not. 

Secondly nobody is making intellectually superior comments.  They're just comments based on local experiences.  But obviously you and gun owners alike take offense, are happy to ignore other cases in the world, overlook the massacres, as long as you can keep your toys.  Well hallelujah to that, who am I to deny you your pleasures in life.

But the clincher is this, "It also seems that you trust your government".   Are you really so obtuse to think that a legally elected Government in the western world is going to do a coup d'etat on it's people and become something of a dictatorship?  But even more interesting, are you really that convinced that, in the eventuality of such a ridiculous suggestion occurring, you and others are going to overthrow the dictatorship with your double barrel shotguns? Has it ever crossed your mind that your 2nd amendment on gun Rights was written in different times?  :no: Unbelievable!

Edited by Black Red Devil
to add: in the western world
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33 minutes ago, and then said:

First, a bit of perspective.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-34996604

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/dvs/lcwk9_2014.pdf

There are more guns in America than people.  Of those 310 million or so guns fewer than 14 thousand deaths occurred in 2014.  The great majority of those were common crime related thuggery.  It seems that in your world it is acceptable to punish all for the acts of the few.  It also seems that you trust your government - made up of people no more moral or intelligent than most humans to always be noble and self sacrificing, never seeking additional power over the masses.  We in America had a different history.  This hater acted on his own to kill 50 people.  Neither I nor any other of the millions of legal gun owners did that.  It's my opinion that the citizens of the wider world care nothing for the deaths which occur here.  They only become incensed as a means of implying some moral or intellectual superiority.  It's ridiculous of course since the worst atrocities known to mankind began in places other than America.  Hater's gonna hate and in my part of this country WE DON'T CARE what they think.

Also, what are you trying to tell us with the links?  That despite the numerous deaths by guns in the US there are more people dying from other causes?  Well that surely is a relief!!

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1 hour ago, Michelle said:

 

He worked for a security firm and had a special gun permit, because he had no record. Rarely are crimes like this committed with legal guns.

Well, he was on the FBI threat radar at some point.

That should raise some serious questions as to why should he be able to legally buy an assault rifle then.

Edited by TruthSeeker_
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Just now, TruthSeeker_ said:

Well, he was on the FBI threat radar at some point. 

Three times, in fact, apparently. :mellow:

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20 minutes ago, Otto von Pickelhaube said:

The point though is that it would make no difference. increased gun control (or even outlawing private gun ownership altogether) would just be a panacea and a red herring in nearly every premeditated mass shooting case, where they're planned in advance rather than someone just flipping on the spur of the moment. They'd have no trouble, as Mr. Rubio said, getting hold of suitable weapons through underground channels. 

Sure and so do organised criminals in the UK and Australia.  But at least the loonies and lone wolfs would have a bit more trouble in obtaining semis and hand grenades.  Also, I would arguably suggest that in a world with limited gun control, obtaining guns illegally would be a lot easier than in countries with tougher gun laws, no?

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9 hours ago, and then said:

I did not read Jack Skellington's comment to be about partisanship at all.  He was merely pointing to the similarity in the kinds of mental gymnastics all Liberal/Progressive types engage in when their beliefs are outed as pure rubbish.  He was responding to Leonardo,  who was in effect parsing and twisting the facts in a very precisely legal way - to bring doubt on the role of Islamic ideology.

How is relaying what has been reported by official sources as it was written "parsing and twisting facts"?

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9 hours ago, Jack Skellington said:

No.

It isn't complicated at all.

The President likes to say things are "complicated" whenever reality bumps up against his ideology.  Whenever truth is uncomfortable.

What is his ideology? He's "pro-Islamic"? (Which is why he likes to assassinate so many)?

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5 hours ago, Mangoze said:

The New Testament advocates adhering to secular law

I am not gonna discuss that obvious BS. Maybe your priest told you that which supports my starement of promoting a harmless version. But anyway your statement is so delusional I wonder if you ever read the bible.

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1 minute ago, hellwyr said:

I am not gonna discuss that obvious BS. Maybe your priest told you that which supports my starement of promoting a harmless version. But anyway your statement is so delusional I wonder if you ever read the bible.

'Give to caesar what belongs to caesar'

For a start...

Yeah I've comprehended it.

 

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Guest Br Cornelius

All the usual prejudices out on full display here. Of course the free availability of assault rifles had nothing to do with what happened, cos a hand gun would easily cause as much death.

Again America proves it has some whacked out cultural values.

 

Br Cornelius

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Again Islam proves it has some whacked out cultural values and progressives can't mention it.

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At least my cultural values don't include killing everyone that doesn't ascribe to my religion, is homosexual, or is a female that refuses to be a slave...need I go on. ISIS promotes some pretty horrific cultural values.

And BTW, it's important to remember that modern 21st century Muslims do not promote the same cultural values as the Radical Extreme Jihadist Muslims.

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