Mass-casualty shooting at Orlando nightclub

[Lilly]

2 minutes ago, questionmark said:

What? Military and morning roll call? I can't imagine any better targets if you want a big body count. And most of them will be unarmed standing on a big open field.

Since Fort Hood (13 killed) I don't think it would be a 'cake walk' to kill large numbers. But obviously, the guy was homophobic.  So like I said, it was a 'two for one' slaughter.

[Stubbly_Dooright]

10 hours ago, Paranormal Panther said:

Cheese and rice! For the third time in this thread, I'm talking about Tim McVeigh, in response to a prior post.

I keep having a problem remembering his name, so thank you on that, but he comes up in my mind within these discussions. Tim McVeigh an Atheist? He was born an Atheist? Not from where I have gotten his info. 

It says here, he was Agnostic.

It also says here he was an Agnostic.

This is one of some sites that report him being raised a Roman Catholic.

 

[Thorvir]

10 hours ago, TruthSeeker_ said:

Not in this case. His explosive vest failed to detonate, which proves you wrong.

What made such a carnage is the assault rifle. It took 11 law enforcement officers to bring him down.

/facepalm

Just because HIS vest failed, doesn't mean use your brain wrong.  McVeigh used explosives...

What made the carnage was the hate-fill extremism the man had.  The tools involved don't matter.  But, yeah, keep blaming this on guns and using a tragedy to make a political statement.

[questionmark]

Just now, Lilly said:

Since Fort Hood (13 killed) I don't think it would be a 'cake walk' to kill large numbers. But obviously, the guy was homophobic.  So like I said, it was a 'two for one' slaughter.

The military does not change (which is the reason they have additional civilian guards). And yes, there were 13 dead and 50 wounded by a single handgun.

[Thorvir]

8 hours ago, TruthSeeker_ said:

What is the real core issue?

Prejudice and hatred, islamic extremism, and a body of the political left that ignore these problems and allow them to flourish.

[+susieice]

Ok. I'll ignore the 911 call where he himself stated his intentions, and assume US gun laws were responsible for Paris and Brussels and everywhere else things like this have happened. Or will. And it will go on until someone starts playing this game with a full deck.

[Myles]

I think I may get an AR15 or something similar.   If stricter laws are enacted, their value will skyrocket.  

Guns are a great investment.  

[Stubbly_Dooright]

8 hours ago, Michelle said:

 

He worked for a security firm and had a special gun permit, because he had no record. Rarely are crimes like this committed with legal guns.

People with mental health issues don't normally admit they have a problem and are often off the radar. They will use whatever they can get their hands on when they want to kill. Short of wrapping people in kevlar there isn't much that can be done.

And this is what I see, when you do have those with either warped agendas or mental issues, is that they will do anything to get at their mark. I think of the 9/11 terrorists with using plastic knives and forks for weapons, ( from what I remember reading about it ) and one guy, whose from my state going to a mid-western state to murder his father and someone else with a bow and set of arrows. 

One source

I can understand some form of concern for gun control, but again, I see what to do with mental health and such being ignored. I really think, once we have a step in the right direction in how to deal with it, there might be a better way of looking at this all and hopefully preventing more tragedies. 

[Lilly]

I can't believe that some still cling to the idea that this attack was not (at the very least influenced by) Radical Extremist Islam.

Get ready to be incorrect again: http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/orlando-nightclub-massacre/omar-mateen-u-s-suicide-bomber-tied-fort-pierce-florida-n590846

Sure, part of Mr Mateen's motivation was most certainly his hatred of gays, but this goes farther than just a hate crime and the vast majority of us know it.

[GlitterRose]

5 minutes ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

And this is what I see, when you do have those with either warped agendas or mental issues, is that they will do anything to get at their mark. I think of the 9/11 terrorists with using plastic knives and forks for weapons, ( from what I remember reading about it ) and one guy, whose from my state going to a mid-western state to murder his father and someone else with a bow and set of arrows. 

One source

I can understand some form of concern for gun control, but again, I see what to do with mental health and such being ignored. I really think, once we have a step in the right direction in how to deal with it, there might be a better way of looking at this all and hopefully preventing more tragedies. 

It would be great if we didn't have to go after religion or guns, but just keep guns out of the hands of crazy people. I mean, if it's on record that someone has been making death threats, they shouldn't be able to go and buy a gun. Really, that should be a no-brainer. 

[supervike]

I really don't understand the reluctance to accept that this was a terrorist killing, because of Radical Islam.

 

Most rational thinking people realize that Radical Islam does NOT equal Islam as a whole.  I am quite capable of knowing that a vast majority of Muslims are peace loving and want nothing to do with this madness.  But, I am also capable of knowing that a sliver of these people have been radicalized and are capable of horrendous acts.

 

[questionmark]

2 minutes ago, Lilly said:

I can't believe that some still cling to the idea that this attack was not (at the very least influenced by) Radical Extremist Islam.

Get ready to be incorrect again: http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/orlando-nightclub-massacre/omar-mateen-u-s-suicide-bomber-tied-fort-pierce-florida-n590846

Sure, part of Mr Mateen's motivation was most certainly his hatred of gays, but this goes farther than just a hate crime and the vast majority of us know it.

The thing nobody who wants to blame Islam for this understands is that this was pretty much a lone wolf attack. No large conspiracy, somebody fell through the gun law sieve (who most certainly should not have) and he went after something he hated calling himself an adept of ISIS.

Now think about it for a moment, what do you think the ISIS command needs attacked right now, a gay club or an Army base (to which this guy had unhindered access)?

ISIS is an open franchise, as long as you hit an "enemy target" they will claim responsibility, whether they know the perpetrator or they don't. As long as you know that the right answer to the Muslim creed is "There is not other God but God and Muhammad is his prophet" you can open your own ISIS subsidiary. Nobody is going to ask you for a membership card or royalties.

And that is the point that must get into our heads before we really start breeding these beyond the few brain amputated we already have.

 

 

[Merc14]

snip

Edited June 13, 2016 by Merc14

[Stubbly_Dooright]

1 hour ago, Ashotep said:

Sooo...Christians may not like gays but they aren't throwing them off buildings. 

Caught on Video=> “Gays Must Die” Says Islamic Speaker at Orlando Mosque

 

Naw, just beaten or stabbed to death.

   

I must note, it doesn't say in all the instances of the examples, but some show religion as an instigator. 

[Careful_perspective]

All I can do is groan at the fact that once again a huge movement will be brought forward to ban guns in this U.S. It's ironic to me that people can say he doesn't represent all of Islam (which I agree with) yet, at the same time, they lead him to represent all gun owners. 

[Lilly]

ISIS operates via the internet indoctrination of anyone who will kill large numbers of those they consider as being enemies of their sick ideology...period.  

Frankly, I no longer care what anyone else thinks about this subject. I've seen enough to know the reality and I'm now opting out of this discussion.

May God help us all if our leaders don't come to their senses soon.

[aztek]

4 minutes ago, Rinna said:

All I can do is groan at the fact that once again a huge movement will be brought forward to ban guns in this U.S.

it failed after sandy hook, it will fail now again. people are not buying this anti gun bs as much as they did before. sure foreigners still believe our guns make us commit crimes, but they are funny bunch, lol. 

Edited June 13, 2016 by aztek

[FLOMBIE]

28 minutes ago, susieice said:

Ok. I'll ignore the 911 call where he himself stated his intentions, and assume US gun laws were responsible for Paris and Brussels and everywhere else things like this have happened. Or will. And it will go on until someone starts playing this game with a full deck.

there is a difference between a terrorist organization acquiring (old) illegal guns from the black market and a single guy walking in a store and buying everything he needs. This is not a critique, it's just pointing out that it's not the same. Not even close. 

[aztek]

3 minutes ago, FLOMBIE said:

there is a difference between a terrorist organization acquiring (old) illegal guns from the black market and a single guy walking in a store and buying everything he needs. This is not a critique, it's just pointing out that it's not the same. Not even close. 

well he passed all background checks, and complied with all laws, and was legally allowed to have a gun.

btw it was pointed out more than once by our  uk posters that it is not hard at all to get any gun in uk. so your gun control ideas fall apart like a house of cards

Edited June 13, 2016 by aztek

[Stubbly_Dooright]

17 minutes ago, ChaosRose said:

It would be great if we didn't have to go after religion or guns, but just keep guns out of the hands of crazy people. I mean, if it's on record that someone has been making death threats, they shouldn't be able to go and buy a gun. Really, that should be a no-brainer. 

I think of Sandy Hook, ( in my state, and of the children, their teachers, (( I may have waited on one of the families finding a book for one of the young ones who perished  ) and I think of the fact the shooter had access, because his mom was an enthusiast and she took him to shooting fields and such.

I don't think we as a people, are really going deep to see the varying problems. Meanwhile, this still happens, and I think of the children, and the people, who are still dead.   

[FLOMBIE]

1 minute ago, aztek said:

well he passed all background checks, and complied with all laws, and was legally allowed to have a gun.

Okay? That has nothing to do with what I said. 

[ellapenella]

I have an issue with Hillary coming out and saying that "oh this is terrible and at the same time wanting to demolish the 2nd. amendment and she's wanting to bring in  500% more  non vetted ones from the ME, of course she does right? she's exempt from it all and protected with guns .Oh and let us not forget that the left say Christians are  the  homophobes and racist ,unbelievable... as they defend and want to bring in the very same people from the ME  who  are instructed to kill homosexuals,it's the truth. The gay community hopefully will wake up and know who their real enemy are. It's not the second amendment and it's not the Christians.

 

[Thorvir]

Just now, aztek said:

it failed after sandy hook, it will fail now again. people are not buying this anti gun bs as much as they did before.

The worst part of this is that regardless of how it was committed, or why it was committed, many innocents lost their lives.

The second worst thing is the lefties here and elsewhere using this to push their own agendas at the expense of the dead, and ignoring the actual problems of islamic extremism because they're cowards and/or intellectually lazy.  Their mental illness is almost as bad as the shooter's.  And congrats to you, you managed to turn this into another needless and irrelevant issue about guns.

"Never pass up a good tragedy", right?

So, why am I to blame, to be punished, as a gun owner, for something someone else did in the name of a death cult, and they happened to use a firearm as their tool of choice?  And why, now, when ISIS and their ilk of islamists are here killing us, should I be DISARMED and prevented from defending myself?  Why can't the blame be placed exactly where it needs to be placed, at the feet of radical islam and the islam death cult that turns a blind eye to it?  How many people need to be murdered before you cowards give up your crusade against inanimate objects and you realize what the hell is actually going on the world?

[Careful_perspective]

Just now, Stubbly_Dooright said:

I think of Sandy Hook, ( in my state, and of the children, their teachers, (( I may have waited on one of the families finding a book for one of the young ones who perished  ) and I think of the fact the shooter had access, because his mom was an enthusiast and she took him to shooting fields and such.

I don't think we as a people, are really going deep to see the varying problems. Meanwhile, this still happens, and I think of the children, and the people, who are still dead.   

I don't think the issue was his mother teaching him how to shoot guns, but rather ignoring his severe mental issues. If you are a violent person, and you have become obsessed with the idea of inflicting harm on a large group of people quickly, you will do it. You can lookup how to make a bomb on the Internet. You can drive your car into something, you can stab people. I know you are an advocate for mental health reform in this country Stub, and the Newtown shooter is a prime example of that. 

[aztek]

1 minute ago, FLOMBIE said:

Okay? That has nothing to do with what I said. 

sure it does, you are all about gun control, here it is.