Mass-casualty shooting at Orlando nightclub

[RavenHawk]

6 hours ago, Black Red Devil said:

But the clincher is this, "It also seems that you trust your government".   Are you really so obtuse to think that a legally elected Government in the western world is going to do a coup d'etat on it's people and become something of a dictatorship? 

Absolutely!  That is what government does.  Given the appropriate amount of time *ALL* government takes more and more freedoms from the people.  It can be fast (Like the Soviet Union, China, or Iran) or slow (like Europe and America).  Our founding fathers had the foresight to give us two ways to regain control over the government, by the ballot or the bullet.  Right now, we have a revolt of the ballot.  If the ruling elite had been doing their job, candidates like Trump wouldn’t be popular.

 

But even more interesting, are you really that convinced that, in the eventuality of such a ridiculous suggestion occurring, you and others are going to overthrow the dictatorship with your double barrel shotguns?

We have a hell of a lot more out there than double barrel shotguns.  Mateen has shown what one man is capable of with just a semi-automatic.  That is what the ruling elite fear and that is why all of this reverts to gun control.  It is under the guise of protecting the people.  The longer that the people can hold out, the likelihood that the military will begin to desert the elite and change sides.  The ruling elite must have the ability to crush revolt lighting fast.  The fewer guns out there the easier it will be.

 

Has it ever crossed your mind that your 2nd amendment on gun Rights was written in different times?  Unbelievable!

Has it ever crossed your mind that having been written in another time shows how timely it is for these times as well?!  Our Founding Fathers didn’t write a document for the times, they wrote it for human nature.  Times change, human nature does not.

 

[aztek]

3 minutes ago, Thorvir Hrothgaard said:

........... should I be DISARMED and prevented from defending myself?  

yes, that is the idea of the left.  you are potential murderer, that is what they see you as.

they could not care less if you able to protect yourself, you are more useful to them dead, to promote their agenda. than survive and show them they are wrong

Edited June 13, 2016 by aztek

[Deleted]

49 minutes ago, Thorvir Hrothgaard said:

Prejudice and hatred, islamic extremism, and a body of the political left that ignore these problems and allow them to flourish.

the rights agenda: use any misery to push their agenda and try to blame the left. Though history hs proven time over time that the right are the most violent

[FLOMBIE]

4 minutes ago, aztek said:

sure it does, you are all about gun control, here it is.

My post was about the huge difference, not about gun control. 

[aztek]

Just now, FLOMBIE said:

My post was about the huge difference, not about gun control. 

sure it was, all that easy things he did, like going to the store and getting everything he needed. you are basically saying it is guns fault, they are easy to get. 

[FLOMBIE]

1 minute ago, aztek said:

sure it was, all that easy things he did, like going to the store and getting everything he needed. you are basically saying it is guns fault, they are easy to get. 

Is there a difference between having to use illegal sources or just walking to a gun store or not? Obviously there is. That was the intention of my post. Calm down your biting reflex, mate.

[aztek]

 

10 minutes ago, FLOMBIE said:

Is there a difference between having to use illegal sources or just walking to a gun store or not? Obviously there is. 

depends to whom, to victims, absolutely none. 

Edited June 13, 2016 by aztek

[Space Commander Travis]

9 minutes ago, FLOMBIE said:

Is there a difference between having to use illegal sources or just walking to a gun store or not? Obviously there is. That was the intention of my post. Calm down your biting reflex, mate.

If you're planning on a mass shooting, I'd expect it would make no difference at all. You're not going to be too worried about being caught in possession of an illegal gun, are you. It's just a red herring.

Edited June 13, 2016 by Otto von Pickelhaube

[+and-then]

7 hours ago, TruthSeeker_ said:

Well, he was on the FBI threat radar at some point.

That should raise some serious questions as to why should he be able to legally buy an assault rifle then.

Fair enough.  But we, ostensibly, are still a nation of LAWS.  Until he actually breaks one (as he spectacularly did Sunday morning) he cannot be touched.  Think of an America where being accused is enough to get you incarcerated.  I'd rather bury a million than live in that way.  It always comes back to the fact that we are struggling with an enemy among us who uses our freedoms against us.  

[Bama13]

16 minutes ago, hellwyr said:

Though history hs proven time over time that the right are the most violent

yeah right. Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Pol ring any bells with you?

[FLOMBIE]

2 minutes ago, aztek said:

 

depends to whom? to victims, absolutely none. 

Even there is a difference. But that's not what we "discuss" here. You know what I mean. Don't misguide. 

 

There is a difference between going to a store and Illegal sources.

[FLOMBIE]

2 minutes ago, Otto von Pickelhaube said:

If you're planing on a mas shooting, I'd expect it would make no difference at all. You're not going to be too worried about being caught in possession of an illegal gun,b are you. It's just a red herring.

No, there really is. Not everybody can acquire guns from illegal sources. Everybody can walt into a store. 

[aztek]

1 minute ago, and then said:

.  Think of an America where being accused is enough to get you incarcerated. 

it is like that, have your p***ed off exgf call cops and say you beat her up, even if you never did that, you will be locked up, have order of protection, possibly lose your job, and may have issues with landlord, or building management, all before you even have a chance to prove you self innocent.

[Deleted]

5 minutes ago, Bama13 said:

yeah right. Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Pol ring any bells with you?

Our definition of liberal values aka left obviously differ. They may have used ideas from the left but obviously were fascists. And fascism is part of the right. Left per definition would be anti-fascism since the left ideology isn't fond of any kind of leadership or hierarchy.

 

edit: Also in Islamic countries there is a left movement and that movement does not promote terrorism. It is the right there which supports terrorism.

 

Edited June 13, 2016 by hellwyr

[+and-then]

58 minutes ago, Myles said:

I think I may get an AR15 or something similar.   If stricter laws are enacted, their value will skyrocket.  

Guns are a great investment.  

If you're serious then you'd be better off to do it this summer, prior to the Hildebeast potentially winning.  If she wins the price will steadily climb.  If she wins and the Dems take back either part of the Congress then they'll skyrocket.  They DOUBLED after Sandy Hook.

[Space Commander Travis]

2 minutes ago, FLOMBIE said:

Even there is a difference. But that's not what we "discuss" here. You know what I mean. Don't misguide. 

 

There is a difference between going to a store and Illegal sources.

 

1 minute ago, FLOMBIE said:

No, there really is. Not everybody can acquire guns from illegal sources. Everybody can walt into a store. 

Yes, there might well be a difference. They might well prefer to go through illegal channels since they're not regulated at all and no one's going to ask any questions. You don't think the underworld are going to run background checks on anyone who hands over enough money for an automatic rifle, are they? They're going to say "No, sorry, we're not going to sell to you, we think you might want to commit a crime with it"? 

[aztek]

4 minutes ago, FLOMBIE said:

 

There is a difference between going to a store and Illegal sources.

and what difference is that?

[FLOMBIE]

3 minutes ago, Otto von Pickelhaube said:

 

Yes, there might well be a difference. They might well prefer to go through illegal channels since they're not regulated at all and no one's going to ask any questions. You don't think the underworld are going to run background checks on anyone who hands over enough money for an automatic rifle, are they? They're going to say "No, sorry, we're not going to sell to you, we think you might want to commit a crime with it"? 

I don't know what you are going on about. What do you think does buying an illegal weapon look like? What do you think about how and where it's done? Most people do not know how to get one illegally. 

[+and-then]

54 minutes ago, supervike said:

I really don't understand the reluctance to accept that this was a terrorist killing, because of Radical Islam.

 

Most rational thinking people realize that Radical Islam does NOT equal Islam as a whole.  I am quite capable of knowing that a vast majority of Muslims are peace loving and want nothing to do with this madness.  But, I am also capable of knowing that a sliver of these people have been radicalized and are capable of horrendous acts.

 

Begs the question, why do they continue to make such noise?  Could it be they are focused on keeping things in limbo where a response is concerned?  As South Alabam said (I paraphrase)  we're not playing cowboys and jihadist YET, but it's coming.  Those who continue to spout this defense of Islam every time a Muslim kills are only setting the stage for potentially horrible vigilante violence in the future.  Just because they think the world should live with them in their illusion will not make it so when these kinds of attacks become "normal".  It will only take one or two in my little part of the world for things to become REALLY difficult and potentially dangerous for Muslims.  Is that justified?  There will be no consensus here but that won't matter to the Muslim where I live.  

[GoldenWolf]

1 hour ago, supervike said:

I really don't understand the reluctance to accept that this was a terrorist killing, because of Radical Islam.

 

Most rational thinking people realize that Radical Islam does NOT equal Islam as a whole.  I am quite capable of knowing that a vast majority of Muslims are peace loving and want nothing to do with this madness.  But, I am also capable of knowing that a sliver of these people have been radicalized and are capable of horrendous acts.

 

Rational people would realize their god and prophet are the most mad and fanatical people there is, 100 fold worse than Omar Mateen.

[RavenHawk]

42 minutes ago, Lilly said:

I can't believe that some still cling to the idea that this attack was not (at the very least influenced by) Radical Extremist Islam.

Not by Radical Extremist Islam, just simply Islam.  It just depends on how devout the individual is.  It can range from the Orthodox Salafist to the Moderate Apostate.

Get ready to be incorrect again: http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/orlando-nightclub-massacre/omar-mateen-u-s-suicide-bomber-tied-fort-pierce-florida-n590846

  Sure, part of Mr Mateen's motivation was most certainly his hatred of gays, but this goes farther than just a hate crime and the vast majority of us know it.

His father stated that seeing two men kiss set him off.  And you travel two hours to find some gays to shoot?  I don’t buy that.  I suspect that his position in security made him privy to information related to possible targets and “The Pulse” came up as a prime.

 

They came for the gays and nobody did anything…Je suis Pulse

 

[Deleted]

6 minutes ago, aztek said:

lol, no you were not,  you linked the page about permits and licenses. they are different in every state, yet all dealers require background check, in ALL states

You only linked the federal law. But states can pass additional laws. I was saying ONLY a background check is necessary to purchase a gun in Texas. I didn't say only Texas conducts background checks.

"Some states and localities require that a person obtain a license or permit in order to purchase or possess firearms." (wiki) which means some states require more than just a background check.

Edited June 13, 2016 by hellwyr

[aztek]

1 minute ago, hellwyr said:

You only linked the federal law. But states can pass additional laws. I was saying ONLY a background check is necessary in Texas. I didn't say only Texas conducts background checks.

 

so what?  you show again how clueless you are, i have to have permit for both rifles and pistols, yet all i have to do to buy a gun is to pass a NIBC at the store, it is up to me to register it and comply with local laws, not the store's.

[Space Commander Travis]

29 minutes ago, FLOMBIE said:

I don't know what you are going on about. What do you think does buying an illegal weapon look like? What do you think about how and where it's done? Most people do not know how to get one illegally. 

yes, it's done illegally, so that, for instance, if someone wants to do something illegal with it, that'd be the logical thing to do. (unless it's a FBI Sting operation, of course.) if you're a nutcase who wants to plan a mass murder, you'd probably have done some research to find out how to do it. In fact, it's probably a very competitive market.

[Deleted]

2 minutes ago, aztek said:

so what?  you show again how clueless you are, i have to have permit for both rifles and pistols, yet all i have to do to buy a gun is to pass a NIBC at the store, it is up to me to register it and comply with local laws, not the store's.

No you don't have to have a permit for a handgun. If you have a permit you don't need to pass a background check. However, if you don't posses a license or permit you must pass a background check. The dealer and buyer also must fill some documents.

"If you have a License to Carry a Handgun (LCH), you can show that, and the dealer will not need to conduct the background check. You will need to have your license with you and be able to produce it."

http://www.wikihow.com/Buy-a-Firearm-in-Texas