Mass-casualty shooting at Orlando nightclub

[questionmark]

4 minutes ago, Ellapennella said:

This man Tim Kennedy is involved with  anti terrorism. In this video he talks  a bit about more targets. He warns in this video that it's about to get worse.

 

he is? http://mmajunkie.com/2016/01/ufc-middleweight-tim-kennedy-not-working-with-fbi-on-recent-isis-threat

 

[Myles]

50 minutes ago, OverSword said:

His hostility towards a bunch of people that had done nothing to him leads me to wonder what is the motivation?  My theory is he was deeply closeted and guilty feeling homosexual with huge amounts of anger resulting from his suppression.  In targeting those people he was essentially targeting himself as he knew he would be killed.  And sure there is no proof but this guy isn't some Jihadist.  He's a nut. 

While a valid theory, I'd still say it's low percentage.  

More probable is that he was going to kill a bunch of people and go down in a ball of flames so he chose a gay nightclub because he felt they were some of the worst the East has to offer. 

 

[RavenHawk]

2 minutes ago, DingoLingo said:

Will quietly disagree with that statement, as I do everytime someone says it

And you certainly may quietly disagree as you can be quietly wrong.  All I need to do is bring up Chicago.  You see, you have to show that all gun free zones/strict gun law municipalities saves lives.  All I need to do is show just one that doesn’t.  There are many more than Chicago, it’s just my pick.

[FLOMBIE]

Just now, RavenHawk said:

And you certainly may quietly disagree as you can be quietly wrong.  All I need to do is bring up Chicago.  You see, you have to show that all gun free zones/strict gun law municipalities saves lives.  All I need to do is show just one that doesn’t.  There are many more than Chicago, it’s just my pick.

Then you must also acknowledge that most of the illegal guns in Chicago were legally sold. You guys need one regualtion for the entire country. Insular laws naturally worsen this problem. 

[aztek]

regulation to keeps guns away from people that already have guns, and do not give a damn about regulations, great idea,  no wounder it does not work.,

[DingoLingo]

22 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

 

heh well I can bring up Australia and New Zealand,

it works here.. quite well..

[Harte]

2 hours ago, Leonardo said:

There are signs the theory holds merit. The repressive environment (as a young man in Islam he was expected to grow up hetero, have a wife and kids, etc),

I really don't know much about what's been distributed concerning this guy, but I will say that the above environment argument can be equally applied to the fact that he was expected to grow up thinking gays deserve to die.

Since it applies pretty much the same both ways, it can't be used to make or even strengthen either case.

2 hours ago, Leonardo said:

his abusive behaviour towards his first spouse (I haven't heard if he was abusive towards his second),

I don't see this an an indicator of closeted homosexual self-hatred.

2 hours ago, Leonardo said:

his father reporting how he went ballistic when he saw two men kissing, that he deliberately chose a high-profile "gay" target (by that, I mean high profile among the gay community - not high-profile in the comprehensive sense.)

While not conclusive, these are signs that he perhaps had underlying issues with his own sexuality.

Or the other side of the environmental argument I mentioned earlier.

Maybe the guy was a self-loathing homosexual nutcase as has been described.  Like I said, I'm not yet well informed on that.

But according to reports, we do know the guy was Muslim, and under FBI watch for a period because of his associates, and had traveled to the Middle East somewhat recently in the past.

I wouldn't jump into the closeted homosexual position yet, in other words.

Harte

 

 

[RavenHawk]

4 minutes ago, DingoLingo said:

heh well I can bring up Australia and New Zealand,

it works here.. quite well..

I wonder?  Would you describe OZ and Middle Earth as Social Democracies?

[Harte]

Middle Earth was more of a fiefdom, I think.

Started out all friendly as hell toward the LGBT community, but it got worse and worse and finally they all packed up and went West.

Harte

[Professor Buzzkill]

14 minutes ago, DingoLingo said:

heh well I can bring up Australia and New Zealand,

it works here.. quite well..

Well mate, I live across the ditch from you and I have a couple of semi auto rifles. Middle earth requires a license, but you can buy whatever rifle you want after that, with a maximum magazine size of 7 rounds.

I'm not sure its the guns fault

[Baz Dane]

- "Mateen had even come to the attention of authorities, with the FBI interviewing him in two terror-related cases in recent years."

- "... Mateen -- who would go on to call 911 and pledge allegiance to ISIS during his rampage."

http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/13/us/orlando-shooter-omar-mateen/index.html

 

- "The Orland gay club gunman's father has well-known anti-American views and is an ideological supporter of the Afghan Taliban. A new message posted by the father on Facebook early Monday morning also makes it clear he could have passed anti-homosexual views onto his son."

- "He then adds: "God will punish those involved in homosexuality,"

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/orlando-shooting-omar-mateen-father-seddique-mateen-taliban-god-punish-gays/

 

- "FBI Director James B. Comey said that during his 911 calls, Mateen said he was a supporter of the Islamic State."

- "Mateen also mentioned the 2013 Boston bombing during his calls."

- "Comey said that during the calls, Mateen also mentioned Moner Mohammad Abusalha, a fellow Floridian who had traveled to Syria to fight with Jabhat al-Nusra, the al-Qaeda affiliate in Syria."

- "Comey also revealed that in "inflammatory and contradictory" comments to co-workers in 2013, Mateen had claimed to be a member of Hezbollah, the Shiite militia based in Lebanon."

- "Relatives have given mixed reports about the level of Mateen's religiosity, with some suggesting he preferred working out to studying religion. He attended the Islamic Center of Fort Pierce, though he is said to have rarely spoken. His Afghan father has filmed videos that appeared to offer support for the Taliban, a fundamentalist movement that also opposes the Islamic State, though his messages also were sometimes incoherent."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/06/13/omar-mateen-may-not-have-understood-the-difference-between-isis-al-qaeda-and-hezbollah/

 

- "He was scary in a concerning way," he said. "And it wasn't at times. It was all the time. He had anger management issues. Something would set him off, but the things that would set him off were always women, race or religion. [Those were] his button pushers."

- "Mateen "always referred to every other race, religion, gender in a derogatory way," Gilroy added. "He did not like black people at all. That was mentioned once or twice, but more so was women. He did not like women at all. He did like women in a sexual way, but he did not respect them."

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/orlando-nightclub-massacre/terror-hate-what-motivated-orlando-nightclub-shooter-n590496

 

I'm not sure why a bunch of people are trying to claim Mateen was gay. I see nothing to support it, and plenty to contradict that claim.

I also see that it's obvious that "Radical Islam" ... or whatever term one wants to use ... is also an element to this tragedy.

[Podo]

I'm just sad that fifty people died. Can't we all just be sad that fifty people died?

[RavenHawk]

3 minutes ago, FLOMBIE said:

Then you must also acknowledge that most of the illegal guns in Chicago were legally sold.

If it’s illegal, it’s illegal.  I didn’t know you could launder guns??  But sure, I’ll acknowledge that as I’ll also acknowledge that it’s non-sequitur.  It really doesn’t matter how a gun is acquired.  It is the intention that matters.  Most illegal guns on the street will be used in the commission of a crime, not mass killing.  Then you have to consider the will of the criminal and how many bullets he has?  I’m sure that there is a stat that states that for every gun used in the commission of a crime that some number more than 2 are not.

You guys need one regualtion for the entire country. Insular laws naturally worsen this problem. 

I will agree with that to a limited point.  But instead of setting up restrictions that threaten people’s rights.  Put the responsibility back on the people.  This won’t stop all killings but nothing will.  When you include people in their own security, that sense of responsibility comes out.  Instead of creating a list of gun owners that can be used against the law abiding citizens, just have gun safety classes that end up in issuing a gun license like driving a car.  Everyone that wants a gun license must go through an annual refresher course (paid time off from work) that includes weapon qual.  Additional practice would be on the individual’s time.  Very much like the military does, but you don’t have to own a gun, just be familiar with them and know how to respect them.  Plus, the government won’t know who has the guns and doesn’t need to know.

[Paranormal Panther]

8 hours ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

I keep having a problem remembering his name, so thank you on that, but he comes up in my mind within these discussions. Tim McVeigh an Atheist? He was born an Atheist? Not from where I have gotten his info. 

It says here, he was Agnostic.

It also says here he was an Agnostic.

This is one of some sites that report him being raised a Roman Catholic.

 

I don't know for sure. He was agnostic or atheist, but he was not a believer. His family was Catholic, though. Of course, that was his inherited belief system.

[RavenHawk]

22 minutes ago, Podo said:

I'm just sad that fifty people died. Can't we all just be sad that fifty people died

Yes, be sad but the hard cold fact is that they won’t be the last.  And until we have people in leadership positions that are not timid to take action, more will be joining them.  I’m far sadder for them.

[Paranormal Panther]

15 hours ago, Otto von Pickelhaube said:

 And another thing: "the FBI had taken in the gunman for interview three times, but let him go each time"? You can see how conspiracy theories take root, can't you. 

You ain't just whistling "Dixie". Check out the security firm for which he worked!

[Golden Duck]

2 hours ago, questionmark said:

not convinced? I have another one https://www.psychologytoday.com/files/u47/Henry_et_al.pdf

In fact, since Freud it has been a well established fact that the worst homophobes are latent homosexuals.

Was Mateen part of any similar study.  I've never seen three-and-a-half rolled on a six-sided die.

Since it was Latino Night at Pulse - maybe he hated Mexicans.

It seems most plausible that he was a human that needed to be needed, and found ISIS marketing gave him a sense of purpose.

[Wendigo Wangs]

4 hours ago, questionmark said:

Well, it is demonstrated that suppressed homosexuals are among the most dangerous people on the planet. So, I wonder what the agenda was...

1 minute ago, Mangoze said:

Was Mateen part of any similar study.  I've never seen three-and-a-half rolled on a six-sided die.

Since it was Latino Night at Pulse - maybe he hated Mexicans.

It seems most plausible that he was a human that needed to be needed, and found ISIS marketing gave him a sense of purpose.

'He always talked of killing people': Former co-worker of Orlando terrorist says he warned his security firm bosses he was a deranged homophobe but they refused to fire him because he was Muslim

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3638935/He-talked-killing-people-Former-worker-Orlando-terrorist-says-deranged-homophobic-toxic-racist-hated-women-loved-violence.html#ixzz4BVDmrHVp
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Edited June 13, 2016 by We are lizard people
sorry for the quotes from the board-users. I still don't like this new format

[+and-then]

2 hours ago, TruthSeeker_ said:

You must understand that this is a different kind of terrorism than 9/11. This isn't an organization meticulously plotting and operating on U.S. soil. Mateen probably had very loose ties with jihadists on the internet, he's basically a lone-wolf that took it upon himself to murder homosexuals while ''pledging allegance'' to ISIS to give his cause a higher purpose. It's just convenient for ISIS to claim responsability.

You're making as great an assumption as you claim of others.  The evidence reported by FBI directory Comey (probably the ONLY real professional on Obama's staff) shows that he made quite clear where his loyalties lay.  

[Paranormal Panther]

5 hours ago, bubblykiss said:

And Teddy sat himself apart from his society, living in his little shack in the woods. He held a full Ph.D but gave up on society/humanity. 

He also took part in mind control experiments when he was a college student! He wasn't the only notorious killer with that kind of background.

[Thanato]

2 minutes ago, and then said:

You're making as great an assumption as you claim of others.  The evidence reported by FBI directory Comey (probably the ONLY real professional on Obama's staff) shows that he made quite clear where his loyalties lay.  

Yes... he said he pledges allegiance to DAESH. However that could of been an after thought. So far all the evidence (reported by BBC) points that this was a Homophobic Attack rather then an Islamic fundamentalist attack. 

[Harte]

How many people in the nightclub, other than the shooter, were armed?

As I recall, something like this was tried in Texas.

Harte

[+and-then]

4 minutes ago, shadowhive said:

I dunno. I think saying you'd not care if a million people died as along as you kept guns sounds far more disgusting from where I'm sitting.

That's your prerogative.  There are still a lot of people in this country that will willingly die to remain free.  If that isn't as important from your perspective then that's fine by me, it is your life.

[FLOMBIE]

I never said you wanted. I asked. Do you see the difference? 

[+and-then]

Just now, Harte said:

How many people in the nightclub, other than the shooter, were armed?

As I recall, something like this was tried in Texas.

Harte

I haven't seen any reports on that.  I guess if anyone else returned fire then autopsies might reveal that.  I don't know for a fact but if the place served alcohol it was probably not allowed to conceal carry - for good reasons.