Mass-casualty shooting at Orlando nightclub

[Thanato]

3 minutes ago, seeder said:

 

sure, but then why.....did he call the cops to make the isis connection?

That is the only connection, that I have been able to get from reading the news. That is the only connection to Fundamentalist Islam. Outside of course the FBI interviewing him a few years ago. If you are able to find, in the released information, that he was an DAESH terrorist, other then the call pledging allegiance to the call to 911. Which to me seems more like an after thought.

[Thorvir]

16 minutes ago, pallidin said:

You know, I wonder what might be a set of workable, realistic interventions to get rid of this type scum.

The power of the Western military mobilized to it's full extent and used as the unstoppable bludgeoning force that it is.

[Thorvir]

13 minutes ago, Thanato said:

So if it turns out he was a regular at the club and had a profile on a gay dating app, including conversing with someone for over a year... can we stop calling this Islamic terrorism?

If it quacks like a duck...

[GoldenWolf]

16 minutes ago, Thorvir Hrothgaard said:

I own firearms.  I don't breed pit bulls.  I own cats.  And I don't make them as malicious as possible.  So you're idiotic blanket statement is as intolerant and uninformed as they come here.  If what you say about where you live is true, then you should move out to a different place.  Try a foreign country where you don't have the right to defend yourself.  I'm sure it'll be a paradise for you.

I was talking about the city where I live.  And I would move if I had the the funds, I never wanted to move here to begin with.  You really shouldn't judge, have you ever been here?

Where I live, it is the Timothy McVeigh and Omar Mateen types, not people who use guns for self defense (which I would be fine with).

Edited June 14, 2016 by Mystic Crusader

[shadowhive]

19 minutes ago, Thorvir Hrothgaard said:

 

Because having the right to defend one's life should be extremely easy to understand.

And the shooter didn't have a "military grade" firearm.  Do some research before knee-jerk claims.

But keep pretending this is about guns, keep blaming inanimate objects.  It's as stupid of a thing as I've ever read here and anywhere else.  The murderer was a monster, he killed out of hatred and in the name of a death cult. That's that.

Perhaps. But then I lived my whole life without feeling the need to have a weapon to defend myself. But then I've never had to be afraid of going to school, to the movies or anywhere else without being shot.

One of the firearms the gunman used is a Sig Sauer MCX. This site states this about this particular weapon:

The modular SIG Sauer MCX line was designed in the U.S. after the Department of Defense asked for a compact, quiet rifle able to engage targets out to 300 meters.

So ithere you go. His weapon was expressly made for the military, which I think classifies it very much as a military grade weapon.

I agree this was done by a murderer, no question there. But a murderer with access to a military weapon, designed to kill en masse. If he didn;t have access to that weapon he'd not have been able to kill that many people. So yes, the 'inanimate object' does matter because it made him a more efficient killing machine.

 

But I'll largely leave it at that and bow out (at least for now, it's 2:38 am and the past few days of this has utterly exhausted me)

Edited June 14, 2016 by shadowhive

[Thanato]

8 minutes ago, Thorvir Hrothgaard said:

If it quacks like a duck...

It could be a duck call. 

Just because something looks one way, does not mean it is. 

But lets take your logic, what are we going to do against Fundamentalist Christians?

[FLOMBIE]

24 minutes ago, Michelle said:

Killings by guns have also decreased in the US without more gun controls.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/12/03/weve-had-a-massive-decline-in-gun-violence-in-the-united-states-heres-why/

I think you have more gun control. 

[Michelle]

1 minute ago, FLOMBIE said:

I think you have more gun control. 

Not quite. Tennessee has gotten more lenient rebelling against the federal government trying to push for harsher restrictions. Each state regulates their own gun laws.

[FLOMBIE]

Just now, Michelle said:

Not quite. Tennessee has gotten more lenient rebelling against the federal government trying to push for harsher restrictions. Each state regulates their own gun laws.

Indeed, yes. Shouldn't that mean you have to evaluate each state on its own, and also take into consideration how easy it is to smuggle guns around the country?

[Jack Skellington]

32 minutes ago, Thanato said:

So if it turns out he was a regular at the club and had a profile on a gay dating app, including conversing with someone for over a year... can we stop calling this Islamic terrorism?

If it turns out he was also a repressed, self loathing closeted homosexual, it wouldn't make him any less muslim.

Islam goes beyond merely disapproving of homosexuality. Sharia teaches that homosexuality is a vile form of fornication, punishable by death.

[FLOMBIE]

2 minutes ago, Michelle said:

Not quite. Tennessee has gotten more lenient rebelling against the federal government trying to push for harsher restrictions. Each state regulates their own gun laws.

Here is an article about how gun related deaths have risen in Tennessee.

[Jack Skellington]

16 minutes ago, shadowhive said:

Perhaps. But then I lived my whole life without feeling the need to have a weapon to defend myself. But then I've never had to be afraid of going to school, to the movies or anywhere else without being shot.

One of the firearms the gunman used is a Sig Sauer MCX. This site states this about this particular weapon:

The modular SIG Sauer MCX line was designed in the U.S. after the Department of Defense asked for a compact, quiet rifle able to engage targets out to 300 meters.

So ithere you go. His weapon was expressly made for the military, which I think classifies it very much as a military grade weapon.

I agree this was done by a murderer, no question there. But a murderer with access to a military weapon, designed to kill en masse. If he didn;t have access to that weapon he'd not have been able to kill that many people. So yes, the 'inanimate object' does matter because it made him a more efficient killing machine.

 

But I'll largely leave it at that and bow out (at least for now, it's 2:38 am and the past few days of this has utterly exhausted me)

Have you advocated for banning rice cookers?  Cell phones?

The home-grown radicalized Islamic terrorist Boston Bombers didn't have 'military grade weapons.' 

They had Wal-Mart grade cooking utensils and school back packs.

[Michelle]

1 minute ago, FLOMBIE said:

Indeed, yes. Shouldn't that mean you have to evaluate each state on its own, and also take into consideration how easy it is to smuggle guns around the country?

The highest gun crime rates in the US are from areas that banned guns. That is a fact. It is simple to smuggle guns anywhere in the US as long as you don't get stopped for some stupid traffic violation.

[+susieice]

28 minutes ago, Thanato said:

That is the only connection, that I have been able to get from reading the news. That is the only connection to Fundamentalist Islam. Outside of course the FBI interviewing him a few years ago. If you are able to find, in the released information, that he was an DAESH terrorist, other then the call pledging allegiance to the call to 911. Which to me seems more like an after thought.

Have you read the links in this thread or looked into who he was known to have associated with in the past?

[pallidin]

I don't know how "gun control" could even work in cases like the Orlando massacre.

One can purchase a gun, even a serious long gun, in nearly every large city in the U.S. via the "black market" if one is uotherwise not permitted. Gangs do it all the time.

All it takes is money and "connections", regardless of if you are a felon or not.

 

 

[FLOMBIE]

Just now, Michelle said:

The highest gun crime rates in the US are from areas that banned guns. That is a fact. It is simple to smuggle guns anywhere in the US as long as you don't get stopped for some stupid traffic violation.

Yes, sure. That is what I am talking about. Insular las are the worst you can do with these types of regulations. Just look at Chicago and where the illegal guns come from. 

[FLOMBIE]

4 minutes ago, pallidin said:

I don't know how "gun control" could even work in cases like the Orlando massacre.

One can purchase a gun, even a serious long gun, in nearly every large city in the U.S. via the "black market" if one is uotherwise not permitted. Gangs do it all the time.

All it takes is money and "connections", regardless of if you are a felon or not.

 

 

Do you have those connections? You always make it seem like it's the easiest thing on this planet. Gangs do it a lot. Gangs. Professional criminals. 

I also highly doubt that anyone in Germany being under the radar of the authorites as a potential terrorist threat would have been issued a permit for obtaining a firearm. 

Edited June 14, 2016 by FLOMBIE

[Thanato]

11 minutes ago, Jack Skellington said:

If it turns out he was also a repressed, self loathing closeted homosexual, it wouldn't make him any less muslim.

Islam goes beyond merely disapproving of homosexuality. Sharia teaches that homosexuality is a vile form of fornication, punishable by death.

And... Christianity teaches what?

[+susieice]

If you got the money, you'll find a connection.

[FLOMBIE]

Just now, susieice said:

If you got the money, you'll find a connection.

How would you do it?

[pallidin]

1 minute ago, FLOMBIE said:

Do you have those connections? You always make it seem like it's the easiest thing on this planet. 

Just like illegal drugs... if you have the money and don't present yourself as police or a fed.

Our world spins around illegal activities such as drugs and illicit arms acquisitions (among other things of course)

[+susieice]

Just now, FLOMBIE said:

How would you do it?

Probably wouldn't take more than a couple phone calls. All you need is a pal that connect you to someone to someone else until you're in. Just show them the money.

[Only_]

1 hour ago, and then said:

I agree that it doesn't yet seem he is tied to some planner or funding source, yet.  Possibly he is a true lone wolf type.  If he is then he just set the gold standard for others to emulate.  Ultimately he is a terrorist by definition and he claimed that organization as his cause.

He's a terrorist for sure. Just not convinced he's an Islamic one. Claiming the name of ISIS seems to be the flavour of the day for deluded invididuals commiting atrocious acts and hoping to go down in history. Besides, people around him described him as a non-practicing guy.

Edited June 14, 2016 by TruthSeeker_

[FLOMBIE]

Just now, pallidin said:

Just like illegal drugs... if you have the money and don't present yourself as police or a fed.

Our world spins around illegal activities such as drugs and illicit arms acquisitions (among other things of course)

No, tell me how you would do it. Drug dealers do not have to sell guns. You can buy weed from the guy you met at the gym. But will he sell you a gun?

[Likely Guy]

a ) It was a hate crime against the gay community. He may have been "repressed".

b ) He was an 'Islamic terrorist'. Though religion doesn't seem to have been a prime motivator.

c ) Guns are too easy to access in the U.S. especially for someone that has been on a watch list. Twice.

d) All of the above.

Thoughts?